Changes I'd like to see to Guardian Fighter.

grimah · September 2017

There's a bunch of balancing things I'd like to see to GF but these would be my most desired ones:

1. Stop Aggravating strike from sliding the character forward when there is no target/untargetable enemy. It's probably the thing that got me killed the most when I was more squishie/less geared as the animation can not be cancelled.

2. Make Cleave's radius the same as Swordmaster so the tree would actually be desirable!

I'd also like to see changes to Tactician capstone to something else that is less situational. Something like when party members hit marked targets they get 2% ap per second for 5 seconds, stacking 3 times.

Protector tree to make it more awesome. The capstone could also make block work for party member at 50% effectiveness within 10 yards. The feat Brawling Warrior could also make Knight's Valor also increase player's damage.

cilginordek · September 2017

I think they should nerf shield uptime, then all the stuff that buffs it from protector tree would be more viable.

grimah said:

1. Stop Aggravating strike from sliding the character forward when there is no target/untargetable enemy. It's probably the thing that got me killed the most when I was more squishie/less geared as the animation can not be cancelled.

This is funny when fighting Ras Nsi, it either gets me killed, or makes me completely avoid the flaming sword attack. I noticed that pressing mouse button about the time attack animation ends instead of holding it makes you go forward less often.

Either way ive been using shield slam instead because it keeps me in place, so its not much of an issue. A little bit less damage, threat and AP doesn't make or break anything. Althought would be nice if they buffed shield slams damage so that its a less one sided choice between shield slam and aggrevating strike.

mitty · September 2017

cilginordek said:
would be nice if they buffed shield slams damage

It might be more agreeable to ask for Shield Bash to simply have a higher threat modifier instead of more damage; perhaps that would preserve the distinction between it and Aggravating Strike? Of course, if each ability had similar threat, the damage of both abilities is so minimal I'm not sure it would ever be worth using Aggravating Strike?

rjc9000 · September 2017

cilginordek said:
I think they should nerf shield uptime, then all the stuff that buffs it from protector tree would be more viable.

This is funny when fighting Ras Nsi, it either gets me killed, or makes me completely avoid the flaming sword attack. I noticed that pressing mouse button about the time attack animation ends instead of holding it makes you go forward less often.

Either way ive been using shield slam instead because it keeps me in place, so its not much of an issue. A little bit less damage, threat and AP doesn't make or break anything. Althought would be nice if they buffed shield slams damage so that its a less one sided choice between shield slam and aggrevating strike.

The 3rd boss of T9G loses his collision detection when he prepares his overhead attack (flaming sword). I honestly think that what the devs did was that they simply copied the attack off the smaller sneks (the smaller snake guys have a similar looking overhead, but it applies a Terrifying Impact effect), pasted it to the 3rd T9G boss, then forgot to resize the hitbox on that particular attack.

(If any of the devs are lurking here and read this, I am curious to know if it's intentional)

So, if you see it coming, you have several options, like Tony's idea (I forgot Shield Slam is a thing), simply just backing up to make sure the attack doesn't cross you up, or praying to the RNG Goddess that she doesn't score a lucky crit on you.

mitty#8178 said:

cilginordek said:
would be nice if they buffed shield slams damage
It might be more agreeable to ask for Shield Bash to simply have a higher threat modifier instead of more damage; perhaps that would preserve the distinction between it and Aggravating Strike? Of course, if each ability had similar threat, the damage of both abilities is so minimal I'm not sure it would ever be worth using Aggravating Strike?

Shield Slam, from what I can analyze, purposely has awful aggro gain/no aggro bonus. Shield Slam gives you 5% of your Stamina back when you land it. 5% of Stamina is nothing, so from what I'm guessing, its purpose is not raw damage, but to keep up your enough stamina while anticipating a big hit.

Aggravating Strike can hit multiple targets (in a small cone), so it's not bad versus mobs.

hypervoreian · September 2017

I would like a lot of changes to the Gf class,for the better ofcourse.

I need to clarify this,there are some threads running that imply devs are looking to rebalance Gf class.this is not correct.

The only thing we have atm,is a post by a dev,in the PVP FORUM,about BURST in PVP.
Nothing else.
(Burst in pvp=Bull charge,KC)

to the topic:

"1. Stop Aggravating strike from sliding the character forward when there is no target/untargetable enemy. It's probably the thing that got me killed the most when I was more squishie/less geared as the animation can not be cancelled."

+1

"2. Make Cleave's radius the same as Swordmaster so the tree would actually be desirable!"

