Please delete "Path of the Blade" already. Most annoying and useless MMO move ever.

cyberdeth · January 2017

That move is just too annoying for words. The sound effect is like Chinese Water Torture. And the visual effects... it's a wonder that no one has complained of an epileptic seizure yet.

They didn't bother me initially. But after farming Artificer's Workshop for hours on end, that all changed. I had to disable the game's sound effects because that move had literally given me a headache. And I had to turn the brightness on my TV way down, and max out the contrast to compensate, because the blinking had also managed to give me a migraine. Now, if I can't stay in front of the person using it, I simply have to leave the dungeon.

I don't see why so many TRs continue to use it. Sure, I tried it when it unlocked for my TR. After it got me killed twice, I switched back to Blitz until Smoke Bomb unlocked, and never messed with it again. See, I can tell a move is bad when it gets me killed repeatedly. Especially when it aggros a bunch of extra mobs and only depletes about 5% of their health, leaving me fighting a bunch of extra mobs that are at nearly full health. That's a pretty obvious indicator that I don't want to keep using it. Why it wouldn't be equally obvious to other TR players is just baffling. Are these other TR players just gluttons for punishment or what?

Now, according to some of the Whisperknife players I've talked to, it actually does damage comparable to Smoke Bomb for them. So my opinion may be heavily based on a bug that only affects Master Infiltrator builds. I mean, damage comparable to SB sounds almost blasphemous to me. For those who have not played the MI paragon, allow me to elaborate. For us, Path takes so long to kill even a level 12 trash mob (at least 10 seconds) that you wonder if it's going to die of old age first. Whereas Smoke Bomb just melts them by comparison (while keeping them stunned at that).

"But it does damage while I dodge around" you say. Not enough to matter. Virtually every TR that I've successfully talked into switching moves (be it to Blitz, Blade Flurry, or Dazing Strike) has seen their damage improve. There is not one situation in which anyone I know has ever seen Path improve their damage stats. Not even Dragonflight.

The way I see it, this is an ill-designed move that would be far more fitting for a tank. I could see this being useful for helping the Oathbound Paladin obtain and hold aggro, for example (though only if the sound effect was deleted, and the visuals toned down). But for a DPS class, it's just far too much aggro, and far too little damage. I think TRs would be much better off with a more rogue-like move. Caltrops is never a bad idea. It worked great for ESO after all (not to mention good old Tenchu, using Caltrops in that series was always fun).

grandpaogre · January 2017

I used to run Path all the time because it's one of the few AoE powers for a TR. I'm not sure what I did build wise to have a different damage result then you but it helped me control mobs at certain levels. It would actually lock ads in place for a few seconds while the took damage. And for some of the bosses, it would lower their health while I got rid of all their ads. Ultimately, the reason I stop using it was the inability to turn it off. Nothing like go to the next place and aggroing everything along the way. As far as dying, the TR is just to squishy for an up in your face dps'er, in my opinion, until you can get the build to the right place.

Unknown · January 2017

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grandpaogre · January 2017

I've actually used 8 retraining tokens trying to figure out a build. And I did try whispering knife once. I think I would still be running it if I could turn it off. The biggest problem is that TR class itself. I even tried running everything to lower my threat level and was still aggroing everything. The TR is really reliant on a good tank to get and hold aggro before it joins combat. Well, good luck and I hope you figure it out.

ravenskya · January 2017

I always feel bad when I see people running Path of the Blade... I used it until I got something better. I'm currently a WK and I still don't use it. It's just not worth it - the damage is minimal compared to other things you could be using and it REALLY makes things around you angry.

bumarog · January 2017

I use it infiltrator scoundrel build it stuns/dazes stuff plus builds major ap, sorry you and others dont like it. Works good for my build

blur · January 2017

If it would deal more damage than Smoke Bomb it could be nice but as it currently is its not. I do like the animation move tho but thats all.

