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TR's feat [Shadow of demise] has a bug (|"|_-)
dolrey
Member Posts: 741 Arc User
Hello. Today I found out op mechanics or very possibly game bug in TR's feat [Shadow of demise].
This feat now deal too high piercing damage. At this screenshot you can see that one TR dealed to me 130k of piercing damage from this feat as one hit (sorry for russian language at the screenshot)
My character is tanky GF protector with feytouched enchancement and with other possible debuffs decreasing target's damage. Also I had guild enhancement which decrease incoming damage from TRs at 10% and guild boon which increase effectiveness of this enhancement at 10%. I just can't believe that this feat works with tenacity right. So, could you please check this and fix it?
Ps: oneshots from [Shocking execution] were at least less often while this feat is nonsense.
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Added after some discussions with experienced players:
I also discussed this problem with my friends. And we got one idea where might be the problem of SoD's high damage.
Before calculations of SoD's damage TR dealt some usual attacks to me. These attacks were reduced by tenacity, damage debuffs and defence.
So, in one of the latest patches developers changed SoD's damage and now it doesn't take into account target's defence. Now it calculates from damage that TR created.
And we suppose that after this patch SoD's damage also don't take into attention tenacity and damage debuffs which reduced usual TR's attacks.
Thank to this tenacity doesn't create enough influence at SoD's damage because very possibly tenacity was just ignored in calculations of 50% from that damage which TR already dealt.
This feat now deal too high piercing damage. At this screenshot you can see that one TR dealed to me 130k of piercing damage from this feat as one hit (sorry for russian language at the screenshot)
My character is tanky GF protector with feytouched enchancement and with other possible debuffs decreasing target's damage. Also I had guild enhancement which decrease incoming damage from TRs at 10% and guild boon which increase effectiveness of this enhancement at 10%. I just can't believe that this feat works with tenacity right. So, could you please check this and fix it?
Ps: oneshots from [Shocking execution] were at least less often while this feat is nonsense.
====
Added after some discussions with experienced players:
I also discussed this problem with my friends. And we got one idea where might be the problem of SoD's high damage.
Before calculations of SoD's damage TR dealt some usual attacks to me. These attacks were reduced by tenacity, damage debuffs and defence.
So, in one of the latest patches developers changed SoD's damage and now it doesn't take into account target's defence. Now it calculates from damage that TR created.
And we suppose that after this patch SoD's damage also don't take into attention tenacity and damage debuffs which reduced usual TR's attacks.
Thank to this tenacity doesn't create enough influence at SoD's damage because very possibly tenacity was just ignored in calculations of 50% from that damage which TR already dealt.
Post edited by dolrey on
4
Comments
SoD works differently now, you can take 0 damage on 6 sec window and SoD will still deal damage to you.
[Tell] From [Kid Cleep@darth132]: [1:32] [Combat (Self)] Snöwbrö deals 108310 (209029) Physical Damage to you with Shadow of Demise.
Old SoD was based X and since X is reduced and low damage SoD was low as well. New SoD is based on Y, which is not reduced and in PvP that imaginary number is often higher than X and due to that SoD is now higher. Also SoD is affected by debuffs and resistance layers now. In your screenshot you can see that SoD damage is reduced by resistance layer (tenacity i guess) because X is lower than Y.
I hope i explained it correctly, someone correct me if i am wrong.
The problem might be that in the past, if you significantly mitigated the accumulated damage ("X") during the SoD window, then SoD wouldn't hit for very much. That mitigation could be DR, layers of shields, as well as dodges.
I think that what's happening now is that the mitigation is being applied at the end (when the SoD damage procs), and it's based on the pre-mitigated damage accumulated during the SoD window. This has several consequences (as far as I can tell):
- Attacks that are dodged during the SoD window still accumulate pre-mitigated damage that is applied on the SoD damage proc (i.e. SoD accumulated damage could be dodged before the change, but cannot effectively be dodged now... since the SoD damage proc can't be dodged and dodging the damage as it's being accumulated no longer reduces the accumulation)
- In order to apply any mitigation to the SoD effect, you need to time any kind of block / mitigation for the SoD damage proc instead of the damage accumulation. Since this is a 6 second timer rather than an actual TR attack, it's more difficult to predict / react to.
I might be wrong since I've only played a little bit since the change. But that's my best guess as to what's going on.The first of my 2 points above is pretty major. The second can be learned to work with once folks get used to fighting TRs.
