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Vorpal vs. Dread ... Round TWO

nathan#8975 nathan Member Posts: 225 Arc User
MORTAALLL KOMMMMBAAAAT!!!

full disclosure: I have read the holy words of @thefabricant and additional posts regarding the comparison between the two, however I can't find anything that would explicitly answer my question... Soooo

Is there ever a point where vorpal would out DPS dread? Specifically in a build with a high % of AP gain ? I've been enjoying playing by cw with the burning set ( ap ) and the sigil of the devoted, along with several + app gain items. Since able to fire off dailies so rapidly, I have been using my vorpal instead.

Am i wasting my time there ? Any thoughts?

Comments

  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    I can see one instance in which vorpal would provide a superior damage increase, but that would require:
    - the burning set
    - the snail
    - significant amounts of recovery. At least 5k. Sadly recovery isn't needed on CWs due to spell twisting.
    - you may also have to go fire to benefit from the AP gain class feature.

    You would then have to spam ice storm when there are less than 9 targets and oppressive force when there are more than 9. Ice knife would definitely not be good enough to make the build viable, as ice storm is basically (ice knife damage -10%)*5. You would, however, not be as effective on boss fights with no adds.

    Side note, ice storm is actually the best daily you can use on giants in fangberaker's island and demogorgon phase 1 for obvious reasons, as a dps CW. However, I have yet to witness any of them using this. The bad reputation this spell has is so deeply rooted in people's mind that they forget it's actually a viable option and a fantastic source of damage.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    If you're MoF proly just stay with dread for a debuff role in the party.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    Single target vorp is better than dread, because Ice Knife is such a significant part of your DPS.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,363 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    4 single target encounters are more numbers than an ice knife.
    single target encounters have a lot faster cooldowns than aoe encounters.
    ICE knife is not so good with dread but not also so bad. it stills get boost from dread debuff.
    AND finally ice knife hit hard with enchant or not. So even using dread is good to use it when you have it for single target damage.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User

    Single target vorp is better than dread, because Ice Knife is such a significant part of your DPS.

    Meh even in boss fights ice knife is just a footnote in the logs, especially with less than 1k recovery.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    diogene0 said:

    Single target vorp is better than dread, because Ice Knife is such a significant part of your DPS.

    Meh even in boss fights ice knife is just a footnote in the logs, especially with less than 1k recovery.
    In my logs its 22% of my dps, with storm spell being another ~20%. That is already 40% of your damage not from encounters and it takes 66% of your dps being from encounters for dread to be better.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
    edited September 2016

    diogene0 said:

    Single target vorp is better than dread, because Ice Knife is such a significant part of your DPS.

    Meh even in boss fights ice knife is just a footnote in the logs, especially with less than 1k recovery.
    In my logs its 22% of my dps, with storm spell being another ~20%. That is already 40% of your damage not from encounters and it takes 66% of your dps being from encounters for dread to be better.
    Just found an old log and it was about 12% of my damage on CN's last boss. And yes my CW still has an old pvorpal only. Sudden storm 23 and disintegrate 32. If you're using focused wizardry though this is definitely possible that it could make vorpal competitive in single target fights, as this is the only explanation i see between 12 and 20%.
  • nathan#8975 nathan Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    Thanks guys for chiming in. I'm interested in the idea that viral is better for single target than dread. Obviously you can do a lot more damage to bosses than you can to trash mobs.

    About ice knife... When I was only using my dread, it was so lack luster that in most situations I wouldn't even use it. Instead I would slam OF because between the storm procs and its dot, it was really close if not more damage than my ice knifes were.

    With vorpal my ice knife crits are on par ( and probably higher) than my distentegrate Crits. Literally chunks of boss HP.

    I may keep both enchants and just switch sets between fights. It adds a little bit more fun for me.


    Does anyone else slam OF sometimes in boss fights ? I'm not sure which is better between IK and OF sometimes. It feels like OF helps recharge my AP a lot faster and possibly does comparable damage when it's all said and done. I completely slaughtered a GWF that had over 400 Ilvl on me by doing this
  • furycury82furycury82 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    Off topic, but what logs are you speaking of?
  • craoluscraolus Member Posts: 80 Arc User

    Off topic, but what logs are you speaking of?

    There is a Logs chat channel that shows hits and numbers. PC players have a way to aggregate and analyze them through ACT that isn't available to console players.
  • furycury82furycury82 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    craolus said:

    Off topic, but what logs are you speaking of?

    There is a Logs chat channel that shows hits and numbers. PC players have a way to aggregate and analyze them through ACT that isn't available to console players.
    Is there an actual log saved in saved games or anything? I dare say it would take several hours to compile that data from the chat window.

  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    craolus said:

    Off topic, but what logs are you speaking of?

    There is a Logs chat channel that shows hits and numbers. PC players have a way to aggregate and analyze them through ACT that isn't available to console players.
    Is there an actual log saved in saved games or anything? I dare say it would take several hours to compile that data from the chat window.

    If you are on PC and you type /combatlog 1 it will save the combat log to your game's folder, stored in the sub folder labelled, "logs."
  • furycury82furycury82 Member Posts: 21 Arc User

    craolus said:

    Off topic, but what logs are you speaking of?

    There is a Logs chat channel that shows hits and numbers. PC players have a way to aggregate and analyze them through ACT that isn't available to console players.
    Is there an actual log saved in saved games or anything? I dare say it would take several hours to compile that data from the chat window.

    If you are on PC and you type /combatlog 1 it will save the combat log to your game's folder, stored in the sub folder labelled, "logs."
    Awesome, thanks.
  • masterogamasteroga Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    I saw sharpedge mention spellstorm was 20% of his damage, that is irrelevant as neither vorpal or dread will change it (unless spellstorm offhand feats crit matters one way or the other). Correct?
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    masteroga said:

    I saw sharpedge mention spellstorm was 20% of his damage, that is irrelevant as neither vorpal or dread will change it (unless spellstorm offhand feats crit matters one way or the other). Correct?

    Yes.
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