Unknown · January 2017

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demonmonger · January 2017

Path of blades has its place in game.
I use this skill usually to kill trash mobs or to kill monotes at range with other ranged encounters. Path of blades could use a damage buff.

tyrtallow · January 2017

You might want to do your research before bashing chains. It's an AoE encounter power (procs special feats, with a MUCH wider range than daunting), it's a form of control and it's one of the very few DC powers that grants AP while used in divine mode. See those Hallowed Grounds/Anointed Armies/etc dailies your DC is spamming for your party? Yeah, chains can help significantly with that.

If you don't want your DC to proc their debuff feats/spam their dailies/abuse Hastening Light then I would suggest just getting a paladin.

ravenskya · January 2017

A) Chains on a cleric is fine - I know several that will hop to chains when they discover that they are healing a group that seriously lacks DPS

B ) Path of the blade does have a place - I just found that there are far better methods to accomplish what it does. I wouldn't kick anyone for using it but I do feel bad for them. Also the fact that you can't turn it off - the number of times I've seen newbie TR's aggro the other group in the beginning of eLoL (you know the one that most people run past?) by having PoB still going from the first group and being unable to turn it off to sneak anywhere. If it had an on/off that would be better

micky1p00 · January 2017

hmm it had a use in PvP kicking other rogues out of stealth.

But what exact use it has in PvE? For everything it does, there is something else that does the same but better.

It has issues with weapon enchants (doesn't proc).

It has low damage. So low that it relatively tickles enemies, so they will die from laughter.

It's single target unless you use it from stealth, and then 3 targets... So it's useless as single target (read low damage above), and useless in AoE (low damage + low target cap)

It has a sound that can compete with shadowclad enchantment as a torture mechanism. (Now I know why those mobs wont actually laugh, but cringe instead)

Though the last time I've used it was in mod 4 or 5 when, for fun, I've kited the mobs in FH last boss, while the GF was on the boss. (reversed duites for fun)

But still, it probably competes with non working bait-and-switch as being totally useless. At least for MI-exe. Though somehow I'm sure even WK / scoundrel can find better things to use in that encounter slot (smoke, dazing, BF, blitz, WR, even impact shot at least fun, and you can throw spiders off a cliff with it).

Unknown · January 2017

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ghoulz66 · January 2017

Be nice if it proc'd WEs for the upcoming mod 11. A few CW powers get to synergize with secondary sources of damage.

demonmonger · January 2017

OK here it is...

Path of blades:
Weapon procs: vorpal, dread only (from stealth/critical)
Uses pve: for stealth tricksters adds more damage as you use gloaming cut without depleting stealth. Allows more ranged damage vs orcus while keeping you out of his max attack range. Luring monsters to one side then stealth to allow party to pass through without being killed.

Bait and switch:
Weapon procs: all enchantments proc except vorpal and dread.
Uses pve: refills stealth bar. Instant daily power refill when a boss attacks it with a power strike. Aggro offset tactic.

There are at least 5 more uses for these powers each but test and find out what they can do.

micky1p00 · January 2017

Yes, I've listed the 5 in my previous post.
1. Tickle mobs.
2. Make mobs cringe.
3. Other TRs point and stare.
4. Makes you do less damage than with any other option.
5. Ohh and if you are in PvP in stealth, it shows where you are (more or less)

But more seriously (for PvE):
Of course it adds damage, but any other 'standard' encounter would do more damage. Replace it with smoke and it does everything the same but better, and in shorter time. The 100% up-time of PotB is not it's advantage, it is it's downside.
It does less than a single BF, less than blitz, less than smoke, less than dazing.
TRs are not ranged class, if you need to do orcus as ranged, PotB is the least of the problem.

Lure monsters to one side? Where is that a thing?