+1

As for myself,i would like to see a buff to Tide Of Iron,adding a utility to it,tied to a feat.Simply put,the animation is excellent is a waste none to use it

Pin Down needs a buff. 0.3 secs? really?? it is OP atm1 :P

The temp hp of GF need a buff.They are all designed pre 70 level cap and the benefits are miniscule.

It is kinda unfair,OP tanks with out investment in DR just by pushing buttons and investing in power and rec.Giving him huge amounts of temp hp.I do not ask to have OPs broken temp hp ,but more than out current pitifull situation.

Crushing Shield feat: Change to stamina instead of damage.

Menacing Impact: 5 points for 5 feet....great.i think it needs to go double. 10 feet.

Armor of Bahamut: worthless at current content.If a Gf takes damage with his shield down it is probably KO.Feat needs a rework.

Terrifying Impact daily: current Aoe is too small.Worthless in pve

Knight challenge:take the cheese away,rework the encounter completely.It is the sole reason the Humsters attack en masse Gf class.

Frontline Surge:Increase Aoe

LineBreaker Assault:Increase CC duration.unnoticable atm

Flourish....oh my god flourish..

"stab them with blinding speed".Atm the most time consuming skill in NW universe."Blinding speed" yeah right...
Shorten the animation

Stunning Flourish : "stuns for 1 sec at last hit' .pre tenacity,pre mitigated ....5 points for 1 sec....As for its other bonus...5%....really.it should be 20% full feated at least.

theguiido · September 2017

Yeah I can easily name 11 feats that are useless and outdated. Thats just off the top of my head. I really am not entirely alright with most of them if you ask me.

And no one uses KC in PvP, it's a PvE move.

If the GF ever gets reworked this is the list I want @balanced#2849 @mimicking#6533 to see. I don't expect all of them to be changed, but hopefully this gives insight into some of the feats that really need work.

Heroic Feats

Potent Challenge: Serves no purpose. Your mark and hitting a marked target builds twice as much Threat, and you can use a Dread Warrior as well. If that isn't enough, just put on Enhanced mark if you truly are trying to pull agro. This feat should be replaced with something completely new.

Replacement Feat: Vitality: Gain 5/10/15% of your Max Hit Points as Temporary Hit Points when damaged by an enemy. (30 second cooldown)

Grit: Though fixed and is "decent" when using Crushing Surge, it does not last long at all, nor is the cooldown on it worth using at all. An enemy or player has to hit you ONCE for it to go away. Vitality would become the upgraded version and better version of this, but Grit it's self would be replaced with a totally new feat.

Replacement Feat: Wrath: Each point of Strength now increases damage bonus given by Strength by .33/.66/1%.

Pin Down: Unheard of ever used in PvE, and utterly useless in PvP. It needs to be buffed slightly. Making the prone last too long will make it too powerful, and not changing it at all will keep players options steered away and limited into the obvious "winning feats". The point is to create diversity and competition in the feats so that players have more options to choose from instead a cookie cutter sort of universally known feats to choose from that have always been the way to go.

Pin Down Rework: The Prone duration of your powers are increased by .5/1/1.25 seconds.

Paragon Feats IV/SM

Conquerer

Take Measure: As with the Grit situation, it is very bad. It doesn't provide the Guardian with much purpose or even utility. It simply has no use. To ensure it has a purpose and to ensure it has a use and can pay off, it has also like Grit been totally redone.

Replacement Feat: Berserk: When struck by a foe you have a chance to lash out, your Encounter and Atwill damage are briefly increased by 1/2/3/4/5% for 8 Seconds. (10 Second cooldown)

Reinforced Surge: Has no use. Literally. I don't know anyone, myself included who uses Frontline Surge, it does no damage, and is not used in PvE nor PvP. Pretty much a joke. Unlink this from Frontline Surge completely for the Guardian Fighter. Or just delete Frontline Surge, and delete it and replace it with something better.

Replacement Feat: Ferocity: Your critical chance is reduced by 10%, but your Combat Advantage Damage is increased by 10%.

Crushing Shield: Another obvious one. It is avoided on purpose to us. This Feat would be replaced with a redesigned feat. Shield Slam is mainly used in emergency situations to mitigate heavy blows and to stall the situation by temporarily regaining stamina.

Replacement Feat: Devastating Tide: Tide of Iron now debuff's enemies mitigation to your Encounter and Atwill powers by 10%. Additionally, Shield slam now gives you 10% additional stamina when hit successfully on an enemy.

