Taketh...but giveth too please...

rhadamathys · April 2016

I'm fine with nerfs and game balance...but don't just take thinks away, give us something in return...and I'm not asking for free handouts...here's what I mean..

Leadership gets nerfed, however, leveling up leadership remains painful...the best you can do at level 20 is 3x 240xp, 3x 160xp, 3x 120xp...whereas every other profession you can do 9x 700... So fine, take away ad but either reduce costs needed to level or increase task xp to match other similar professions.

Bubble gets nerfed...awesome, I'm good with that, but there is no indication that one shots are being fixed...bubble is necessary as mobs do 200-300k dmg and most hp is between 90-150k...i firmly think this is broken as it never gives you a chance...esp if there is lag...yes soul forge can help but even with good tactics it comes down to simply being unfair...

Lostmauth set gets nerfed, ok I like it...but some of us have invested a lot to get it to legendary...if we move to new set we only get 80% refinement...how about a one time, anyone who has legendary set gets free rp to make up for the lost refinement? Or make it so legendary Lostmauth geives you 100% refinement into another set?

I'm sure there are others, but this is just a start...please consider giving AND taking

thefiresidecat · April 2016

gawd this would be nice (and fair considering) seconded.

destrowod · April 2016

Destro WOD aprove this post

Unknown · April 2016

This content has been removed.

zelinktheone3 · April 2016

rhadamathys said:
I'm fine with nerfs and game balance...but don't just take thinks away, give us something in return...and I'm not asking for free handouts...here's what I mean..

Leadership gets nerfed, however, leveling up leadership remains painful...the best you can do at level 20 is 3x 240xp, 3x 160xp, 3x 120xp...whereas every other profession you can do 9x 700... So fine, take away ad but either reduce costs needed to level or increase task xp to match other similar professions.

Bubble gets nerfed...awesome, I'm good with that, but there is no indication that one shots are being fixed...bubble is necessary as mobs do 200-300k dmg and most hp is between 90-150k...i firmly think this is broken as it never gives you a chance...esp if there is lag...yes soul forge can help but even with good tactics it comes down to simply being unfair...

Lostmauth set gets nerfed, ok I like it...but some of us have invested a lot to get it to legendary...if we move to new set we only get 80% refinement...how about a one time, anyone who has legendary set gets free rp to make up for the lost refinement? Or make it so legendary Lostmauth geives you 100% refinement into another set?

I'm sure there are others, but this is just a start...please consider giving AND taking

Leadership should not be made easier as it has arguably the best end result. If it became easier to level, it would actually hurt the game imo.

Tanks need to learn how to actually tank and other people need to learn how to dodge and stay out of the big red indicators saying, "Hi, damage will happen here, MOVE!". I can see lower leveled/geared players having some trouble, so some adjustments on that end would make sense and I can back that up. However, beyond maybe 2,700 item level groups, groups should not be struggling too much. T2s might take a bit of effort, but if they were super easy as soon as you get to them, then they serve no real purpose or challenge (aka pallies made everyone handicapped). I remember when the content got released and our main tank made a pally because we were told, by PC players, that the content will be too hard. We started the double bubble strat to see if something would work (and then that became the meta for most people, which was dumb). Less than a week after the content came out, our main tank went back on their tank and we tried the dungeons out to see how 'bad' it was. It wasn't bad at all, but of course, he is a really good tank (except when he's tired, worst tank NA/EU/Galaxy at that point).

As for the Lostmauth set, who says most people are going to actually switch sets yet? The actual set outside of the bonus is solid for most, if not all dps characters. That and the fact that the other set bonuses are still worse than the nerfed version of this set bonus. There are maybe 2 other sets potentially worth changing to, one being the new set we can obtain in CN when we get mod 9, which leads to my next point. When we get 'new' sets, why should we get a free legendary pass-over to this brand new gear? If YOU want that gear, you should obtain it and get the rp for it, not to mention that 400k rp isn't that bad for a change of gear for an entire mod, if you even choose to stick with whatever set you change to.

I understand what you're trying to get at, these just don't seem to have much leverage though.

armadeonx · April 2016

erm, not really. I have 3 characters with Leadership at 25 & whilst it's useful for making some refining stones etc, it's not THAT useful. Getting it up to 25 in 2 weeks instead of 2 months doesn't really alter anything - other than making refining stones cheaper on the AH due to more people levelling it - and I suspect that's your real objection - that it will affect your personal income?

"Tanks need to learn how to actually tank and other people need to learn how to dodge and stay out of the big red indicators" is such an old refrain that I'm quite bored seeing it again.

You'll be surprised how quickly people get used to dodging once the bubble goes - it's just completely unnecessary atm. The bigger issue is the tanking & DR skills of the pally. Quite simply, the aggro generation for pallys is inferior to that of the GF - as is their passive group damage reduction. 12.5% compared to 50%. This didn't matter when they could stay bubbled all the time but now it does matter.

As such, to balance out the bubble nerf, the devs should've increased aggro generation and passive DR.

