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Uncle Trapspringer, the PVP Scoundrel
flehstiffer
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
Hello everyone, the point of this thread is two-fold:
to share my build with people who have asked to see it,
and to get feedback/criticism about my build, hopefully leading to improvements.
so, without further adieu:
As you can see, my build is not yet near completion, or being “BIS.” What you can’t see are the enchantments. In all offense slots I have Radiant rank 10’s (except one, a Dark rank 9 to be switched out at a later date), and in all defense slots, I have Silvery rank 10’s. Utilities are a mix of dark rank 8’s and 9’s, which I am always working toward upgrading. My weapon enchant is a trans lifedrinker, and my armor is a greater elven battle, which I am working on bringing up to trans.
Also very important to the build are the ability scores: dex/cha maxed, followed by strength.
My current stats are:
power: 12k
crit: 4.1k
armor pen: 5.9k (2.9k without SH boon)
recovery: 2.1k
combat adv: 1.2k
defense: 6.9k (2.9k without SH boon)
deflect: 5.4k
life steal: 1.8k
tenacity: 1.7k
I have some stamina gain, control bonus/resist, and movement, but they are not as important to the build and are excluded.
if masterwork professions ever become reasonable/viable, the rosegold rings are a good option as well, as is umbral equipments (especially since SH siege never pops)
let's start at the top and explain my choices across the board.
Action Advantage: 0/5 - AP gain when dealing CA damage. nice, and will almost always be active with my build, but dailies are a convenience with this build, not a necessity.
Weapon master 3/3 - More crit without having to waste stats on it. this is good.
Toughness 3/3 - More HP = less death.
Swift footwork 1/5 - Stamina regen is good, and we need one more point to move on.
Battlewise 0/3 - What is threat?
Cunning Ambusher 3/3 - Most damage done by this build is in the few seconds after stealth ends anyway. This boosts that.
Endless Assault 0/3 - Not bad, but not for this build. Most damage is from at-wills.
Twilight Adept 4/5 - Gain stealth when rolling. Since scoundrel is easily the least stealth of all builds, this will help you mitigate that.
Lucky Skirmisher 3/3 - Deflect keeps this build alive.
Scoundrel Training 0/3 - Poor name, as people will usually target rogues they can see. i.e. scoundrels. Will never get used.
Disciple of Strength 3/3 - Flat damage bonus. can't beat that.
Improved Cunning Sneak 0/3 - Stealth is almost always used to supplement damage, and thus having extra stealth bar is useless.
Into the Scoundrel tree now:
Roll With The Punches 5/5 - You can never have enough deflect.
Bloody Brawler 5/5 - You can never have enough life steal.
Survivor 5/5 - When people really want to kill you... make it so they can't.
Seething Knifes 0/5 - I never use Hateful Knives or Razor Action in pvp.
Back Alley Tactics 0/5 - AP gain again. Not bad, but not good enough.
Master Infighter 5/5 - Flat DR? Yes please!
Savage Blows 5/5 - You can never have enough life steal. (Stop me if this starts getting old). The main damage dealer is Duelists Flurry, which means that this will almost always be at 5 stacks.
Concussive Strikes 5/5 - One of the feats that makes Scoundrel a Scoundrel. Combine with Low Blows for a fantastic damage boost.
Low Blows 5/5 - More damage is a good thing. Combine with Concussive Strikes for a fantastic damage boost.
Mocking Gesture 5/5 - You can never have enough deflect. This build spends its time hopping in and out of stealth, even though stealth time is low, so this will be up almost all the time.
Skullcracker 1/1 - Every 15 seconds, daze someone for 2-3 seconds at a 50% damage boost. This can work wonders with a well timed duelist flurry. The movement speed bonus is fantastic too.
I will make a note here, since readers will probably be wondering why my life steal stat is so low even though I am putting so much emphasis on it. The number one reason is that deflect is a higher priority. The second reason is that most of my life steal currently comes from feats, lifedrinker, and my boons. So, even though I have less that 2k stat (i.e. somewhere around 5%), my actual life steal chance in practice is around 21-22%.
Dark Fey Warder vs Dark Fey Hunter - Defense vs power. Since our best defense is deflect, we take power to kill faster, and indirectly boost life steal.
Fey Elusiveness vs Fey Precision - Deflect vs crit. You can never have enough deflect.
