Ly'saaera 3.9 HB Fury Videos (with ESVA run+log)

kallephi · December 2016

Hello hellish fellas, once I made a FBI topic with a video and the act log, but I decided just to make this topic to post my videos so you can check them without the need of me doing a single topic for every video I post. I'm going to upload videos of everything: HEs, dungeons, trials, and even comparisons between builds and enchants in the future.

And on this post I'm going to put all the videos with the act log below it so everything will be here for further analysis and easy research xD

Again, I'm sorry my act log doesn't have effectiveness, I try to get it to appear but it just doesn't happen. From 3 runs of FBI I can tell that my overall effectiveness at least in FBI is around 170%-175% at the moment.

I hope you enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzfID-Wd8lg

Here is the log:

treesclimber · December 2016

Hum...14% for infantile compensation, not that much considering you can slot another companion there.
Is there any profit in this trial or is this intended to get only weapon refinment marks and weapon refinment stuff? The real question, in terms of profit after getting the weapons, is this any worth to run?
And a thing that i cant really understand, why is everybody runing fire archons when sellswords are clearly superior? Sure fire archons are faster granting bonus, specially in groups of mobs clearing fast but a stackable debuff like selsword can provide it's much superior in single target and loyal avenger beats brutal rings in long term anyway, so what's with that so all mighty fire archon?

werdandi · December 2016

treesclimber said:
Hum...14% for infantile compensation, not that much considering you can slot another companion there.
Is there any profit in this trial or is this intended to get only weapon refinment marks and weapon refinment stuff? The real question, in terms of profit after getting the weapons, is this any worth to run?
And a thing that i cant really understand, why is everybody runing fire archons when sellswords are clearly superior? Sure fire archons are faster granting bonus, specially in groups of mobs clearing fast but a stackable debuff like selsword can provide it's much superior in single target and loyal avenger beats brutal rings in long term anyway, so what's with that so all mighty fire archon?

I cannot answer for the first part, but for the fire archon, I think people use him because it is ranged and not melee , so he doesn't die too often. So companion gift is more durable.

kallephi · December 2016

treesclimber said:
Hum...14% for infantile compensation, not that much considering you can slot another companion there.
Is there any profit in this trial or is this intended to get only weapon refinment marks and weapon refinment stuff? The real question, in terms of profit after getting the weapons, is this any worth to run?
And a thing that i cant really understand, why is everybody runing fire archons when sellswords are clearly superior? Sure fire archons are faster granting bonus, specially in groups of mobs clearing fast but a stackable debuff like selsword can provide it's much superior in single target and loyal avenger beats brutal rings in long term anyway, so what's with that so all mighty fire archon?

I don't know much about sellsword but afaik her debuff doesn't stack, so why having 5 people running the sellsword?

I bought the fire archon in the very beginning when I knew close to nothing about the game (and I don't regret) and it's legendary now so I don't feel like starting a new companion, and his active bonus is nice, I run 3 archons (fire, air, earth), with owlbear and siegemaster.
Anyway, there are three things: greater ostorian ring of dod, talisman of adorable bites and ring of adorable bites.
We're not talking about AD disposal, but about BIS stuff. As far as I know (I can be wrong) there's no necklace, waist or sword knot of adorable bites. And the sellsword has no ring slot. So afaik and as far as I remember there's no way for a sellsword to have more than 3 offense slots on gear...You can get 5 offense slots with fire archon...5 because you might want to keep a single loyal avenger on it for the armor penetration cap...for those who use brutal...it's 840 more power and 840 more crit multiplied by 2.8, 2,352 power and crit. Almost 6% more damage and crit. For those who use azures/radiants...it's 1,400 more power OR more crit multiplied by 2.8...that's 3,920 more power or crit...almost 10% more damage or crit.

I know not everyone is willing to farm a greater ostorian ring of dod, a brutality +5 or to buy an adorable bites, but some people do it (like me).
I just don't buy adorable bites at the moment even though I got the ad for it because it's 6M on AH now, and it was 3.3M 2 weeks ago. I'm not paying double price for it.
If it drops to 4M, sure, I'll buy one.

I like brutality +4 on my companion, I did no test regarding brutality vs. loyal avenger because I have only 1 ring of the loyal avenger and it's already equipped on my toon, the other ring I used before brutality +4 was a loyal commander.

But if you compare a brutality +5 to a ring of the loyal avenger....it's Brutality proc x 2.8 for 10 seconds plus 420 power and 420 crit from the extra offense slot against the armor pen that can be ignored if you already use a single loyal avenger (let's say the talisman), so:

Loyal Avenger: 652 power, 652 crit, 420 power, 420 crit from 1 off slot = 1,072 power, 1,072 crit

Versus

Brutality +5: 840 power, 840 crit from 2 offense slots

You lose 232 power and crit multiplied by 2.8...649 power and crit...1.5% more damage and crit.

So in the end, you are trading 1.5% more damage and crit for the 11,200 power for 10 seconds from brutality proc on the companion

I don't see a reason to use sellsword, besides a lot of DC I know use sellsword for the debuff.