I'm not actually that bothered by the Lostmauth set - it is what it is.

zelinktheone3 · April 2016

armadeonx said:
erm, not really. I have 3 characters with Leadership at 25 & whilst it's useful for making some refining stones etc, it's not THAT useful. Getting it up to 25 in 2 weeks instead of 2 months doesn't really alter anything - other than making refining stones cheaper on the AH due to more people levelling it - and I suspect that's your real objection - that it will affect your personal income?

"Tanks need to learn how to actually tank and other people need to learn how to dodge and stay out of the big red indicators" is such an old refrain that I'm quite bored seeing it again.

You'll be surprised how quickly people get used to dodging once the bubble goes - it's just completely unnecessary atm. The bigger issue is the tanking & DR skills of the pally. Quite simply, the aggro generation for pallys is inferior to that of the GF - as is their passive group damage reduction. 12.5% compared to 50%. This didn't matter when they could stay bubbled all the time but now it does matter.

As such, to balance out the bubble nerf, the devs should've increased aggro generation and passive DR.

I'm not actually that bothered by the Lostmauth set - it is what it is.

No, my objection is changing one of the few 'unique' professions. All the professions are the same line-up, except for Black Ice, Alchemy, & Leadership. Let alone, they should take time. Don't make assumptions.

As for the pally discussion, you're not actually responding to what I said in terms of what I responded to. I'll quote what I was responding to specifically, "Bubble gets nerfed...awesome, I'm good with that, but there is no indication that one shots are being fixed...bubble is necessary " No where in the comment I responded to did it talk about changes to the actual pally to make the pally usable. Therefore I don't get why you're responding to my response to him on that matter. In my eyes, the pally could just disappear. However, since it will not, I can agree that if it's going to have a tank aspect, it should in fact be able to tank, just not at the level of bubble, obviously.

And you think people dodge without a bubble? All I see in eLoL with or without pallies is people not dodging and then usually quitting. I can solo the dungeon and I've still had people leave my lobby because there are no pallies. Yes, there are moments where a tank is needed in this game, but there are also plenty of moments they aren't needed.

kreatyve · April 2016

rhadamathys said:
I'm fine with nerfs and game balance...but don't just take thinks away, give us something in return...and I'm not asking for free handouts...here's what I mean..

Leadership gets nerfed, however, leveling up leadership remains painful...the best you can do at level 20 is 3x 240xp, 3x 160xp, 3x 120xp...whereas every other profession you can do 9x 700... So fine, take away ad but either reduce costs needed to level or increase task xp to match other similar professions.

Bubble gets nerfed...awesome, I'm good with that, but there is no indication that one shots are being fixed...bubble is necessary as mobs do 200-300k dmg and most hp is between 90-150k...i firmly think this is broken as it never gives you a chance...esp if there is lag...yes soul forge can help but even with good tactics it comes down to simply being unfair...

Lostmauth set gets nerfed, ok I like it...but some of us have invested a lot to get it to legendary...if we move to new set we only get 80% refinement...how about a one time, anyone who has legendary set gets free rp to make up for the lost refinement? Or make it so legendary Lostmauth geives you 100% refinement into another set?

I'm sure there are others, but this is just a start...please consider giving AND taking

Leadership: Xbox doesn't have this just yet, but they have recently changed the 2x Professions event to include double profession experience for almost all professions. With Alchemy, you obviously can't get double XP, but instead you get double research on your successes during the event, so you can level it faster. With Black Ice Shaping, during the event you now only need half the resources to upgrade to rank 4 Black Ice Shaping (I can't remember about ranking up to rank 5). So that is what they gave us for that.

Bubble: I get what you are saying, but if you read the blog completely, you would see the reasons why this had to be done. They aren't taking it away completely. It's just going to require much more skill to use effectively, because OPs are going have to use it at the right times, rather than all the time, which made all content trivial. However, keep in mind that this is just the first step in a long road of balancing. There will be more class changes coming.

Lostmauth set: I agree, I would like it to be 100% refinement onto another set, and will forward the suggestion.

destrowod · April 2016

@kreatyve

My problem with the "balancing" is that people work hard to get somewhere and when this does happen, its taking away stuff from them... Its like "you worked so hard for this, but sorry bro, now its just half good" . This is for both the DPS Lostmauth and the Pally.

I don't PVP, and maybe those changes are needed for PVP, i think a bubble in PVP is totally "what the heck" in the first place. But when it comes to PVE...

Yes yes ok being almost invincible is not challenging i agree. And somewhat i understand this is done to the pally. But then my grip is that the dungeons should be made in a way that 5 DPS can do it for exemple. Why is the spider priestess such a sponge as the end? Take so much time to kill her.

