How do you even survive the first shot?

epok#7782
epok#7782 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
I've been playing a TR for 10 months on PS4, pretty much since the game came out. I'm at 3550 and there is a double RP weekend next week. The entire time I've been playing this game I struggle with getting 1-shot by things. It's horrible, I couldn't even do Orcus until I was 2900 because whenever he raised his arms his AOE would 1-shot me.

Now that I've passed that, I'm getting the same problem with MSVA. If I can make it past the first phase army then I hold my own on the dps charts, but the mobs just murder me most of the time and then I'm defeated. I've been reading the forums here a lot and people seem to be using deflect and lifesteal but I don't know how that even works.

Lifesteal is useless if you are at 100% or at 0% life. Deflect is the same thing, you only have a % chance to survive any given hit. Why does it sound like no one else has a problem with getting defeated in the first 10 seconds of a bossfight? I've tried using impossible to catch, but even that doesn't always save me because of it's glitchiness.

Comments

  • blur#5900
    blur#5900 Member Posts: 490 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Like you said Lifesteal wont help you there, it helps vs weaker hits which you can survive.
    You probably cant reach a deflection number high enough to be effective in PvE without sacrificing offense stats. Even then, as you said, its only a chance. It will save you or it will not. ITC is best when it comes to deflect in PvE.
    You are probably missing HP, anything under 100k HP will probably die. Also some defense can probably lower that damage which is 1-hitting you.
    Another thing, wait for tanks to get aggro so the enemies focus on them and not on you and dodge to avoid major damage.
    Activate ITC, drop Smoke Bomb, hide in Stealth, dodge... Giants in SVA have AOE which hits everyone in front of them, watch out for that attack, sometimes its hard to see the red zone.
    Soulforged enchant should have saved you on Orcus.
    image
  • captflint#2758
    captflint#2758 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    "best way block punch, not be there"
    I roll everywhere i go in a fight.
    LS is nice.. Defelect is better, ITC is great(better at stealth, and dodging wins. Stamina regen is very important, and so is health.

    Roll in, ITC stealth, smack something, roll, Smoke bomb, roll...slash.. Find a brute on the edge of the mobs and flurry his BACK.
    When in doubt, roll. You dont even have to roll out of the red, just roll. Ill dodge to the other side of a dragon so i can get back into the fight quicker. After using this strat for a while, you get a rhythm. when to do and when you dont have to..
    Im actually getting rid of relic weapons for new river district. I blow the bonus to frequently..
    Never stare at anything in the face.

  • epok#7782
    epok#7782 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    I know how and when to roll, I play Dark Souls (lol). My question was literally just asking how and why all TRs dont just put everything into defense? How high is everyone's defense that they can afford to put ANY points into LS or deflect? And where are they getting the defense from? I just want to line up right for the double RP next weekend.

    Situations involving "learn to dodge" or "only engage while in impossible to catch" mean we spend 50% or more time not even dpsing, and are more balance-related questions that will hopefully addressed when they balance the TR next.
  • talon1970
    talon1970 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 152 Arc User
    My stats:

    112k Hp
    2.4k Defense
    2.2k Deflect
    6.8 Lifesteal (Most from SH boon)

    Personally i don't have the feeling that i have to invest any point into "Toughness", i have higher dark enchants in my utility than in my defensive slots, and yes i am a glascannon, thats fore sure.
    My credo is, a Tr is full life or dead :D, but i have also plans in the future to change some of my enchants, dunno exactly for more Ls, deflect, or deflect, defense and Hp or an mix between them.

    My "tactic" in the Orcus fight:
    After entering i am running in an half circle (left or right) around him, activating my Wheel, in that time the Tank should have the aggro and the DC(s) are debuffing him, so i barely never had much problems with him.
    So also we are using voice chat, and if he is using the void attack i become a warning from the tank or dc(s), dodgerolling away, and the fight starts again.
    Also ITC is only an selfbuff for me, instead of an defensive encounter, i am only using it bc it is useful as buff , i never trusted it that much to become invulnerable.

    Tr has an high deflect, so i always thought that it is better to improve that, instead defense.
    People like sharp mentioned that defense is always better in PvE but i am not sure if they are wrong with classes like Tr and Hr with that high base deflect, or if i made an mistake.
    As long as i could deal with it, it is fine for me.
  • blur#5900
    blur#5900 Member Posts: 490 Arc User
    My defensive stats in combat with r10 defense enchant on character and r9 on companion defense slots:

    127k - HP
    12.3k - Defense (~38% damage resistance, with Defense guild boon)
    2.5k - Deflect (~27%)
    2.7k - Lifesteal (~13%)

    Stats are without potions. 4x r10 silveries on character, 2x r9 darks in companion defense. Plan is to replace silveries with Black Ice (highest gain from Covenant), companion will have only one Dark enchant.

    Whatever we stack in defense slots we will still be squishy. Dodge is what saves us, pop ITC when you see them coming after you, can save you even from Orcus hit.
    image
  • neidanman#1423
    neidanman#1423 Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    For dps classes its better to stack HP than def - mobs generally have an ar pen of 15% so ~6k of def is usually being ignored, whereas HP always count.

    If you look at the 3rd graph here http://janne.coreside.com/mechanics/defensive you can see visually what the difference in stacking each stat makes to 'effective HP'.