Feywilds Fortitude vs Elven Haste - HP vs AP gain. Again, AP gain is nice, but not necessary, while more HP = less death. For you at least.
Elven Tranquility vs Elven Ferocity - heal vs damage. This is strictly personal preference, but if someone comes and manages to hit me with a huge bull charge or SE out of nowhere, through my deflection, I want to instantly have some of that HP back.
Elven Resolve vs Fey Thistle vs Elvish Fury vs Redcap Brew - Stamina gain is nice, but I have that more or less covered with elven battle. Fury will never have enough stacks to be useful. Relying so much on lifesteal means having a potion boost is irrelevant. If you need it, you are already dead. Finally, we have soo much deflect, why wouldn't we use thistle? Hurt people just for attacking us? Take this! Now!
Reliquary Keeper's Strength vs Conjurer's Gambit - Power vs crit. I just prefer power, even considering the fact that I have lostmauth.
Evoker's Thirst vs Illusory Regeneration - Life steal vs regen. regen is irrelevant for the most part. Also, you can never have enough life steal.
Illusion Shimmer vs Forbidden Piercing - Deflect vs armor pen. More deflect.
Enraged Regrowth vs Shadowtouch - heal over time vs damage over time. This is more or less the same argument as elven tranquility. Put simply, more healing = better.
Augmented Thayan Bastion vs Rampaging Madness vs Endless Consumption vs Burning Guidance - You can never have enough life steal. Having such a good chance to triple the gain from life steal is unparalleled. Don't even consider anything else.
Weathering the Storm vs Encroaching Tactics - AoE resist vs Combat Advantage. This build is actually pretty reliant on combat advantage, so more is always better.
Appreciation of Warmth vs Refreshing Chill - Incoming Healing bonus vs Stamina gain. More stamina is always appreciated, but honestly either one here goes. If I were to switch, i would make up for it with jewelcrafting reinforcement kits, so no loss either way.
Rapid Thaw vs Sleet Skills - Recovery vs crit severity. This build is quite low on recovery as it is, so this is a welcome boost.
Cold Shoulder vs Cool Resolve - Reduced incoming damage vs power. I would take the power, except that I have such a high stamina gain, that it will not see very much use.
Avalanche vs Rousing Warmth vs Winter's bounty vs Shared Survival - You can take the hits, might as well dish some of it back out. It helps that the other three choices are nearly useless for this build. Rousing Warmth might be nice with all the heals from lifesteal, but I'd have to see exactly how it works.
Dragonheart vs Dragon's Claws - HP vs Power. Personal preference. I consider my power too low, so I want more, whereas my HP isn't too abysmal.
Dragon's Shadow vs Dragon's Gaze - Deflect vs Crit. I don't think this requires explanation at this point. Deflect.
Dragonscale Defense vs Draconic Armorbreaker - Defense vs Armor pen. Go for more damage. Deflect does more for survivability anyway.
Dragon's Greed vs Dragon's Blood - Life steal vs Regen. Again, no explanation necessary. Lifesteal.
Dragon's Thirst 1/3 vs Dragon's Revival 1/3 vs Dragon's Fury vs Dragon's Grip - life steal vs incoming healing vs crit severity vs control bonus. Well, life steal is obvious, and incoming healing will simply increase the amount that life steal heals for, so those go hand in hand. I don't have the final boon yet, but I'm currently planning on taking thirst 2/3.
My guild currently only has a stable at rank 5, giving me 4k defense, 3k armor pen, and 3% mount movement speed. Our next project is getting a temple to rank 5, at which point I will switch from 4k defense to 4k life steal.
Primordial Vitality vs Primordial Might - Defense vs power. More damage.
Primordial Regenesis vs Primordial Focus - Life steal vs crit. More life steal.
Drow Meditation vs Drow Ambush Tactics - Regen vs combat advantage damage. This build is very heavy on combat advantage damage. I honestly don't care if the bonus from this is additive or multiplicative, since the amount of increase from this is generous either way.
Dwarven Footing vs Dwarven Stamina - control resist vs stamina gain. The book for this is an insufferable grind, or a wallet killer last i checked, so I don't have this yet. I would get the stamina, since I already have elven battle, and deflect most control anyway.
