Support classes are less important than DPS

masteroga · June 2016

This has been bothering me for a while. Dragon Hoard enchantments, Fey Blessing, Wanderer's, etc all require you to KILL an enemy.

In a dungeon, the support classes are equally responsible for a fast clear...why are they only receiving 5% as much refinement?

blackyluke · June 2016

Weird title, since you explain it is actually not the case.
Doing solo content is more difficult for supportive classes or rather supportive build characters indeed.
I would argue that buffing and debuffing is the thing that enables damage dealers to really do their job, but alright.
The good supports walk a stony path to do their solo content, just remember you are doing the right thing.
Best thing is to play with friends, guildies or alliance partners - life is easier that way.

masteroga · June 2016

Provocative titles get views

Anyways....why hasn't this been fixed by now? It's as simple as a roll off that the game is already so fond of using. Enemy dies....he is then divided out by every ones "when enemy dies " percentage and rolled against it.

Example: I have a full suite of rank 12 utility giving me a 25% chance to turn a dead enemy into refinement. 3 of my teammates are all running 11s for 20% each, and the last teammate only has 5%. So when an enemies dies, I would expect to get it 27.7% of the time, the 3 other teammates 22.2% and the last guy 5.5%.

Obviously they would need to adjust the internal cooldown in dungeons since we would all be sharing drops.

pr3stigex · June 2016

Or just give everyone credit for the kill and let there own dice roll individually

zman81420 · June 2016

Hmm now that you have brought this up....I've been in on hundreds of orcus kills and no achievement. I'm a GF.

masteroga · June 2016

Independent dice roll....too simple lol. But yes....i suppose that is infinitely less complicated

gamertothebone · June 2016

This is actually causing problems imo

people do not want to play anything but the killers in parties anymore as they want to get refinement

It would seem obvious while in a group all members of a group should get equal credit for all things killed when it comes to things like Hoard Ench or Wonderer's fortune

Otherwise people have to not group if they want their support classes to get drops

Or if they lucky enough to have a 2nd dps char they either try to find a group where now it is harder to make one with no one wanting to play DC or sometimes OP and the new groupfinder forcing a group to have these classes.

Guess it is better we got it now as it is then it being held back until it was perfect

It would be nice to see someone say it is a issue that will be fixed in the future tho

nightranger7477 · June 2016

I'm a pally and just got the orcus kills achievement this weekend after 50 or so runs, I tend to do much more dps when I run pugs, but to the op yes it does seem to be slanted in dps classes favor as far as refinement drops are concerned, there should be a shorter cool down time implemented for all support classes imo.

curygreenleaf69 · June 2016

nightranger7477 said:
I'm a pally and just got the orcus kills achievement this weekend after 50 or so runs, I tend to do much more dps when I run pugs, but to the op yes it does seem to be slanted in dps classes favor as far as refinement drops are concerned, there should be a shorter cool down time implemented for all support classes imo.

Then there is a new wave of DPS Clerics, no this will not do.

gamertothebone · June 2016

curygreenleaf69 said:

nightranger7477 said:
I'm a pally and just got the orcus kills achievement this weekend after 50 or so runs, I tend to do much more dps when I run pugs, but to the op yes it does seem to be slanted in dps classes favor as far as refinement drops are concerned, there should be a shorter cool down time implemented for all support classes imo.
Then there is a new wave of DPS Clerics, no this will not do.

Clerics will just start letting people die at the right time so they can get kills for refinement

satniteeduardo · June 2016

Well if we want full balance (and for the record I run 8 toons - 1 of each) we need to make it so when we queue we have an equal chance of getting into a dungeon. At the moment the queue system favours support classes.

asjohnson · June 2016

satniteeduardo said:
Well if we want full balance (and for the record I run 8 toons - 1 of each) we need to make it so when we queue we have an equal chance of getting into a dungeon. At the moment the queue system favours support classes.

