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PALADIN Protection & Devotion BUFF required after DEBUFF
strathkin
Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User
Okay. So the vast majority of posts I make on STO & Neverwinter FORUMS are positive feedback even if they identify a few negative aspects in current play style. One thing I'd like DEVS to consider in future release after the widely viewed negative comments many had who play Paladin's about the Divine Judgement DEBUFF is this.
I'll admit while I didn't like the DEBUFF and I'm sure almost no one does, it was probably still quite necessary to address some concerns in PvP matches. Still Rogue's are largely ignored despite their ability to inflict a lot of damage while remaining completely Cloaked while they throw large volume's of damage into your back. Still rather than always DEBUFF player's it should instead be considered for new classes to offset other strengths by offering more unique team composition.
I'd like to see a MONK (Psionic) class I posted about in another forum based on the Kalashtar (Mostly Human Monk but identified as a Race/species not class in D&D) but it's perfect for Class based on their two Paragon's and it closely aligns with Monk Powers with Psionic abilities. Path of Light a more distance based class that should help others identify hidden target's more effectively as well as inflict damage from afar; the Path of Shadows a more martial arts form like Ninja who uses Psionic Power to hit hidden enemy in a more MELEE format that others can't see (but when hit) enable others to strike them (few seconds) before they become cloaked again.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1212391/new-player-class-monk-for-consideration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalashtar
What I really want to talk about however is after the DEBUFF to Divine Judgement, to improve Paladin's usefulness in team play to round out the class. That is increase Protection Paladin Healing buff by 5-10% above base for Devine Justice DEBUFF, but more effectively increase Devotion Healadin by 10-20% with SHIFT. This still gives Cleric's a far superior ability to instantly heal damage but makes Paladin's a more well rounded player. Given the strong decrease probably close to >50% damage to a single enemy in most cases, a little stronger ability to not only heal themselves but heal others on their team will make them more valuable (aside) from any tanking or defensive skills they they specialize in based upon their PARAGON they have choosen.
When character classes are DEBUFFED a weaker ability that better rounds them as leaders should be considered.
I'll admit while I didn't like the DEBUFF and I'm sure almost no one does, it was probably still quite necessary to address some concerns in PvP matches. Still Rogue's are largely ignored despite their ability to inflict a lot of damage while remaining completely Cloaked while they throw large volume's of damage into your back. Still rather than always DEBUFF player's it should instead be considered for new classes to offset other strengths by offering more unique team composition.
I'd like to see a MONK (Psionic) class I posted about in another forum based on the Kalashtar (Mostly Human Monk but identified as a Race/species not class in D&D) but it's perfect for Class based on their two Paragon's and it closely aligns with Monk Powers with Psionic abilities. Path of Light a more distance based class that should help others identify hidden target's more effectively as well as inflict damage from afar; the Path of Shadows a more martial arts form like Ninja who uses Psionic Power to hit hidden enemy in a more MELEE format that others can't see (but when hit) enable others to strike them (few seconds) before they become cloaked again.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1212391/new-player-class-monk-for-consideration
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalashtar
What I really want to talk about however is after the DEBUFF to Divine Judgement, to improve Paladin's usefulness in team play to round out the class. That is increase Protection Paladin Healing buff by 5-10% above base for Devine Justice DEBUFF, but more effectively increase Devotion Healadin by 10-20% with SHIFT. This still gives Cleric's a far superior ability to instantly heal damage but makes Paladin's a more well rounded player. Given the strong decrease probably close to >50% damage to a single enemy in most cases, a little stronger ability to not only heal themselves but heal others on their team will make them more valuable (aside) from any tanking or defensive skills they they specialize in based upon their PARAGON they have choosen.
When character classes are DEBUFFED a weaker ability that better rounds them as leaders should be considered.
Post edited by strathkin on
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First of all, Divine Judgment was nerfed quite a while ago. Mostly because it was basically a one shot "I win" button for PvP. as it stands right now, Divine Judgment certainly isn't needed to support either the Protection or the Devotion Paladin's role in a party (which is tanking or healing, neither of which rely much on your ability to deal damage). Paladin Tanks can be one of the most overpowered members of a party right now, literally making an entire party in a dungeon or PvP match invulnerable for most or all of the dungeon or match. Similarly Devotion Paladins can put out staggering amounts of healing, easily surpassing any cleric (though the cleric is a lot better at buffing/debuffing and damage mitigation). Paladins excel at their current role, they certainly don't need to be buffed to support it.
I will sympathize a bit when it comes to playing a Paladin solo as I know they really don't do a lot of damage ... but any adjustments here need to be done carefully or they will be even more unbalanced in PvP.
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As you have indicated Devine Justice was a ONE shot in PvP for players with a Gear Score of 2800-4022 perhaps. The whole nature of the way PvP is largely broken because you often have High Gear Score players on teams often playing against PUG's. PvE party's should be ignored when queuing for PvP, and PvP Team Score's should be announced at start of match, in addition 3 conditional opportunities at various stages should be given to allow a team behind to catch up the leading team doesn't get.
Still most don't realize Paladin's actually can gain go beyong 300% of your base HP in larger Dungeon's or Skirmishes. Why I suggested it be limited & description updated to include the max multiplier is 233-266% of base HP which is actually a DEBUFF and in some cases a sizeable one.
I'm also specifically looking them to FIX the way the GRAPH display's, because Yellow shows Temp HP which is 90% Yellow that means if my current HP are 72,666 then that would represent my HP being 726,660--this is no where close to reality. I give a specific example below how this should actually be graphed.
