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Help on PVP as a CW, especially against GFs
vordayn
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
Hello fellow CWs,
I did not know whether to post this in the PVP or CW Library section, but I wanted advice from other CWs that PVP on how to improve my playstyle, specifically, how to combat other classes especially the GF. I usually solo queue, so this is from a solo-pvp perspective.
I understand the role of the CW is primarily as a controller, and secondarily a striker, and I try to do this during matches (however much repel pisses off certain classes, it’s probably one of the most powerful of our control encounters at the moment, as Entangling Force is too slow and doesn’t last long enough and there are better options, and Icy Terrain is limited to close combat. Shard of Avalanche is useless and has been for a while so I gather). I’ve tried the Oppressor path, but found that I couldn’t control very well especially against those with T.EB, plus I couldn’t make any kills to clear nodes, so I didn’t enjoy it much. My guild does not have the HP boon, so that limits my durability. Hence, I opted for a debuffer/striker to be able to clear nodes (sometimes!) and help out teammates.
I am going to describe how I fight against certain classes - any pointers are welcome! I put my odds of winning against certain classes of similar IL from my experience.
Here is a run-down of my PVP CW currently:
MoF: Rene capstone (to buff/heal team chaotically) with thaum for spell-twisting
WE: T. Feytouched
AE: T. Elven Battle
Artifact: Wheel of Elements
Armor: Prestige
Tenacity: 2.837
IL: ~12.5k
Power: 21K
Armor Penetration: 10K
Recovery: 4K
Lifesteal percentage: 30%
HP: 138K
Movement: 7K + Gladiator’s guile x2 (diminishing returns on 2nd)
Class features: Swathe of Destruction, Combustive Action (chosen for debuffs to help team)
Encounters: Shield (Mastery), Disintegrate, Icy Rays, Repel
Dailies: Ice Knife, Oppressive Force
At-Wills: Scorching burst, Ray of Frost
Playstyle against classes:
CW
1 vs 1: I try to repel to interrupt their casting as quickly as possible, and frequently dodge to avoid being controlled, proned (with Ice Knife) or hit. Against Oppressors, I can generally whittle down their HP faster than they can mine; their control isn’t that effective as I wear T.EB, but their repel pushes me farther away. Against strong hitting SS mages, it is a combination of who can control and/or dps quicker that usually comes out the victor.
Odds of winning against CWs 1vs1: 50/50
Group setting: I usually try to take them out first (unless there is a healing cleric around) as they dish out a lot of damage but are squishy.
TR
1 vs 1: I generally have a sense of where they are as they approach a node - I stay away in the farthest edge of the node and see when it stops turning blue to know that they are on the node. Most open with a smoke bomb (and follow up with SE when you are disabled) so when I know they are about to drop a bomb, I dodge away and open up with my encounters. SE has a characteristic sound that I listen for and time my dodges accordingly. TRs often dodge a lot too, so my initial encounters may not hit. Repel (when it connects) is useful to keep them away, and icy rays also can root them for a moment so that I can land Disintegrate or Ice Knife. Scorching burst helps apply a DoT (and debuff) which is useful to reduce their stealth meter.
Odds of winning against TRs 1v1: 40/60
Group setting: Their smoke bomb disables effectively in group settings, so I try to keep a wide berth in close combat. If there isn’t a CW or DC around, I try to take them out first as they can reduce my HP to less than half with SE.
HR
1 vs 1: Combat HRs are tricky due to their piercing damage as they can drain my HP faster than the above two classes. It is imperative that I avoid their plant growth at all times, and dodge out of their AoEs as quickly as possible, or I die within seconds. Without T.EB, I would be dead in an instant due to their control. If I can keep them far away enough with repel, and land a few good hard hits, then I can usually survive to harm them enough that they disengage and run off with ghost walk. It is rare that I am able to kill good HRs because of this. Chaotic growth (when it procs), the Healing from Wheel of Elements, and Mount Healing bonuses are what keep me long enough to survive their encounters.
