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CA damage underated
stefoid
Member Posts: 74 Arc User
I figure a HR is special because they get almost 100% guaranteed uptime of CA with AotP.
I know there is a 1200 soft cap on CA stat, and its very cheap to get there with a combination of 2 easy to get boons and some cheap artifacts that have both CA and our beloved CRIT.
If you take a halfling with DEX/CHA and make your CHA stat your 3rd best, you will get another 7% CA
3 very cheap pets will get you another 7% at least
AotP off hand augment will give another 2% in solo or around 6-8% in group
15+12+7+7+2 is at least 43%.
Drow hunting boon is good for another 10% = 4%
thats 47%!! and its quite cheap to get there!!!
If you have the AD, you can get a purple staldorf and epic artifacts and push it over 50% - probably closer to 60% in group content.
Is there a flaw in my thinking because I have neevr seen CA mentioned more than casually in passing, but for AD poor toons, it seems like a no brainer to try to stack it as a major source of damage.
(I made a halfling ranger, but because I didnt know any better, I chose DEX/CON and made STR my 3rd stat and CHA my worst - crying now)
EDIT>>>> I guess if you pay for a race reroll, you can reassign starting stats and stat bonuses, right? hmmm)
I know there is a 1200 soft cap on CA stat, and its very cheap to get there with a combination of 2 easy to get boons and some cheap artifacts that have both CA and our beloved CRIT.
If you take a halfling with DEX/CHA and make your CHA stat your 3rd best, you will get another 7% CA
3 very cheap pets will get you another 7% at least
AotP off hand augment will give another 2% in solo or around 6-8% in group
15+12+7+7+2 is at least 43%.
Drow hunting boon is good for another 10% = 4%
thats 47%!! and its quite cheap to get there!!!
If you have the AD, you can get a purple staldorf and epic artifacts and push it over 50% - probably closer to 60% in group content.
Is there a flaw in my thinking because I have neevr seen CA mentioned more than casually in passing, but for AD poor toons, it seems like a no brainer to try to stack it as a major source of damage.
(I made a halfling ranger, but because I didnt know any better, I chose DEX/CON and made STR my 3rd stat and CHA my worst - crying now)
EDIT>>>> I guess if you pay for a race reroll, you can reassign starting stats and stat bonuses, right? hmmm)
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For stats, you're better off investing in WIS for higher crit chance than in CHA.
For companions, you'd better get some companion with a raw damage bonus (earth archon, air archon, siege master, fire archon), which stacks multiplicatively with everything else, rather than a CA bonus pet (intellect devourer, blink dog, staldorf).
About re-rolling stats, yes I'm afraid you'll have to pay for a whole race re-roll token to re-roll your stats whithout changing your race which is perfectly stupid.
Abilities Damage (Minimum) = (BaseDamage+Power*PowerCoefficient+MinWeaponDamage *WeaponCoefficient)*(1+StatBonus)*(1+FeatBonus)*(1 +BonusFrom#OfPoints)
Critical Severity and Combat Advantage
Critical Severity = 0.75 + RaceBonus + FeatBonus + AbilityBonus
Critical Strike Damage = AbilitiesDamage*CriticalSeverity
Combat Advantage Damage = AbilitiesDamage*(1+0.15*(1+StatBonus))
Critical and Combat Advantage Damage = AbilitiesDamage*((1+0.15*(1+StatBonus))+CriticalSe verity)
Its that last line. I get it.
So for things that increase damage by 10%, it is multiplying 'abilitydamage' by 1.1 for each soruce , so if you have 3 sources of 10% damage, and you are increasing by 10% 3 times = 100*1.1*1.1*1.1 = 133.1
whereas if you have 3 seperate sources of 10% CA, its 100*(1 + .1 +.1 + .1) = 130
Even so, +50% CA seems like a lot to me. I wonder how many sources of multiplicative damage you would have to get to exceed it? I think elite toons with ALL THE STUFF - collections of archons and so on, what you say is correct, but for cost effectiveness, I think CA takes the cake.
I mean, my guys crit chance after -10% for SG is 27%. :-O So +40% whether it crits or not sounds pretty good from his perspective, and +40% CA is a lot more achievable than doubling my crit score any time soon with the resources I am willing to commit to the game.
Those builds I see around are for elite BiS toons so that makes sense that they discount CA.
Maybe I need to make the poor/lazy mans guide to hunter rangers, lol
The modern CA formula should look something like this:
Drow Ambush Tactics * (1+ [0.15 + % CA Companions + % of CA special Stat+ ((CHA-10)/100)]
*Drow Ambush Tactics is a 1.1x multiplier to your overarching CA bonus, so if you have it (which you should), you replace Drow Ambush Tactics with 1.1, if you don't have it, then Drow Ambush Tactics = 1.0.
If you own all the CA Comps, own Drow Ambush Tactics, have 17 CHA, and have 1000ish CA Special stat (we'll make it 8% for ease of calculation), then the CA calculation should look like this:
1.1 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.8 + 0.07 + 0.05 + 0.05 + 0.05)
1.1 * (1 + (0.45))
1.1 * (1.45)
1.595, or a combined 59.5% CA damage bonus
Granted, the CA companions in question are assumed to be epic, which is going to be an investment of several million and is probably going to be out of reach for most weaker HRs. And you're also looking at a 8% CA Special stat buff, which is also likely to be out of reach for most newer players (it's possible to get the 8% CA special stat bonus without paying much if you have the Maze Engine boon + first Icewind Dale + Lantern of Revelation + CA on offhand, but that's a lot of luck in a game where the RNG Goddess hates your guts).