I wouldn't trade my 2 extra offense slots (that I intend to get this month) for a sellsword.

darthbane13 · December 2016

Just curious, but if we're looking at comparable IL SB fury vs HB fury, we may be looking at similar dps in higher level dungeons?? Or does the HB fury out rank in the lower ILS?

kallephi · December 2016

darthbane13#2662 said:
Just curious, but if we're looking at comparable IL SB fury vs HB fury, we may be looking at similar dps in higher level dungeons?? Or does the HB fury out rank in the lower ILS?

I posted screenshots for two FBI runs comparing HB Fury vs. SB Fury. Natsu as SB, me as HB, it's on Daigotsu's topic, you can check there.
I'd say it's almost the same dps as I believe Natsu and I got the same playskill and ilvl.

I really can't tell you if a low gs toon would do more damage with HB or SB because "ive been always HB since level 70. I don't like tabbing every 2 seconds for soul scorch dot.

darthbane13 · December 2016

Well all I know is that I've been enjoying the play style of the HB fury atm, played a SB damnation for a bit before that. More of it is coming together now that I've found I got my artifacts in check from the double RP. I may play with a change in class as time goes on, but liking the cross between buff/party utility and the damage between POP and Dark revelry.

treesclimber · December 2016

Sellsword debuff does stack, stacks between selswords and con artist (that is treated in the same way).

Fire archon is far superior in mob trashing, where even for example if you cary loyal avengers to fill a lack of arm pen it wont be much of a big deal when compared to sellsword she'll be draging herself when compared to fire archon (they have about the same movement speed but she's melee etc etc, you know) so if i invest in her to give me arm pen things can go wrong, the kind of "20% less dps for a while wrong", normally that can be highly reduced with the help of a llira's bell, but what really matters (or at least my perception) is prolonged boss fights, because trashing mobs everybody can but beating bosses where respawning is not an option either 1-> you provide enough resistance/defencive tecniques to your team to make it possible or 2-> you speed up the process, and in that case, thrusting the sellsword with arm penetration is a yes, the llira's bell it's super duper in that inspite of being slower than fire archon, in a matter of 2, 3 seconds at most you have the bondings gift, so the effective stats in a loyal avenger equipment are all of them.

Sure if you consider a similar case to yours where the player has brutal +5 it will have a reasonable advantage over a loyal avenger piece (arm pen included) and greater ostorian ring of of dod less but still some advantage, adorable bites, same thing, but with a sellsword you'll be gaining the damage applied by the debuff and giving all your group damage.

But when i meant everybody using, i mean everyone really, there are loads and loads of people in 2,9, 2,8k IL already carying them and im 100% sure that almost none of them has r12 brutals or even close on their companions, because many of them dont even have bondings at r12, and getting a +4 brutal can be very frustrating, is there any bug/weird interaction or they just do whatever they see other people do/are told and get a fire archon or they are "adepts" of mob trashing so much that they sacrifice boss fights?

And about the rewards after reaching the legendary weapons is it worth to run, is there anything droping there worth or just chance of valhala set?

kallephi · December 2016

treesclimber said:
Sellsword debuff does stack, stacks between selswords and con artist (that is treated in the same way).

Fire archon is far superior in mob trashing, where even for example if you cary loyal avengers to fill a lack of arm pen it wont be much of a big deal when compared to sellsword she'll be draging herself when compared to fire archon (they have about the same movement speed but she's melee etc etc, you know) so if i invest in her to give me arm pen things can go wrong, the kind of "20% less dps for a while wrong", normally that can be highly reduced with the help of a llira's bell, but what really matters (or at least my perception) is prolonged boss fights, because trashing mobs everybody can but beating bosses where respawning is not an option either 1-> you provide enough resistance/defencive tecniques to your team to make it possible or 2-> you speed up the process, and in that case, thrusting the sellsword with arm penetration is a yes, the llira's bell it's super duper in that inspite of being slower than fire archon, in a matter of 2, 3 seconds at most you have the bondings gift, so the effective stats in a loyal avenger equipment are all of them.

Sure if you consider a similar case to yours where the player has brutal +5 it will have a reasonable advantage over a loyal avenger piece (arm pen included) and greater ostorian ring of of dod less but still some advantage, adorable bites, same thing, but with a sellsword you'll be gaining the damage applied by the debuff and giving all your group damage.

But when i meant everybody using, i mean everyone really, there are loads and loads of people in 2,9, 2,8k IL already carying them and im 100% sure that almost none of them has r12 brutals or even close on their companions, because many of them dont even have bondings at r12, and getting a +4 brutal can be very frustrating, is there any bug/weird interaction or they just do whatever they see other people do/are told and get a fire archon or they are "adepts" of mob trashing so much that they sacrifice boss fights?

And about the rewards after reaching the legendary weapons is it worth to run, is there anything droping there worth or just chance of valhala set?

