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Improving Trickster Rogue
hawkwoodnha
Member Posts: 20 Arc User
Put a leaderboard at the end of dungeons for Most Damage Done to the Final Boss.
I know this sounds a little tongue in cheek but I main a rogue, I'll be the first person to say they are a bit on the weak side right now but I think a lot of the issue is also a perception problem. Right now when a TR finishes any of the epics they see their damage score completely obliterated by anyone with a few AOEs. This is depressing and makes the rest of the party feel like they're worthless. After all, why have a TR that's only doing 30 million damage when a SW routinely does 50-70 million.
The problem with the 'raw damage done' leaderboard is that it rewards wasted damage and doesn't emphasize damage where it counts. After all, would your party have gotten through those trash mobs without your SW? Sure, it would have been a little slower but there's no question you still would have made it. Would you have beaten the final boss without the sustained single target damage of your TR? Less likely.
Every other class has a leaderboard that celebrates what they do (whether it be tanking, AOE damage or healing) but TR actually doesn't as TR's thing is single target work. This lack has created a massive perception that TR as a class is even worse than it is. It still needs a rework, but just giving us a leaderboard would help TR players feel like they weren't so underleveled and the rest of the community like they had a place in a party.
I know this sounds a little tongue in cheek but I main a rogue, I'll be the first person to say they are a bit on the weak side right now but I think a lot of the issue is also a perception problem. Right now when a TR finishes any of the epics they see their damage score completely obliterated by anyone with a few AOEs. This is depressing and makes the rest of the party feel like they're worthless. After all, why have a TR that's only doing 30 million damage when a SW routinely does 50-70 million.
The problem with the 'raw damage done' leaderboard is that it rewards wasted damage and doesn't emphasize damage where it counts. After all, would your party have gotten through those trash mobs without your SW? Sure, it would have been a little slower but there's no question you still would have made it. Would you have beaten the final boss without the sustained single target damage of your TR? Less likely.
Every other class has a leaderboard that celebrates what they do (whether it be tanking, AOE damage or healing) but TR actually doesn't as TR's thing is single target work. This lack has created a massive perception that TR as a class is even worse than it is. It still needs a rework, but just giving us a leaderboard would help TR players feel like they weren't so underleveled and the rest of the community like they had a place in a party.
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That seems counter productive.
Its all about how u can get the most out of a TR in any given situation like any other toon.
If you dont know how to utilize your class youre still gonna be a hindrance in your group no new paingiver chart is gonna change that.
Your 'SHOCKING EXECUTION' daily bypass almost every single defensive parameters/stats and way too much overpowered both in PvE and especially in PvP. I have seen 2.5k PvP TR beat the **** out of 4.2K PvP GF with VERY HIGH tenacity.
Your 'Smoke Screen' makes any kind of attack makes non-doable....makes other classes sit on their boo-boos.
Your sticky stuff makes other classes slow and makes them moon-walking.
You guys are the single reason that Elven Battle enchantment exists in this game
Really! what do you want the improvement for?....to solo Fangbreaker Island?
What you guys 'REALLY NEED' is a 'MAJOR NERF' not improvement.
And this one is to the dev team.....PEOPLE STARTING TO BELIEVE THAT THE OWNER'S SON IS A TR MAD AND THATS WHY THIS CLASS NEVER RECEIVED A NERF.
Seriously guys, calm down.
Also, my main Is a TR and my alt is a GWF, each has their own fun things about them, yes, My GWF is easier to solo with and yes, it does more dmg then my TR but my TR is still fun to play and solo with, just takes more dodging is some cases.
And finally, even though I can admit that my GWF does more dmg then my TR, I know a lot of other players who have wondered how/why I out DPS them...even a lot GWFs.