Odds of winning against HRs 1v1: 30/70
Group setting: Again, I have to stay out of their AoEs otherwise I die very quickly. This usually means I have to fight outside (or on the edge of) nodes. If they team up with another daze/rooting/prone heavy class then they (or their dps teammate) usually kill me quickly.
DCs
1 vs 1: Healing DCs in astral shield are very survivable. I try to repel them from their shield once they finish dodging around, and once dislodged, I root them with Icy Rays and hit them with Disintegrate, Ice Knife, or try to freeze them with Ray of Frost. As they are relatively squishy outside of their shield, they do not survive too long 1 vs 1. Righteous DCs try to stun me with Break the Spirit, but with T.EB this doesn’t last long. As Righteous are not as tanky as their healing counterparts, they do not last as long as Faithful DCs.
Odds of winning against DCs 1v1: 80/20
Group setting: They bring powerful healing/buffs to their teammates and are difficult to kill because they dodge around so much. If a Faithful DC partners up with a strong teammate of any class, then they both become very survivable. They are usually my first target when in a group fight, because unless I kill the DC quickly, then their group usually comes out the victor. If there is a Faithful DC on both sides, then the group that wins is usually the one with the DC that survives.
SW
1 vs 1: There are not many SWs in PvP, and the ones that play well are usually near or at BIS. Soulbinder SWs are very survivable once they build up their sparks. My aim is to kill them quicker than they can kill me and try to do this before they build up too many sparks. BIS SWs are a force to be reckoned with, and I do not try to engage them 1 vs 1, but I can sometimes hold them off a node long enough until a teammate comes along. Repel is very useful to dislodge them off Pillar of Power, and to interrupt their casting.
Odds of winning against SWs 1vs1: 60/40
Group setting: They usually stay away the farthest so targeting them is trickier. They are on the same level on my ‘hit list’ as CWs as they hit hard, but can also be squishy (BIS excepted).
GWF
1 vs 1: Repel is the CWs friend against GWFs, and although it doesn’t hit when they are Sprinting, or during Unstoppable, once they finish these then I repel them far enough to safely land encounters. BIS GWFs hit hard, and can usually kill me in 1-2 rotations if they successfully prone me (with encounters / artifacts / mounts). Some GWFs I cannot kill, as they are so tanky, with high HP pools, lifesteal or healing boons/powers/artifacts, and also Sprint to run away when they are nearly dead. The best I can do against these GWFs is to survive long enough to repel them enough that they get bored and leave me alone.
Odds of winning against a good GWF 1v1: 20/80
Group setting: If they get close enough, they will kill me quickly. However, I try to kill them after the other classes because they are tougher to kill, and I can dodge around them.
OP
1 vs 1: If I am able to control the OP long enough to whittle their HP, then I might able to kill them. Healadins are difficult to kill as they just heal to full HP periodically. Protector HPs are fairly tanky. Either way, it will take a long time to kill them 1vs1.
Odds of winning against an OP: 10/90 (but then again they may not be able to kill me)
Group setting: They can make or break the team’s success. While not as good as GFs in a group setting, as their damage is far less, they can control the battlefield well due to their tankiness and buffing /healing capabilities.
GF
1 vs 1: GFs are the only class I have no defence or answer to. Their shield is impenetrable with my control or damaging powers. They usually advance with their shield up until they open up with their prone powers, and once I am prone I am down long enough (even with T.EB) that I cannot dodge or avoid their hard hitting encounters. Good GFs, even those of 1-2K less Item level, can kill me in 1-2 rotations. BIS GFs do it in 1 rotation. Shield on mastery does nothing, as the first few hits practically take it away, so they are able to land their 3rd or 4th hit to maximum effect. I cannot 1 vs 1 GFs, and am only able to run away and hope to repel them if their shield is down, which is not often. Their high HP pool, DR mitigation and Shield mechanic makes them difficult for me to kill, and will take me at least 3-4 of my rotations to actually kill them if their shield is down. They are currently the only class I do not try to engage.