Legendary rings and that's all hahaha. Well, I didn't know sellsword debuff stack

thefabricant · December 2016

kallephi#0836 said:

treesclimber said:
Hum...14% for infantile compensation, not that much considering you can slot another companion there.
Is there any profit in this trial or is this intended to get only weapon refinment marks and weapon refinment stuff? The real question, in terms of profit after getting the weapons, is this any worth to run?
And a thing that i cant really understand, why is everybody runing fire archons when sellswords are clearly superior? Sure fire archons are faster granting bonus, specially in groups of mobs clearing fast but a stackable debuff like selsword can provide it's much superior in single target and loyal avenger beats brutal rings in long term anyway, so what's with that so all mighty fire archon?
I don't know much about sellsword but afaik her debuff doesn't stack, so why having 5 people running the sellsword?

I bought the fire archon in the very beginning when I knew close to nothing about the game (and I don't regret) and it's legendary now so I don't feel like starting a new companion, and his active bonus is nice, I run 3 archons (fire, air, earth), with owlbear and siegemaster.
Anyway, there are three things: greater ostorian ring of dod, talisman of adorable bites and ring of adorable bites.
We're not talking about AD disposal, but about BIS stuff. As far as I know (I can be wrong) there's no necklace, waist or sword knot of adorable bites. And the sellsword has no ring slot. So afaik and as far as I remember there's no way for a sellsword to have more than 3 offense slots on gear...You can get 5 offense slots with fire archon...5 because you might want to keep a single loyal avenger on it for the armor penetration cap...for those who use brutal...it's 840 more power and 840 more crit multiplied by 2.8, 2,352 power and crit. Almost 6% more damage and crit. For those who use azures/radiants...it's 1,400 more power OR more crit multiplied by 2.8...that's 3,920 more power or crit...almost 10% more damage or crit.

I know not everyone is willing to farm a greater ostorian ring of dod, a brutality +5 or to buy an adorable bites, but some people do it (like me).
I just don't buy adorable bites at the moment even though I got the ad for it because it's 6M on AH now, and it was 3.3M 2 weeks ago. I'm not paying double price for it.
If it drops to 4M, sure, I'll buy one.

I like brutality +4 on my companion, I did no test regarding brutality vs. loyal avenger because I have only 1 ring of the loyal avenger and it's already equipped on my toon, the other ring I used before brutality +4 was a loyal commander.

But if you compare a brutality +5 to a ring of the loyal avenger....it's Brutality proc x 2.8 for 10 seconds plus 420 power and 420 crit from the extra offense slot against the armor pen that can be ignored if you already use a single loyal avenger (let's say the talisman), so:

Loyal Avenger: 652 power, 652 crit, 420 power, 420 crit from 1 off slot = 1,072 power, 1,072 crit

Versus

Brutality +5: 840 power, 840 crit from 2 offense slots

You lose 232 power and crit multiplied by 2.8...649 power and crit...1.5% more damage and crit.

So in the end, you are trading 1.5% more damage and crit for the 11,200 power for 10 seconds from brutality proc on the companion

I don't see a reason to use sellsword, besides a lot of DC I know use sellsword for the debuff.

I wouldn't trade my 2 extra offense slots (that I intend to get this month) for a sellsword.

It is a 10% debuff that stacks. Imo it is BiS for every class including dps. Why? Because everyone benefits from it, not just yourself.

kallephi · December 2016

thefabricant said:

kallephi#0836 said:

treesclimber said:
Hum...14% for infantile compensation, not that much considering you can slot another companion there.
Is there any profit in this trial or is this intended to get only weapon refinment marks and weapon refinment stuff? The real question, in terms of profit after getting the weapons, is this any worth to run?
And a thing that i cant really understand, why is everybody runing fire archons when sellswords are clearly superior? Sure fire archons are faster granting bonus, specially in groups of mobs clearing fast but a stackable debuff like selsword can provide it's much superior in single target and loyal avenger beats brutal rings in long term anyway, so what's with that so all mighty fire archon?
I don't know much about sellsword but afaik her debuff doesn't stack, so why having 5 people running the sellsword?

I bought the fire archon in the very beginning when I knew close to nothing about the game (and I don't regret) and it's legendary now so I don't feel like starting a new companion, and his active bonus is nice, I run 3 archons (fire, air, earth), with owlbear and siegemaster.
Anyway, there are three things: greater ostorian ring of dod, talisman of adorable bites and ring of adorable bites.
We're not talking about AD disposal, but about BIS stuff. As far as I know (I can be wrong) there's no necklace, waist or sword knot of adorable bites. And the sellsword has no ring slot. So afaik and as far as I remember there's no way for a sellsword to have more than 3 offense slots on gear...You can get 5 offense slots with fire archon...5 because you might want to keep a single loyal avenger on it for the armor penetration cap...for those who use brutal...it's 840 more power and 840 more crit multiplied by 2.8, 2,352 power and crit. Almost 6% more damage and crit. For those who use azures/radiants...it's 1,400 more power OR more crit multiplied by 2.8...that's 3,920 more power or crit...almost 10% more damage or crit.

I know not everyone is willing to farm a greater ostorian ring of dod, a brutality +5 or to buy an adorable bites, but some people do it (like me).
I just don't buy adorable bites at the moment even though I got the ad for it because it's 6M on AH now, and it was 3.3M 2 weeks ago. I'm not paying double price for it.
If it drops to 4M, sure, I'll buy one.