It doesn't "favor" support classes, there is just so many more people running DPS that the 3 DPS spots get filled very quickly so the only spots left are for support. I know it has been said millions of times, but if you wanna guarantee you get into a dungeon.....form a group before hand. I don't see how/why that is so hard for some people. I am literally always spamming PE/Mantol asking for other people for dungeons. Example: CN 1/5. NEED: 1DC, 1GF, 2DPS. Then I get 20 messages, mainly from DPS, but I eventually get a group. Not that difficult, depending on the time of day at least.

satniteeduardo · June 2016

asjohnson#4476 said:

satniteeduardo said:
Well if we want full balance (and for the record I run 8 toons - 1 of each) we need to make it so when we queue we have an equal chance of getting into a dungeon. At the moment the queue system favours support classes.
It doesn't "favor" support classes, there is just so many more people running DPS that the 3 DPS spots get filled very quickly so the only spots left are for support. I know it has been said millions of times, but if you wanna guarantee you get into a dungeon.....form a group before hand. I don't see how/why that is so hard for some people. I am literally always spamming PE/Mantol asking for other people for dungeons. Example: CN 1/5. NEED: 1DC, 1GF, 2DPS. Then I get 20 messages, mainly from DPS, but I eventually get a group. Not that difficult, depending on the time of day at least.

My sincere apologies - the "outcomes" of the new queue system favour support classes. Sure we all know the methods to get in a group but even then what are groups looking for in the main? Support classes.

And even then people do not understand how to take advantage of private queues.

The reality is the way a lot of people play the game it is easier to get into dungeons as support classes no matter what method is used.

asjohnson · June 2016

That wouldn't be the case if so many more people were not DPS. If more people were Support then the argument would be flip-flopped. It's not the queues fault that everyone feels like they need to be killing instead of supporting.

crysta11ine · June 2016

The purpose of this post was to point out that support classes get significantly less refinement (if any at all) out of dungeon runs. Maybe the last few posters misunderstood the post?

Anyways, I don't understand why this hasn't been fixed. Just assign a dice roll after the mob has been killed, based on the party members' enchants.

gamertothebone · June 2016

crysta11ine said:
The purpose of this post was to point out that support classes get significantly less refinement (if any at all) out of dungeon runs. Maybe the last few posters misunderstood the post?

Anyways, I don't understand why this hasn't been fixed. Just assign a dice roll after the mob has been killed, based on the party members' enchants.

IMO the fix is easy

Every kill matters for every group member

When it a group all chances of drop for kills are divided on the number of group members.

You got a 10% Hoard with a 4% WF

In a group of two divide that by 2 and count every kill. (5% Hoard and 2% WF)

In a group of three divide by that 3 and count every kill. (3.33% Hoard and 1.33% WF)

IMO they truly want to encourage grouping...seems like they do....then this is an obvious direction path for evolution. Resource management may not allow it to get done for a certain amount of time but it should be on the list of things to do.

Right now the dps are getting an insane amount of drops in groups.

Since most players are dps then I am sure most players are happy about the current way of things.

It gives even more reason for players to stop playing support classes and start playing dps

Which touches back on the que system which is already having slow times for dps

If anything you would think they would come up with some kind of system that favors the support classes so more people play them and then TADA!! Shorter que times for everyone

satniteeduardo · June 2016

crysta11ine said:
The purpose of this post was to point out that support classes get significantly less refinement (if any at all) out of dungeon runs. Maybe the last few posters misunderstood the post?

Anyways, I don't understand why this hasn't been fixed. Just assign a dice roll after the mob has been killed, based on the party members' enchants.

I am suggesting the game has multiple imbalances that even out. DCs can get straight in a dungeon. If you try and balance one thing then you would need to try and balance everything to make it fair.

crysta11ine · June 2016

This is irrelevant to the mechanic we are discussing. With a good group you will be getting little/nothing. 0 x the # of extra runs is still 0. If you want to suggest fixes to the queue system do so in another thread.

If you really have "8 characters" you would know how much more a gwf sw cw etc get in a run...its night and day when I switch from my cleric to a dps.

asjohnson · June 2016

I have been wondering though....how is the Shard dropped? Like can it only drop if you get credit for the Orcus kill? If so, then that is absolute BS. Only reason I am asking is because I have gotten 2 Shards to drop, 1 on my GWF and 1 on my SW. I have run my gf/pally/dc a lot more than my gwf/sw combined, but my support classes have not gotten the drop. I know its probably just the RNG system, but what if they did put the mechanic in where only DPS can get the drop, just like only DPS gets credit for the kill?!?!

Support classes are less important than DPS

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