[PC] Question about all Trapper Roots in MOD10

david · September 2016

Hi all,

My question is about the heavy hitters trappers have (grasp, storng, thorn...) roots of any kind and how its damage calculation has been modified after mod10.

My Hr is on his way to 2,8k ilvl, SW trapper, started it few weeks before mod10 was released. Few days ago I asked an experienced HR I met months ago about next steps to take on my toon. Imagine how disapointing was his answer when he told me was not playing hr anymore since main sources of trappers damage had been seriously nerfed, this is all kind of roots, they were now a flat calulation of weapon damage plus the power bonus and thats it, the unique further enhanced damage was crit%. Not power nor anything else anymore.

He basically told me once you got the powers at lvl 4, thats the max damage the powers will ever do. In the range 2-2,5k ilvl you blows absolutelly any other class, but from this point onwards the only increases will come from more crit% while any other DPS clas will continue getting benefits of power and other sources; in such way once passed the 3k hr is the last dps class.

I basically would like to have feedback on ths, to better understand with more detail how damage was calculated pre-mod10 and how it is now, and up to which point the consequences of such changes are like my friend said. He was a top DPS 3.9k ilvl trapper and was pretty upset.

Thank you for your feedback and I hope you can understand my english.

David

mayday · September 2016

Roots benefit from buffs and debuffs of all kind even post M10.
Actually, blade storm got a fix, not roots: it dropped in DPS from as high as 20% of the entire DPS to 3-5%

Was also changed the damage dealt by roots to control imunes to a higher level

Also, the rank of the power does not affect roots damage. Roots damage is calculated based on thorned roots feat rank, ranged weapon damage, power, crit, buffs, enemy damage resist and applied debuffs.

mayday · September 2016

david#2060 said:
Many thanks to all for the feedback. Lonstraider is too good indeed to overlook it. I have slotted it and will practise with it untill get used, so many people cannot be wrong. I already was using Gladiators, so just have slotted some more movemnt, 900 atm. When I dont feel like going backwards for circumstances, i jut shoot as if i was using hindering and keep going. Hopefully I will improve my technique in near future.

On the other hand, gushing wound has like a big delay after pressing button, many times I just skip using it (specially in dangerous situations). I feel like its not working properlly. Any tip for this?

Regards
David

Gushinc is only for ”fat” targets, when you are out of any danger, as it has a long animation/cast time. i usualy use it on the mob with most HP after near all mobs landed their aoe, as well as on bosses as last mele skill in the rotation.

wdj40 · September 2016

I honestly do not know what the question or problem is.

I could post all day long what people have told me, they have told me this that and all the other. It means nothing until I test things myself.

Don't rely on other people and work things out for yourself, if things are not going right/correctly then post and ask some questions

david · September 2016

@mayday thank you for your feedback on this, it has been highly appreciated. Although if have been any changes in damage calculation since mod9, i would l
@wdj40 you are right when you say to test things by myself, but im just new playing 3 months now and dont have a clear vision of how to perform tests. Although I think is not very difficult even for me to get a dummy, modify just power on my toon and compare 2 rounds. Im gonna do it, ty.

wdj40 · September 2016

david#2060 said:
@mayday thank you for your feedback on this, it has been highly appreciated. Although if have been any changes in damage calculation since mod9, i would l
@wdj40 you are right when you say to test things by myself, but im just new playing 3 months now and dont have a clear vision of how to perform tests. Although I think is not very difficult even for me to get a dummy, modify just power on my toon and compare 2 rounds. Im gonna do it, ty.

Yeah things have changed in every Mod really, I have never seen it get considerably worse for a HR in PvE content. I have recently got very bored in game and am looking forward to the massive amount of changes to hit the consoles... freshen it up a little

I think the only people who are going to be really nerfed are the ones who relied on broken powers or glitches possibly.

