Opressor Rework

daniloslv · December 2016

Since there are rumors of a possible CW rework, I would like to repost an old suggestion I made so the community could discuss.
Link to original post: http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1212767/opressor-cw-buff-suggestion

This was posted before Lostmauth set nerf, so disregard the mentions to the old that set worked.

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Opressor is in a very very bad place today.

For those that don't know, Opressor is the CW feat tree that focuses on Control.
It has no DPS. You pick Opressor when you want to CC, but you lose all DPS potential if you pick this tree.

Im ok with that, and it is fair. If we could get something else worth the dps loss.

But it is not the case.

There is 2 main problems with Opressor:
1) PVE boss fights we are bad. Low DPS and small party buffs.
2) PVP fights we are completely negated by Elven battle armor enchant.

My suggestion is to boost party buffs and increase our control.
These feats Im proposing be buffed are 4th column and up. So that the other CWs paths CAN'T take this. This will make it fair because they become Opressor only. If you want these, you will have to give up personal DPS.

Buff boosts:
1) Cold infusion.
this a 4th column feat that reduces enemy damage by 5% when afflicted by chill. This is very deep into the Opressor tree and gives nothing. 5% less damage is nothing. A 4th column feat tree should be a good stuff. And for Opressor this is trash.

My proposal is that this becomes a 4% enemy damage reduction per chill stack. So with a max of 6 chill stacks we get a total of 24% enemy damage reduction. And we could actually be useful against Bosses, because the Opressor would help the team take less damage.

2) Glacial movement.
This feat has a 50% chance to apply an extra chill stack with our at will Ray of Frost. This should be a 100% chance. We depend on chill stacks and building chill stacks faster should be an Opressor thing.

3) Alacrity
This feat has a chance to reduce cooldowns for 2 skills by 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5. The skills are Entangling Force and Icy Terrain. This is 5th column feat and it is trash.
This should be changed to reduce cooldowns for ALL control skills. And not only those 2.

4) Controlled Momentum
This is a 5% dps buff party when using a control skill. This a 5th column feat and is trash. Only 5% party buff?
This should be buffed to at least 15% party dps Buff.

5) Cap feat: Shatter Strike
"When you freeze a target they are afflicted by Shattered for 10 seconds. Shattered foes have a chance when taking damage to be stunned for 5 seconds (1 second on players) and take up to 5% of their Max HP in damage (max 300% weapon damage). This effect consumes Shatter. Additionally, your control powers deal 100% of your weapon damage against control immune targets. Additionally, Chill lasts 2.5 seconds longer."

I would change 3 things with this feat. Our main feat. The one that should make us proud to be Opressor:
a) "Shattered foes have a chance when taking damage to be stunned for 5 seconds (1 second on players) and take up to 5% of their Max HP in damage (max 300% weapon damage)"

The max 300% weapon damage is too low. The Stronghold Orb has 1291-1578 weapon damage at Legendary. 300% weapon damage should be a max of 4700 damage. That is nothing! This weapon damage should work like Lostmauth's set and take advantage of your buffs.

So this part would become 300% weapon damage + any self damage buffs you have (which for an Opressor won't be much, but will help us anyway).

b) "your control powers deal 100% of your weapon damage against control immune targets"
Again, this is too little! 100% weapon damage would be only 1578 damage against control immune target. We already have very little DPS. Make this work like Lostmauth's set and let this damage be increased by any self damage boosts we have!
A control imune target should be punished for fighting an Opressor. And this feat would help with that. But the weapon damage should be boosted by any personal dps boosts we may have (just like lostmauth's set).

c) This is an addition suggestion. Add a piercing control factor against non control immune targets to our control powers (Maybe 40% piercing Control).
Elven battle completely negates our control. We can't do anything against an elven battle user. Can't CC because Elven is almost control immunity and can't kill because Opressor has low DPS. Very low DPS.

Also high deflect builds negate our control. This is wrong. With this piercing control factor, we also could be able to do something against high deflect build users.

If we add a component of piercing control we could do something against them. And also be able to cc a bit high cc resistance mobs (like storm callers in eGWD). Also this would be something that would make us proud to be an Opressor. Yes, we can control! Be control immune or gtfo.

