Please reduce Armor Penetration Resistance from Tenacity and hardcap Damage Resistance in PVP.

defiantone99 · July 2016

Not sure why Tenacity makes it so that you need to have 20k Armor Pen in PVP these days. The rest of the Tenacity stats are pretty low compared to Armor Pen Resist. This makes being competitive in PVP impossible for most players. You pretty much need the Stable boon, to stack Armor Pen and RI, and even buy an Axebeak to penetrate armor. I can't believe this is WAI. It has to be an oversight made when Armor Pen was reworked and Tenacity became so high on gear. Fix Tenacity and cap Damage Resist overall and make PVP work for more players.

santralafax · July 2016

defiantone99 said:
You pretty much need the Stable boon, to stack Armor Pen and RI, and even buy an Axebeak to penetrate armor. I can't believe this is WAI. It has to be an oversight made when Armor Pen was reworked and Tenacity became so high on gear. Fix Tenacity and cap Damage Resist overall and make PVP work for more players.

This is what I did when I played PVP. Otherwise you were hitting with a wet noodle. Tenacity should be less severe on crit--which ruins most PVE builds that concentrate on Azures. You should be able to be competitive with a hybrid build--at least, it used to be that way. I miss PVP, but it became so limiting--and expensive.

thefabricant · July 2016

Stacking armor pen over 20k is a waste, even in pvp. At roughly 16.2k arp, it has worse diminishing returns than power would give you as a boost.

Unknown · July 2016

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vteasy · July 2016

^^agreed with this. To add, there are combos (CW wearing negation, using shield on tab and stacking deflect) that are crazy tanky. I hope this all gets a look over

thefabricant · July 2016

macjae said:

thefabricant said:
Stacking armor pen over 20k is a waste, even in pvp. At roughly 16.2k arp, it has worse diminishing returns than power would give you as a boost.
In principle, there are cases where Armor Penetration is extremely advantageous. For example, if the target is at the DR cap of 80%, possibly even overcapped to offset some DR, and Armor Penetration reduces the target to say, 70% DR, that's a net 50% increase in damage (30% of your damage coming through rather than 20%). That's extremely worthwhile compared to what Power could do in similar amounts.

However, that's not a common outcome -- you will more frequently either encounter targets that have such a low DR that the real damage boost is much lower, or can achieve such a high DR that you can't even get them down to the cap, so you do 20% damage regardless. The practical result is that while there are theoretical cases where Armor Penetration should be highly effective in PvP, the number of other variables bearing on that makes the real effect random, and Power is far more consistent and thus desirable.

This is a problem that arises from having so many different scaling metrics -- two different stat curves, one with diminishing returns, the resistance applied from Tenacity, and then various types of absolute % bonuses that don't follow the stat curves, which effectively get vastly reduced effectiveness in PvP because of that.

@macjae arp has steep diminishing returns if you try to stack it through the roof. I messed around with stacking arp for a while at the request of somebody else and stacked up to 28k arp, there comes a point where even if your opponent still had dr to mitigate, stacking power would give more returns that arp due to arps diminishing returns.

josiahiyon · July 2016

Critical hits are actually very effective against high dr targets. Go strike a pvp dc in hallowed ground and astral shield and divine exaltation. Compare crit to noncrit. You will see that crit does more dmg by the amount of your crit severity.

Against low dr targets, crit is as-you-say: worthless and sometimes actually a hurt. However, it's not correct to say that (1) every class has high dr and (2) Crits are worthless. Those 2 things aren't both true at the same time.

kalina311 · July 2016

+1

defiantone99 said:
In the posts about the changes, it seems that Axebeak, SH boons, Underdark rings and LM/MW gear were not taken into account. The quote was like-NOBODY will go for 100 percent RI. So, now we have players with tons of DR and Defense and tons or ArP. It is time to change Tenacity and add some hard caps to stats.

kalina311 · July 2016

vteasy said:
^^agreed with this. To add, there are combos (CW wearing negation, using shield on tab and stacking deflect) that are crazy tanky. I hope this all gets a look over

Any Class Can stack deflect and equip a negation at the expense of having poor cc immunity due to no elven what type of look over would you like ?
what bis characters/ class are not tanky in pvp ?
how come you did not mention shadowclad ?

mamalion1234 · July 2016

kalina311 said:

vteasy said:
^^agreed with this. To add, there are combos (CW wearing negation, using shield on tab and stacking deflect) that are crazy tanky. I hope this all gets a look over

Any Class Can stack deflect and equip a negation at the expense of having poor cc immunity due to no elven what type of look over would you like ?
what bis characters/ class are not tanky in pvp ?
how come you did not mention shadowclad ?

how you can have poor cc immunity on a ratio of 50% deflection chance and 60% deflect severity( if you are not tr with the pot) when you and all server knows that deflection reduce also the cc duration?
TR without itc and without elven because of the high deflection chance and severity cc doesnt last long!

ABOUT elven disablng chill stacks and other things i am not sure if is wai.

Unknown · July 2016

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foxxy · July 2016

^ I agree with dolrey.
You are asking to reduce (nerf) armp resistance and dmg resistance and make tank classes more vulnerable? Deflection isn't a stat easy to stack and u also want it nerfed or.. "countered". Have u seen the ridicolous damage GWF, warlocks, TR deal? And as the guy above me said, if this happens, tank players and tanky DC like me will be asking for nerf of arm pen. Now, referencing what dolrey said, there is so much survivability from DD toons and so much dmg being dealt by GF and Paladins (a tanky dc will never kill you). Those things, along with dmg boost insignia, should be checked first. Right now the self healing that is not affected by heal depression and shadowtouch are the insignia ones, every source of heal is being halved or affected by this. And what is those healing sources from insignia 900 - 1.5k against 20k damage from a GWF at will, really? I think what you want is to kill tank and dc class immediately. I dont pvp anymore, but sometimes while stealthing in IWD arenas i get caught and i see these results of dmg. So...

Unknown · July 2016

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Unknown · July 2016

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Please reduce Armor Penetration Resistance from Tenacity and hardcap Damage Resistance in PVP.

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