There was almost a huuuuuuge nerf to the Trapper, but that was changed a little at the last minute thank the heavens lol.

durugudesu · September 2016

Hi david, do not worry, HRs or Trappers to be specific to your post is still doing massive damage output, despite the bladestorm nerf. longstrider/gushing wound got a big buff, so if you practice using it as part of your rotation, not only will you do massive damage, you will also boost your team's damage thus making a faster run on whichever dungeon that is.

If you have doubts, since you are in the PC, feel free to send me a tell or a mail, I'll run with my HR and then hopefully you won't be disappointed by the damage output it can produce.

have fun!

@durugudesu

jhpnw · September 2016

David mod 9 and mod 10 Trapper PF I have had no issues with dps. In mod 9 other than bugged S Warlock I could not be Out Dpsed by anyone. And once Mod 10 came I had a bug in my Setup which took a respect to fix. Then My Dps was better due to the changes how DPS was done to control resistant bosses so Dps actually went up and I hear that the SW trappers are actually producing better DPS out than PF. TBT I have yet to see one do that . Lately I have been bored thou so playing with Hybrid combat for PVP its fun and really does well in PVP but dps is down around 35% but still I can hang with any other class and Longstriders makes every one elses dps Go nuts so HR is a welcome Guest at any party. its not uncommon in DF or Tia for my Careful Attack to do 20% of my DPS still in Combat or Trapper. So take what you will from this post.

Ara

david · September 2016

Thank you very much for all the feedbacks, its nice to see i can go forward with my hr, Im enjoying plaing trapper much more than any other class.

Regarding longstrider, it is hard to get used indeed; atm i loose too much dps when using it in dungeons, i waste too much time going back and forward. Need more practise.Any suggestion on this?

Regards
David

mayday · September 2016

You need to get used to Min distance for longstrinder to proc. Just keep it on your bar an use, you will get used to it soon

wdj40 · September 2016

david#2060 said:
Thank you very much for all the feedbacks, its nice to see i can go forward with my hr, Im enjoying plaing trapper much more than any other class.

Regarding longstrider, it is hard to get used indeed; atm i loose too much dps when using it in dungeons, i waste too much time going back and forward. Need more practise.Any suggestion on this?

Regards
David

Get yourself a decent amount of Movement (mine is a little overkill at 1.4k). Then equip Gladiators Guile Mount bonus... these 2 really help getting into and out of distance really quickly.

durugudesu · September 2016

david#2060 said:
Thank you very much for all the feedbacks, its nice to see i can go forward with my hr, Im enjoying plaing trapper much more than any other class.

Regarding longstrider, it is hard to get used indeed; atm i loose too much dps when using it in dungeons, i waste too much time going back and forward. Need more practise.Any suggestion on this?

Regards
David

Here is a good tip from a friend, keep moving forward, longstrider from afar, move towards enemies, keep moving forward to not lose momentum/shift out if you lose move speed, turn camera around and repeat. If you dislike it, then just go with either hindering(if your previous thorned roots crit and you use this and it didnt crit, Dot of the crit one is gone and replaced by this recent non crit applied) or fox(removes Wild hunt rider buff[bye bye 10% damage] from the party) or thornward for longstrider, but like i said, longstrider and gushing got the biggest buff so it would be a waste to not capitalize on it.

Also once you get used to it, you wont be able to live without it. Bonus damage and Godly movespeed is addictive.

david · September 2016

Many thanks to all for the feedback. Lonstraider is too good indeed to overlook it. I have slotted it and will practise with it untill get used, so many people cannot be wrong. I already was using Gladiators, so just have slotted some more movemnt, 900 atm. When I dont feel like going backwards for circumstances, i jut shoot as if i was using hindering and keep going. Hopefully I will improve my technique in near future.

On the other hand, gushing wound has like a big delay after pressing button, many times I just skip using it (specially in dangerous situations). I feel like its not working properlly. Any tip for this?

Regards
David

durugudesu · September 2016

just dont cast gushing wound if it seems an attack is most likely to come, most of the time i cast steel breeze after gushing and just jump + shift if i need to move away for longstrider again, you'll get used to it!

