Creeping death and armorpen/RI

gomok72 · July 2016

Dear developers,

I have been testing this out on several BIS subjects on test and it seems that creeping death dots are not affected by any of our offensive stats.

Increase in power still same ticking dots, which is supposedly 60% of our weapon damage, armorpen and crit did not affect creeping death as well.
I have tested with TR and Cleric dots with the same Armorpen, power and crit and have had same duration dots or longer tick on me for 35k (Lowest) to 62k (highest) which is absurd. while I will say, the damage (Dots) in general seem to be an issue it's because none of the offensive stats we have are applying as a modifier to increase the effectiveness of them.

As a "Striker" class, that deals death by dots, we should have this averaged in when creeping death procs, I am hoping you all will look at the performance of the dots and the damnation changes and reconsider putting this out live, as Warlocks are still not a competing class.

Damnation Puppet still needed to be worked on, the damage needs an increase on the Wraith swipes and the Puppet needs to share 100% tenacity of the Warlock to actually be viable in PvP (It still dies in two or three hits). At this point, I am not even sure what is the "ROLE" that the puppet is suppose to perform for the Warlock, since it makes a horrible tank (Even with high deflect which mitigates based on RNG).

Please take a second look at both these dynamics, as those who main and play Warlocks are depending on this.

Thanks,

Kymos

demonmonger · July 2016

Weapon damage is a flat rate.. it has nothing to do with your power stats.

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

divot · July 2016

gomok72 said:

Increase in power still same ticking dots, which is supposedly 60% of our weapon damage, armorpen and crit did not affect creeping death as well.

demonmonger said:
Weapon damage is a flat rate.. it has nothing to do with your power stats.

I don't see anything that says that it deals 60%of weapon damage, as long as i know, it deal 60% of the power damage over 8 seconds and it works fine for pvp for me.
Other thing is that killing curse that deal 15% of your weapon damage keeps dealing 10 - 50 damage in pvp which is understable.

summarizing: If i deal 10'000 damage with a encounter, creeping death will deal 6'000 divided in four ticks, so x4 "1500".
Now you gotta remember that there are some ways to obtain DoT resist, so your creeping death won't deal full damage, also some boons can absorb little damages like cold shoulder.

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

gomok72 · July 2016

demonmonger said:
Weapon damage is a flat rate.. it has nothing to do with your power stats.

I know it's "Suppose" to be a flat rate, but it isn't in PvP, again overall damage is suppose to be 60% of our weapon damage when I average out on my min-max for my weapon it doesn't equal out to be 52 to 100 damage.

My point being, they need to look at this because it is a failed dynamic that our creeping death can be mitigated like that and we have no other high bursting ability in PVP.

gomok72 · July 2016

macjae said:
Creeping Death is bugged. It is supposed to deal 60% of your initial damage, but the damage gets mitigated twice.

For example, if you deal 10,000 damage, and the opponent's tenacity, DR, deflection and other defenses reduces that to 1,000, then Creeping Death procs off of the latter number. It ticks four times, for a total of 600, or 150 damage per tick. However, if the same mitigation as before applies, each tick also gets mitigated down to 15 damage.

Essentially, the 60% bonus damage from Creeping Death gets reduced by whatever mitigation the opponent has. If incoming damage is reduced by 50%, the real bonus damage from Creeping Death is 30%, if it is reduced by 90%, the real bonus damage become 6%, and so on.

In order to fix that, Creeping Death should deal piercing damage based off of the mitigated initial damage. That means it would always be a true 60%.

You actually have tested like I have, if the tool tip says 60% of weapon damage, then regardless of how much tenacity you have, it should be ticking for that much. I am telling you guys, they need to do something to keep Warlock's damage consistant in PvP, if you are hitting a GF that has 200k hitpoints for 18 damage per everything, what's the point of even having Creeping death if everyone else's dots are ticking for insane amounts?

Full tenacity geared 4.2 IL TR bleeds ticking on me for 50-65k, GF "New" ticking on me for a total of 40k damage, Cleric's dots ticking on me for insane amounts (there seemed to be based on how much their power was buffed). Again, I am trying to get the developers to look at this stuff before they put the so called changes into the game permanently (It will take them another 10 mods to help this class, trust me).

Again, since we are not a burst class, make us a better "Death by Dot" class.