B&S:
1. Weapon procs? It doesn't proc any weapon enchant, it doesn't deal damage.....
2. It's bugged completely, it doesn't aggro anything. My blink dog over aggro it.
3. stealth refill part is not useful, because it doesn't deal damage by itself and must be used while in stealth, you could have just used lashing and got damage. Having full stealth gives nothing without actually using it on something. And no, stealth PvE TRs are not a thing, I can outdps at least 2-3:1 such idea, and I'm somewhere on the mediocre side of the TR spectrum. By all means I'm not against people doing it, everyone should do what they find fun, but that doesn't make it useful, unfortunately. SS can do the same but better, if really needed.

The fact that they do something, i doesn't mean it's useful, or more importantly with limited slots for encounter, if we have 3 better options for all (read as most) situations, it's all moot. It becomes useless.

I would love to see more verity and usefulness in tr powers, and not the same dazing, smoke, something. But by wanting it, unfortunately, it doesn't make it so.

demonmonger · January 2017

You can doubt me.. but I have given you the basic facts...

You can use bait and switch to proc weapon enchantments, mainly lightning works well in groups of monsters chains on all that get tricked on initial cast.

Main bonus is the full stealth refill and full daily power when used properly. There are times when your entire team can die and you are the only one left to kill a boss solo or more than a handful of monsters that will wipe you out with one hit.

I'm trying to assist with practical application knowledge not argue with you.

If you are color blind I can tell you all day the wall is blue while you swear it's grey.

Best of luck with your tricksters.

caveck · January 2017

Allow me to shed light on the usefulness of path of blades.

1. Find a group farming heroic encounters to farm for lanolin.
2. Go to the center of a mob and use path of blades.
3. Go to your kitchen and grab a drink.
4. Come back and again, use path of blades
5. Go to kitchen and place a hot pocket in the microwave.
6. Go to the center of mobs and use path of blades.
7. Retrieve heated up hot pocket from microwave.
8. Respawn because you died, and collect heroic encounter reward.
9. Let hot pocket cool down, hop on your mount and run to the next heroic.

micky1p00 · January 2017

Why would I ever want to BnS as first thing. In solo content I takes one smoke bomb to kill stuff. In group content it takes stealth->dazing.

Again, having it do stuff, doesn't make it useful. I can see our blue wall really well, I just don't see any use use for a blue wall, when I have an arsenal of blue canon-balls, and what I really would like is a blue mini nuke.

Maybe it's a different outlook on the game in general, I haven't been in a situation where I'm aggroing a mob of monsters that will wipe me with one hit. FBI has tank for that. Or I've left to solo, it's either the last HP bars, or I'll wipe so we can restart. It's a group effort, I wont throw silly daggers at orcus for half hour while everyone waits. The last time I've soloed was mod4, or 5, and then it was on purpose.

With all the respect for out-of-the-box and unique builds, mainstream is mainstream for a reason. Because it works and works as moe or less best we can make it. A stealth rogue, in the current class situation, will not outdps a regular MI-EXE. Not even close, and we talk about orders of magnitude here. And at the end when doing MSVA, I wouldn't want to feel like all I can do is jump around and do funny noises.
(Yes, I'm sorry it's blunt, but it is what it is, and I hope the class reworked enough to give more options, but until then...)

So bottom line, all those creative uses are great, and new idea are welcome, and variety is great (I'm not cynical, uncharacteristically)
But still there is reasonable usefulness to things, and if we always make do with the lemons class balance give us, we will be stuck swimming in a very bitter lemonade. And yes, some niche use is not an excuse for an encounter to be broken and yes useless for most cases.

greywynd · January 2017

Use Path in stealth and it procs twice as fast for half as long.

Unknown · January 2017

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demonmonger · January 2017

The cool downs are based on your build.

Some tricksters have bait n switch cooling down at 14 seconds or less.

Most of us speak about these skills from our own perspective. That's all most can do.