My grip is that in the current form we run those dungeons cause we need the stuff in them, either for guild coffer or salvage etc. So it need to be "Easy" and quick. I would have no problem if some dungeons where extremely hard, but upon completing them, they would give 50K AD, a stash of 10 pieces of equipements, and 20 refining stones... I know that they make the boss a sponge cause some ultra beast will DPS her in 30 sec to death. But most of us are not gueared like that and thus why dungeons that we need to farm (coffer for exemple) should be doable easily by anybody that have the required IS wich is 2000. High level geared mega beast would have there own dungeons... wich would not give anything special but just more of the stuff needed. Its just an idea obviously.

Now granted im not saying the absence of a pally will make T2s that hard, i did tank them with just a cleric in the past and its totally doable. But its another class requirement ... Finish the time where we could run with 4 dps and a pally. Sometimes its not always possible to get the cleric and the tank together. All you have is DPS ..

Im just feeling this update for the pally will not make things that harder, but just less convenient... running won't be possible as often as before. But i could be wrong on this.

kreatyve · April 2016

@destrowod May I ask - is this your first MMO? As someone who has played a lot of MMOs over the years, I can tell you, this is how they all work. You work hard to get something. A patch or 2 later, that something you have worked so hard to obtain is no longer as wanted or valuable as it once was. Sometimes it takes a long time for the item to be changed, sometimes it's soon, but nothing stays BiS forever.

With the new queue system that is currently live on PC, and coming to Xbox next month, you will have to have 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 DPS classes to do 5 man dungeon content unless you private queue. This has been the trifecta of MMOs since the early days of WoW. While on Neverwinter, it's been far more flexable, and most people have gotten into a "use 5 DPS and burn everything into the ground" mentality, it is my belief that the devs are trying to steer people away from that, to a more traditional group composition.

Perhaps people wanting "easy" and "quick" content should do something that's well below their item level. You can still get AD from doing leveling dungeons, and generally at level 70 you can just plow through the stuff much faster, and sometimes 1 shot bosses, lol. While you don't get the salvage or the seals (which I know is a big part of wanting to run the tier 2s), you do get the AD for finishing a dungeon and can probably run 4 or 5 of the leveling dungeons in the time it takes you to run 1 tier 2.

The paladin changes are going to make the GF a lot more relevant now. Too many parties aren't willing to run even Lostmauth without a pally, and GF many times get neglected because of this.

armadeonx · April 2016

Already it's the case that lower geared groups runs with a Pally for the protection whilst higher geared run with a GF for the buffs.

They should've introduced increased aggro from Divine Call & the DR from Aura of Protection from 12.5% to at least 30% to compensate.

The thing is, by the time an "oh ****" (as the devs called it) arrives, your party of 2-2.5k players is already dead because they can't take more than 1 hit from anything. This means saving the bubble for those moments is pointless in most cases.

A GF has 50% party wide DR. Tell me again how this makes them balanced.

xrawcarnage · April 2016

I'm actually good with all the changes. Seriously, the end game content is too easy even for non bis players. So tweaking things to add some diffuculty is good with me.

On the leadership note- leadership essentially still makes you ad if you sell the rp stones. In same sense can save you ad because you make stones instead of buying as many on the th. It is a terrible grind but it pays off very well.

vaultingfrog · April 2016

I am not looking forward to the destruction of my pally. Yes it needs tweeks (like many other things) but its near removal of its entire purpose in the game is just stupid to me.

End game content shouldnt be easy, I get that. But when people are trying to get geared it is rather difficult to do so because you have to run end game content for that gear. A crew of 2.1k IL is not a fun time going through GWD, even with a pally or two.

mcgwarface · May 2016

Always have in mind balance. You are trivializing a class with this. This nerf is a good thing for PVP. It is not well thought out for PVE. Should have separated the two.

Reduction to 6 sec is fine if you would increase damage resistance and aggro to help the group. Without that you have destroyed the class for those pallys under 3k GS for T2s or harder. It really hurts PUGs.

I think the hidden agenda is they know players will roll another class and potentialy increase profit. Bad move in regards to customer satisfaction. All that said.......I have faith the devs will do the right thing and help the pallies at some point after this.

Unknown · May 2016

This content has been removed.

unitedweevil679 · May 2016

I'm curious with the pally nerf and given respect if there will be a way to trade our gems. Who needs a stack of rank 12 silvery when you turn into a healadin. Better to have radiants.

Unknown · May 2016

This content has been removed.

armadeonx · May 2016

nope

ecrana · May 2016

unitedweevil679#9682 said:
I'm curious with the pally nerf and given respect if there will be a way to trade our gems. Who needs a stack of rank 12 silvery when you turn into a healadin. Better to have radiants.

You'll probably need to look at selling them on the AH and buying your radiants. I don't see any reason why they would be willing to let you trade your enchantments since there are so many variations a person could try.

dangitrex · June 2016

Everyone wants nurfs because of pvp and scoreboards here's an idea stop nurfing remove pvp and scoreboards and begin buffing up the weaker classes less risk of losing new players who just got there characters who can manage a dungeon barely not a problem for me I'd just like to see more players staying instead of quiting thanks to nurfs. If you buff weaker classes people make new characters spend without feeling like your ripping them off

Taketh...but giveth too please...

Comments