The 4 irrelevant boons - I honestly doubt I'll ever take any of these unless the books drops for me, and is so cheap, it's not worth the effort of selling.
to share my build with people who have asked to see it,
and to get feedback/criticism about my build, hopefully leading to improvements.
so, without further adieu:
Uncle Trapspringer, the PVP Scoundrel
My current setup - subject to constant improvement
As you can see, my build is not yet near completion, or being “BIS.” What you can’t see are the enchantments. In all offense slots I have Radiant rank 10’s (except one, a Dark rank 9 to be switched out at a later date), and in all defense slots, I have Silvery rank 10’s. Utilities are a mix of dark rank 8’s and 9’s, which I am always working toward upgrading. My weapon enchant is a trans lifedrinker, and my armor is a greater elven battle, which I am working on bringing up to trans.
Also very important to the build are the ability scores: dex/cha maxed, followed by strength.
My current stats are:
power: 12k
crit: 4.1k
armor pen: 5.9k (2.9k without SH boon)
recovery: 2.1k
combat adv: 1.2k
defense: 6.9k (2.9k without SH boon)
deflect: 5.4k
life steal: 1.8k
tenacity: 1.7k
I have some stamina gain, control bonus/resist, and movement, but they are not as important to the build and are excluded.
the goal
if masterwork professions ever become reasonable/viable, the rosegold rings are a good option as well, as is umbral equipments (especially since SH siege never pops)
The feats
let's start at the top and explain my choices across the board.
Action Advantage: 0/5 - AP gain when dealing CA damage. nice, and will almost always be active with my build, but dailies are a convenience with this build, not a necessity.
Weapon master 3/3 - More crit without having to waste stats on it. this is good.
Toughness 3/3 - More HP = less death.
Swift footwork 1/5 - Stamina regen is good, and we need one more point to move on.
Battlewise 0/3 - What is threat?
Cunning Ambusher 3/3 - Most damage done by this build is in the few seconds after stealth ends anyway. This boosts that.
Endless Assault 0/3 - Not bad, but not for this build. Most damage is from at-wills.
Twilight Adept 4/5 - Gain stealth when rolling. Since scoundrel is easily the least stealth of all builds, this will help you mitigate that.
Lucky Skirmisher 3/3 - Deflect keeps this build alive.
Scoundrel Training 0/3 - Poor name, as people will usually target rogues they can see. i.e. scoundrels. Will never get used.
Disciple of Strength 3/3 - Flat damage bonus. can't beat that.
Improved Cunning Sneak 0/3 - Stealth is almost always used to supplement damage, and thus having extra stealth bar is useless.
Into the Scoundrel tree now:
Roll With The Punches 5/5 - You can never have enough deflect.
Bloody Brawler 5/5 - You can never have enough life steal.
Survivor 5/5 - When people really want to kill you... make it so they can't.
Seething Knifes 0/5 - I never use Hateful Knives or Razor Action in pvp.
Back Alley Tactics 0/5 - AP gain again. Not bad, but not good enough.
Master Infighter 5/5 - Flat DR? Yes please!
Savage Blows 5/5 - You can never have enough life steal. (Stop me if this starts getting old). The main damage dealer is Duelists Flurry, which means that this will almost always be at 5 stacks.
Concussive Strikes 5/5 - One of the feats that makes Scoundrel a Scoundrel. Combine with Low Blows for a fantastic damage boost.
Low Blows 5/5 - More damage is a good thing. Combine with Concussive Strikes for a fantastic damage boost.
Mocking Gesture 5/5 - You can never have enough deflect. This build spends its time hopping in and out of stealth, even though stealth time is low, so this will be up almost all the time.
Skullcracker 1/1 - Every 15 seconds, daze someone for 2-3 seconds at a 50% damage boost. This can work wonders with a well timed duelist flurry. The movement speed bonus is fantastic too.
I will make a note here, since readers will probably be wondering why my life steal stat is so low even though I am putting so much emphasis on it. The number one reason is that deflect is a higher priority. The second reason is that most of my life steal currently comes from feats, lifedrinker, and my boons. So, even though I have less that 2k stat (i.e. somewhere around 5%), my actual life steal chance in practice is around 21-22%.
Boons
In a similar style, I will explain each boon choice individually.Dark Fey Warder vs Dark Fey Hunter - Defense vs power. Since our best defense is deflect, we take power to kill faster, and indirectly boost life steal.
Fey Elusiveness vs Fey Precision - Deflect vs crit. You can never have enough deflect.
