How are the updated weapon enchants?

brick · February 2017

For those that have access to them on the PTR, how are they? I'm currently using lightning, and i enjoy it for what it is. Is there a non vorpal king among the new ones coming?

raymond00713 · February 2017

Was very curious about this as well. I sold my trans vorpal and bought a trans fey on xbox. Trying to get ahead of the game and came out a million ad richer. What is the best one now for gfs?

brick · February 2017

I'm not sure, but I'm seeing (i could be completely off here) that bilethorn is doing work on the pc. Not sure how it will be for gfs though

rjc9000 · February 2017

Well, I just had help from @flensburger99 in figuring out Holy Avenger. I can confirm that T. Holy Avenger sucks for a DPS GF.

@thefabricant /Sharpegghead had a post on Bilethorn for a DPS GF. I believe that due to GF not multiproccing somethings, the DPS GF gets a bigger benefit from Vorpal than Bilethorn on average.

Here's the exact post:

thefabricant said:
... realistically, vorp is not a 28.57% dps increase, that is the, "ideal" situation. In a more likely set of circumstances it is more like 20-25%.

For GF, if you assume the skills used for dps are Crushing Surge, WMS, Griffon's Wrath, Anvil of Doom, ITF, Knight's Challenge, Villian's Menace, Enforced Threat and Knee Breaker, you should find the following:

Assumed Conditions rank 4 powers, Enchantment in question is Bilethorn and average weapon damage of 2056.5.

Knee Breaker: (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*(1.619996132+0.5399992372*14)) = 0.04018637692, which is roughly a 4% damage increase.

Crushing Surge: (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*1.3*(1.593592961*2+1.991996272)/3) = 0.164375679, which is roughly a 16.4% damage increase.

Weapon Master's Strike: (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*1.3*(0.8000009056+0.5999991581)) = 0.20269798835, which is roughly a 20.2% damage increase.

Griffon's Wrath: (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*1.3*(2.879997176)) = 0.09853384544, which is roughly a 9.85% damage increase.

Anvil (Above 50% HP): (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*1.3*(4.319990693)) = 0.0656893074, which is roughly a 6.5% damage increase.

Enforced Threat: (0.8*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*1.3*(2.700001789)) = 0.21020519154, which is roughly a 21% damage increase.

Villian's Menace: (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*(2.399998361)) = 0.15371275313, which is roughly a 15.4% damage increase.

ITF does not proc weapon enchantments or deal damage.

Knight's Challenge does not deal damage, but procs bilethorn once.

The above should give you some idea for GF. It is interesting to note that GF WMS works differently from GWF WMS and does not proc enchants twice. However, Enforced Threat does proc weapon enchants twice.

Also, just to clarify, I am not saying Bilethorn is best, I am simply using it in these examples because I cba to test every enchant on every class and would rather compare a single enchant to vorp and the 1 I decided to test on other classes is bilethorn. Another enchant may very well be better than bile/vorp, but you would need to check that yourself.

Also, the bottom part in bold is super important. This is simply a comparison of Bile vs. Vorpal.

rjc9000 · February 2017

Gahhhh stupid automods. What if I like having long posts with lots and lots of edits. Let me try this again.

@flensburger99 helped me out with testing Holy Avenger tonight at Dragonflight. We found that only 8% of my GF's DPS came from a T. Holy Avenger. So Holy Avenger seems like a bust.

Here's @thefabricant (Sharpegghead's) post from the preview thread comparing Vorpal vs. Bilethorn.

thefabricant said:
... Realistically, vorp is not a 28.57% dps increase, that is the, "ideal" situation. In a more likely set of circumstances it is more like 20-25%.

For GF, if you assume the skills used for dps are Crushing Surge, WMS, Griffon's Wrath, Anvil of Doom, ITF, Knight's Challenge, Villian's Menace, Enforced Threat and Knee Breaker, you should find the following:

Assumed Conditions rank 4 powers, Enchantment in question is Bilethorn and average weapon damage of 2056.5.

Knee Breaker: (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*(1.619996132+0.5399992372*14)) = 0.04018637692, which is roughly a 4% damage increase.

Crushing Surge: (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*1.3*(1.593592961*2+1.991996272)/3) = 0.164375679, which is roughly a 16.4% damage increase.

Weapon Master's Strike: (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*1.3*(0.8000009056+0.5999991581)) = 0.20269798835, which is roughly a 20.2% damage increase.