The proposals wouldn't change the system. Would just be necessary buffs to allow us to do our job, support our group via buffs, debuffs and control.

kjwashington · December 2016

This has my support! I'm planning on making an oppressor control wizard soon, myself. It seems ridiculous that the main aspect of the control wizard (control) is so neglected. But at least there's hope. The devs do seem to be fairly focused on balance at the moment. They may just take a look at control in general.

ghoulz66 · December 2016

Thaum should be all about self DPS, but doesn't fare much better than renegade and it's party wide DPS buffs.

Oppressor gets nothing useful. At least give it some solid damage debuffs of enemies and non-crappy control buffs. You have to sacrifice a major feature to slot orb of imposition after all.

voidgift · December 2016

I kinda like the things the way they are with thaum as dps, oppressor as control and renegade as support. Oppressor should get a significant buff to control ability to be relevat at all, but probably not in a way that goes deep into the renegade buff/debuff area.

ghoulz66 · December 2016

voidgift said:
I kinda like the things the way they are with thaum as dps, oppressor as control and renegade as support. Oppressor should get a significant buff to control ability to be relevat at all, but probably not in a way that goes deep into the renegade buff/debuff area.

Thaum does DPS, but not any better than renegade. Problem is with some of the damn feats that don't work properly. Still don't get 5% from fanning the flames, and the chilling cloud feat sure as hell does not do what the tooltip claims. Allowing renegade to receive just as many DPS buffs.

Like the capstone proc'ing more than one of the buffs. Hell the thaum capstone got nerfs making it even more incomparable.

rjc9000 · December 2016

If I were to rework Oppressor from a PvE perspective...

Personally, what I would do is give the Oppressor CAPSTONE (or high-tier feat and feats) a way to bypass or pierce CC immunity on mobs. Granted, I'm not sure how well that would go on mobs that die quickly...

I would also add in, to the Oppressor capstone, the ability to interrupt bosses with a daily (Ice Knife, methinks?) with a 40 second internal cooldown, in addition to requiring Orb of Imposition (or some other CC related class feat).

I refer to interrupt as such: the boss' attack would be canceled and the boss cannot use the interrupted attack for another 5-10 seconds (ie, delaying the inevitable, so you still need to learn the mechanics of the boss fight). However, some restrictions would need to be placed on interrupting certain attacks (such as Call of Winter).

I would also say that this fits with the CW's "wizard" theme: the CW would need to be methodical and watch for the warning signs of certain attacks, then press their Ice Knife at the correct time. You could interrupt a boss' regular melee attack, sure, but a smart player would save their interrupt for a big attack, such the Dragon Turtle's slams, or Orcus' hands pose (when he summons a gimmick).

In addition, I also feel that requiring a CC-related class feat makes sense with the balancing: you need to sacrifice a valuable class feat (SS: Chilling Prescence or Storm Spell; MoF: Swath, Chilling, or Combustive) in exchange for this ability.

The cooldown is there so there is no perma-stun on bosses (ie, can't just cheese bosses where they can't attack), but the cooldown isn't "too" high where it feels like it can only happen once per fight.

Just an idea I had. It may not be perfect, but I think this would make Oppressor interesting.

voidgift · December 2016

@ghoulz66 Agreed! We'd need another thread for renegade and thaum, tho. I'm just worried that one path would overperform on the other's domains, thus making them useless.

@rjc9000 I like that idea. ^^

ghoulz66 · December 2016

That would actually be useful. Have control powers be able to interrupt a control immune enemy every X seconds.

40 seconds sounds useless though, seeing how you'd have to slot mostly non-control powers on a boss, or just stand there like an idiot and watch till they do something before attacking....

rjc9000 · December 2016

ghoulz66 said:
That would actually be useful. Have control powers be able to interrupt a control immune enemy every X seconds.

40 seconds sounds useless though, seeing how you'd have to slot mostly non-control powers on a boss, or just stand there like an idiot and watch till they do something before attacking....

The cooldown was there on purpose, so we don't have perma-stunning bosses. But I'm not sure how long the ICD should be, what powers would be used as trigger for the interrupt, or if you can increase the length of the stun/interrupt.

Reworking or synthesizing the idea would require more feedback from the CW community, as we need to make sure it's balanced both in PvE and in PvP.

(I'm not a total CW expert, as I play one of those cookie cutter PvE SS Thaum builds. :P)

kalina311 · December 2016

I Find most of your suggestions way overpowered ....
thefabricant already schooled you and explained why in the other thread you linked ...

