New ideas about [Shocking execution]

dolrey · February 2017

Hello

Already I had wrote many threads about TR's daily power [Shocking execution] where I argued position that it's basic damage should be reduced or action points generation should be nerfed to make it not so easy to use. But here I would like to view at this problem from other side and add some another arguments.

1) The first problem that I would like to discuss are "one-hits" and ability of well equipped TRs to easily deal about 180k or even more than 200k+ of unresistable damage. It isn't a combo and there are no stacks you just came to your target (it would be better if it would be under control of your ally) and just press 1 or 2. It is "free kill" and it doesn't metter how tanky your target is.
2) The second point that I see is how often TR can use [Shocking execution] with help of artifact [Sigil of the devoted] and with other mechanics. But I think that it isn't the problem with change that I would like to suggest in this thread.
3) Most part of TR's play in only one build focused on this daily power while other daily powers and mechanics are ignored.

So, in this thread I would like to approach these problems from the other side and to make an analogy with GF's skill [Anvil of doom].

I think most of us remember situation with this GF's skill before it's nerf when not so tanky characters had no chances to counter GF's combo of skills: ITF+BC+AoD. And as we know effect of [Anvil of doom] had been reworked from "burst" damage to damage over time when GF's target is at low health. And now Gf's target has a bit more time to react to GF's damage.

With [Shocking execution] situation is the same. And I would like to ask to rework part of damage of [Shocking execution] to damage over the time. I think that about 60-70% of it's damage should be done instantly and the other part should be done for the next 2-3 seconds. There is need to say that damage still will ignore all defence.

So, let's understand how this change will affect this daily skill.
1) If TR's target isn't so tanky it still will be defeated becauase damage still will be very high and not tanky target has no abilityes to protect itself from damage over time.
2) If TR's target is tank then damage still will be very very dangerous but there will be a chance for tank to do something.
3) Also this change will give to TR one new ability associated with damage over time effect. I mean after this change if your target block or dodge [Shocking execution] then your target will not be able to counterattack you immediately. Because if for example tank turn off his shield he will get a lot of piercing damage from damage over time effect. And you will be able to deal more pressure on your target.
4) And I hope that change like this can make other play styles for TR more actual. TR is very interesting class and it is very regrettable that a lot of it's mechanics are dead.

So, you see that in this thread I'm not asking only about nerf of [Shocking execution] because also I wrote Idea about new mechanic that will be useful for TR. So, I hope everyone will be happy

Thank you for your attention and sorry for my english

jonkoca · February 2017

I get one-two shot far more often by GFs than I ever do by SE tbh. Usually SE just tickles. Unless I'm doing something dumb like sitting on my mount on mid checking AH sales.

demonmonger · February 2017

I also get one shot by GF's more than about 10 times more than I get one shotted by a TR.
We have gone over this argument many times now.
Trickster Rogue is supposed to have this ability to do huge burst damage.
Changing it to damage over time will not be good at all.
Why?
DC and other classes that rapidly heal will never die from a TR .. ever.

Stop with the ideas to change our skills or basic D&D character types in game.
Accept this is how the game is and work as a team to overcome your enemies.

Good luck..

Unknown · February 2017

This content has been removed.

waywardwizard · February 2017

dolrey said:

demonmonger said:
I also get one shot by GF's more than about 10 times more than I get one shotted by a TR.
We have gone over this argument many times now.
Trickster Rogue is supposed to have this ability to do huge burst damage.
Changing it to damage over time will not be good at all.
Why?
DC and other classes that rapidly heal will never die from a TR .. ever.

Stop with the ideas to change our skills or basic D&D character types in game.
Accept this is how the game is and work as a team to overcome your enemies.

Good luck..
This thread is for TR's [Shocking execution]. Not for GF's one hits. I mean I'm not think that it is good argument "there is another problem, so the first problem shouldn't be decided". In my previous threads about GF's damage GFs have been writing same things about HRs or TRs. So, following this logic no problem will be decided.

Also I would like to write that I suggested to rework only 30-40% of SE's damage to damage over time. This means that if now you deal 200k damage then you will deal 120-140k damage instantly and the other 60-70k damage will be dealt in the next 2-3 seconds. You still will be able to finish your target but you will need to prepare to this and put down target's health to not full (maybe with help of your allies).

Ps: TR's passive is called [First strike] but not [First and last strike in this combat].

Unfortunately this is a complex problem and you cant just take 1 part of it and discuss it freely because things are interconnected. Its like quoting somebody's post sentence by sentence and thus losing the context of the whole. TR are the assassins, yet as people above have already stated its a tank(!) that does way more 1shots or 1 rotations and if you do escape his first there is a second and a third etc. On the other hand nearly all classes have means to escape/negate SE, GWF being the notable exception.

For example on one of my less geared alts (GF of 2.6 item level in warborn/prestige armor) I was able to fight 1x1 on a node with a 3.6 TR and I block all of his SE. He was winning of course by slowly draining my HP but there were no one shots and eventually my party member arrived and we won the node. If that was a 3.6 GF against me instead of the rogue Id be a goner way before any of my party would even think about coming to help me. So in essence one of the tanks is a way more efficient killer than the assassin. That is why people are on edge when someone mentions SE and starts developing these ideas about adjusting it.

deathklaat666 · February 2017

Its not shocking Execution causing the 180k+ hits... its the Class Feature First Strike thats Granting those big One shots, Ive hit One Shots with Lashing Blades 200-350k or Impact shots 70-100k with the same class feature damage before. especially on poorly geared or no Tenacity players

Unknown · February 2017

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ragequittingdc · February 2017

I haven't played my TR in a while but reduction to its one shot ability would make it practically useless for how I play, and I only even used it as is for pvp.

mamalion1234 · February 2017

dolrey said:
Hello Already I had wrote many threads about TR's daily power [Shocking execution] where I argued position that it's basic damage should be reduced or action points generation should be nerfed to make it not so easy to use. But here I would like to view at this problem from other side and add some another arguments.