Cruel Cut Style: Nothing much needs to be said. Every GF knows Cleave is not good at all. Completely redo this feat to something players will actually enjoy.

Replacement Feat: Impending Surge: Crushing Surge deals 3/6/9/12/15% more damage as your targets Hit Points diminish.

Staggering Challenge: I really don't like the feat. I don't like how it is linked to 2 powers. It was making Griffons Wrath too OP in PvE in some cases with certain team comps, and annoying to fight against in PvP especially when you get focused and 1, 2, 3, (CC stacks don't work) and you're dead!

Replacement Feat: Calamity: Anvil of Doom now deals 4/8/12/16/20% more damage to targets below half health.

Menacing Impact: A very useless feat. This feat offers nothing to any Guardian looking to do damage. Or enjoy slotting Villain's Menace as a Daily. This new feat will offer a huge reward for players looking to do some serious damage that is very worth it without needing to incorporate multiple Dailies into the equation of 1 feat.

Replacement Feat: Unforgiving Menace: While Villains Menace is active, all nearby foes affected by the ground slam are marked, additionally the additional damage dealt during your temporary ferver is increased by 2/4/6/8/10% depending on how many foes are affected by your initial ground slam up to a maximum of 10%. As damage is taken during this time your Stamina will begin to fade away depending on how many people are striking you at once. Stamina loss increase 2/4/6/8/10%. Up to a maximum of 10% (5 enemies).

Now, to counter the debate of shield uptime, i'd want the general shield cost to be upped from the current -10% back up to -20% or increase it to 25% to compensate for the DPS increase and so pressuring the Guardian is rewarding.

Protector

Protector in general is an extremely outdated Paragon path, even more so than the other 2 Paragon paths. I usually see people go Conquerer, or Tactician. Protector back in the day was very prominent, especially when mitigating serious damage actually mattered. After explaining each feat, I will show you why this tree is easily by far the worst of them all, and redesign the feats to make them actually on par with a Paladin. Or in some way make them better than what they currently are by A LOT.

Armor of Bahamut: Back in the day's before Stamina regeneration from mounts, Elven, Boons, and Companions literally made you have to care about stamina, this was used to help a GF during time's where they wanted to Fray and gain some stamina regen. It helped on bosses or large crowds of mobs that would be attracted to the GF. Now, this feat serves no purpose. With the addition of so much ways to get stamina now, your shield should never be below 30%. This feat is outdated and needs to be changed to something that can actually help a Guardian Fighter, and the fighter's allies be protected.

Replacement Feat: Reinforce: When you take damage you have a chance to gain Reinforce. Reinforce increases your outgoing Damage Reduction by 3/6/9/12/15%. Reinforce lasts 10 seconds.

Iron Focus: The recent change on this only made it less desirable to even slot. Yet another power linked to a feat, and that really isn't even that good. No one uses Ferocious Reaction in PvE or PvP. Ferocious is more so used on GWF's than GF's. Additionall barely any GF uses FLS. The marking and taunt would be better off in Tactician. Even then, this shouldn't be in any path. It should be removed and should be something with more appealing.

Replacement Feat: Ward: Allies within 100' Gain Ward. Ward increases your and allies Mitigation to damage by 2/4/6/8/10%.

Staying Power: Basically turned into Devastating Tide from the Conquerer path, This move first off shouldn't be here. That is why I moved it to the old Crushing Shield feat in the Conquerer path. The whole point of the Protector path is to mitigate heavy damage. Not do damage. Weapon Master's Strike should not be deleted. It has a great value in PvE content. It help's aggro, debuff, and partially damage large groups of mobs, and boss's.

Staying Power Rework: Weapon Master's Strike now also reduces the damage your target deals by 2/4/6/8/10%.

Unshakeable Line: Offers nothing. All a Protection Guardian has to do is wear shield talent and increase their maximum stamina by 15% and with boons, and other feats, fray, so on and so forth basically perma-shield in this path. It will be replaced with something that can offer something to make people feel rewarded for going this path.

Replacement Feat: Vengeance: Your Atwill powers have a chance to inflict your enemy with Vengeance. With every successful melee hit, Vengeance lower's the damage that target deal's by 5%. This effect can stack up to 20%.

Brawling Warrior: Again, another feat tied to a power. Cut off any relation to Knights Valor, and Enforced Threat. This feat is not used much as Knights Valor isn't used that much anymore. On top of that, 5% Damage Resistance isn't that good at all. To remove dead power's with relevance, it should be switched with a power that is widely used. Knights Valor as a power is a whole separate issue on it's own that I think should be looked at eventually.