Odds of winning against a GF 1v1: 0/100 to 5/95
Group setting: If I am already proned/dazed/rooted, then GFs can usually kill me as they have the highest burst damaging encounters. As they are also able to prone, in most group settings the GFs will dominate the field.
I did not know whether to post this in the PVP or CW Library section, but I wanted advice from other CWs that PVP on how to improve my playstyle, specifically, how to combat other classes especially the GF. I usually solo queue, so this is from a solo-pvp perspective.
I understand the role of the CW is primarily as a controller, and secondarily a striker, and I try to do this during matches (however much repel pisses off certain classes, it’s probably one of the most powerful of our control encounters at the moment, as Entangling Force is too slow and doesn’t last long enough and there are better options, and Icy Terrain is limited to close combat. Shard of Avalanche is useless and has been for a while so I gather). I’ve tried the Oppressor path, but found that I couldn’t control very well especially against those with T.EB, plus I couldn’t make any kills to clear nodes, so I didn’t enjoy it much. My guild does not have the HP boon, so that limits my durability. Hence, I opted for a debuffer/striker to be able to clear nodes (sometimes!) and help out teammates.
I am going to describe how I fight against certain classes - any pointers are welcome! I put my odds of winning against certain classes of similar IL from my experience.
Here is a run-down of my PVP CW currently:
MoF: Rene capstone (to buff/heal team chaotically) with thaum for spell-twisting
WE: T. Feytouched
AE: T. Elven Battle
Artifact: Wheel of Elements
Armor: Prestige
Tenacity: 2.837
IL: ~12.5k
Power: 21K
Armor Penetration: 10K
Recovery: 4K
Lifesteal percentage: 30%
HP: 138K
Movement: 7K + Gladiator’s guile x2 (diminishing returns on 2nd)
Class features: Swathe of Destruction, Combustive Action (chosen for debuffs to help team)
Encounters: Shield (Mastery), Disintegrate, Icy Rays, Repel
Dailies: Ice Knife, Oppressive Force
At-Wills: Scorching burst, Ray of Frost
Playstyle against classes:
CW
1 vs 1: I try to repel to interrupt their casting as quickly as possible, and frequently dodge to avoid being controlled, proned (with Ice Knife) or hit. Against Oppressors, I can generally whittle down their HP faster than they can mine; their control isn’t that effective as I wear T.EB, but their repel pushes me farther away. Against strong hitting SS mages, it is a combination of who can control and/or dps quicker that usually comes out the victor.
Odds of winning against CWs 1vs1: 50/50
Group setting: I usually try to take them out first (unless there is a healing cleric around) as they dish out a lot of damage but are squishy.
TR
1 vs 1: I generally have a sense of where they are as they approach a node - I stay away in the farthest edge of the node and see when it stops turning blue to know that they are on the node. Most open with a smoke bomb (and follow up with SE when you are disabled) so when I know they are about to drop a bomb, I dodge away and open up with my encounters. SE has a characteristic sound that I listen for and time my dodges accordingly. TRs often dodge a lot too, so my initial encounters may not hit. Repel (when it connects) is useful to keep them away, and icy rays also can root them for a moment so that I can land Disintegrate or Ice Knife. Scorching burst helps apply a DoT (and debuff) which is useful to reduce their stealth meter.
Odds of winning against TRs 1v1: 40/60
Group setting: Their smoke bomb disables effectively in group settings, so I try to keep a wide berth in close combat. If there isn’t a CW or DC around, I try to take them out first as they can reduce my HP to less than half with SE.
HR
1 vs 1: Combat HRs are tricky due to their piercing damage as they can drain my HP faster than the above two classes. It is imperative that I avoid their plant growth at all times, and dodge out of their AoEs as quickly as possible, or I die within seconds. Without T.EB, I would be dead in an instant due to their control. If I can keep them far away enough with repel, and land a few good hard hits, then I can usually survive to harm them enough that they disengage and run off with ghost walk. It is rare that I am able to kill good HRs because of this. Chaotic growth (when it procs), the Healing from Wheel of Elements, and Mount Healing bonuses are what keep me long enough to survive their encounters.