-Kymos

gomok72 · July 2016

Double post

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

gomok72 · July 2016

poopoomcmuffns said:
If you tested, why didnt you notice the double mitigation? I wish xbox had access to act, but we are just lowly console gamers. I always thought creeping death was pointless in pvp but never actually compared the numbers and i generally took it as a disadvantage, which is why until recently when i was fury i didnt take the capstone. I only took it this time around because i have been playing a little more pve.

I did send this to the bugged section, so developers could look at what's going on with creeping death, "Hopefully". I only tested this against individuals that had very high DR, through stacked enchant defense, armor stats, and tenacity. I noticed the biggest drop in our damage from creeping death with tenacity (went from 500-600 damage to 18-23) when elemental PvP gear was equipped.

I didn't notice a double mitigation, I just noticed a severe mitigation when tenacity came into play while testing and thought that this was buggy, strange or just not calculating right.

I'll have ACT ran again, when I jump over and see if I can get Icy or someone legitimately tough in the PvP community to help with this (I can't use people wearing pokemon rings and such because it gives flawed results against people that actually build for PvP).

Now the individual tanks that I had this tested against didn't even have SW Ward or Negation on, so could you imagine what another 10% reduction on top of Negation's 30% would do to our creeping death dot's damage?

I even went full offensive build for this, so I could actually kill something, as fast as possible.

HAMSTER, you should always take the Fury capstone if you are full Fury, no exceptions. Also, again, I have to remind you that I am testing this stuff against the "BEST players in the game for PvP", I did not bother to test against people with less than IL 4.2 and my views and stand point come from that (Developers, I don't believe test from a 4.2 IL stand point).

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

gomok72 · July 2016

poopoomcmuffns said:
Shoukd probably put this post in the preview/feedback section tho.

HAMSTER,
I was told to put this in the feed back area, I did bug this and hope the developers look at this before we have a ton of frustrated Warlocks dying again in the new NCL.

I am waiting on other Warlocks to chime in on this "If they are still playing the game.

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

gomok72 · July 2016

etelgrin said:
Creeping Death is DoT based on 60% of what you put in necrotic damage into capstone to the target affected by warlock's curse so only tab, done in 8 seconds. Not 60% of weapon damage.

Okay, maybe I am misreading this, let me log on and read this again man, so many of these abilities throw me off by the description given or explained. Also, that doesn't make sense to me being that we don't have huge necrotic damage with at wills per say. I know this has changed to reflect all damage but for some odd reason man, it seems like I am doing a whole lot less damage now. from live, unbuffed, unguilded, and without pot/insignia/companion/ buffs.

Maybe it's something I am doing incorrectly, I'm all ears when it comes to getting help with this (the more pair of ACT logs, and eyes, the better).

Where the hell is Sophie and Misery, when you need them!?

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

schietindebux · July 2016

It's the same nonesense wich affects the templock in PVP.
The healing done get's deminished two times, leading to incredible heals like...18

ACT allways showed how bad CD's output was in PVP, sometging about <6%, getting punished two times

It's since 5mods now experiencing logs like
"Your hadar grasp dealt 187 damage to GF XY"
"Bullcharge dealt 90000 crit damage to you"
There is and will be no big change about that i fear.

gomok72 · July 2016

macjae said:

gomok72 said:
You actually have tested like I have, if the tool tip says 60% of weapon damage, then regardless of how much tenacity you have, it should be ticking for that much.
It's not 60% of weapon damage, never have been. It's 60% of your total damage from an attack, whether that hits for 100 damage or 100,000. However, as I pointed out, buffs and mitigation are applied separately again to Creeping Death ticks, which makes them bad in PvP and potentially awesome in PvE.

Yeah, I knew it was over a period of time, just thought it was a constant of weapon damage, due to misreading.
Still, the damage is subpar damage, I don't know how this HAMSTER is calculating ans it's starting to irritate me because I logically can't figure out the formula for our dots versus the DR of GF, CW with bubble, Clerics that increase their DR and the likes.

I appreciate the input, but I am starting to get frustrated with this, the developers have enough information on this, I think and should put what we are saying to use or test it for themselves at least. I know the changes are still not done, but I have a feeling they are getting close.

Again, I thank everyone who has helped me test this for another 5 hours on test server.