So imho, its probably your build that is the issue here. Also, heres a tip. stop. caring. about. the. stupid. leaderboards. If you finished the dungeon, that's what counts, not how much dmg you did. Its not like you dps changes the rewards you get.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I especially love the advice about the leaderboards. I do understand where the OP is coming from (I think) in that PUG groups constantly post for this 'mystic' HDPS character, so you might not respond if you don't do 20million in a dungeon--or being afraid of being kicked because you don't run ahead so that you can 'peg the leaderboard'. It would be nice if a lot of the players didn't focus on the leaderboard or the paingiver charts and instead focused on having a good time and playing the dungeon as a team.
I tend to envy players like Sharpe and some of the other elite TEAM players--not because their skill level is so good (well that too), but because it seems they do everything to play the dungeon as a team. Focusing on synergistic strengths. When you have a five person group and you 'strike fear into the mobs' by effectively blitzing the worst they have to offer by working together--that's fun. When you have one person that insists on running ahead because of 'Leaderboard Gravitas', that isn't quite the same.
The in-game dungeon stats are generally not very useful.
For tanks, the displayed "damage taken" stat is post-mitigation damage. All the damage that my GF's shield blocks doesn't show up.
For healers, there is so much self-healing in the game (at least in end game) that the focus is more on buffing / debuffing. Neither of those are reflected in the stats. My DC will often slot no heal-only powers to maximize the buffing and will be out-healed by player's own self-healing.
The Paingiver and related charts can by fun "FYI" stats but they don't reflect very well on the contribution of each toon to a successful run.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
For all the suggestions that it only meter that you finished the dungeons, or it only meter if you enjoy the class, let me tell you this bar joke:
3 DPS go into the FBI bar a TR, a GWF, and a Trapper HR, at the bar they met GF and DC and a brawl against giants began. After 1.5hours of exhausting fighting all enemies subdued and they reach the barman for their loot. The barman offer boxes for a key, and a box inside a box with random loot not for your class. Disappointed everyone look at the score table or ACT and see that the HR/GWF did more than twice than the TR.
Sad TR, being doing various bar fighting for 3 years now since beta bars, realized that taking his MOF CW, with about tenth of the gear in AD worth, as a buffer would have made the run 40 minutes instead of 1.5hours and way less exhausting.
Feeling useless suddenly the TR for the first time found a use for shocking execution in PvE and killed the bartender. The End.
TR is a squashy melee dps class, in normal situation this high risk should have high reward. Need to use skills to avoid damage and should have higher damage than a ranged class (that doesn't have the risk of being hit by the melee enemy). So the ranged support artillery doesn't hold.
For the new people out here, I'm glad that you came over from the PvP forums to grace us with your class wisdom about TR nerfs, but considering that during the game life TR was probably nerfed the most and most significantly (excluding 2 weeks of SoD multi-proccing), perhaps you should brush on your class history before making statements that show your knowledge.
BTW, with current stat functions I would love to have the old exe back, without SoD, without "More damage to enemies bellow 30%), without "more damage if nearby enemy dies" - where are those enemies on bosses like Orcus / Turtle.
And more importantly without depletion of stealth on attacks and lets have the old critical overrun, probably a bit buffed to current standards.
Long drown fight: TRs most damage come from one single skill, DF bleed, being a stack-able bleed you need at least 2-3 DFs to stack it to 10, hopefully (or with good stealth timing) to make it crit, and now start cycling SoD as much as you can. TRs are their meager best in long fights, and at their worst at burst. yes yes, all the double (or triple for sabo) stealth and still gwf/cw can outburst TRs in AoE situation, and single target burst in irrelevant in PvE... like using stealth lashing with first strike (and feat shadow-born for extra big numbers) at a mob with 20k hp... wohowo you made a unbuffed burst of half mil \o/ great, but you are useless. (general you, and example for high burst that isn't worth a HAMSTER)
TRs have only one AoE burst skill and it's stealth->dazing and more or less one daily, whirlwind, even the great smoke bomb needs time to proc fully and slower than icy terrain + ST. ( I won't count lurker+TC4+BF into this for questionable WAIness, and to fully do the 10 or more BF takes more time than smoke, it's not a burst damage anymore)
now I know. Thanks.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I have some faith that the current systematic approach to class balancing will improve the situation. Yes, it's progressing far slower than anyone (including probably the devs) would like. But it is progressing.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Where's Scoundrel build? Don't leave this feat behind.