Replacement Feat: Enduring Fray: Into the Fray now provides an additional 5/10/15/20/25% additional Temporary Hit Points to you and your allies.

Balanced Shield Fighter: As said before this path's purpose is to mitigate huge hits, not deal damage. This feat will be completely reworked.

Replacement Feat: Guardian's Promise: Allies who are damaged within 50' gain a damage absorption shield equal to 150/300/450/600/750% of your weapon damage. When this shield bursts and is consumed allies Deflection and Defense is temporarily increased by 10% for 8 seconds.

Overwhelming Impact: Not used. I can see Supremacy of Steel being paired up with Knights Valor. Thats ridiculous. It's a feat and this out of all of them shouldn't be paired with a power. Nor is this Tactician. I shouldn't be focused on debuffing anyone.

Replacement Feat: Primary Shield Fighter: When below 50% health you regenerate stamina 5/10/15/20/25% faster.

Iron Guard: Completely replaced with Vengeance, this new feat will be the the capstone on a GF that I like, and I think others will as well.

Replacement Capstone: Savior: Increase your Deflection and Defense by 20%. When you successfully block with your shield you gain Savior. Savior Increases your Deflection Severity by 15%, and Reduce Incoming Damage with your shield by an additional 10%. Savior lasts 20 Seconds.

theguiido · September 2017

Tactician

Tactician is one of those things where it has some pretty unique feats. It also has feats that simply do not need to be there at all. Another problem is they simply aren't good at all. Not as bad as Protector, but defiantly not as well in line with my perception of a viable path that it could be by any means. The very description of this path is simply wrong. You aren't controlling anything. No GF is using Anvil of Doom to stun anyone, no one is using Lunging Strike to interrupt anyone. Nor is anyone using Line Breaker Assault. Period. It's all out of place, and outdated. With these changes, I made sure any prior powers were replaced with feats that are much better and fit the path and role of a Support GF.

Daunting Challenge: Daunting Challenge is a nice idea. However it is something more affiliated with the Protector path. It simply is out of place. There for it should be changed with something brand new that help both the Fighter, and the fighter's allies.

Replacement Feat: Intimidating Mark: Your Mark now provides an additional 50/100/150/250/300% Additional Threat. Also, Any ally who strikes a target with Intimidating Mark applied to them gains additional Action Point's per attack.

Battle Trample: This simply should not be here. A Tactician GF's purpose is not to do damage. A Tac GF would not be using Trample the Fallen. Why this is even paired up into a passive is a issue on it's own, but to even have it here as a feat is just not correct. This feat was replaced for both IV and SM differently with both differences in mind. Instead of making it different, it has been set so both universally have the chance to receive this feat if chosen.

Replacement Feat: Light Weight: You and your allies within 50' move 10% faster, and allies also strike with an additional 5% Critical Severity.

United: It is out of place. Damage reductions like this belong in the Protector path. It has been changed to accommodate the damage reduction loss in mind.

Replacement Feat: Threatening Valor: Knights Valor now provides an additional 10/20/30/40/50% of the damage intercepted as Threat. Into the Fray also provides an additional 1/2/3/4/5% Action Point Gain for you and your allies.

Powerful Strike: As stated in the introductory overview of the path. I mentioned that no one uses Line Breaker Assault or Lunging Strike, not to mention no one choosing this feat. This feat is probably the most unwanted one in the whole GF, as it is associated with powers no one uses (like I just said), but not only that, but familiarized to less desired powers to try and "boost the popularity of use" by promoting it with a feat tied to a power as with most feats in the GF to try and make players pick the feat. This does not work because the first GF """"rework"""" nerfed Lunging Strike HARD by upping a very long CD on it, lowering it's popularity. The developer's attempt to make Line Breaker Assault viable has been proven (as seen in my self and other GF rotation's) to not be picked, and has not worked. As I have said over and over. Lower the ties from power to feats by a lot. (90% i'd say) Fix the powers after you establish very great status on feats.

This change to this feat will make it feel very rewarding to have gone this far in this path.

Replacement Feat: Restoration: Grant's you and your allies Recovery equal to 5/10/15/20/25% of your Defense.

Surging Tide: Devastating Tide already took this feats spot as the "1 Power to Feat rule" ever having more than one feat space taken up with the SAME POWER is ridiculous! I have changed this feat to ensure players in this path have a wide variety of very cool options to choose from.