Also yeah treating longstrider just like hindering exccept without roots and charges is fine too. i do that when i use forestghost cause all my cooldowns are getting massive reduction, better to keep a barrage of encounters than going away to proc longstrider when i use forest ghost, except for certain times like orcus shouting and getting ready to fly away and stuff.

wdj40 · September 2016

durugudesu said:
just dont cast gushing wound if it seems an attack is most likely to come, most of the time i cast steel breeze after gushing and just jump + shift if i need to move away for longstrider again, you'll get used to it!

Also yeah treating longstrider just like hindering exccept without roots and charges is fine too. i do that when i use forestghost cause all my cooldowns are getting massive reduction, better to keep a barrage of encounters than going away to proc longstrider when i use forest ghost, except for certain times like orcus shouting and getting ready to fly away and stuff.

Yep, Longstrider can hit like a truck in its own right. As I aim for around 75-90% Crit after procs (not including AotS stacks), if I use it last in a rotation it has a chance to not Crit (which is what I want as I have an Owlbear in my actives). Hits even more like a truck when it doesn`t Crit at close range for me lol

Obviously the damage & speed buff from LSS proccing is better than it not proccing, but it is not always beneficial to get back to LSS proc range every single time any way.

Basically the way I work it, with AotS stacks, is Longstriders 1st in a rotation if I know it is going to proc, if I know it is not going to proc I will use it as the very last Ranged attack before switching to melee... having a quick look around obviously in case I can proc it easily on a far away target.

thefiresidecat · September 2016

wdj40 said:

david#2060 said:
@mayday thank you for your feedback on this, it has been highly appreciated. Although if have been any changes in damage calculation since mod9, i would l
@wdj40 you are right when you say to test things by myself, but im just new playing 3 months now and dont have a clear vision of how to perform tests. Although I think is not very difficult even for me to get a dummy, modify just power on my toon and compare 2 rounds. Im gonna do it, ty.
Yeah things have changed in every Mod really, I have never seen it get considerably worse for a HR in PvE content. I have recently got very bored in game and am looking forward to the massive amount of changes to hit the consoles... freshen it up a little

I think the only people who are going to be really nerfed are the ones who relied on broken powers or glitches possibly.

There was almost a huuuuuuge nerf to the Trapper, but that was changed a little at the last minute thank the heavens lol.

wait... this is good news. especially that last line. so they didn't nerf the roots like they were going to??

wdj40 · September 2016

thefiresidecat said:

wdj40 said:

david#2060 said:
@mayday thank you for your feedback on this, it has been highly appreciated. Although if have been any changes in damage calculation since mod9, i would l
@wdj40 you are right when you say to test things by myself, but im just new playing 3 months now and dont have a clear vision of how to perform tests. Although I think is not very difficult even for me to get a dummy, modify just power on my toon and compare 2 rounds. Im gonna do it, ty.
Yeah things have changed in every Mod really, I have never seen it get considerably worse for a HR in PvE content. I have recently got very bored in game and am looking forward to the massive amount of changes to hit the consoles... freshen it up a little

I think the only people who are going to be really nerfed are the ones who relied on broken powers or glitches possibly.

There was almost a huuuuuuge nerf to the Trapper, but that was changed a little at the last minute thank the heavens lol.

wait... this is good news. especially that last line. so they didn't nerf the roots like they were going to??

No the original plan was to "fix" Swiftness of the Fox to have it only proc per Power used and not how many enemies/friends are hit by said Power. This actually massive nerfed the Trapper and destroyed the play style completely... which I imagine a lot of consoles players played the HR for, I know I did, I could not care less about the damage and just wanted to preserve the playstyle, so lower damage and no cool downs.

Anyhoo this caused quite a rift between the PC and Xbox community with PC players not really understanding the problem whilst console players threatened to leave etc etc. I have to say I was not happy along with a few others. Then 50 somethings pages of comments to sift through mainly about that one change.

