My CW dos only 50% of the damage...

cortrillion#9371
cortrillion#9371 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
Well... maybe it is tool tips that are broken or not up to date. But most of my direct damage type attacks hit for less then 50% of the damage it says on the tool tip.

There are 2 things in play here...

1. Chilling presence: With feats, slotting this makes the tool tips of most direct damage type spells go up by around 40%. This dos not affect spells like Frozen terrain or CoI.
2. When not slotting chilling presence. Direct damage spells still hit for a lot less then the tool tip suggests.


Example; My disintegrate (rank 1 on a level 60 CW). Tool tip damage: 27.787 to 33.600. Hits for 5.700 to 6.900. Removing Chilling Presence, disintegrate tool tip damage; 16.153 to 19.535. Hits for 5.600 to 6.700.

Example2: My Chill Strike (rank 1 on a level 60 CW), Tool tip with Chilling Presence: 8.820 to 10.567, real damage 3842 - 5280. Tool tip with out Chilling presence: 5.144 to 6.144, real damage 3.603 to 5.260.

All tests are on targets of level 42. armor penetration is 20.9%. The same situation can be seen with Chilling cloud, Ray of Frost and the daily Ice Knife. Numbers are an average of 20 spell casts.

Anyway... The biggest problem is the one on disintegration, where it hits for around 20% to 25% of the tool tip damage. So this may be why a ilevel 2k GWF dose about 2 times the damage of a ilevel 3k CW.

Comments

  • aulduron
    aulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    How much Armor Penetration/Resistance Ignored do you have?
  • urabask
    urabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    aulduron said:

    How much Armor Penetration/Resistance Ignored do you have?

    I'm using ironzerg's build on a CW with 60.2% RI and I still get disintegrates that do like 15k damage if it doesn't crit : |

    The tooltip lists 64k-78k :|
    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • eumeo
    eumeo Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    I have exactly the same issue with my CW
  • rozariaa
    rozariaa Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3 Arc User
    i have same problem with my CW ... i made new CW to see what makes dmg reduce .. it was all normal untill i reached level 15 .. then it started doing only 50% of tool tip ... i practiced hitting target dummies
  • godsblace
    godsblace Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    This may be actually a real "ISSUE"?

    At the very least clarification is needed...it be nice to know, because:

    I noticed the same thing, a long while back, and just chalked it up to a tool tip error..., AP or some other equation for damage I didn't know.

    Do dummies have armor resistance an if so what is it?
    What is the proper math formula for damage?
    Why is it doing half the damage quoted, simple explanation please.

  • cortrillion#9371
    cortrillion#9371 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    Well... There is a bug for sure, the thing is that it may be a tool tip bug and not a damage bug.
  • romotheone
    romotheone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 729 Arc User
    Do not trust the tooltip, there are no other bugs.
  • cortrillion#9371
    cortrillion#9371 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    Hmmm... There are a lot of stacking problems in the game. FX the CW dos around 50% of the tool tip damage, and the GWF dos around 30x to 50x the tool tip damage. It is not uncommon that a GWF hits for 50.000 to 100.000 with an atwill atk that dos around the same damage that an atwill dos for a CW - around 4k.
  • romotheone
    romotheone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 729 Arc User

    Hmmm... There are a lot of stacking problems in the game. FX the CW dos around 50% of the tool tip damage, and the GWF dos around 30x to 50x the tool tip damage. It is not uncommon that a GWF hits for 50.000 to 100.000 with an atwill atk that dos around the same damage that an atwill dos for a CW - around 4k.

    Yes, that's normal. Like I said. Do not trust the tooltip.
  • cortrillion#9371
    cortrillion#9371 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    I am almost sure that the problem is not the tool tip but something else. As the GWF dos 4x the damage of the other strikers I think it is safe to say that there is a problem beyond the tool tip.
  • rghbrghbj
    rghbrghbj Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 23 Arc User
    A few weeks ago, just after the last double refinement event, it started feeling like I was doing less damage than before. I upgraded several enchantments during the event but just didn't seem to help at all. Thought it was just my imagination but .....
  • raydroot
    raydroot Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 110 Arc User
    I have a 3kil SS that hits for 340k ice knife on occasion and averages 60k to 250k for ice knife on encounters. But I have noticed a drop in dps from the at wills and encounter powers. Just my 2cents.
  • romotheone
    romotheone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 729 Arc User
    The damage did not drop. Nothing happened people, wtf?!
  • gankdalf#8991
    gankdalf#8991 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 911 Arc User
    Hm I see the same thing here.