Griffon's Wrath: (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*1.3*(2.879997176)) = 0.09853384544, which is roughly a 9.85% damage increase.

Anvil (Above 50% HP): (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*1.3*(4.319990693)) = 0.0656893074, which is roughly a 6.5% damage increase.

Enforced Threat: (0.8*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*1.3*(2.700001789)) = 0.21020519154, which is roughly a 21% damage increase.

Villian's Menace: (0.4*2056.5)/((173.31+2056.5)*(2.399998361)) = 0.15371275313, which is roughly a 15.4% damage increase.

ITF does not proc weapon enchantments or deal damage.

Knight's Challenge does not deal damage, but procs bilethorn once.

The above should give you some idea for GF. It is interesting to note that GF WMS works differently from GWF WMS and does not proc enchants twice. However, Enforced Threat does proc weapon enchants twice.

Also, just to clarify, I am not saying Bilethorn is best, I am simply using it in these examples because I cba to test every enchant on every class and would rather compare a single enchant to vorp and the 1 I decided to test on other classes is bilethorn. Another enchant may very well be better than bile/vorp, but you would need to check that yourself.

The bottom part in bold is super important. I have a bunch of Sharop's tools to test, but I really don't feel like practicing my algebra at the moment (I got Pre-Calc for doing that).

In general, due to the way the GF fights, the GF will tend to benefit from the weapon enchants which have good weapon damage.

Those would be Terror and Flaming (and HA, but we confirmed that HA is questionable on a GF).

brick · February 2017

I like terror and flaming. Currently using a lightning. What do you think going into mod 11 for console guys would be be better for gf? The lightning,terror or flaming?

brick · February 2017

I'll most likely stick with the trans lightning. The aoe procs, the cdr, and the single target damage suite me well. And if it's getting buffed then I'll just be happier

rjc9000 · February 2017

brick#6890 said:
I like terror and flaming. Currently using a lightning. What do you think going into mod 11 for console guys would be be better for gf? The lightning,terror or flaming?

I haven't checked whether both are good or not, because I'm lazy and don't feel like practicing my algebra.

And we can't extrapolate what's good or not from GWFs, since some GF procs are different from the GWF.

brick#6890 said:
I'll most likely stick with the trans lightning. The aoe procs, the cdr, and the single target damage suite me well. And if it's getting buffed then I'll just be happier

While Lightning's DPS will be buffed, I doubt that its going to be our best DPS option. Its procs benefit most from attacks which hit many times, but the GF primarily DPSes from slow, but hard hitting attacks.

I know @checkmatein3 is sticking with his Lightning, but Behe isn't based around DPSing like I am. He's more of a jack of all trades Conqueror, putting tanking and team protection first with some chip damage. He's using Lightning for its aggro value.

brick · February 2017

That's exactly how i play my tank. Tank first, dps second. So that's good to know that other similar builds are sticking with lightning.

dread4moor · March 2017

Playing with Trans lightning for AOE/chain agro effect. Damage was boosted , but still not comparable to Vorpal, Dread or Bilethorn (those three better for a DPS-minded GF).
For support/buff/debuff GFs Frost, Plaguefire (still has a bug to be fixed) and terror are good "economy" choices.

Retested Holy Avenger. Still bad. If you have even a modest amount of base DR then HA is not worth it. They just can't seem to get this iconic enchantment to work in a useful way.

Edit: ... and Feytouched still viable for buff/debuff GF

wizardlvl80 · March 2017

Can someone tell me what is better for GF tactician debuff purposes?

1. Plaguefire
2. Frost
3. Terror

rjc9000 · March 2017

wizardlvl80#5963 said:
Can someone tell me what is better for GF tactician debuff purposes?

1. Plaguefire
2. Frost
3. Terror

In Mod 11, Tactician GFs have 3 primary options:

Frost: Great damage increasing debuff (~7.5% uncapped on Level 73 enemies), inaddition to a enemy damage debuff. The uptime isn't amazing, but Frost is a great jack of all trades Tactician enchantment (still my personal choice of Tactician gear).

Plaguefire: A great damage increasing debuff (~6.75% on Level 73 enemies). It technically has a better uptime than Frost, on the condition you can put 3 stacks of Plaguefire on enemies. This can be extremely easy to do or extremely hard to do, depending on the boss fight.

Feytouched: If you like reducing enemy damage, Feytouched is king. If you don't care about reducing enemy damage, don't bother with Feytouched.

How are the updated weapon enchants?

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