I like brutality +4 on my companion, I did no test regarding brutality vs. loyal avenger because I have only 1 ring of the loyal avenger and it's already equipped on my toon, the other ring I used before brutality +4 was a loyal commander.

But if you compare a brutality +5 to a ring of the loyal avenger....it's Brutality proc x 2.8 for 10 seconds plus 420 power and 420 crit from the extra offense slot against the armor pen that can be ignored if you already use a single loyal avenger (let's say the talisman), so:

Loyal Avenger: 652 power, 652 crit, 420 power, 420 crit from 1 off slot = 1,072 power, 1,072 crit

Versus

Brutality +5: 840 power, 840 crit from 2 offense slots

You lose 232 power and crit multiplied by 2.8...649 power and crit...1.5% more damage and crit.

So in the end, you are trading 1.5% more damage and crit for the 11,200 power for 10 seconds from brutality proc on the companion

I don't see a reason to use sellsword, besides a lot of DC I know use sellsword for the debuff.

I wouldn't trade my 2 extra offense slots (that I intend to get this month) for a sellsword.
It is a 10% debuff that stacks. Imo it is BiS for every class including dps. Why? Because everyone benefits from it, not just yourself.

Living and learning. Good to know, I could test it but at the moment I'm on the long run of getting AD for my legendary mount hehehe.
Is there a formula for the stacking?

I don't know much about how these formulas work. I'm just wondering 840 power and crit x 2.8 (5.88% power and crit) against the 10% debuff

jaime4312 · December 2016

null
For console players who dont have the great companion gear you guys have (avenger or whatever is called), would the con artist be a good alternative as it has the same debuff? That's what I have on my sw alt and I simply cannot stand the fire archon, dont want to use that thing, for some reason I find it incredibly irritating, it truly puts me on my nerves lol. Firearchonphobia I guess.

thefabricant · December 2016

kallephi#0836 said:

thefabricant said:

kallephi#0836 said:

treesclimber said:
Hum...14% for infantile compensation, not that much considering you can slot another companion there.
Is there any profit in this trial or is this intended to get only weapon refinment marks and weapon refinment stuff? The real question, in terms of profit after getting the weapons, is this any worth to run?
And a thing that i cant really understand, why is everybody runing fire archons when sellswords are clearly superior? Sure fire archons are faster granting bonus, specially in groups of mobs clearing fast but a stackable debuff like selsword can provide it's much superior in single target and loyal avenger beats brutal rings in long term anyway, so what's with that so all mighty fire archon?
I don't know much about sellsword but afaik her debuff doesn't stack, so why having 5 people running the sellsword?

I bought the fire archon in the very beginning when I knew close to nothing about the game (and I don't regret) and it's legendary now so I don't feel like starting a new companion, and his active bonus is nice, I run 3 archons (fire, air, earth), with owlbear and siegemaster.
Anyway, there are three things: greater ostorian ring of dod, talisman of adorable bites and ring of adorable bites.
We're not talking about AD disposal, but about BIS stuff. As far as I know (I can be wrong) there's no necklace, waist or sword knot of adorable bites. And the sellsword has no ring slot. So afaik and as far as I remember there's no way for a sellsword to have more than 3 offense slots on gear...You can get 5 offense slots with fire archon...5 because you might want to keep a single loyal avenger on it for the armor penetration cap...for those who use brutal...it's 840 more power and 840 more crit multiplied by 2.8, 2,352 power and crit. Almost 6% more damage and crit. For those who use azures/radiants...it's 1,400 more power OR more crit multiplied by 2.8...that's 3,920 more power or crit...almost 10% more damage or crit.

I know not everyone is willing to farm a greater ostorian ring of dod, a brutality +5 or to buy an adorable bites, but some people do it (like me).
I just don't buy adorable bites at the moment even though I got the ad for it because it's 6M on AH now, and it was 3.3M 2 weeks ago. I'm not paying double price for it.
If it drops to 4M, sure, I'll buy one.

I like brutality +4 on my companion, I did no test regarding brutality vs. loyal avenger because I have only 1 ring of the loyal avenger and it's already equipped on my toon, the other ring I used before brutality +4 was a loyal commander.

But if you compare a brutality +5 to a ring of the loyal avenger....it's Brutality proc x 2.8 for 10 seconds plus 420 power and 420 crit from the extra offense slot against the armor pen that can be ignored if you already use a single loyal avenger (let's say the talisman), so:

Loyal Avenger: 652 power, 652 crit, 420 power, 420 crit from 1 off slot = 1,072 power, 1,072 crit

Versus

Brutality +5: 840 power, 840 crit from 2 offense slots

You lose 232 power and crit multiplied by 2.8...649 power and crit...1.5% more damage and crit.

So in the end, you are trading 1.5% more damage and crit for the 11,200 power for 10 seconds from brutality proc on the companion

I don't see a reason to use sellsword, besides a lot of DC I know use sellsword for the debuff.