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  • niadan
    niadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    My DPS keeps getting better. No drops here. Right spec, right gear, right spell interactions, any CW with experience can keep up or best most other classes. If you care about those sort of things.
  • xulinn
    xulinn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 20 Arc User
    Same thing with my main CW (3.3k IL). Tested it on several different settings. With augmentpet, with Warlock and bonding runestones, without any companion. In battle and on the dummies. Most time the damage does not hit the tooltip even when it crits.
    I asked a guild mate to do the same and his CW s damage matched the tooltips. So I tested it on my second CW (2k IL) and it worked properly. Damage showed numbers that matched the tooltip.

    I watched the phenomenon of my low damage issue on my main CW at least since mod5. I tried everything: respecc, different weapons, enchantments, companions. Tried master of flame, stormspell mage, Thauma and Renegade. Even bought a race change to reroll stats.
    Wrote a ticket. The answer was that there is certainly some bug with my CW, but i should send an ingame ticket and forget about it.
    Nothing helped. Still being bashed all the time for my low damage. I don't even want to repeat what people said. Not to mention the many times they just kicked me for being alow performer.

    And no, it is not my personal lack of skill, 'cos as I mentioned above my second CW does well. It is only ealing me that i spend so much time, effort and even money to improve my main CW.

    It would really make me happy if someone could help.
  • niadan
    niadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Post your build and stats.but as you said, this may be some strange bug with your specific CW. In that case only support can help.
  • katamaster81899
    katamaster81899 Member Posts: 1,157 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    I've actually noticed the same issue with disintegrate, but haven't payed close enough attention to other skills - i'ma check and see if I have this too.

    Ok, so it looks like tooltips are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. they assume all feats are up at max stacks at all times when being calculated. Includes chilling presence and stuff. They also scale with your current power. They're all kinds of wonky. To begin testing this, I'd need the formulas to calculate the damage of each encounter. @strumslinger @terramak @panderus @asterdahl Is there any way I could get my hands on these formulas? Or even the base damage of each attack, and then I can figure out how to calculate the rest through regression functions and some data samplings?

    For reference, I am following the build in my signature below - Thaumaturge SS with some feats in Oppressor.

    Also, it appears there is some sort of damage reduction for many encounters between the powers sheet and being placed in the encounters bar - see the two examples below.

    I also noticed that every time I log in, my encounters are listed as doing different amounts of damage! I'm absolutely astounded by how much they vary, I'm not sure where to even start trying to figure that out. Simply put, something is REALLY wrong.

    PuWOxXz.png
    e2ZvOy4.png

    On the last livestream, they were discussing eventually doing some rebalancing. Before that, bugs and things like this probably need to be resolved so we perform as intended lol.​​
    Post edited by katamaster81899 on
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  • thefabricant
    thefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    I've actually noticed the same issue with disintegrate, but haven't payed close enough attention to other skills - i'ma check and see if I have this too.



    Ok, so it looks like tooltips are HAMSTER. they assume all feats are up at max stacks at all times when being calculated. Includes chilling presence and stuff. They also scale with your current power. They're all kinds of wonky. To begin testing this, I'd need the formulas to calculate the damage of each encounter. @strumslinger @terramak @panderus @asterdahl Is there any way I could get my hands on these formulas? Or even the base damage of each attack, and then I can figure out how to calculate the rest through regression functions and some data samplings?



    For reference, I am following the build in my signature below - Thaumaturge SS with some feats in Oppressor.



    Also, it appears there is some sort of damage reduction for many encounters between the powers sheet and being placed in the encounters bar - see the two examples below.



    I also noticed that every time I log in, my encounters are listed as doing different amounts of damage! I'm absolutely astounded by how much they vary, I'm not sure where to even start trying to figure that out. Simply put, something is REALLY wrong.



