test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Refinement RNG

170 preservation wards used on a Rank 11 at 3% chance, in an empty instance. STILL rank 11! I truly enjoy neverwinter, but THAT'S the reason I will quit playing this game! $17 and 0 results is a slap in the face. Thank you.

Comments

  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    AMEN! I was laughing working on one of my alts over the weekend - I told them I had a 50% chance to upgrade something and asked how many preservation wards that would take. The poor new people in the room both said 1 at most, those of us that new better were guessing between 10-30.

    Actual number: 22
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • finnthehuman81#7385 finnthehuman81 Member Posts: 237 Arc User
    15 pres wards to get a rank 9 azure to rank10, 15 wards at 20%chance to refine? I don't get the math .
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,930 Arc User
    Purely anecdotal but I've found that when 1 isn't popping, if I switch to another enchantment to refine it often works...
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • xinexixxinexix Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    I keep going until i want to put a hole in my tv, then i don't try for a few hours. Usually it'll upgrade after the wait.

  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,930 Arc User
    I've heard (mostly unsubstantiated) opinions that the rng can get 'locked' into a negative reply, but I've played with this myself and switching has usually worked.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • scanix#5133 scanix Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    10% chance, 53 attempts. I will never try anything below 10% without a coal. XD
    Edit: I'm a coder myself and I know that this is possible if just doing a Math.rnd() each time, but to stop making people mad I would switch it to something like: for a 10% chance, get the attempt that is successful somewhere between 1 and 20 or so. You could also gradually increase the chance after 10 attempts (for 10%) or something like that. I know that mathematically the behaviour is correct this way, but IT %!$&%$ HURTS MY FEELS! XD
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    10% is 10% and ward 1 vs 100 has the same odds.
    Bad luck counter is need all over this game.

    Lockboxes, refinement %, etc...

    Everything in this game is a gamble and for items that are not a gamble cost us $10 a pop. If you do all enchantments slots opened and do coal wards just on r12 and pay cash it would cost you a minimum of $220 without companion gear, this is of course r12 bindings. It does not include your artifacts, etc....
  • genodaman#0807 genodaman Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    244!!!!!!!!! That is ultimately how many preservation wards it took. You guys can kiss my ***. $25 smh. So which is more ridiculous? The fact the RNG is so horrible it TOOK 244 wards? Or the fact I kept spending ad/zen until it refined? Fortunately my tv and controller survived.
  • kamehameha069#8658 kamehameha069 Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    My most hated aspect of this game! Was the main reason I quit playing for about 5 months.
  • arcadeus#1794 arcadeus Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    50% only works out to 1 in 2 over 100s of throws.... Technically it's over an infinite number of throws but it assymptotes much earlier. I got two legendary mount packs in 50 keys. Others used over 700 and got bubkus. That's probability for you. Btw earlier today got 3% refinement in 12 pres wards... Spent over 50 to get a 20% the day before.
  • zell400#8061 zell400 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    6000 keys dry... No leg pack.... Sigh
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,099 Arc User
    I did a few upgrades this weekend and the RNG seemed extra nasty. All took way more attempts than it felt like it should have. The worst was 60 tries for a 10% upgrade. I wonder if the RNG was overworked this weekend with the sasha ball tickets.

    In the past, the RNG can be strangely streaky. My best was doing two 3% upgrades with a single 10 pack of wards. Sadly the numerous losing streak of subsequent 3% upgrades were too much for me as now I will only use coal wards for 3%. Doing 5% upgrades is still ok with pres wards. The only annoying thing is it can take a long time to succeed if you get a the losing streak.

    After playing this game for four years, I am convinced that there are periods of times when the RNG result is stuck in "fail" for some reason. When going against the RNG, it is not the time for button mashing. Guaranteed huge loses if the RNG happens to be stuck in the losing streak mode. Always wait after a few tries. Even go away and come back later.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    Log out after a failed, log in and try again. This seems to refresh and improve odds, don't know why but it does.
  • badboyboogie#8626 badboyboogie Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    I recently had to use 273 preservation wards to upgrade two rank 11 enchantments to rank 12. In the end I only had about 5 wards left, so I was actually relieved the second one upgraded!!!!! With a supposed success chance of 3% (or 33 wards on average per enchantment), that equates to having to use over 200 additional wards more than it should have.

    Now I understand there are no guarantees with attempting to upgrade items with preservation wards, but the success ratio is currently way off and needs looking into. I have upgraded many items before, some using a few less than average, some a few more, but having to use the quantity stated above is, I feel, completely unacceptable.

    I submitted a ticket to Arcgames and the reply I received stated that it looked like I had encountered an unreported gameplay bug, and that I should report it as such to a link that they provided in their reply.

    It has actually made me less inclined to want to invest as much time into the game as I had been doing, and I have reduced my daily playtime from around 4-5 hours on some days, to less that one hour recently. I’ve just been doing a few dailies out of habit more than anything else, as I'm not feeling inclined to farm for astral diamonds to buy even more wards, when the same thing could very easily happen again. I may even take a complete break for a bit, while I work on my backlog of other games.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,930 Arc User
    I refined a couple of enchantments from r11 to r12 today (3% chance). I went to an area with less than 10 people and no luck after 7 tries. I paused, opened my bank looked through the chat window etc - 8th try was a success. On the 2nd enchantment, tried once - used the auto-sort on my bag inventory to move everything around and on the 2nd try it popped.

    This is pretty typical of my experiences these days.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


    Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
  • chimeraxchimerax Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    Welcome to the Cryptic Casino.
  • icelantern#6553 icelantern Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    I think it's such a corrupt practice that RNG is mixed with microtransactions. It would be better if we had any assurances that the percentages are actually as stated.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    All I can say is this...