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1212767/opressor-cw-buff-suggestion

dread4moor · December 2016

@thefabricant comments have yet to be adequately disputed.
I agree with the need for a oppressor overhaul. But all your recs are damage and buff based.
Why not boost the CC? Turn capstone into a 5% chance of freeze per stack of chill. Think about it. With icey veins an oppressor would instantly freeze 25% of every room instantly.
That new capstone would easily rival Chaos Magic or Assailant. Make CC relevant again and oppressors would be welcomed back.

kalina311 · December 2016

they dont want to boost cc cause then we are back to the meta of 3 cws per group controlling all the mobs
or they have to re balance dungeons for completion average time

5% chance per rank to completely freeze too powerful cause then you are always getting double damage from chilling presence turning and oppressor cc into a damage dealer

it will also encourage hit and run oh the guy did not freeze run away ...come back hit him again .. hope he instantly freezes .. rinses and repeat ...

also you are forgetting ray of frost as main hand unlock has an extra blast and the second and forth beam making it more likely spamming will instantly freeze a target... you would end up freezing the entire room not just 25% .. cause you are reapplying chill;

not balanced ... good job at creating a new flavor of the month class tho : D

chemodan007 · December 2016

daniloslv said:

c) This is an addition suggestion. Add a piercing control factor against non control immune targets to our control powers (Maybe 40% piercing Control).
Elven battle completely negates our control. We can't do anything against an elven battle user. Can't CC because Elven is almost control immunity and can't kill because Opressor has low DPS. Very low DPS.

For PVP. CW has this factor. CW ignores the part of the resist. At least it says so in one of patchnotes. It is unclear whether this action is for PVE.

dread4moor · December 2016

@kalina311 "they dont want to boost cc cause then we are back to the meta of 3 cws per group controlling all the mobs"
I remember those times. My random "friendly ammendment" was just to support the spirit of improvement of the OP.
How about a flat 5% freeze on any chill application? Quick math, additional chill applied 1 per second you still get about 25% freeze in 10 sec but not overpowering and "hit and run" over 10 sec is not possible.
In any event, CC not damage should be the focus to make it a viable alternative.

kalina311 · December 2016

dread4moor said:
@kalina311 "they dont want to boost cc cause then we are back to the meta of 3 cws per group controlling all the mobs"

I remember those times. My random "friendly ammendment" was just to support the spirit of improvement of the OP.

How about a flat 5% freeze on any chill application? Quick math, additional chill applied 1 per second you still get about 25% freeze in 10 sec but not overpowering and "hit and run" over 10 sec is not possible.

In any event, CC not damage should be the focus to make it a viable alternative.

math 101
25% chance to insta freeze per cast (without 7 stacks ) / spell use........ not over all

and if you fail to insta freeze is there a cool down (what then no insta freeze possible for 10 seconds or no chill stacks possible ?
.

...or you can try again ? .... so basically its up time will be 75% or more

take icy terrain for example no damage to frozoen targets (a bug ) but it keeps ticking automatically so eventually you will get a perama freeze from one power application due to multiple ticks ... asside from the fact of combping a conduit of ice in there 5 ticks or more or a steal time ... an almost almost guaranteed freeze on application then with your "idea"

again I veto the idea as too over powered and I explained why

pvpers and Pveeres would love this overpowerd capstone lol and combined with chilling control lol just crazy over the top nuts ...

this assumes there is one CW lol imagine 2 perma 100% frozen uptime idea rejected bro !!!

daniloslv · December 2016

kalina311 said:
I Find most of your suggestions way overpowered ....
thefabricant already schooled you and explained why in the other thread you linked ...

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1212767/opressor-cw-buff-suggestion

This is an open proposal. The objective is to gather ideas for a possible Opressor rework.
I myself don't have any "secret" agenda to make Opressor some sort of overpowered feat tree.

The main issues I see are:
1) During Boss fights, the lack of DPS is bad for the group. That's why I think about some sort of group buff. If the opressor won't deal damage himself, at least he helps his group.
2) Transcendent Elven Battle is too strong. My CW has almost every source of CC boost available in this game, and yet all that is negated by this one item. That is why I have been proposing some sort of piercing CC factor.