    PuWOxXz.png

    e2ZvOy4.png



    On the last livestream, they were discussing eventually doing some rebalancing. Before that, bugs and things like this probably need to be resolved so we perform as intended lol.​​

    @katamaster81899 all tooltips are wrong in this game, I have given up on "reading what things do" and just work it out for myself. It has always been this way, so I don't think its getting fixed any time soon.
  • niadan
    niadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    This is really weird what is happening to you, as my character power sheet numbers and slotted powers are the same numbers.
  • martelis1981
    martelis1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 121 Arc User
    The same happens to my CW, about a week or 2 after the beggining of Underdark, my dps fell to about 50%. With the same party that we frecuently run dungeons usually my cw did before above 100M in the paingiver. Now with the same gear, same thaum build the cw does barely 65M. I see a LOT 0 damage even in critic!!. Maybe some feats or encounters are bugged ie. Conduit of Ice sometimes does 0 damage. I haven't enough time to test if i discover something I will post in the thread of bugs
  • romotheone
    romotheone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 729 Arc User
    Conduit had 0 damage "physical" ticks since the beginning of mod 5. This is nothing new.
  • xulinn
    xulinn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 20 Arc User
    I noticed that too

    Conduit had 0 damage "physical" ticks since the beginning of mod 5. This is nothing new.

  • xulinn
    xulinn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 20 Arc User
    I suppose that most tooltips of powers with rank 4 show wrong numbers.

    With my specific mage i had issues with the cat companion as well. When i used the cat companion my damage went lesser than without companion. I dismissed it and took an ioun stone, which solved that problem. Using a Warlock companion with a rank 9 and a rank 10 bonding rune stone does about the same amount of damage.

    After we did some testing with different toons in the guild we found that lot of the tooltips show wrong numbers, but there were also CWs where the damage matched the numbers.

    I saw several times when I tested it that only a full rotation with all resulting buffs plus crit did about the damage shown in the tooltip. Most time it was lesser.
  • ryfghbv
    ryfghbv Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    To you all, it's maybe because some powers show the best and the worst cases of a power, reading the tooltip of "Killing Flames" from SW you can see that says 3000 - 28000 fire damage, because this power deals more damage the less HP have the enemy, so Disintegrate can be the same, the power probably deals the first damage tooltip says "15000 - 50000" so 15000 is it's base damage.

    Hmmm... There are a lot of stacking problems in the game. FX the CW dos around 50% of the tool tip damage, and the GWF dos around 30x to 50x the tool tip damage. It is not uncommon that a GWF hits for 50.000 to 100.000 with an atwill atk that dos around the same damage that an atwill dos for a CW - around 4k.

    The GWF powers are not lying, but GWF have a lot of stacking damage, ex: hidden daggers will buff your damage for 40%, and if you have 100% crit severity, you basicly are doubling that bonus damage, and also this applies to ELOL set, which deal another hit on crits, so you are dealing double damage already with your at wills.
    What gives GWF that high damage is stacking over all damage instead of power-based damage.
    Also damage resistence reduction works even if your enemy have 0% damage resistence, if that is the case, then it debuff in negative numbers, that means it takes more damage from all sources and it's stackeable, thats why you can deal a lot of damage to dragons when theres a lot of damage resistence debuffs on him.
  • thefabricant
    thefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    ryfghbv said:

    To you all, it's maybe because some powers show the best and the worst cases of a power, reading the tooltip of "Killing Flames" from SW you can see that says 3000 - 28000 fire damage, because this power deals more damage the less HP have the enemy, so Disintegrate can be the same, the power probably deals the first damage tooltip says "15000 - 50000" so 15000 is it's base damage.

    Hmmm... There are a lot of stacking problems in the game. FX the CW dos around 50% of the tool tip damage, and the GWF dos around 30x to 50x the tool tip damage. It is not uncommon that a GWF hits for 50.000 to 100.000 with an atwill atk that dos around the same damage that an atwill dos for a CW - around 4k.

    The GWF powers are not lying, but GWF have a lot of stacking damage, ex: hidden daggers will buff your damage for 40%, and if you have 100% crit severity, you basicly are doubling that bonus damage, and also this applies to ELOL set, which deal another hit on crits, so you are dealing double damage already with your at wills.
    What gives GWF that high damage is stacking over all damage instead of power-based damage.
    Also damage resistence reduction works even if your enemy have 0% damage resistence, if that is the case, then it debuff in negative numbers, that means it takes more damage from all sources and it's stackeable, thats why you can deal a lot of damage to dragons when theres a lot of damage resistence debuffs on him.
    Except for the fact that the damage numbers fall nowhere near that range.
  • mayday#2798
    mayday#2798 Member Posts: 100 Arc User


    I have 6.8% resistance ignored.