Replacement Feat: Endowed: You dedicate your self to benefit your allies. Slotting Enhanced Mark increases your AC by an additional 1/2/3/4/5 and Enhanced Mark also increases your Passive threat Generation by an additional 15%. Additionally, Your Atwill powers now have 20/40/60/80/100% chance to apply Endowment. Endowment lowers your enemies Mitigation to you and your allies damage by 10%. Endowment last's 10 seconds and can be reapplied as long as you perform successful melee attacks on the target.

Terrifying Menace: This isn't a good feat at all. This feat has completely removed Anvil of Doom from ever being tied to it and replaced with something that makes a Tactician unique.

Replacement Feat: Ready to Go!: You and your allies gain 5/10/15/20% recharge speed as long as your allies are within 50' of you.

ultimatefgt123 · October 2017

I think the class and powers need a complete overhaul from the ground up

I'd like the 3 trees to actually follow 3 dedicated separate paths-

Conquerer - Personal and group DPS, Stats to focus on Power/Crit (feats that revolve around adding personal/group damage increases to the powers used, buffs based off of your GF offensive stats) Class Mechanics would revolve around attacking enemies but not being hit - such as a capstone that when in combat gains a damage bonus that stacks over time but gets reset when the GF is hit, and when the GF crits it provides a party damage buff of somekind

Protector - Personal and group Damage Mitigation, Stats to focus on Defense/Deflect/Lifesteal (feats that revolve around personal/group Damage mitigation increases to the powers used, buffs based off of your GF defensive stats) Class Mechanics would revolve around aggro mechanics and powers that trigger on being hit - such as everytime you deflect you throw out a taunt/stun/daze, and the number of mobs you have aggro on with the bigger you/your party's mitigation

Tactician - Support (Buff/Debuff), Stats to focus on Recovery (feats that revolve around adding personal/group AP gain and encounter cooldown decreases and debuffing enemies to the powers used) Class Mechanics would revolve around being more encounter button spammy - the capstone would 1) apply encounter cool down buff proportional to your stamina bar (max buff at full stamina) and 2) would put an extra debuff that would stack on all of your encounter powers that lasts a limited amount of time (causing a tactician spec gf to want to use short cooldown powers or spammable encounters such as griffin wrath)

Under that broad strategic vision i'd then like to see viable low tier feats under each tree that make the major/minor feat decisions have real viable flavour options IE CONQ/tact that would be primarily buffing DPS with minor debuff, or TACT/prot that would be Buff/Debuff with minor bonus group mitigation etc.

boromir · October 2017

I just want the devs to read what Proteus put together above. RJC9000 has done the same thing and we all agree on one thing as a whole.......the philosophy behind each path should be as obvious as their names.

Conqueror should buff personal and dare I say allies damage. Protector should mitigate damage for self and dare I say again, allies. Tactician should buff allies and self. Yeah I said it that way, allies over self, for the Tactician.

We also agree that nearly half of our feats are utterly useless. No one slots them, ever.

I’d like to see wording like: your at-will powers now....,your encounter powers now.....,using a daily power will.....And so on. Synergies that flow and are not directly linked to one or possibly two skills per feat.

theguiido · October 2017

boromir#3940 said:
I just want the devs to read what Proteus put together above. RJC9000 has done the same thing and we all agree on one thing as a whole.......the philosophy behind each path should be as obvious as their names.

Conqueror should buff personal and dare I say allies damage. Protector should mitigate damage for self and dare I say again, allies. Tactician should buff allies and self. Yeah I said it that way, allies over self, for the Tactician.

We also agree that nearly half of our feats are utterly useless. No one slots them, ever.

I’d like to see wording like: your at-will powers now....,your encounter powers now.....,using a daily power will.....And so on. Synergies that flow and are not directly linked to one or possibly two skills per feat.

Thanks for the feedback Boromir.

It took a lot of time to work on, and to get down right. I'm sure many GF's would like these changes i'd put in, I know I sure do. Gives more clarity to each role a player would like to choose.

I pointed out what is causing things like when people say "GF does too much damage" like reworking Staggering Challenge, and making KC a Taunt. That lowers GF damage by 110%. Which is a huge decrease in damage.

With talk of "where will the GF head" or "another nerf?" I and many GF's are pretty upset to know that they want to make us "Harassment/Interference role" which I totally disagree with and many others do as well. The true thoughts are unclear of where they want us which was said by @rgutscheradev

I hope he will see what I am saying and seriously take it into consideration in my feat/power post. Showing the TRUTH of how it really is.