1) The first problem that I would like to discuss are "one-hits" and ability of well equipped TRs to easily deal about 180k or even more than 200k+ of unresistable damage. It isn't a combo and there are no stacks you just came to your target (it would be better if it would be under control of your ally) and just press 1 or 2. It is "free kill" and it doesn't metter how tanky your target is.
2) The second point that I see is how often TR can use [Shocking execution] with help of artifact [Sigil of the devoted] and with other mechanics. But I think that it isn't the problem with change that I would like to suggest in this thread.
3) Most part of TR's play in only one build focused on this daily power while other daily powers and mechanics are ignored.

So, in this thread I would like to approach these problems from the other side and to make an analogy with GF's skill [Anvil of doom].

I think most of us remember situation with this GF's skill before it's nerf when not so tanky characters had no chances to counter GF's combo of skills: ITF+BC+AoD. And as we know effect of [Anvil of doom] had been reworked from "burst" damage to damage over time when GF's target is at low health. And now Gf's target has a bit more time to react to GF's damage.

With [Shocking execution] situation is the same. And I would like to ask to rework part of damage of [Shocking execution] to damage over the time. I think that about 60-70% of it's damage should be done instantly and the other part should be done for the next 2-3 seconds. There is need to say that damage still will ignore all defence.

So, let's understand how this change will affect this daily skill.
1) If TR's target isn't so tanky it still will be defeated becauase damage still will be very high and not tanky target has no abilityes to protect itself from damage over time.
2) If TR's target is tank then damage still will be very very dangerous but there will be a chance for tank to do something.
3) Also this change will give to TR one new ability associated with damage over time effect. I mean after this change if your target block or dodge [Shocking execution] then your target will not be able to counterattack you immediately. Because if for example tank turn off his shield he will get a lot of piercing damage from damage over time effect. And you will be able to deal more pressure on your target.
4) And I hope that change like this can make other play styles for TR more actual. TR is very interesting class and it is very regrettable that a lot of it's mechanics are dead.

So, you see that in this thread I'm not asking only about nerf of [Shocking execution] because also I wrote Idea about new mechanic that will be useful for TR. So, I hope everyone will be happy

Thank you for your attention and sorry for my english

SO you suggest a even stronger shocking. YOU know that when you apply a dot even if the enemy dodge it he still get damage until it expires?

Unknown · February 2017

This content has been removed.

mamalion1234 · February 2017

dolrey said:

mamalion1234 said:

SO you suggest a even stronger shocking. YOU know that when you apply a dot even if the enemy dodge it he still get damage until it expires?
Yes, I understand this. And it is the reason why I suggested it. I mean usual nerf of damage can make this daily power too weak. Not every TR can one-hit top tanks (this mean that TR still need good equipment and right build). But existance of this ability to do this isn't so good in my opinion (even if you are top TR). I just want to say that the problem is only one-hits.

So, after this change it will be much harder to defeat instantly well equipped or tanky target. But if target has not enough defencive stats (such as hp, shields or self healing) and if your TR is equipped enough then target still will be defeated.

Also as you rightly pointed out [Shocking execution] will be more reliable to use with this damage over time effect. This mean that rework that I suggested will balance incredible numbers of burst damage that top TRs have but this change will help to new and not so well equipped players to still use [Shocking execution] relatively succesfully

I WANT to see that a stunned guardian fighter to bleed to death in seconds come on;p we Have seen enough from the hunter how a bleed can tick you to death. Even if i am a paladin the moment i will raise my hand to do the templar wrath piercing will burn down and the temp hp and the hp. AND WITH new weapon shields and temporary hp?:P haha;p

lorddread1977 · February 2017

I can't believe I am reading this........ The "TR" has been abused more then any other class out there.. if you (lets call this suggestion what it is) "NERF" S.E the trickster becomes worthless before reaching item level 3k+...... I have ground this game 6-8 hrs a day for 6 months to reach 3k and still don't put out the damage some of the other classes put out in pvp.. or pve.... if you go messing with the rouges •go to power• just to please a few people in pvp... the class will be doomed..... because we all know that ther is only 2 kinds of rouge.... one that has high hp and "0" damage output... and one with almost no hp but hits like a truck and lives to fight another day...JUST LEAVE THE TRICKSTER ALONE ALREADY

forumnamesuxs · February 2017

These last couple of weeks I've met a few TR's who are far more deadly than the one shot wonders ever were.
With the runic weapon damage, I suspect someone managed to pick up some old builds, and rework/tweak them in to something that works very well. That being said, I've taken hits by TR's that are far higher than the absolute max HP's available, even with Psion's/Brigandine armor, and tbh, it's kind of stupid.
Yes, the one shots/rotations are a problem, but Cryptic seem to enjoy how boring pug PvP is anyway, so who are we to deny them that?

I suggest you just give up.
They will do with PvP like they did with foundry. Ignore it until people give up and stop playing it, so they can finally stop spending resources on it.

New ideas about [Shocking execution]

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