I wouldn't trade my 2 extra offense slots (that I intend to get this month) for a sellsword.
It is a 10% debuff that stacks. Imo it is BiS for every class including dps. Why? Because everyone benefits from it, not just yourself.
Living and learning. Good to know, I could test it but at the moment I'm on the long run of getting AD for my legendary mount hehehe.
Is there a formula for the stacking?

I don't know much about how these formulas work. I'm just wondering 840 power and crit x 2.8 (5.88% power and crit) against the 10% debuff

Well, It stacks additively with itself, so if there are 2 sellswords, they add for 20% base debuff value, with 3, it is 30%, etc. In general though, the sellsword should always be, in a 5 man group, more than a 6% party dps increase at worst, unless you counting buggy mechanics (frost) in which case it will be lower. That is looking at the absolute worst case scenario, where there are already 3 sellswords, a dancing shield and a pf in the party.

For power and crit dps increase you can just use the new power/old power and crit formulas to compare dps increases.

At the end of the day though, you comparing a 6% party dps increase, to a personal dps increase. If you are running a 3 dps 2 support group, assuming all dps are equal, you would need an 18% personal dps increase for it to be equal.

kallephi · December 2016

HB Damnation Master SVA run:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8QV8jJ73JU

Check http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1225981/damnation-is-not-dead/p1?new=1 for the logs and more info ^^

cscriv79 · December 2016

jaime4312#3760 said:
null

For console players who dont have the great companion gear you guys have (avenger or whatever is called), would the con artist be a good alternative as it has the same debuff? That's what I have on my sw alt and I simply cannot stand the fire archon, dont want to use that thing, for some reason I find it incredibly irritating, it truly puts me on my nerves lol. Firearchonphobia I guess.

I run the con artist on my SW on Xbox1, 3 ring slots plus debuff (someone said the debuff from con artist does stack with other con artist, but I have not tested)

jaime4312 · December 2016

cscriv79 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
null

For console players who dont have the great companion gear you guys have (avenger or whatever is called), would the con artist be a good alternative as it has the same debuff? That's what I have on my sw alt and I simply cannot stand the fire archon, dont want to use that thing, for some reason I find it incredibly irritating, it truly puts me on my nerves lol. Firearchonphobia I guess.
I run the con artist on my SW on Xbox1, 3 ring slots plus debuff (someone said the debuff from con artist does stack with other con artist, but I have not tested)

I have that one too, I can't stand that fire archon and @thefabricant confirmed the debuff stacks so I will keep it, the reason I didn't get the sellsword simply is I don't have nor can get items to make it worth it.

kallephi · December 2016

jaime4312#3760 said:

cscriv79 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
null

For console players who dont have the great companion gear you guys have (avenger or whatever is called), would the con artist be a good alternative as it has the same debuff? That's what I have on my sw alt and I simply cannot stand the fire archon, dont want to use that thing, for some reason I find it incredibly irritating, it truly puts me on my nerves lol. Firearchonphobia I guess.
I run the con artist on my SW on Xbox1, 3 ring slots plus debuff (someone said the debuff from con artist does stack with other con artist, but I have not tested)
I have that one too, I can't stand that fire archon and @thefabricant confirmed the debuff stacks so I will keep it, the reason I didn't get the sellsword simply is I don't have nor can get items to make it worth it.

From what I heard, mobs don't have defense stat. And the companion clearly states that it lower's defense stat. I'm confused

rjc9000 · December 2016

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

cscriv79 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
null

For console players who dont have the great companion gear you guys have (avenger or whatever is called), would the con artist be a good alternative as it has the same debuff? That's what I have on my sw alt and I simply cannot stand the fire archon, dont want to use that thing, for some reason I find it incredibly irritating, it truly puts me on my nerves lol. Firearchonphobia I guess.
I run the con artist on my SW on Xbox1, 3 ring slots plus debuff (someone said the debuff from con artist does stack with other con artist, but I have not tested)
I have that one too, I can't stand that fire archon and @thefabricant confirmed the debuff stacks so I will keep it, the reason I didn't get the sellsword simply is I don't have nor can get items to make it worth it.
From what I heard, mobs don't have defense stat. And the companion clearly states that it lower's defense stat. I'm confused

#blame~~takumi~~sharpandmichela

You are correct: mobs LACK a defense stat. Hence why the High Vizier set, when it once had its set bonus, stole 450 Defense as per tooltip, but was a 10% debuff per stack (not counting possible mitigation) due to mobs lacking a defense stat. Another example of this would be the original iteration of Pure/Transcendent Frost: it debuffed for 35%, since mobs don't have a Deflect Severity.

Anyways...

On the original debuff spreadsheet, the debuff testing team split debuffs into 3 categories.

Damage Resistance debuffs. These include most debuffs in the game, such as marks, DG, Wicked Reminder, or Ray of E.
Multiplier Debuffs. These are rare and only apply to Quarry, Dreadtheft, and Ambush.
Defense debuffs. These are rare and apply to most companion debuffs, like the Sellsword's/Con Artist's.

The combination of your DR and Multiplier debuffs cannot exceed a total of 200% effectiveness (your total of DR & multipliers is only 100%, since a pure 100% effectiveness means no changes to damage).