Oh. DPS thread. Not mob management thread. Not dungeon-crawling strategy thread. Not pulling a tactical assault on each mob encounter and bosses thread (everyone seems to be skipping this part, resulting dead DCs or whatever killjoy that love to run ahead in dungeons).
TR is not GF. The DC is fine, thank you, GF can hold everything fine, that's what it's there for.
Why the hell I need TR for mob management? Or we are now in the habbit of defining a class by a single encounter named smoke bomb. You insult any capable tank now (and TR).
Scoundrel is the most useless path of the 3, both in PvP and PvE. TRs are Strikers, making a tank / CC TR where most of the things are control immune is...wise... especialy for a class that can't hold aggro. Perhaps ask the Control Wizards, how is the control part going for them so far and what needed to actually be able to control. There is only one practical CC in this game and it's Aggro management and for that we have tanks.
No, it's a TR thread. Don't Strawhamster people because you only PUGs and those can fail to do MC. Some of us playing for a long time, and at least mediocre about it.
Let me explain you the most complex strategy in this game that works from MC to FBI.
Tank pulls, DC makes sure tank lives, dps kills.
I understand it's mind blowing by complexity, I needed to sleep over it too.
Let me explain you the most simple strategy in this game that works from MC to FBI(for some).
You run and you kill stuff.
Mind blowing again! You know why this works ? Because we have enough gear and buff / debuffs to not need any other strategy. You are trying to force spears, arrows and phalanx strategies in an age with nuclear weapons and stealth bombers. Sorry, no. Not all of us clueless pugs. We got the memo about the modern arsenal. And we can judge where we can get away with the simple and were we need this extremely complex strategy from above.
Please,
1. Get out of the pug bubble.
2. Don't Strawhamster me.
3. Don't invent some non-existing problems... DC dies... right... The DCs will outlive us all.
The current meta goes for buff/debuff and dps with one tank. A TR is one of the classes, who can engage better than most other non tanking classes bc of stealth/ CC. This is nice, but does not contribute to the meta.
You cant make all dps classes deal the same dmg. This would result in MOF/rene CWs supreme rule, bc they bring most buff/ debuff, besides the DC.
TR needs a feat/ build, that gives him the ability, to trade his CC/ stealth ability for more dmg. CW can go thraum, no buffs and decent dmg. TR MI exe is a dps build, but he still does not lose his base mechanics.
Maybe a first step would be, to get rid of the target cap to smoke bomb and some other skills. This would help PvE without HAMSTER up PvP. Any more dmg has to be compensated with stealth/ CC. Otherwise TR would be the hated supreme king of PvP, again.
TR can be competitive in PvE with other dps classes. Some GWFs can be better at the same level of items/boons/peronalskills/etc. But good TR and by good I mean person who now the class can outDPS any other dps class.
But... what paingiver chart does not show you is that GWF do hits for 500k+ or even milions of damage (IBS) to mobs with HP around 200-400k HP. It counts for paingiver, but does not give you anything. Mobs will be as much dead as if they will receive 400k of dmg.
So TR will stay behind a bit whatever you will do, because we cannot stack Duelist and its bleed effect fast enough on mobs and our encounters rarely hit for more than 300k dmg. On boss fights sure we shine (I'd like to shine more, but...) and bleed or Shadow of Demise can hit for more than a milion of dmg. But GWFs are good at single target too... that is the only thing I find a bit unfair.
To sum it up. TR is not easy to play. You must be a very good player to compeete with GWF at the same lvl, but you can do much better than other classes if you try hard enough
Smoke bomb no longer works with any weapon enchantment other than vorpal (not sure about dread)
Wicked reminder no longer has unlimited aoe potential, but caps on 5 monsters.
When you throw your shadow strike to refill stealth bar and get hit, your stealth bar does not fill completely.
(Wasted still because it does no damage)
So much more but mehm. I'm hungry