I think I am going to play around with different enchantment set ups to find the best for dps, I'l start with Radiants/Azures and end tests will be with Hybrids (Brutals and Vicious) I think. Had Nasty Shauna test a all crit build with rank 12 enchants and it was worse than the armor pen build (Thanks to the tenacity formula for crit mitigation), sigh.

schietindebux · July 2016

gomok72 said:

macjae said:

gomok72 said:
You actually have tested like I have, if the tool tip says 60% of weapon damage, then regardless of how much tenacity you have, it should be ticking for that much.
It's not 60% of weapon damage, never have been. It's 60% of your total damage from an attack, whether that hits for 100 damage or 100,000. However, as I pointed out, buffs and mitigation are applied separately again to Creeping Death ticks, which makes them bad in PvP and potentially awesome in PvE.
Yeah, I knew it was over a period of time, just thought it was a constant of weapon damage, due to misreading.
Still, the damage is subpar damage, I don't know how this **** is calculating ans it's starting to irritate me because I logically can't figure out the formula for our dots versus the DR of GF, CW with bubble, Clerics that increase their DR and the likes.

I appreciate the input, but I am starting to get frustrated with this, the developers have enough information on this, I think and should put what we are saying to use or test it for themselves at least. I know the changes are still not done, but I have a feeling they are getting close.

Again, I thank everyone who has helped me test this for another 5 hours on test server.

I think I am going to play around with different enchantment set ups to find the best for dps, I'l start with Radiants/Azures and end tests will be with Hybrids (Brutals and Vicious) I think. Had Nasty Shauna test a all crit build with rank 12 enchants and it was worse than the armor pen build (Thanks to the tenacity formula for crit mitigation), sigh.

Problem is , we can´t stack arp/RI like GF or GWF, them getting it from stats/feats and powers.
We do not have a power or feats like SE ignoring defense, we even do not have piercing damage as far as I know.
AS fury your cap stone obviously is punished twice, being lowered once according to the dealt damage and again punished because it´s no piercing and gets deminished again... bad design.
As templock you hardly will even kill BIS classes like GWF/GF or TR same way they can kill you. You can hover around and look at the landscape, hard to kill true, but not impossible at all because there is allways one TR, GF or GWF arround.
On top your heals get deminished by healing depression two times resulting in redicules heals.
Being an easy task for 3 classes can´t be considered as a good position in PVP if you are not able to kill most classes on the other hand.
Did anyone test a high-power build skipping arp and focus on power instead? I never did so.

gomok72 · July 2016

schietindebux said:

gomok72 said:

macjae said:

gomok72 said:
You actually have tested like I have, if the tool tip says 60% of weapon damage, then regardless of how much tenacity you have, it should be ticking for that much.
It's not 60% of weapon damage, never have been. It's 60% of your total damage from an attack, whether that hits for 100 damage or 100,000. However, as I pointed out, buffs and mitigation are applied separately again to Creeping Death ticks, which makes them bad in PvP and potentially awesome in PvE.
Yeah, I knew it was over a period of time, just thought it was a constant of weapon damage, due to misreading.
Still, the damage is subpar damage, I don't know how this **** is calculating ans it's starting to irritate me because I logically can't figure out the formula for our dots versus the DR of GF, CW with bubble, Clerics that increase their DR and the likes.

I appreciate the input, but I am starting to get frustrated with this, the developers have enough information on this, I think and should put what we are saying to use or test it for themselves at least. I know the changes are still not done, but I have a feeling they are getting close.

Again, I thank everyone who has helped me test this for another 5 hours on test server.

I think I am going to play around with different enchantment set ups to find the best for dps, I'l start with Radiants/Azures and end tests will be with Hybrids (Brutals and Vicious) I think. Had Nasty Shauna test a all crit build with rank 12 enchants and it was worse than the armor pen build (Thanks to the tenacity formula for crit mitigation), sigh.

Problem is , we can´t stack arp/RI like GF or GWF, them getting it from stats/feats and powers.
We do not have a power or feats like SE ignoring defense, we even do not have piercing damage as far as I know.
AS fury your cap stone obviously is punished twice, being lowered once according to the dealt damage and again punished because it´s no piercing and gets deminished again... bad design.
As templock you hardly will even kill BIS classes like GWF/GF or TR same way they can kill you. You can hover around and look at the landscape, hard to kill true, but not impossible at all because there is allways one TR, GF or GWF arround.
On top your heals get deminished by healing depression two times resulting in redicules heals.
Being an easy task for 3 classes can´t be considered as a good position in PVP if you are not able to kill most classes on the other hand.
Did anyone test a high-power build skipping arp and focus on power instead? I never did so.

I currently don't have any SH power boons on test and will have to wait until the changes go live to play around with this even more (Should be a test guild rank 20 test server to join, provided by the devs or mock buffs to do good testing).

I think we will be just stuck with this and have to test it when it does hit live.

