A Change of Model ? As a change of mindset is not going to happen.

lyaise Member Posts: 491 Arc User
I read this excerpt in other player's post:

"We all know that the current model is not going to be sustainable as it has been. There is now way to many boons to grind out in a timely manner and reasonable for any casual. Yes you can buy the boons but still. Two more expansions any new player will not even bother at all as the task is daunting. Easy fixed by removing quest limits per day and increasing currency received to get through old campaigns."

.....the current model not being sustainable.....Got me thinking: yes or no?
For me the answer is it's not sustainable.

Simple reasoning says that if you keep adding stairs to climb then less people are going to be bothered taking the first steps. They just see an apparently endless incline disappearing into the clouds. To a place where others are, but now unachievable with a reasonably sensible playing schedule.

Sure you can play, but there will come a time when you hit the progress stop. Why?
- Because the content is played by people who don't want a lesser geared player in their group.

That is the way the game is set up - mostly.
It's designed for timed repeat runs (lots of them) to get something - over and over.

So people, quite naturally some would say, want to stick with others who will guarantee a successful run - every time. Why pick a 2.2k player who's trying to progress, when a 3.9k player is also asking in general chat? You want to guarantee a successful run, right?

So the stairs then become a lift - that lesser geared players cannot enter.

Lift? Well there's more than one meaning for this word - not only an escalator.
But also giving someone a lift. Sensitive ground here.....

As I've said, the game is set up for timed repeat content - near endlessly.
Fail and you've wasted time, effort, and have to wait til next time - when you're even more likely to insist on the highest item level players in the group.

It takes a different (old school?) mindset therefore, to go out of their way and overlook higher geared players for the sole purpose of helping lesser geared players progress.
I'm not going to dwell on old school v modern mmo player - it is what it is now. Players want to guarantee successful runs, people at the top of the stairs will get chosen over others struggling to get up them.

The original poster mentioned a couple more expansions as being the limit where new players will not even bother - I'd say we are pretty near that now, possibly already there.
...............vote for your favourite expansion..........
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............


  • kvet
    kvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    I agree it's not sustainable. Completely agree.

    On the other topic of elitism - my answer is simple: join my guild :). We don't allow run requests to include item level. The use being, if you qualify to run content, you can join. Then, out culture makes it clear that blaming it on a newer / developing player for a fail is just not allowed. We don't want players in our guild (or alliance for that matter) that acts that way. Basically, if you do a guild run that fails, and you go off on someone for not being able to handle the content... well, the guilds position is that it's the veterans player's fault for not helping the lagging player improve.

    Point is - the elitism is a cultural issue and not really something Cryptic's can "fix" - WE fix cultural issues by making negative behavior unacceptable. It's why I recommend to avoid all use of LFG or Zone or any other global channels. Basically, any channel that allows things like "lf2m etos 3.8k+" should be avoided completely.
  • lyaise
    lyaise Member Posts: 491 Arc User
    Hi kvet, and thanks for replying.
    It's great to see guilds offering this kind of support. I'm not sure there's a great percentage that go to these lengths to give players a lift.
    I purposefully steered clear of using any elitism tag, for me it would just send the topic off on some forum pvp war. The main point I'm thinking about is that original posters comment re current model sustainability. I don't point the finger at high level players wanting to guarantee group success. Can't blame them in all honesty the way the game is set up.

    Players react to the game model, and it's this model which may run out of steam (if it hasn't already) in terms of new player attraction & encouragement.

    But it may be that the company is so fixed on this seemingly one track treadmill, that it will just continue building more of the same steps regardless.
    ...............vote for your favourite expansion..........
    "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
    ..............not this one then.............
  • pitshade
    pitshade Member Posts: 5,423 Arc User
    Cryptic at one point addressed some of the campaign grind in Mod1 - 3. At one point, all of them required over a month to get the final boons. Mod 4 is helped by being able to do additional quests in WoD and both it and Mod 3 no longer hide their group content behind a month long time gate.

    So there has been some improvement in the past, but ultimately none of these the campaigns help new players earn AD to upgrade gear and buy those all important invisible power buffs (pers, mounts, bondings etc...) Getting into a high ranking guild gives more buffs than all of the campaigns combined but unless you luck into onto a non elitist one, you have a Catch 22...

    and that's to say nothing of the high requirements for the new relic items. The gulf between freshly max level chars and geared ones has never been wider nor the means ti bridge it more expensive.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • inyawayupdeep
    inyawayupdeep Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    I think you are correct and its time to lower the daily requirements to complete some of the areas so people can feel they are actually playing the current game, not just trying to catch up. I did say lower not just do away with, boons should still be earned imho, but areas like WOD take far too long.

    Also joining a good guild (not necessarily a level 20 guild) is also paramount to progression most that I've seen discourage using IL to create groups. And most will give you valuable information on progression, and will also help a little in gearing up. And is much more fun than solo play. This said make sure guild is active, small guilds that never have enough active players to put together raids are a waste of time (sad but true) and those running the game should grow a pair and let players know this. They broke the small guilds and need own it.

    I would add that if you want to really play the game, get a good headset and use it. dungeon success is much better when you can talk to team mates rather than just type to them.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,470 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    If one wants to rush to the end, yes, that takes a long time.
    If one wants to do the journey and moves up step by step, it is not as bad as it seems.
    If you play a level at a time, level 1 to level 60 and to level 70, after that, each "new" area is a major level.
    Each boon you earn is a minor level.

    It is all about mind set.
    If your mind set is to rush to be BiS, yes, this model is bad.
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • sweatapodimas
    sweatapodimas Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    I agree with OP that stacking grind every module is going to alienate new players, which robs Cryptic of new players willing to spend money to support the game. It's funny how obvious this is becoming. I have seen many Zone chat discussions addressing this, and I have spoken with many new and old players myself about feeling nervous about this. Herd instinct manifesting...
    "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa
  • katamaster81899
    katamaster81899 Member Posts: 1,157 Arc User
    As a longtime player, I'll attest to it being a bit much. I play this game for the dungeons and group content, not to spend 8 hours on dailies every day for one character. I've stopped doing dailies for almost all campaigns, including the new ones, simply because they just feel overwhelming. I never bothered with Elemental Evil (leveled through PVP to 70), I'm maybe halfway through underdark, and I've stopped after unlocking FBI from the most recent campaign. Enough is enough, I'm sick of the grind to build a character. I would love to build up one of my other 70s, but the fact that they have all of the campaigns to deal with (except DR and Shar, I have those done on several chars) deters me.
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