    For tanks its good for them to stack def as things swap over around 25k def, but as we dps'ers don't go that high we're best with as much as possible in HP rather than def.
  • sundance777
    sundance777 Member Posts: 1,097 Arc User
    I just wear the defense guild boon for PVE, that plus whatever my gear does puts me just above 8K defense. I will still die from time to time if I can't get over to hit something or some other odd situations where things line up just right. I usually hit stealth and then ITC for the initial approach and then use them as a blood bag with life-steal to keep me alive and I am often times the last one standing in a fight. Rolling and saving stealth/ITC for the right times (like when orcus roars and raises his hands) helps too and you learn which red's you need to move for over time....

    In MSVA you really need to stay more in the middle inside the protection and stay off the ice that people put on the floor, that stuff hurts!
    TR - Sun: 16000 IL
    OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL

    Casual Dailies
  • araxelven
    araxelven Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    I used to have this problem as well... I guess most of us have to go throught this. Most TR builds out there suggest focusing on Deflect, but for me that wasn't quite right because even with high deflect you're still dead almost half the time you take a big hit. I did the following:
    • Use a Soulforged (lesser is enough) as your armor enchant
    • For defensive stats, boons and equipment I choose HP > Lifesteal > Deflect > Defense
    • I use Radiants (and now Demonics) in my TR's defensive slots and Vicious in my companion's
    • I use the newer armor chests that have much higher AC than normal TR armor (Historian's Regalia, Executioner's Black Attire)
    The strategy here is that in order to maximise your efectiveness as a TR (in other words, your DPS), the most important thing is to STAY ALIVE. Don't hesitate to break off your attacks to dodge a red circle. I don't even use ITC. My equipment and enchants give me about 140k HP, which is enough to avoid most one-shots, and I then dodge to get away and then use Cloud of Steel to continue dealing damage and to proc my lifesteal, which is at about 35% with high severity as well. As soon as you're back to 100% you can dodge back in or use Lurkers to get back in melee.

    Using this strategy I'll usually outlast most of the others even in failed mSVA runs.
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    if you want to survive orcus hands up aoe.. use the daily bloodbath.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • lordseth1985
    lordseth1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 312 Arc User
    I always focus on Deflect+Hp. On end-game content, almost everything can one shot you, even with high defense, but at least with deflect we have a chance to survive.
    Seth QuickHands - Rogue, natural born assassin.
  • moltenperezoso
    moltenperezoso Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    Simple solution, learn the mechanics better, for each dungeon. Learn to dodge and roll, and anticipate. Not being sarcastic at all here. It will come with experience. One of the hard lessons I learned switching from a Tankadin to a TR was to dodge and avoid , and learn the mechanics. Currently pulling my hair out on Master Spellplague (PC version) but will figure it out since I have only run it once :P From one TR to another, best of luck.
  • sirjimbofrancis
    sirjimbofrancis Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Besides the excellent advice everyone has given here, you might try a Foehammer's elixir. That adds a small amount to your deflect and and extra 10% to deflect severity, making ITC even better.
    Lilia Drakon - PVE Executioner TR
    She Looked Lvl 18

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  • spelldazer
    spelldazer Member Posts: 314 Arc User
    My experience has been that you will always get 1shot by Orcus when you get aggro or you stay in range of his splat attack when support fails (no bubble or AA, for example). If you run with a paper tank or you are the last man standing, a tanky companion will help confuse Orcus and keep you alive. I tend to run with higher hp for runs with possible 1shots. HP boon if you have it or food buffs. Using better AC armor is really helpful, as others mentioned.

    It's worth mentioning that you and other party members can equip powers that will make enemies deal less damage.

    Anyway, are you getting killed through a Soulforge? Are you getting killed through a *stealthed* ITC? (Regular ITC is useless.)

    TRs aren't fighters. We don't generate temp hp like they do. We do burst damage in very short, 4-6 second windows of opportunity. Timing is everything, both when to engage and when to disengage and retreat to safety. Until you get near bis, you will have to dodge and ITC quite a bit.
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Before itc was need we could pop it and revive people in lava and all sorts of good things.. but now that itc has been nerfed you need to combiNE itc with shadow demon active to survive most huge attacks
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • cityboy71#5655
    cityboy71#5655 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    High hit points along with the deflect and life steal..... my TR is City Boy on ps4 and my at rest hit points is 171k....i rarely get one shot anymore.
  • thornbr1nger
    thornbr1nger Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    I use radiant on Defensive slots and vicious on companion defensive slots. I stack any boon I can that has lifesteal along with the life steal feat from scoundrel tree. Armor wise dreadnaught body from valindras (most power on a TR chest piece along with high life steal and higher A.C.) and bloodstained shirt. When I'm in party I swap stronghold boon from life steal to defense for final boss.
  • moltenperezoso
    moltenperezoso Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    My suggestion is use Black ice enchantments for offense and defense on Companion. Run Fire Archon :) I use Guild defense boon, and run darks on my toons defense slots. I also (on the harder dungeons) run Foehammer's, Prime Rin, Superior Elixir of Accuracy, and Elixir Of Correlian's Blood. For starters :) It all helps, but also remember you are a TR, and your skill is dodging. Try to do your best to avoid attacks first. Good luck !
  • rjc9000
    rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User
    Now, as a TR n00b, I don't think I can say much which hasn't been said, but...

    Here is some time-honored advice which has won tournaments and slayed gods.