So they put in Dailies and At-Wills for Swiftness of the Fox so we can preserve the playstyle a lot of us loved.

david · September 2016

Hello guys!

getting used to LS, it really helps a lot when you get the tempo; still need more practise though. MY rotation right now is LS, change to melee while aproach, unload all melee plus at wills, swich instance, shoot cordon and contricting, run back away, then LS , and repeat. Is it the best rotation? Thanks for explain.

Btw, sometimes it doesnt proccs (and im sure 100% by the distance it should), does it happens also to you?

Regards

wdj40 · September 2016

david#2060 said:
Hello guys!

getting used to LS, it really helps a lot when you get the tempo; still need more practise though. MY rotation right now is LS, change to melee while aproach, unload all melee plus at wills, swich instance, shoot cordon and contricting, run back away, then LS , and repeat. Is it the best rotation? Thanks for explain.

Btw, sometimes it doesnt proccs (and im sure 100% by the distance it should), does it happens also to you?

Regards

Ok sounding good but try using Longstrider with 2 stacks of Aspect of the Serpent, proccing it and then following it up with Constricting Arrow (with 1 stack of AotS) straight away before going into melee range. This will massively buff Constricting Arrow and the Thorned Roots that it will provide, up to 5 targets.

Longstriders should last 4 seconds so if you can get get all your Ranged attacks and melee attacks in then they should all receive that 40% damage buff. By firing Longstriders then getting into range for melee attacks you are loosing out on some DPS there.

Also try to watch you Aspect of the Serpent stacks, try not to switch to the other stance until you have 2 stacks of the opposite Aspect of the Serpent.

Here is how I generally do it...

Longstrider Shot > 2 stacks of AotS
Constricting Arrow > 1 stack of AotS
Disrupting Shot
Hindering Shot
Hunters Teamwork

Slashers Mark > 2 stacks of AotS
Hindering Strike > 1 Stacks of AotS
Steel Breeze
Gushing Wound
Careful Attack

If the enemy is too close though Longstrider will switch to the bottom of the Ranged list instead of at the top. That way Constricting and Disrupting get the stacks of AotS. Also depending on the situation Hindering Strike can switch to the bottom of the melee list (due to it having extra damage for Thorned Roots from Ranged mechanics).

This will probably change for me as of Mod 10 though with things like Careful Attack changing and Swiftness of the Fox too etc.

wdj40 · September 2016

david#2060 said:
Hello guys!

getting used to LS, it really helps a lot when you get the tempo; still need more practise though. MY rotation right now is LS, change to melee while aproach, unload all melee plus at wills, swich instance, shoot cordon and contricting, run back away, then LS , and repeat. Is it the best rotation? Thanks for explain.

Btw, sometimes it doesnt proccs (and im sure 100% by the distance it should), does it happens also to you?

Regards

Oh and I forgot to mention, that Longstrider not proccing sometimes is something to do with a Friendly between you and your target. I don't remember exactly what the findings were, I think it was if a friendly is between you and the enemy you shot Longstrider at it can stop it from proccing... or something like that.

david · September 2016

Hi there,

thanks all for the answers.

@wdj40, one question regarding your comments on raotation. Why is important to apply the 2 stacks of AotS to LS? does the stacks affects the buff? Otherwise, if only applies to the damage, does it matters if constricting or cordon get the stack bonus? unles being LS the one dealing highest damage , which I do not think it is...

Also with LS the first on the rotation sometimes I dont have time to unload all the melee, and this is were most of the damage is released(I think?).

Thanks for the feedback

Regards
David

wdj40 · September 2016

david#2060 said:
Hi there,

thanks all for the answers.

@wdj40, one question regarding your comments on raotation. Why is important to apply the 2 stacks of AotS to LS? does the stacks affects the buff? Otherwise, if only applies to the damage, does it matters if constricting or cordon get the stack bonus? unles being LS the one dealing highest damage , which I do not think it is...