Defense debuffs do not suffer from this cap.

These confusing names are the reason why Michela's PvE debuff guide refers to the defense debuffs as "uncapped debuffs" and DR/Multiplier debuffs as "capped debuffs", because the naming conventions are a mess.

(also, remember that Cryptic tooltips tend to be of... questionable... quality)

jaime4312 · December 2016

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

cscriv79 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
null

For console players who dont have the great companion gear you guys have (avenger or whatever is called), would the con artist be a good alternative as it has the same debuff? That's what I have on my sw alt and I simply cannot stand the fire archon, dont want to use that thing, for some reason I find it incredibly irritating, it truly puts me on my nerves lol. Firearchonphobia I guess.
I run the con artist on my SW on Xbox1, 3 ring slots plus debuff (someone said the debuff from con artist does stack with other con artist, but I have not tested)
I have that one too, I can't stand that fire archon and @thefabricant confirmed the debuff stacks so I will keep it, the reason I didn't get the sellsword simply is I don't have nor can get items to make it worth it.
From what I heard, mobs don't have defense stat. And the companion clearly states that it lower's defense stat. I'm confused

I'm confused as well but I trust @thefabricant 's opinions because they're product of testing (like yours although he does his stuff in a very complex, adavanced and thefabricant-like way lol)so I think he's right, he's a neverwinter genius lol. Anyway, fire archon is a great option for personal dps (especially on pc because of much better companion gear) and so are sellsword and cons artist for party dps. Con artist is generally better on console imo as it's almost impossible and/or incredibly time-consuming and brain dead expensive to get good gear for the sellsword, it's ridiculous.

By the way, do you think you could do some dungeon/skirmish runs with a stable group to compare vorpal vs dread? I love vorpal but feel very curious as of what's the dps difference between these 2, it would be really appreciated and I don't know on pc but on xbox vorpal is far more expensive than dread, dread's price wasn't that high last time I checked some days ago (like 1.7 mil for a perfect, vorpal of the same quaility was around 4.1 mil the cheapest last time I looked at AH).

Oh I jusr read rjc's post as I was typing this lol.

rjc9000 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

cscriv79 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
null

For console players who dont have the great companion gear you guys have (avenger or whatever is called), would the con artist be a good alternative as it has the same debuff? That's what I have on my sw alt and I simply cannot stand the fire archon, dont want to use that thing, for some reason I find it incredibly irritating, it truly puts me on my nerves lol. Firearchonphobia I guess.
I run the con artist on my SW on Xbox1, 3 ring slots plus debuff (someone said the debuff from con artist does stack with other con artist, but I have not tested)
I have that one too, I can't stand that fire archon and @thefabricant confirmed the debuff stacks so I will keep it, the reason I didn't get the sellsword simply is I don't have nor can get items to make it worth it.
From what I heard, mobs don't have defense stat. And the companion clearly states that it lower's defense stat. I'm confused

#blame~~takumi~~sharpandmichela

You are correct: mobs LACK a defense stat. Hence why the High Vizier set, when it once had its set bonus, stole 450 Defense as per tooltip, but was a 10% debuff per stack (not counting possible mitigation) due to mobs lacking a defense stat. Another example of this would be the original iteration of Pure/Transcendent Frost: it debuffed for 35%, since mobs don't have a Deflect Severity.

Anyways...

On the original debuff spreadsheet, the debuff testing team split debuffs into 3 categories.
Damage Resistance debuffs. These include most debuffs in the game, such as marks, DG, Wicked Reminder, or Ray of E.
Multiplier Debuffs. These are rare and only apply to Quarry, Dreadtheft, and Ambush.
Defense debuffs. These are rare and apply to most companion debuffs, like the Sellsword's/Con Artist's.
The combination of your DR and Multiplier debuffs cannot exceed a total of 200% effectiveness (your total of DR & multipliers is only 100%, since a pure 100% effectiveness means no changes to damage).

Defense debuffs do not suffer from this cap.

These confusing names are the reason why Michela's PvE debuff guide refers to the defense debuffs as "uncapped debuffs" and DR/Multiplier debuffs as "capped debuffs", because the naming conventions are a mess.

(also, remember that Cryptic tooltips tend to be of... questionable... quality)

Yeah I totally agree with you, Cryptic tooltips are not so great... They seriously need to be changed for Sergeant Knox's sake!

kallephi · December 2016

@jaime4312#3760

Already ran FBI twice with the same group. Once using dread, once using vorpal. Dps was higher with vorpal..around 10% more overall damage in the end of the run.

@rjc9000

One day I'll have patience to read and learn all these maths, I'm still learning things. I'm playing my GF at the moment, trying a dps build. I'll log on Ly'saaera once per week to run the needed MSVA for testimonials and then back to GF. GF means so much fun

jaime4312 · December 2016

kallephi#0836 said:
@jaime4312#3760

Already ran FBI twice with the same group. Once using dread, once using vorpal. Dps was higher with vorpal..around 10% more overall damage in the end of the run.