And now I have been thinking of a new direction for Opressor.
We have Thaumaturge dealing damage and Renegade Buffing the group.
If you want more personal DPS, you can go spellstorm. If you want more debuffs you go Master of Flames.

I can think of one role that Opressor could fit: making enemies weaker.
I will call this Hypothermia:

For every chill stack applied by an Opressor the enemy looses a percentage of Recovery, Damage, Stamina and Control Resistance.

What does that means?
Less damage = Less One Shots.
Less Recovery = The boss will attack less often, giving the tank a little more time to recover cool downs, etc.
Less Stamina = GF can't just hide behind their shields forever. (PVP)
Less Control Resistence = Opressor can actually use their skills. (PVP / PVE)

Im thinking of something like 5% debuff per chill stack. At 6 stacks, a total debuff of 30%.
And to be able to keep those debuffs up, the Opressor will need to have Strong control power, because otherwise chill stacks will just fall.

l0th4ri0 · December 2016

Just reduce/eliminate/rarify CC resistance across the board. TADAA! Oppressors are good again. They never stopped being good, actually... its just that the new mobs/players are immune. Play an oppressor up to lvl 70 and see how awesome you can control stuff still. My pressor locks down entire rooms even without Ooi.

kangkeok · December 2016

Maybe they should make control immune target takes 5% more dmg per stack of chill from all damage source.

daniloslv · December 2016

kangkeok said:
Maybe they should make control immune target takes 5% more dmg per stack of chill from all damage source.

This idea is a great one. Solves the problem of Opressor usefulness during Boss fights.

l0th4ri0 · December 2016

kangkeok said:
Maybe they should make control immune target takes 5% more dmg per stack of chill from all damage source.

1 step further perhaps?

Make Oppressor capstone give bonus damage on the order of 5%ish or whatever per stack based on control resistance. Fully immune mobs take the most, while those with little to no control resist get no bonus against them. This ensures Oppressor relevance no matter what situation, while not OPing them and making them higher dmg than Thaums, who should be tops.

This fixes boss damage as well as elites and so on who are not fully immune but might as well be.

kalina311 · December 2016

kangkeok said:
Maybe they should make control immune target takes 5% more dmg per stack of chill from all damage source.

There already is a Cw feat that does that
target takes 5% more damage from all sources after chilled
they are not going to make it 7 stacks x 5% 35% is too much perhaps

Ray of enfeeble or the high vizer armor they took away was doing that and letting parties sail thru runs

l0th4ri0 · December 2016

I'm assuming massive incoming Chilled Presence nerf, so maybe the 5% per isn't uncalled for.

But having the Oppressor get some kind of scaling extra bonus against the mobs with control resist does seem like a pretty elegant way to mitigate the massive loss of ability associated with basically nullifying the "control" part of being a control wizard.

dread4moor · December 2016

@l0th4ri0 "But having the Oppressor get some kind of scaling extra bonus against the mobs with control resist does seem like a pretty elegant way to mitigate the massive loss of ability associated with basically nullifying the "control" part of being a control wizard."
That is a novel approach to the problem. Might make an oppressor useful in a boss fight. Would have to be non-stacking (to prevent a multi-oppressor meta). But it is a clever thought.

Don't be discouraged by the hug-deprived "schooled you" trolls. Some blokes just criticize because they lack creativity.

You and @daniloslv are, at least, suggesting solutions rather then just complaining.

kangkeok · December 2016

I personally feels that Oppressor tree should be a debuff tree for CW. With the introduction to more CC immune giant in SKT content, oppressor is having a hard time. Thaum have the dps and Rene have the buff to kill the giants. Oppressor should have atleast have the ability to debuff control immune target to have an easier time.

@kalina311 Yup there is a feat that do that but its for all mob which is affected by chill. My suggestion is to compensate for Mob that are control immune. Debuff is the best way IMO. As for max stack of chill, i m pretty sure its 6 stack? If its 7, then they could just adjust the % per stack. Its just solely my suggestion to a problem and Its not a buff request. Thanks.

armadeonx · December 2016

I like the idea that strikes against CC immune targets are dealt as piercing damage. Perhaps with a scale? An enemy with 50% immunity gets hit for 50% piercing damage.

Whatever the solution, the problem that almost all higher level enemies have some/total CC immunity means that something needs to be done to rebalance the situation.

Opressor Rework

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