Odds of winning against HRs 1v1: 30/70
Group setting: Again, I have to stay out of their AoEs otherwise I die very quickly. This usually means I have to fight outside (or on the edge of) nodes. If they team up with another daze/rooting/prone heavy class then they (or their dps teammate) usually kill me quickly.
DCs
1 vs 1: Healing DCs in astral shield are very survivable. I try to repel them from their shield once they finish dodging around, and once dislodged, I root them with Icy Rays and hit them with Disintegrate, Ice Knife, or try to freeze them with Ray of Frost. As they are relatively squishy outside of their shield, they do not survive too long 1 vs 1. Righteous DCs try to stun me with Break the Spirit, but with T.EB this doesn’t last long. As Righteous are not as tanky as their healing counterparts, they do not last as long as Faithful DCs.
Odds of winning against DCs 1v1: 80/20
Group setting: They bring powerful healing/buffs to their teammates and are difficult to kill because they dodge around so much. If a Faithful DC partners up with a strong teammate of any class, then they both become very survivable. They are usually my first target when in a group fight, because unless I kill the DC quickly, then their group usually comes out the victor. If there is a Faithful DC on both sides, then the group that wins is usually the one with the DC that survives.
SW
1 vs 1: There are not many SWs in PvP, and the ones that play well are usually near or at BIS. Soulbinder SWs are very survivable once they build up their sparks. My aim is to kill them quicker than they can kill me and try to do this before they build up too many sparks. BIS SWs are a force to be reckoned with, and I do not try to engage them 1 vs 1, but I can sometimes hold them off a node long enough until a teammate comes along. Repel is very useful to dislodge them off Pillar of Power, and to interrupt their casting.
Odds of winning against SWs 1vs1: 60/40
Group setting: They usually stay away the farthest so targeting them is trickier. They are on the same level on my ‘hit list’ as CWs as they hit hard, but can also be squishy (BIS excepted).
GWF
1 vs 1: Repel is the CWs friend against GWFs, and although it doesn’t hit when they are Sprinting, or during Unstoppable, once they finish these then I repel them far enough to safely land encounters. BIS GWFs hit hard, and can usually kill me in 1-2 rotations if they successfully prone me (with encounters / artifacts / mounts). Some GWFs I cannot kill, as they are so tanky, with high HP pools, lifesteal or healing boons/powers/artifacts, and also Sprint to run away when they are nearly dead. The best I can do against these GWFs is to survive long enough to repel them enough that they get bored and leave me alone.
Odds of winning against a good GWF 1v1: 20/80
Group setting: If they get close enough, they will kill me quickly. However, I try to kill them after the other classes because they are tougher to kill, and I can dodge around them.
OP
1 vs 1: If I am able to control the OP long enough to whittle their HP, then I might able to kill them. Healadins are difficult to kill as they just heal to full HP periodically. Protector HPs are fairly tanky. Either way, it will take a long time to kill them 1vs1.
Odds of winning against an OP: 10/90 (but then again they may not be able to kill me)
Group setting: They can make or break the team’s success. While not as good as GFs in a group setting, as their damage is far less, they can control the battlefield well due to their tankiness and buffing /healing capabilities.
GF
1 vs 1: GFs are the only class I have no defence or answer to. Their shield is impenetrable with my control or damaging powers. They usually advance with their shield up until they open up with their prone powers, and once I am prone I am down long enough (even with T.EB) that I cannot dodge or avoid their hard hitting encounters. Good GFs, even those of 1-2K less Item level, can kill me in 1-2 rotations. BIS GFs do it in 1 rotation. Shield on mastery does nothing, as the first few hits practically take it away, so they are able to land their 3rd or 4th hit to maximum effect. I cannot 1 vs 1 GFs, and am only able to run away and hope to repel them if their shield is down, which is not often. Their high HP pool, DR mitigation and Shield mechanic makes them difficult for me to kill, and will take me at least 3-4 of my rotations to actually kill them if their shield is down. They are currently the only class I do not try to engage.