I also believe Aspect of the Pack offhand bonus is just a flat damage buff ala Longstrider's/Aspect of the Serpent, so you can't count it in the CA category.
If you have a critical hit, it's +59.5% to your crit severity (not *1.595 either), so the actual damage bonus increase on a crit depends on how much crit severity you already have.
If you're running a dread or vorpal, the math works out pretty grim.
But let's say for the sake of argument that you have 90% crit severity, meaning your crits do 1.9 base damage. If you have your +59.5% CA bonus that puts you up to 149.5% combined severity, or 2.495 base damage.
(2.495 - 1.9) / 1.9 = 0.31315789473 ~ 31.3% damage increase
But at least a quarter of that you're getting for free, even if you don't spend a dime (15% base CA, some attrib, bonus, that drow ambush thing)
Hey btw I heard they're fixing the archon bonus...
I think the easiest way to compare the companions is to compare the "total" damage buff of adding in the companions. We'll need to look at the updated damage formula presented by the one and only (Edit) guild mistress.
For comparing our damage buffs, we only really need to look at the section with damage buffs, Crit Severity, and Combat Advantage. This is because we can assume the character has the same parameters (ability coefficient, level base, ability scores, etc.) and it would be unfair to compare a hit which gets a buff/better damage roll versus a hit which doesn't get the same weapon damage roll/buff. (ex: an ability which gets the CA damage buff is going to hit harder than an ability which doesn't).
For this, we can assume that all companion "proccing" requirements are satisfied (ex: if we use CA companions, we are assuming we have CA), we roll the same base damage every time, have only the 75% base Critical severity, only have 15 CHA, have 8% of CA Special stat, and have Drow Ambush Tactics. We can use the abridged formula:
Base Damage * (1+Product of Buffs) * [(1+Crit Severity) + ((Drow Ambush Tactics) * (1+0.15 + % CA Comps + % CA Special Stat + ((CHA-10)/100))]
So, what's the damage bonus of using all 3 CA companions at epic (5% apiece)?
Base Damage * (1.0) * [(1.75) + (1.1 ( 1+0.15 + 0.05 + 0.05 + 0.05 + 0.08 + 0.05)]
Base Damage * 1.0 * [1.75 + (1.1 * 1.43)]
Base Damage *(3.323), or a 3.323x damage multiplier (combined 332.3% damage buff)
What's the damage bonus of using the Epic Air Archon (5%), Epic Siege Master (4% on a non-SH map), and Epic Earth Archon (6%)?
Base Damage * (1.05 * 1.04 * 1.06 ) * [(1.75) + (1.1 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.08 + 0.05))]
Base Damage * (1.15752 ) * [(1.75) + (1.408)]
Base Damage * (3.6654450), or a 3.6654450x damage multiplier (combined 366.545% damage buff).
The difference is damage is a bit small, but it's still larger on with the raw damage buff companions. Which, for a BiS player looking to increase their DPS by every means possible, means that they will always go for the raw damage buff companions.
You can also do this calculation for the Severity comps too. If we take an Epic Erinyes (+10% Severity), Epic Cambion Magus (+10% Severity), and Epic
Side BDancing Blade, what's the damage buff if we use all of our "base" values (save for Critical Severity)?Base Damage * (1.0 ) * (1+ 0.75+0.1 +0.1 + 0.05) + (1.1 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.08 + 0.05))
Base Damage * (1.0) * (2.0) + (1.408)
Base Damage * (3.408), or a 3.408x damage multiplier (combined 340.8% damage buff).
Still a noticeable decreased when compared to the raw damage buff companions.
For a wealthy player willing to shell out for the comps with the highest possible DPS Increase, the raw damage bonus comps still win. Granted, this calculation relies on a lot of factors (ex: total 100% CA uptime, you always score a Crit, you don't get chipped so Earth Archon applies, and the mob in question isn't oneshotted so the Air Archon bonus doesn't apply, etc.), but at a BiS endgame level, these are mostly non-issues.
I hope this explains why most BiS builds choose the damage bonus companions above all else. Yeah, I got lazy in the CA increase. The 'Murica celebration fireworks are keeping me up and I can't do jack for math while I'm sleepy (also doesn't help I have an ancient history lecture tomorrow morning =w=).
Yes, the Archon bonus is getting fixed, and according to the math of Grace, Cryptic didn't screw up the fix. I don't include it because I'm too lazy.
Contact:@EmeraldG1173
Main: EMERALD LEGEND
So if you have 185% crit severity + CA (2.85 multiplier), assuming 100% crit chance, adding a p. vorp gives you:
(3.35 - 2.85)/(2.85) = 0.17543859649 ~ 17.5% effective damage increase
So the question is: can you get a damage enchantment that contributes more than 17.5% effective damage increase?
I don't play HR so I don't actually know XD
I would be speculate that lightning, bile, or holy that could maybe be viable in a situation like that.
I use vorpal, and gambit and have about 180 critsev, more with combat adv. Food and pots will push me to 200+.
I think our main problem is we are too damn good. Already we can out-damage almost anything except the very best gwfs, and that's with all the limitations we have with weapon enchants, imagine if lightning for example DID proc off roots, dots etc. We'd solo everything. I think the devs have always been very careful about what procs off what with our class.
1. It's not updated, it's outdated.
2. What the sentence under the picture says...
Or are you just referring to the part where Sharp's Ability coefficient sheet is outdated?
Because I wrote that in Mod11.5 when it Sharp's ability coefficient sheet + your formula was the most up-to-date damage formula on the forums.