@rjc9000

One day I'll have patience to read and learn all these maths, I'm still learning things. I'm playing my GF at the moment, trying a dps build. I'll log on Ly'saaera once per week to run the needed MSVA for testimonials and then back to GF. GF means so much fun

Was it pre or post TC fix though? If it was before the mod 10.5 changes, TC's massive damage boost could have given vorpal the advantage in those tests you did, could you compare vorpal and dread again? Results may be different this time.

kallephi · December 2016

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:
@jaime4312#3760

Already ran FBI twice with the same group. Once using dread, once using vorpal. Dps was higher with vorpal..around 10% more overall damage in the end of the run.

@rjc9000

One day I'll have patience to read and learn all these maths, I'm still learning things. I'm playing my GF at the moment, trying a dps build. I'll log on Ly'saaera once per week to run the needed MSVA for testimonials and then back to GF. GF means so much fun
Was it pre or post TC fix though? If it was before the mod 10.5 changes, TC's massive damage boost could have given vorpal the advantage in those tests you did, could you compare vorpal and dread again? Results may be different this time.

I still use vorpal and it still works with TC, 50% more damage.

jaime4312 · December 2016

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:
@jaime4312#3760

Already ran FBI twice with the same group. Once using dread, once using vorpal. Dps was higher with vorpal..around 10% more overall damage in the end of the run.

@rjc9000

One day I'll have patience to read and learn all these maths, I'm still learning things. I'm playing my GF at the moment, trying a dps build. I'll log on Ly'saaera once per week to run the needed MSVA for testimonials and then back to GF. GF means so much fun
Was it pre or post TC fix though? If it was before the mod 10.5 changes, TC's massive damage boost could have given vorpal the advantage in those tests you did, could you compare vorpal and dread again? Results may be different this time.
I still use vorpal and it still works with TC, 50% more damage.

I have vorpal myself and love how it boosts hellish rebuke's damage so may stick with it. By the way, what are your thoughts on Gatekeeper's emporwement vs offering to the prisoner? I want to try the later when having the chance to so I can see how Hellish Rebuke works with it, it may be very good.

kallephi · December 2016

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:
@jaime4312#3760

Already ran FBI twice with the same group. Once using dread, once using vorpal. Dps was higher with vorpal..around 10% more overall damage in the end of the run.

@rjc9000

One day I'll have patience to read and learn all these maths, I'm still learning things. I'm playing my GF at the moment, trying a dps build. I'll log on Ly'saaera once per week to run the needed MSVA for testimonials and then back to GF. GF means so much fun
Was it pre or post TC fix though? If it was before the mod 10.5 changes, TC's massive damage boost could have given vorpal the advantage in those tests you did, could you compare vorpal and dread again? Results may be different this time.
I still use vorpal and it still works with TC, 50% more damage.
I have vorpal myself and love how it boosts hellish rebuke's damage so may stick with it. By the way, what are your thoughts on Gatekeeper's emporwement vs offering to the prisoner? I want to try the later when having the chance to so I can see how Hellish Rebuke works with it, it may be very good.

I use Gatekeeper's. Hellish Rebuke is 20% of my damage in FBI and MSVA, wouldn't change that.

jaime4312 · December 2016

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:
@jaime4312#3760

Already ran FBI twice with the same group. Once using dread, once using vorpal. Dps was higher with vorpal..around 10% more overall damage in the end of the run.

@rjc9000

One day I'll have patience to read and learn all these maths, I'm still learning things. I'm playing my GF at the moment, trying a dps build. I'll log on Ly'saaera once per week to run the needed MSVA for testimonials and then back to GF. GF means so much fun
Was it pre or post TC fix though? If it was before the mod 10.5 changes, TC's massive damage boost could have given vorpal the advantage in those tests you did, could you compare vorpal and dread again? Results may be different this time.
I still use vorpal and it still works with TC, 50% more damage.
I have vorpal myself and love how it boosts hellish rebuke's damage so may stick with it. By the way, what are your thoughts on Gatekeeper's emporwement vs offering to the prisoner? I want to try the later when having the chance to so I can see how Hellish Rebuke works with it, it may be very good.
I use Gatekeeper's. Hellish Rebuke is 20% of my damage in FBI and MSVA, wouldn't change that.

As Gatekeeper's empowerment works 100% of the time with hellish rebuke and offering to the prisoner is a dead feat in boss fights against bosses such as those of fbi and most of cn (except when one has to stop zomibes from charging the death sphere), I think it's safe to think that the former is better than the latter for a vorpal user, correct?

kallephi · December 2016

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:
@jaime4312#3760

Already ran FBI twice with the same group. Once using dread, once using vorpal. Dps was higher with vorpal..around 10% more overall damage in the end of the run.