For players to say the Class it's self is "Overpowered" is very naive. Infact, in a lot of ways the class is underpowered. This isn't coming from a biased view, it is coming from the proof in the pudding.

As I pointed out in my very long Feat posts and brief mentions of Powers no one uses, it is very clear too see that in terms of (Tanking) and (Buffing) the GF is very lacking. To move the GF to "Less of a damage role" is not even hitting the problem, in fact making it worse. The GF already had "Less of a damage role" in Mod 10 with the rework that demolished Fray, Tide of Iron, Commanders Strike, Combat Superiority, KC, and much more. Or did people forget?

The GF vs OP war, and the class's purpose and capability is very simple to understand. The GF does not have the Temp HP or Shields of a OP, it does not have as much Threat capability as a Paladin, and KC is the ONLY way to rip agro from a Paladin. What it loses in survivability, tanking and buffing it gains in self damage. It simply is a Primary Tank that equalizes enough to be considered a "Tank" and has Secondary Damage "capability" so they are not immortal but have a Secondary role in Strength and Dexterity making it capable of damage output by default, and can also excel in that role if the player chose to make that role it's Primary.

Logically if the GF can't buff anywhere near as much as Paladin, can't tank as good as a Paladin, and does not have the survivability of a Paladin, what would be left? Damage. If you played the class you would know that it is also built for combat. Guardian "Fighter". It is a Tank, but not as much as a tank as people want to believe. It is a Defender/Controller. A simple look at what both are tells you exactly what it (the class it' self) is.

Defender
Defenders take a lot of damage, mark targets and protect the rest of the party. If enemies they target try to attack another member of the party the defender will attack to stun, damage or taunt enemies to protect their companions.

Notice "the defender will attack to stun, DAMAGE or taunt enemies" Meaning 1 of 3 things the GF is Capable of doing.

1. CC. It is a Controller after all. Meaning it will CC enemies or players away from your party.

2. Damage, Is another way to defend players. By damaging or killing enemies and enemy players, you force them to retreat or neutralize them so they are no longer harassing your party.

3. Taunt. Meaning agro enemies/enemy players so you are the one taking the damage. Not your allies.

Controller
Controllers influence fights by controlling either the field of battle or targets directly. Their role is to ensure threats are minimized or handled efficiently.

Notice "controlling either the field of battle or targets DIRECTLY". Agro or threat, meaning agro like taunting an enemy, or agro meaning dragging enemies/players, being a threat to enemy players or enemy mobs/boss's forcing them to attack you.

Also Notice: "Their role is to ensure threats are minimized or handled efficiently" Meaning either the enemies/ enemy players are drawn to the GF or enemies/ enemy players are taken down by the GF.

Any proposition to "nerf" the class again or to make it more of "tank" that just sits there and does no damage is just wrong. I have shown proof of why it has the capability to do the damage it does. It's feat paths should be CLEAR to more fit the role the person wants to play. Want to be a Secondary DPS? or want to do more damage? Go Conquerer. Want to be a Living Wall Tank? Go Protector. Want to Buff allies? Go Tactician. The post I made each path better and efficient in the role they choose. With less reliance on powers that are not used, feats that are outdated and that no one uses, switched with feats and tied with powers that people will REALLY like.

A Harassment and Interference role in PvP/ PvE wont work for 2 reasons.

1. GF is no longer a tank but now more focused on controling people. Which is just straight up not right in general, but in PvP that cant work and should not be implimented due to the CC changes made as of 12b.

2. The role of a Guardian Fighter is that it can Tank and do Damage. Changing it into this new "Harassment/Interference role" completely destroys the classes purpose, and options people desire which will lead to a big decline of GF's. Even more than now. It is also something me and many other GF's will certainty disagree with.