Feywilds Fortitude vs Elven Haste - HP vs AP gain. Again, AP gain is nice, but not necessary, while more HP = less death. For you at least.
Elven Tranquility vs Elven Ferocity - heal vs damage. This is strictly personal preference, but if someone comes and manages to hit me with a huge bull charge or SE out of nowhere, through my deflection, I want to instantly have some of that HP back.
Elven Resolve vs Fey Thistle vs Elvish Fury vs Redcap Brew - Stamina gain is nice, but I have that more or less covered with elven battle. Fury will never have enough stacks to be useful. Relying so much on lifesteal means having a potion boost is irrelevant. If you need it, you are already dead. Finally, we have soo much deflect, why wouldn't we use thistle? Hurt people just for attacking us? Take this! Now!
Reliquary Keeper's Strength vs Conjurer's Gambit - Power vs crit. I just prefer power, even considering the fact that I have lostmauth.
Evoker's Thirst vs Illusory Regeneration - Life steal vs regen. regen is irrelevant for the most part. Also, you can never have enough life steal.
Illusion Shimmer vs Forbidden Piercing - Deflect vs armor pen. More deflect.
Enraged Regrowth vs Shadowtouch - heal over time vs damage over time. This is more or less the same argument as elven tranquility. Put simply, more healing = better.
Augmented Thayan Bastion vs Rampaging Madness vs Endless Consumption vs Burning Guidance - You can never have enough life steal. Having such a good chance to triple the gain from life steal is unparalleled. Don't even consider anything else.
Weathering the Storm vs Encroaching Tactics - AoE resist vs Combat Advantage. This build is actually pretty reliant on combat advantage, so more is always better.
Appreciation of Warmth vs Refreshing Chill - Incoming Healing bonus vs Stamina gain. More stamina is always appreciated, but honestly either one here goes. If I were to switch, i would make up for it with jewelcrafting reinforcement kits, so no loss either way.
Rapid Thaw vs Sleet Skills - Recovery vs crit severity. This build is quite low on recovery as it is, so this is a welcome boost.
Cold Shoulder vs Cool Resolve - Reduced incoming damage vs power. I would take the power, except that I have such a high stamina gain, that it will not see very much use.
Avalanche vs Rousing Warmth vs Winter's bounty vs Shared Survival - You can take the hits, might as well dish some of it back out. It helps that the other three choices are nearly useless for this build. Rousing Warmth might be nice with all the heals from lifesteal, but I'd have to see exactly how it works.
Dragonheart vs Dragon's Claws - HP vs Power. Personal preference. I consider my power too low, so I want more, whereas my HP isn't too abysmal.
Dragon's Shadow vs Dragon's Gaze - Deflect vs Crit. I don't think this requires explanation at this point. Deflect.
Dragonscale Defense vs Draconic Armorbreaker - Defense vs Armor pen. Go for more damage. Deflect does more for survivability anyway.
Dragon's Greed vs Dragon's Blood - Life steal vs Regen. Again, no explanation necessary. Lifesteal.
Dragon's Thirst 1/3 vs Dragon's Revival 1/3 vs Dragon's Fury vs Dragon's Grip - life steal vs incoming healing vs crit severity vs control bonus. Well, life steal is obvious, and incoming healing will simply increase the amount that life steal heals for, so those go hand in hand. I don't have the final boon yet, but I'm currently planning on taking thirst 2/3.
My guild currently only has a stable at rank 5, giving me 4k defense, 3k armor pen, and 3% mount movement speed. Our next project is getting a temple to rank 5, at which point I will switch from 4k defense to 4k life steal.
Primordial Vitality vs Primordial Might - Defense vs power. More damage.
Primordial Regenesis vs Primordial Focus - Life steal vs crit. More life steal.
Drow Meditation vs Drow Ambush Tactics - Regen vs combat advantage damage. This build is very heavy on combat advantage damage. I honestly don't care if the bonus from this is additive or multiplicative, since the amount of increase from this is generous either way.
Dwarven Footing vs Dwarven Stamina - control resist vs stamina gain. The book for this is an insufferable grind, or a wallet killer last i checked, so I don't have this yet. I would get the stamina, since I already have elven battle, and deflect most control anyway.
The 4 irrelevant boons - I honestly doubt I'll ever take any of these unless the books drops for me, and is so cheap, it's not worth the effort of selling.