Odds of winning against a GF 1v1: 0/100 to 5/95
Group setting: If I am already proned/dazed/rooted, then GFs can usually kill me as they have the highest burst damaging encounters. As they are also able to prone, in most group settings the GFs will dominate the field.
Vordon CW ‡ Vordayn DC ‡ Axel Wolfric GWF ‡ Logain SW ‡ Gawyn GF ‡ Galad OP ‡ Aspen Darkfire HR ‡ Min TR
1
Comments
While I am able to survive mostly against HRs and TRs, dislodge and kill DCs, have a slightly better success rate against SWs, have an equal fight against CWs, and annoy OPs or GWFs long enough that they leave me alone, I cannot survive against GFs. GFs Shield mechanic + inherent tankiness, prone capability coupled with their high burst damage make them the clear bane of my CW.
I am asking any CWs out there if there is a way to not only survive, but hope to kill GFs. If there isn’t, I probably won’t change classes, as I don’t want to go through the process of collecting boons/PVP armor/refining artifacts again, plus I enjoy the CW playstyle - but just not against the GF class at the moment.
However, I would have to give up an encounter to use it, but I find Icy Rays (for the rooting and to apply chill) more useful in terms of utility, and repel even more so. If there aren't any classes in the opponent's team that can be affected much by repel, then I would swap it for RoE, but that is rare.
It hardly does anything to GFs and GWFs to mitigate their damage or defense, so it's not that useful against them I've found.
where are your mount insignia bonuses listed what are your ring your main hand and offhand powers etc etc etc I dont even know where to begin with you sOoooooooooooooo much information is missing .
you should be slotting in chilling presence situational especially in 1 v 1
YOUR HITPOINTS ARE WAY TO LOW AS TO BE LAUGHABLE REGARDLESS OF GUILD HITPOINT BOON
EXPECT A MAX ENDGAME CW TO HAVE 230K-250K HITPOINTS
WITH VIP / GUILD FOOD AND REGULAR FOOD BUFF AND CAPRESE YOU CAN EASILY ADD ANOTHER 15K TO YOUR HITPOINTS
ASSUMING YOU ARE NOT BEING HARD TARGET LOCKED YOU CAN JUMP TELEPORT DIRECTLY OVER THE GFS HEAD BEHIND HIS SHIELD AND CAST WHILE IN MID AIR GOING OVER HIS HEAD ,.,,
ALSO OGMAS ARTEFACT TO GIVE CC RESISTANCE /BREAK / PRONE RESISTANCE ... THEN HE IS VULNERABLE BRIEFLY
THE NEW FEY WEAPONS DO EXTRA DAMAGE TO SHIELDED OPPONENTS AND GFS ARE STARTING TO CRY CALLING EXPLOIT LOL
https://youtube.com/watch?v=bail_dyDpyo
> @kalina311 your comment regarding new weapons against shhielded oppoenents is very interesting, please can you elaborate on how they work?
>
> I've seen the Mirage Weapons in action. They summon clones which attack the target at all sides (does little damage, but bypasses shield I guess?) and also does a +10% damage against characters with shield or temp HP (so Guardian Fighters and Paladins). Not sure how that could be overpowered though, still working on getting my set.
"Overpowered" in this case just means it's making shield users uncomfortable that their safe space is being invaded. Bunch of ninnies if you ask me.
PS4 characters:
Brie Liadon, Shotgun Wizard
Disposable Hero, Kidney removal technician
Valorous Cake, Armored pastry defender
Ginger Christ needs no introductions
40-45% offensive mode
this is achieved by switching guild boons and artifacts / drinking different potions offensive potions / vs defensive potions ..on the fly ..... not by dying and switching specs at the campfire
THE illusions do 50% of cw damage when they proc for other reasons.