I do not think a GF should EVER be on par of a Striker class especially in PvE especially number 1 of the Pain giver chart. However people need to understand it is a slow, dodge-less, Melee, Buff, FIGHTER. What is loses in not having a dodge, being slow, losing range in fighting, and losing in buffs and survivability it has for having such things forced upon it, it makes up in damage. It shouldn't be surprising the potential that Conquerer's can deal massive damage to anyone. You sacrifice Shield uptime, and survivability for damage. It's called trade off's, something EVERY class is capable of doing.

ultimatefgt123 · October 2017

Boromir mentions the key word - "synergy"

When you look at the feats and talents of say a gwf and also cw, you can tell how much better thought out the class was, a lot better synergy in all the feats powers and passives. Don't get me wrong all classes have their issues, but when you look at the gfs 3 trees there is no flow and it looks cobbled together as an after thought in comparison.

theguiido · October 2017

ultimatefgt123 said:
Boromir mentions the key word - "synergy"

When you look at the feats and talents of say a gwf and also cw, you can tell how much better thought out the class was, a lot better synergy in all the feats powers and passives. Don't get me wrong all classes have their issues, but when you look at the gfs 3 trees there is no flow and it looks cobbled together as an after thought in comparison.

There is obviously (some) differences. Basis is simply Damage, Tank, Buff, but some feats are not only not used, or outdated, literally like you said and as I have mentioned, they literally do not belong there. At all.

mamalion1234 · November 2017

hypervoreian said:
I would like a lot of changes to the Gf class,for the better ofcourse.

I need to clarify this,there are some threads running that imply devs are looking to rebalance Gf class.this is not correct.

The only thing we have atm,is a post by a dev,in the PVP FORUM,about BURST in PVP.
Nothing else.
(Burst in pvp=Bull charge,KC)

to the topic:

"1. Stop Aggravating strike from sliding the character forward when there is no target/untargetable enemy. It's probably the thing that got me killed the most when I was more squishie/less geared as the animation can not be cancelled."

+1

"2. Make Cleave's radius the same as Swordmaster so the tree would actually be desirable!"

+1

As for myself,i would like to see a buff to Tide Of Iron,adding a utility to it,tied to a feat.Simply put,the animation is excellent is a waste none to use it

Pin Down needs a buff. 0.3 secs? really?? it is OP atm1 :P

The temp hp of GF need a buff.They are all designed pre 70 level cap and the benefits are miniscule.

It is kinda unfair,OP tanks with out investment in DR just by pushing buttons and investing in power and rec.Giving him huge amounts of temp hp.I do not ask to have OPs broken temp hp ,but more than out current pitifull situation.

Crushing Shield feat: Change to stamina instead of damage.

Menacing Impact: 5 points for 5 feet....great.i think it needs to go double. 10 feet.

Armor of Bahamut: worthless at current content.If a Gf takes damage with his shield down it is probably KO.Feat needs a rework.

Terrifying Impact daily: current Aoe is too small.Worthless in pve

Knight challenge:take the cheese away,rework the encounter completely.It is the sole reason the Humsters attack en masse Gf class.

Frontline Surge:Increase Aoe

LineBreaker Assault:Increase CC duration.unnoticable atm

Flourish....oh my god flourish.. "stab them with blinding speed".Atm the most time consuming skill in NW universe."Blinding speed" yeah right...
Shorten the animation

Stunning Flourish : "stuns for 1 sec at last hit' .pre tenacity,pre mitigated ....5 points for 1 sec....As for its other bonus...5%....really.it should be 20% full feated at least.

I started recently to play dps guardian. The issue is not the knight challenge but the single item give to gf the damage bonuses ( survivor's wraps). Let me explain what if we wouldnt have that glove.

gf-op scenario. you would share the threat with op which means lesser hit on you harder to keep the capstone + shields warrior wrath however you would have the " cheese knight challenge" but with -25% damage and -10% critical from capstone and -20% from warrior wrath.

gf alone in party the main tank. You can get easily all the bonuses since you get damage all the time from a boss as main tank.
Here is the bet to able to knight challenge the boss and tank it at the same time . risk-reward good luck to attempt that last boss tong.

FOr me the issue is the glove and it should get the same treatment as " the old sets" .

Every class has + and - on some boss fights cant a single item make the 1 class far superior to others.

mebengalsfan · November 2017

Devs need to make the paragron path picked matter. One be for tanking and the other as a DPS. One should provide an increase to DR and HP. The other should be focused on damage increase and improvement in critical strike. Doing this would fix the GF along with some of the feats updates others have highlight. Also, when you go the DPS route, instead of causing threat to mark targets, you gain bonus damage to marked targets. It would allow DPS GF to run with tank build GF and allow both to mark but the DPS build would not build threat by a mark like the tank build.

Just some ideas on how to improve the GF.

wizardlvl80 · December 2017

I would like to have scaling buffs on GF. Our buffs don't go any further with our item lvl, and basically 16k GF will be buffing party with same effectiveness as 13k GF.