I can understand SoD being not dodgable but i agree that dodged damage should not count to accumulated damage. It requires further tweaking i guess. Also these PvP changes are still not final so in the end it might work out.
(Since the pre-mitigated damage doesn't take into account any effects on the target such as debuffs or DR, it might be hard for it to know that the attack was even dodged... a new type of system may need to be created to negate dodged damage but not take into account debuffs on target).
But it seems pretty broken in PvP now, since dodging damage is an integral part of many class defense mechanics.
I also find it kind of funny that the "fix" for SoD in PvE when people were up in arms about the "debuff double dip" ended up making the power broken in PvP. How unprecedented XD
It's so hard to balance for both game modes.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1231984/official-feedback-thread-m12-private-pvp-queues-a-bit-about-where-pvp-is-headed/p10
Note part of what's confusing is that there have been TWO changes:
1) The change where all the piercing powers, including SoD, changed from ignoring resistances completely, to paying attention to resistances (and don't forget damage vulnerability, like Lantern of Revelation, is a special case of resistance) but having a whole bunch of armor penetration. This is discussed in the preview thread on armor pen and PvP (with some general armor pen stuff in another preview thread).
2) Change (1) introduced a bug specifically to SoD, where a heavily debuffed target would get the debuffs counted twice. That's the specific SoD bugfix mentioned in the link above.
I think the interaction you may want to look at is the idea that in the new SoD (post-fix), attacks which are dodged still accumulate pre-mitigated damage. This is an issue with TRs who can do a pretty big SE hit (which is often easy to dodge), but now gets "accumulated" pre-mitigation and then hits for half the amount when SoD procs. To the best of my understanding, this effectively makes the 50% SE follow-up SoD proc hit un-dodgeable (in addition to it being more difficult to mitigate because of the timing delay).
But perhaps that's intended?
I don't really have a horse in this race, just facilitating communication. XD
Edit: to clarify, this was not a problem when SoD was "double-dipping" because if attacks were dodged in the SoD window, they counted for 0 damage towards the SoD accumulation. But removing the "first debuff dip" seemingly also caused attacks which are dodged to accumulate damage towards the SoD damage proc (which kind of "makes sense", since removing the "first debuff dip" appeared to rework the calculation to not take into account any effects on the target, including stuff like debuffs but also perhaps dodges).
So put very plainly: should SoD accumulate damage from attacks that are dodged in the 6 second window?
If yes: the power is WAI.
If no: you may need to take another look.
Edit 2: It may also be un-deflectable. So the question is two fold:
Should SoD accumulate damage from attacks that are dodged or deflected in the 6 second window?
Currently it appears (based on very limited testing) that it is counting both dodged and deflected attacks towards the "accumulation" for the SoD damage proc.
Place yourself in TRs shoes. What would you do as TR if all your offense is bad that you cant kill anyone and all you can do is perma CC opponents?
Most TRs will be limited to use BB in order to also use ITC. I run a WK TR who has access to a stronger single-target daily but the trade off is I am killable. This is one thing, IMO, that constitutes to balance. So, if TR being a dps class is much much easier to kill, like a GWF/SW/CW, then yes, definitely 100-130K for a daily rotation will be an acceptable number.
Also did a practice session with my DC friend, and after some testing we came up with BTS+other debuffs to bring my 90-100K SoDs down to 30-50K. So with FEY+BTS, you can practically disable a TR. On the other hand, Astral Shield isn't as powerful now because the pre-mitigated damage still constitutes the damage dealt by SoD. So yea, opens up maybe some Faithful+debuff builds. Furthermore, we found that most types of stealth IMMUNES the burst from SoD. Shadowclad works pretty well, because my bloodbath triggered his stacks and by the time SoD hits, he's in stealth from Shadowclad and SoD hits with 0 damage. I've yet to test if this works with Ambush ring too. But I can say for a fact that TR/HR stealth sometimes immune it as well. Certain item sets that debuff target to do less damage, like Valhalla, helps just as much.
PS: Also likely in a premade environment, having a CB build TR perma-CB the SoD TR on the other team lowers the SoD outputs by half (Courage Breaker being a [DMG / (1+1.2)] damage modifier, so skip some math, average SoD from a CB'd TR around 45K? I think.
The skill has changed and sI should your play styles.
2: if is intentional change tooltip to unresistable damage because piercing damage respects damage debuffs or shields.