Bait and switch can give you 4 daily powers in 12 seconds or less.

demonmonger · January 2017

Remember sab has feats that gives bonus damage based on remaining stealth as well.

micky1p00 · January 2017

cyberdeth#4738 said:

micky1p00 said:

3. stealth refill part is not useful, because it doesn't deal damage by itself and must be used while in stealth, you could have just used lashing and got damage. Having full stealth gives nothing without actually using it on something.
Well, if every move that stealth boosts the damage of terminated stealth, this would be true. It's not though, because of Gloaming Cut. GC doesn't break stealth, does massive damage (especially for an at-will) from stealth, and even partially refills the stealth bar when you kill something with it. But I'm not surprised if you've never used it. It's probably the most overlooked move in the game. You say stealth PVE builds are not a thing. Well, maybe all the ones you've met are just doing it wrong. I out-damage other MI builds all the time. I don't know if they're all EXE, but they probably aren't stealth builds, since about the only time they use it is right before they LB something.

If you use a more or less a sabo build but gloaming instead of other at-wills, you have or don't have the advantage based on the content, sabo has higher burst, lower sustained (compared to exe). The easier the content, the faster you run the more you will do.

If you are not slotting regular dazing/smoke/wr etc.. and rely on return to shadows to refill but instead SS/BnS, and outdps standard exe, I would like to see that. (And not cynical, as I've said, I'm always willing to learn)

demonmonger said:
The cool downs are based on your build.

Some tricksters have bait n switch cooling down at 14 seconds or less.
Most of us speak about these skills from our own perspective. That's all most can do.
Bait and switch can give you 4 daily powers in 12 seconds or less.

I can accept the AP gain. Worth trying. But it's as an aggro and defensive skill, no. It's just broken. As I've said, my blink dog out aggro it. They tried to fix it in mod 5, so it will go higher in the aggro table, but it's not enough, it didn't work back then and it doesn't still. So planting it under orcus, ok. But in any case the boss / mobs move or do not AoE and it's not working.

Also as much as 4 dailies in 12 seconds is great, I need 1 in 8 seconds. And with lurkers blocking most AP gain it's an issue.

cyberdeth#4738 said:

At least B&S is something I could see a D&D rogue using. Path, not so much. In a real D&D session, if I rolled a rogue, and they came across a scroll that casts Path, they'd probably hand it to another character and say it was a scroll of protection. That character would die, and mine would take their gear and sell it when no one's looking. LOL.

The criteria for deciding whether to fix or replace an unpopular move should come down to this. Does the move fit? B&S might not be effective enough in dungeons, but I can see a rogue using it, so I'd simply suggest lowering the cooldown. I can't see a rogue using Path, so I'd suggest replacing it. Of course, these are just my opinions. How about we put it to a majority vote? If the majority agrees it should be replaced, it should be replaced. If not, it should just get fixed, and those of us who don't like it can simply continue to not put points in it. Fair enough? Of course, it's ultimately up to the developers.

Path exists, and not that bad:
http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Path_of_the_blade

You can shift a number of squares equal to 2 + your Charisma modifier. Two times during this shift, you can make an attack, each time against a different enemy adjacent to you.

The original is a double attack + reposition, it's huge in this turn based setting.

The issue with the concept is that in Neverwinter, the fights are faster, much much faster, against either large number of trash mobs, or smaller number of boss+ or just single target.
In this case the 'adaptation' of a constantly hitting skill for relatively low damage, doesn't synergies well.

But the worst part is that it's just not balanced correctly:
Smoke, blitz, BF stealth->dazing provide better AoE (higher damage, in shorter time, and overall higher dps) .
Same dazing, lashing, WR, and even smoke provide better single target, if you account for their cooldowns.

demonmonger · January 2017

I mainly use dazing, smoke for encounters.
However when my entire party dies and I need to solo orcus I use path and ranged attacks

Unknown · January 2017

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wileecoyoteym · February 2017

It doesn't even proc vicious pursuit. I wouldn't be surprised if the damage it deals doesn't count towards paingiver. Smh

Unknown · February 2017

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Please delete "Path of the Blade" already. Most annoying and useless MMO move ever.

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