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Comments
Powers
Although a keen eye might have spotted it in the feat tree, this is where my prestige path becomes very important. As I have said several times so far, I rely on Combat advantage for a huge portion of my damage. There are two ways to keep combat advantage up: Perma-stealth, and Advantageous Positioning. These days, I kind of consider perma-stealth to be bullchxt, and started this build as part of an exercise to show that there are other ways to play TR's, so I use Advantageous Positioning to maintain combat advantage.At-wills:
1. Duelists Flurry. This is the main damage dealer, and will never leave the bar.
2. Disheartening strike. This is a very long DoT effect that amounts to very good damage. This also the perma-stealth killer, and rarely leaves my bar. An additional benefit is the damage reduction vs you that the target suffers.
3. Cloud of Steel. Every once in a while you'll get someone who is able to stay away from you, so CoS lets you give them some hurt from a distance.
Encounters:
1. Vengeance's Pursuit. No one will ever get away from you again. This power is rather underrated. Not only can you mark people (and see stealthed TR's/ambush ring users), you can debuff their damage by something like 10%. I like using this to ignore CW's using repel.
2. Smoke Bomb. Almost a TR trademark here. This provides good damage, but more importantly can proc skullcracker and low blows for extra damage. Combine with Duelists flurry and even well geared players can feel the hurt.
3. Dazing Strike. I sometimes use this instead of smokebomb, but in general I don't feel that it's as useful. The daze doesn't last nearly long enough, and the damage is also too small for my liking. One benefit though, is that it's harder to dodge, and the target can't simply walk out of the effect.
4. Shadow Strike. A build with this little stealth needs some way to get it back, and while twilight adept helps, it won't do the trick in combat. This ability never leaves my bar under any circumstances.
Dailies:
1. Courage Breaker. This power has so much use that I always have it slotted. Slow the enemy so they almost can't move, even if they are control immune. Reduce their damage by ~half. Increase your power by 25%. If you can get this off with a smoke bomb from stealth (for the additional slow), you'll have earned yourself a free kill with skullcracker/low blows.
2. Lurker's Assault. Teleport to your target and enjoy tons of stealth and a huge damage boost. This is most often my second go-to daily.
3. Bloodbath. This makes a good "Oh shxt" button, since you are immune to damage for the duration, and spend the whole time life stealing away. I usually use this against tougher enemies.
Class Features:
Advantageous Positioning - after stealth ends get 8 seconds of combat advantage. You want to be going into steal at least every 8 seconds because you always want combat advantage.
Oppressive Darkness - deal additional piercing damage whenever you deal combat advantage. Since you're going for constant combat advantage, this will be a huge buff to your damage, especially against OP/GF's.
Playing this Scoundrel
The main trick to this playstyle is being able to hit someone with the "flurry" part of duelists flurry. It's a sore subject in pvp right now, but stamina drain wards, if you have access to them, make it much easier, since they simply stop dodging after a while. (Many people get upset about these though.) For this, you can use Stealth (they won't see the wind up) or daze (they can't dodge away) or courage breaker + control effects to get the hits you need. This is also where I try to use my stealth, on this "flurry" to get stealth auto-crits, lostmauth procs with combat advantage with bonus damage because the first strike hopefully procs concussive strikes to daze them. I've taken toons out with this one rotation, although usually it takes more than this. The bleed is sometimes what finishes them off.Beyond that, knowing how to debuff the enemy is a good point as well. Usually, when I'm about to enter a 1v1, i'll pop vengeances pursuit and disheartening strike (DHS) right away, and I'll only be in melee range if i'm going for duelists flurry, otherwise i'm keeping my distance and using DHS to either wittle down their health, or to limit their healing as much as I can. I've managed well against some pretty well geared players with this strategy.
I used to be a whisperknife scoundrel in pvp (then I took an arrow to the knee), but Siege lag was killing me, so I went to MI saboteur lazy build, then I just stopped playing pvp.
However, I very much enjoyed determined pursuit from executioner tree. You have to drop something for it, but for me, it totally worth it. I'm not sure the interrupt worked, but the 40% slow was very much noticable, slow+smoke bomb+duelist is crazy good, and very much fun. You don't need stamina drain enchant for this. I don't really know if it works in highend pvp due to the high control resists.