By no means is a BUFF of 5-10% healing bonus for Protection Paladin's unreasonable nor is it for Devotion if Templar's Wrath gives their team Temp HP. It is in fact very reasonable. When you consider the DEBUFF to Devine Justice & DEBUFF to Tanking (Temp HP) a slight increase to Burning Light or another encounter power is very fitting.
Having said that the description of Templar's Wrath for Protection Paladin is, "Gives HP equivalent to 300% of the damage delt" but the actual fact is it gives 300% of their current Hitpoints or more especially in a large Dungeon or Skirmish with no apparently maximum. So if anything I'm asking for a further DEBUFF of tanking provided by Templar's Wrath to give a (max) HP of 233-266% (or somewhere in between) starting at the higher end first or 266% but it should only be considered by a BUFF to another encounter power.
When character classes are DEBUFFED a weaker ability increased rounds them as leaders and appeases both those who find one power to over whelming but also better rounds out the class so it does NOT disapoint players of that class.
Shift mechanic is fine as it is, the only thing i can complain about is the time delay it has before activating
And this:
"and while Devotion Paladins or Healadin's like some call them don't do anywhere close to a Cleric"
Are you ****ing kidding me? In what dimension? Cause I play both and I can tell my devotion paladin outheals my Virtuous Cleric by a 10 to 1 ratio, while being a lot tougher as well! (being conservative)
P.S. If, by any chance, you're an X-BOX player, this is the wrong section of the forum.
Now I under stand how I killd a few in PVP lately...
I thought I was a god or something... lol
DJ was ok, bc you could not one shot ppl with superior gear? Solid argument. A 1k TR cant oneshot a 4k GWF, why are GWFs complaining?
You either dont play on PC or you dont know anything about PvE or PvP matches between ppl with somehow decent gear.
Also let me say that when CRYPTIC debuff's any character class they should always consider BUFFING a far under utilized power to better round out the class.
The difference I'm talking about here and why I'm saying the description is POOR or WRONG is because the GRAPH is completely out of alignment with what actually occurs and LEADS to the wrong representation of data. When I hit 3 dummies in the Trade of Blades:
Templar's Wrath does is 9217, 5099, 5714 = 20,030 but temp HP is 63,631 where as 300% of 20,030 is 60,090 but the bar when you hold mouse over it below TAB, Q, E, R says Temp HP 63,631 which is not 300% but it is close. The larger problem is the Health BAR since temporary health is drawn as 90% of overall health which is normally 72,666 it gives the FALSE impression of my health being 726,660 based on the way the graph is drawn.
If my regular health is 72,666 and you add 63,631 to it. Then the total HP is 137,297 of which Yellow represents 47% & Red represents 53% which is almost 200% of the HP (close to the 233% I suggested but in dungeon's or skirmishes with 3-5 players I've seen Paladin's TEMP HP go far higher than this and much higher in fact so what I'm actually suggesting is a DEBUFF with a slight increase to healing 20% for Protection & possibly Devotion IF Templar's Wrath works in a similar fashion for them assigning TEMP HP to Party or Allies. .
In Ashmaiden's Lair my Temp HP was 128,000 on TOP of my 72666 for a grand total of 275% my base HP. Now KEEP in mind PEOPLE I've even seen it go FAR higher in some dungeon's where your fighting a lot of mobs with 3 or 5 people in a skirmish because templar's wrath hit's practically everything.
All I'm saying is the DESCRIPTION needs to be updated but it should NOT exceeed 233-266% of a Paladin's Base HP which again is an actual DEBUFF on top of the DEBUFF to Devine Justice. So the two in combination should have Protection Paladin possibly Devotion given a slight healing boost OR buff to another Encounter power like Burning Light by 20-30% as an example. It's the same thing that should be strongly considered for any CLASS when they DEBUFF (NERF) one power than may be too OP they offset a far weaker or under utilized one to better round out the class.
I haven't logged this officially with CRYPTIC yet because I thought I'd have some FUN explaining the justification for why I'm suggesting what I'm suggesting.
Also when my CW Disintegrate says 27-28K in Mastery Slot last I checked it did far less than that, and in a regular slot I was getting damage of 11K not 21-23K which should be normal damage ranges not criticals--those should be bonus above norm.
Once I've taking into account others FEEDBACK then I'll submit the form to ARC. Most of the time I submit things directly and very accurately.
They need attention and changes
Yet I'd also like them to consider strengthing some other ability after one large DEBUFF to Devine Justice. I'd like to see a BUFF to Burning Light do slightly more damage (it doesn't hardly any) but dazes people and I'd like it to also reveal hidden Rogue/Theif's like Latern of Revalation.
I'd also like Monk Psionic class to address this. A Psionic Monk should also not need to see enemy to hit them, but upon being struck daze them so they can be hit by others too.
But there is a valid suggestioning for changing the GRAPH, I wanted to see if others had any other idea's first. What might be desirable for all players is a split bar between HP (above) and Temp HP (below) with HP # being shown on the right side so you can quickly see you available HP to strategize?
Devotion paladins don't use templar's wrath.
I frequently see individual heals for over 500k on devotion from my skills and if I crit, I have seen 1 or 2 crits on beqcon of hope for over 600M, I don't need more healing.
You have to look at changes as a whole, you cannot just propose chnges due to pvp balance without stopping to consider pve balance.
Things like binding oath are a bigger issue then templar's wrath, you can cast binding oath before it comes off of cooldown, which essentially means you invulnerable.
Anyway as thefabricant says, paladins have lots of issues and this is not the biggest one
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