On a note, the CW, GF, and TRs we tested with did not have guild buffs,

The 2 Rangers we fought got ate up pretty quick by the dots, one was not in full tenacity gear and it was not upgraded to elemental (Had PvE rings on). Both Rangers did however hit a bit more harder than the usual on live server. The GWF we fought ate me and Shauna up pretty quick "Wammy", he was on Icy's level (We expected that though). The new skills that were buffed seemed to be nullified by the Ranger's CC still, when I fought them (I had a hard time getting it off to test the mitigation buffs we supposedly got).

Again,

Wanted to thank
Shauna
Wammy
Merciless
Willow
NightHawk
Liverpool
Siulents
and Casper for being test dummies

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

hadestemplar · July 2016

Personally I would love to remove this feat at all. Because now its bound warlock to use DoT encounters, because fire based splash dmg do not proc Creeping death so much as Necrotic ones.
I rather replace Creeping Death with feat which would boost dmg output over all.
Mechanic like: rampaging madness, blood lust from twisted arti weapon set, or sas [Ring of Rising Power +5] does. Or as Cw's rene have Chaos Magic.
And by fighting warlock get stack which boost x% dmg output for ~4s, and this can be stacked up to 10 times. And if warlock stop hitting effect is removed.
So this would provide overall dmg boost regardless what kind offensive powers u will use, fire/necrotic/daily whatever.

Now its looks kinda funny. U hit with DoT power, then run, and victim chasing u while his dmg is drained due DoT. And u pray your luck that u stacked enoug of Creeping death and it will kill enemy before he catch you.

gomok72 · July 2016

bloodyspamer said:
Personally I would love to remove this feat at all. Because now its bound warlock to use DoT encounters, because fire based splash dmg do not proc Creeping death so much as Necrotic ones.
I rather replace Creeping Death with feat which would boost dmg output over all.
Mechanic like: rampaging madness, blood lust from twisted arti weapon set, or sas [Ring of Rising Power +5] does. Or as Cw's rene have Chaos Magic.
And by fighting warlock get stack which boost x% dmg output for ~4s, and this can be stacked up to 10 times. And if warlock stop hitting effect is removed.
So this would provide overall dmg boost regardless what kind offensive powers u will use, fire/necrotic/daily whatever.

Now its looks kinda funny. U hit with DoT power, then run, and victim chasing u while his dmg is drained due DoT. And u pray your luck that u stacked enoug of Creeping death and it will kill enemy before he catch you.

I think this is changed now, fire and necrotic was proccing creeping death which is good in PvE and to a certain degree in PvP (Against ungeared, newb, players).

And Macjae, thanks for the formula, I'm going to sit down with some paper, calculator to give my conclusion numbers on GF with certain DR and such.

As of now, I am thinking about playing my GF (First choice) or my TR in PvP, just because how his is working in PvP now, having BIS gear on a Warlock for PvP is a straight waste now (Just my opinion, as someone will find a crazy build that works for everyone).

hadestemplar · July 2016

gomok72 said:

I think this is changed now, fire and necrotic was proccing creeping death which is good in PvE and to a certain degree in PvP (Against ungeared, newb, players)

Yes, I know about changes. I tracking all warlocks changes..

And thats why I wrote" I would love that Creeping Death feat would be removed and replaced with more buffing over all dmg output or boost up offensive stats(arp,crit,power) rather just applying DoT effect. "

etelgrin said:

Chillax there guys, thats why I suggested to make the hits from Creeping Death piercing. Nobody gets hurt in PvE for this, and in PvP these 1k-2k hits will be actually felt a bit I think cause the healing is still radiculous enough to outheal this damage even if they make it piercing, thats why I suggested to distrubute this damage through 4 seconds instead of 8.

Next thing is, Creeping Death alone isn't affected by anything no buffing to this in PvP/PvE. You can get buffed in PvP too you know? Regardless, the CD is stronger in PvE because base hits are incredibly strong, marked targets with TT gets +40% hits, the spread damage is also quite generous and constant especially if you mark 3 targets and stand in there with BoVA, doing DT then spamming soul scorches, then the Creeping Death is powerful because the encounters damage put into capstone make huge DoTs even if most mobs die faster than the final hit gots delivered. In PvP this isn't happening because the damage thats going on is far smaller in compare to PvE damage and mobs health vs. players targets health.

Looks like u didn't add new changes... Tyrannical Threat dmg boost reduced from 40% to 20%. Next now u can have only 1 target cursed by this daily power..

Creeping death and armorpen/RI

Comments