Also with LS the first on the rotation sometimes I dont have time to unload all the melee, and this is were most of the damage is released(I think?).

Thanks for the feedback

Regards
David

Longstriders is generally 1st for me in the Ranged rotation as it gives a 40% damage increase to your attacks for the next 4 seconds. Whereas 2 stacks of Ranged AotS gives off less of a damage boost than Longstrider and only to 1 attack.

I have tried and tested it a few times... Longstrider (2 stacks AotS) then Constricting (1 stack AotS) is more powerful than using Constricting with 2 stacks of AotS. Constricting, plus the Thorned Roots, are better benefiting from the 40% Longstrider buff AND 1 stack of AotS.

It is all down to skill and timing too, Longstriders is better when used in an incredibly fast rotation. Cordon/Plant Gowth for me is just a little too slow (even when skipping some of the animation) and thus some of your attacks may not get the Longstriders damage boost.

The 3 Encounters I use... Longstriders/Constricting/Hindering are all very quick on both the Melee and Ranged versions of the powers. Plus Disrupting Shot Daily is extremely fast and also Slashers Mark Daily is amazing for closing huge gaps in an instant.

wdj40 · September 2016

I just realised, this is a PC mod 10 thread. I am sorry as I am not in Mod 10 yet.

jhpnw · September 2016

with a companion I have found that replacing AOTS with Aspect of the Pack rank 4 does more over all DPS with out having to keep up with stacks of serpent

wdj40 · September 2016

jhpnw said:
with a companion I have found that replacing AOTS with Aspect of the Pack rank 4 does more over all DPS with out having to keep up with stacks of serpent

Or just use both, like me

auntjimima · September 2016

I use pack and serpent. then switch out one for seeker's vengence on bosses.

david · September 2016

i guess you are pathfinders, any SW using serpent+pack?

David

mayday · September 2016

david#2060 said:
i guess you are pathfinders, any SW using serpent+pack?

David

sure. as long as you do not have a GF, GWF or reneCW arround, pack is more damage then blade storm and in many cases, more then twin blade storm.
But when combat advantage is granted allready, TBS or blade storm is better.

durugudesu · September 2016

if you are gonna use longstrider from afar, cast constricting next, swap stance twice to proc master trapper, while still travelling near target cast cordon if still not close, if not then just an at will or swap to melee then cast your rotations. swapping stances does not use your serpent stacks, you should swap as often as you can(didnt you play counter strike?

).

wdj40 · September 2016

Dont forget Aspect of the Pack is still excellent even for a Stormwarden... I mean almost perminant CA is absolutely fantastic with all the boosts we can get to it. Even better if you take the off-hand bonus too which is up to 8% extra damage just by being near Allies.

jhpnw · September 2016

IN BOSS FIGHTS that a cc immune you can add another root encounter to mix also for a nice 450% damage singe hit it was changed in mod 10
Final patch notes
•Thorned Roots: When striking a target that is immune to control, Thorned Roots stated that it would deal a bonus 250% Weapon Damage up front. However, it was actually dealing 2 ticks of damage, one at 175% of Weapon Damage, and one at 50% of Weapon Damage per rank of Thorned Roots, for a maximum total of 425% Weapon Damage at Rank 5. This has been changed to now do 1 tick of damage for 200% + 50% per rank, for a maximum of 450% at Rank 5. The tooltip has been updated with these numbers, and has been clarified to state that this is in addition to the DoT.
•Thorned Roots: When used in conjunction with the Class Feature Crushing Roots, Thorned Roots would apply the Daze twice. In most cases, this would manifest as just causing the Daze to last about 0.1s longer. This has been fixed.
and

•Thorned Roots: The damage over time component of this power no longer has its duration reduced by control resistances, nor is its duration increased by control bonuses. If you apply Thorned Roots to a target, then all of the ticks of damage will apply to them, even if the Root effect is removed earlier. Targets that are completely immune to Roots still get the individual burst of damage instead of the DoT.

[PC] Question about all Trapper Roots in MOD10

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