@rjc9000

One day I'll have patience to read and learn all these maths, I'm still learning things. I'm playing my GF at the moment, trying a dps build. I'll log on Ly'saaera once per week to run the needed MSVA for testimonials and then back to GF. GF means so much fun
Was it pre or post TC fix though? If it was before the mod 10.5 changes, TC's massive damage boost could have given vorpal the advantage in those tests you did, could you compare vorpal and dread again? Results may be different this time.
I still use vorpal and it still works with TC, 50% more damage.
I have vorpal myself and love how it boosts hellish rebuke's damage so may stick with it. By the way, what are your thoughts on Gatekeeper's emporwement vs offering to the prisoner? I want to try the later when having the chance to so I can see how Hellish Rebuke works with it, it may be very good.
I use Gatekeeper's. Hellish Rebuke is 20% of my damage in FBI and MSVA, wouldn't change that.
As Gatekeeper's empowerment works 100% of the time with hellish rebuke and offering to the prisoner is a dead feat in boss fights against bosses such as those of fbi and most of cn (except when one has to stop zomibes from charging the death sphere), I think it's safe to think that the former is better than the latter for a vorpal user, correct?

Exactly!

jaime4312 · December 2016

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

kallephi#0836 said:
@jaime4312#3760

Already ran FBI twice with the same group. Once using dread, once using vorpal. Dps was higher with vorpal..around 10% more overall damage in the end of the run.

@rjc9000

One day I'll have patience to read and learn all these maths, I'm still learning things. I'm playing my GF at the moment, trying a dps build. I'll log on Ly'saaera once per week to run the needed MSVA for testimonials and then back to GF. GF means so much fun
Was it pre or post TC fix though? If it was before the mod 10.5 changes, TC's massive damage boost could have given vorpal the advantage in those tests you did, could you compare vorpal and dread again? Results may be different this time.
I still use vorpal and it still works with TC, 50% more damage.
I have vorpal myself and love how it boosts hellish rebuke's damage so may stick with it. By the way, what are your thoughts on Gatekeeper's emporwement vs offering to the prisoner? I want to try the later when having the chance to so I can see how Hellish Rebuke works with it, it may be very good.
I use Gatekeeper's. Hellish Rebuke is 20% of my damage in FBI and MSVA, wouldn't change that.
As Gatekeeper's empowerment works 100% of the time with hellish rebuke and offering to the prisoner is a dead feat in boss fights against bosses such as those of fbi and most of cn (except when one has to stop zomibes from charging the death sphere), I think it's safe to think that the former is better than the latter for a vorpal user, correct?
Exactly!

Cool, thanks for your answer!

kallephi · January 2017

I came here just for a merchan of my new video as a dps GF http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1226896/3-8-swordmaster-conqueror-gf-in-fangbreaker-island/p1?new=1

xD

jaime4312 · January 2017

kallephi#0836 said:
I came here just for a merchan of my new video as a dps GF http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1226896/3-8-swordmaster-conqueror-gf-in-fangbreaker-island/p1?new=1

xD

Interesting, I will check it out soon!

protagonist · January 2017

rjc9000 said:

kallephi#0836 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:

cscriv79 said:

jaime4312#3760 said:
null

For console players who dont have the great companion gear you guys have (avenger or whatever is called), would the con artist be a good alternative as it has the same debuff? That's what I have on my sw alt and I simply cannot stand the fire archon, dont want to use that thing, for some reason I find it incredibly irritating, it truly puts me on my nerves lol. Firearchonphobia I guess.
I run the con artist on my SW on Xbox1, 3 ring slots plus debuff (someone said the debuff from con artist does stack with other con artist, but I have not tested)
I have that one too, I can't stand that fire archon and @thefabricant confirmed the debuff stacks so I will keep it, the reason I didn't get the sellsword simply is I don't have nor can get items to make it worth it.
From what I heard, mobs don't have defense stat. And the companion clearly states that it lower's defense stat. I'm confused

#blame~~takumi~~sharpandmichela

You are correct: mobs LACK a defense stat. Hence why the High Vizier set, when it once had its set bonus, stole 450 Defense as per tooltip, but was a 10% debuff per stack (not counting possible mitigation) due to mobs lacking a defense stat. Another example of this would be the original iteration of Pure/Transcendent Frost: it debuffed for 35%, since mobs don't have a Deflect Severity.

Anyways...

On the original debuff spreadsheet, the debuff testing team split debuffs into 3 categories.
Damage Resistance debuffs. These include most debuffs in the game, such as marks, DG, Wicked Reminder, or Ray of E.
Multiplier Debuffs. These are rare and only apply to Quarry, Dreadtheft, and Ambush.
Defense debuffs. These are rare and apply to most companion debuffs, like the Sellsword's/Con Artist's.
The combination of your DR and Multiplier debuffs cannot exceed a total of 200% effectiveness (your total of DR & multipliers is only 100%, since a pure 100% effectiveness means no changes to damage).

Defense debuffs do not suffer from this cap.

These confusing names are the reason why Michela's PvE debuff guide refers to the defense debuffs as "uncapped debuffs" and DR/Multiplier debuffs as "capped debuffs", because the naming conventions are a mess.

(also, remember that Cryptic tooltips tend to be of... questionable... quality)

Do you have a link to this debuff spreadsheet? Can't seem to find it. Also, any chance if you know if the drow race darkfire is in defense debuff category?

Ly'saaera 3.9 HB Fury Videos (with ESVA run+log)

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