    Two legendary to mythical artifacts took a total of 1100+ wards.

    Please tell me how a 5% item used around 500 wards. Oh yeah, because the 5% odd is actually 0.5%




  • miket196718#6113 miket196718 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    you know guys the amount you spend on this game could be better spend on food and cloths? get real why complain about something if your still gonna do it?pay to play is just that nothing more..when you do complain do you get a ubsurd reward or jusy a excuse saying go to this site and complain some more?come back to reality and open your eyes people ....play to win or pay to plkay ? your choice but stop whinning if you lose......
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    Go buy a tshirt and sandwich

    Meanwhile we will continue pointing out that a game we chose to support has questionable math while we hope that the people we are supporting pay attention and look into it.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • bandoswb#3578 bandoswb Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    This baffles me on so many different levels.
    1. If they were found out to be deliberately cheating players on rng with pres wards, that would be the end of the game. Like a casino found to be cheating - people will go elsewhere.
    2. The theories that people have are based on so small a sample size to be insignificant. Empty instance/sort bag/switch enchant. Again, if any of that were true, then they would lose players because the rng was thought to be rigged
    3. If it was rigged, someone would have spilt the beans by now.

    So until an employee admits to the rng cheating, I will continue to believe that it is truly random.

    YET, people believe it corrupt (the .007% chance of 244 wards for a 3%). This is a problem for the company that is easily solved

    If it is NOT corrupt, then over the millions of upgrades, the pres ward consumption SHOULD get to odds. IE, from the start of the game, I bet that a 10% chance has been about 10 pres wards, ON AVERAGE. Thus, Cryptic is making exactly as much off of pres wards as the odds calculate. BUT, they are losing players, making players mad, and for NO GOOD REASON. When you hit it early, you dont feel that great, and almost instantly forget it.

    THEREFORE, allow us to to simply pay the odds as an OPTION. The company will end up in the same place financially, and the players will be happier - how is this not a win/win. I'd happily pay 34 pres wards for my r12, as many pay the coal ward price for their enchantment. Just give me the option. What would the downside be?
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited July 2017

    This baffles me on so many different levels.
    1. If they were found out to be deliberately cheating players on rng with pres wards, that would be the end of the game. Like a casino found to be cheating - people will go elsewhere.
    2. The theories that people have are based on so small a sample size to be insignificant. Empty instance/sort bag/switch enchant. Again, if any of that were true, then they would lose players because the rng was thought to be rigged
    3. If it was rigged, someone would have spilt the beans by now.

    So until an employee admits to the rng cheating, I will continue to believe that it is truly random.

    YET, people believe it corrupt (the .007% chance of 244 wards for a 3%). This is a problem for the company that is easily solved

    If it is NOT corrupt, then over the millions of upgrades, the pres ward consumption SHOULD get to odds. IE, from the start of the game, I bet that a 10% chance has been about 10 pres wards, ON AVERAGE. Thus, Cryptic is making exactly as much off of pres wards as the odds calculate. BUT, they are losing players, making players mad, and for NO GOOD REASON. When you hit it early, you dont feel that great, and almost instantly forget it.

    THEREFORE, allow us to to simply pay the odds as an OPTION. The company will end up in the same place financially, and the players will be happier - how is this not a win/win. I'd happily pay 34 pres wards for my r12, as many pay the coal ward price for their enchantment. Just give me the option. What would the downside be?

    It is rigged by the account. I have every +5 ring from the underdark collected expected Rising defense and power, yet many who I run with have only seen one, two or no +5 rings.

    As for odds of improving an item are also rigged ad one player I know can proc a 1% with ten wards constantly yet it takes me that many to process a 90% items some days.

    The biggest gamble in this game is the LB, not the legendary mounts but the fact of having RNG boxes in a RNG box is truly gambling and odds are never in the player favor, just like a casnio. The other thing, if I broke the ToS I could earn real world money for digital items and that makes the LB a gamble just like a lottery and your odd on winning a good prize in a LB are lower than pick 3 or 4 in most states.



    Where I live, Pick 3 has a1:2500 odds for a player to win $250 vs the lockbox estimated odd of 1:6000 for a legendary pack. I only use free daily keys and keys I may pick up when they go on sale. I do not spend anything else on this game as it is a waste.

  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    @mebengalsfan#9264 I want to strangle him every time he says "here hand it to me" and instantly upgrades whatever I've just spend 80 wards trying to upgrade.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    ravenskya said:

    @mebengalsfan#9264 I want to strangle him every time he says "here hand it to me" and instantly upgrades whatever I've just spend 80 wards trying to upgrade.

    RPN always get 1 to proc a day off 10 wards. That is 30-40K in AD for 10 wards for an item that can sell for 200-250K AD. That is a really nice profit.

    Some items you cannot give to others to proc for you: Artifacts and Artifact Gear. Those are evil and have taken many wards away from me, even with a 90% and 50% chance.

    One day it took 33 wards to proc an 90% item. Most of my wards come from AD to Zen exchange but seriously, what are the devs thinking with % odd. A 90% item should always always proc the first time if not the second. But on more than on occassion I have had to use more than 10 wards for a 90% item.

    Don't get me going on making an artifact epic. One day it almost took 100 wards for a 50% item. I'm like OMG, this is so stupid.

    But with all of that said I can run a CN and get two +5 rings. I mean that has happened to me now 2x in CN and a minimum 3x in demo. LOL...

    I wish I could trade the +5 rings because I have a bunch in my inventory needing a new home. LOL...
  • ravenskyaravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    A year of play and just one +5 ring... and it's a pvp ring.

    And my ability to refine stuff is garbage on the regular.

    The only think I'm okay at luck wise - is pulling whatever the other people in the group want out of the chest instead of them.
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

Sign In or Register to comment.