Something like Pally or DC buffs would be awesome.

hawkeyel · December 2017

From my experience what makes the OP the better tank choice is they have more hit points and temp hit points. Unless this issue is fixed we will see little change in which is the most wanted tank in end game .

theguiido · September 2018

hawkeyel said:
From my experience what makes the OP the better tank choice is they have more hit points and temp hit points. Unless this issue is fixed we will see little change in which is the most wanted tank in end game .

Man this is old boys, wanted to chime in and just re edit my mega posts lol, but also respond to you bro. I think there most recent ideas have been to bring GF in line with the OP. From what I'm reading about us in Mod 16 or beyond. This would be mean a MASSIVE overhaul like never before seen in the class. They would pretty much have to make a new class with all the work they would have to do. Which is why we won't see it any time soon. By soon, I mean in 2018. They have a disgusting of things to work on and this would require many hours of time and numerous resources to pull this off.

They would have to redo the class from the ground up cutting ALL ties with the GWF and truly making us MORE of an actual tanking class. This begs the question though, what will actually CHANGE. The idea of DPS, Protecting, and Buffing are 3 core ideals I love and many others do. Guardian FIGHTER. It reminds us of a Tanky character that can take a punch but also deal some really nice DPS. I think that core ideal should be left in the game. I personally wouldn't want insane shields like an OP all of a sudden in a DPS path. I think those CORE ideas should be left in the game. Chances are they will, but I think we'll see some major changes coming to the GF sometime in 2019. Lets hope they do us justice and not failure.

mebengalsfan · October 2018

@theguiido come mod 16 I see some changes coming the GWF and GF.

rjc9000 · November 2018

theguiido said:

Man this is old boys, wanted to chime in and just re edit my mega posts lol, but also respond to you bro. I think there most recent ideas have been to bring GF in line with the OP. From what I'm reading about us in Mod 16 or beyond. This would be mean a MASSIVE overhaul like never before seen in the class.

I just hope that these "changes" do not literally cause GF to imitate the Protection OP style of tanking.
Because I like actually having to think to some extent when I'm playing GF.

theguiido said:
They would pretty much have to make a new class with all the work they would have to do. Which is why we won't see it any time soon. By soon, I mean in 2018. They have a disgusting [list] of things to work on and this would require many hours of time and numerous resources to pull this off.

Of which the dev team lacks, I would expect, at best something similar Mod 15's CW.

theguiido said:

They would have to redo the class from the ground up cutting ALL ties with the GWF and truly making us MORE of an actual tanking class.

Good luck.
See above as to reasoning.

theguiido said:
The idea of DPS, Protecting, and Buffing are 3 core ideals I love and many others do. Guardian FIGHTER. It reminds us of a Tanky character that can take a punch but also deal some really nice DPS.

So you mean GWF, right?

Because we apparently am only supposed to be

theguiido said:
Guardian

so we don't hurt the poor bruised egos of those seeking the top epeen chart slot.

theguiido said:
Lets hope they do us justice and not failure.

Maybe we can hope the dev team will repeat Mod 10 and Mod 15 (for PvE) in terms of changes for "nerfing" GF.

mebengalsfan#9264 said:
I see some changes coming the GWF

I do not forsee many, if any significant changes. I would expect mostly superficial changes, like the changes to Instigator in Mod 15.

I can't see Destroyer being touched when it its a functioning DPS path. Whether you believe it to be overpowered or not, the path actually makes up for GWF shortcomings (though does not address one of the main shortcomings of GWF).

grimah · November 2018

I hope all that stuff is speculation based on nothing. Because I like how the GF class works. It's the reason why it's the only one I main despite having played all the other classes. We have the best selection of encounter powers alongside clerics. Some of our dailies could use some unnerfing/buffs but otherwise we have tons of decent tools for different situations.

As for the paragon paths... Cleave just needs to be buffed up to the same damage as WMS for IV to be taken in PvE (the cone is bad enough already).

And the trees suck. Conq is the only decent one. Both other capstones need to be changed. protection capstone for example could come with some temp hip-point generation, which would give it nice snergy with conq feats. Theres plenty of ideas what tactician could do.

But a class mechanic re-work? We already had one with guard which changed how we alot with how GFs played. I don't see why the mechanics would need to change further. It's not a clunky like the SW or slow like the OP, or extreme like the HRs.

And I don't believe our buffs should be as good as paladins. Why should it be? We are different classes and should operate differently. Not to mention our buffs are unique to our class (mostly) and is largely felt in the party.