Knight's Valor Buff

juliofp70 · December 2015

We need a buff in this power to be more balance when it comes to tank... GF's are way behind OP's and since i dont see any nerf happening to bubble i think GF's could use a buff on KV.

My sugestion is 80%-90% damage resistance rank 4, 30% is useless in T2 like eCC.

Unknown · December 2015

This content has been removed.

abmaiden95 · December 2015

i think that when u reach a good amount of base DR like 50% it is enough to tank everywhere (maybe a bit harder in edemo) so it would be bettere if they add an effect to the power then buffing DR resist which is already good.
Anyway remember that OP are stronger only for low lv gs groups, cos pro player which can survive a bit in dg prefer the 50-60% bonus dmg gave by itf and a 50% damange less than a full time bubble...

oliboyph · December 2015

yes, and probably only apply KV to party so we don't end up causing lag.

juliofp70 · December 2015

abmaiden95 said:
i think that when u reach a good amount of base DR like 50% it is enough to tank everywhere (maybe a bit harder in edemo) so it would be bettere if they add an effect to the power then buffing DR resist which is already good.
Anyway remember that OP are stronger only for low lv gs groups, cos pro player which can survive a bit in dg prefer the 50-60% bonus dmg gave by itf and a 50% damange less than a full time bubble...

with 50% DR you can survive, your party dont. Dungeons like eCC can only be done with geared players, gf cant hold a party using kv with players like 2,5k. This is a question of fairness... Its unfair a class have a power that takes 85% damage during 25s and gf's have a power that people still got one shooted.

kemi1984 · December 2015

Uhm...please allow me to step in - you're comparing hands down the most overpowered skill in the entire game if we're talking about staying alive. Divine Protector is a God mode - end of the subject.

Now, when we have this out of the line, let's talk about survivability in dungeons.

If anyone thinks that the tank should make you immortal - you're wrong.
If anyone thinks that the tank should make you're run smoother - you're right.

KV is a great way to keep party allive, again you have to gear up your char or have a clue what are you doing before you say that KV will kill your tank or other player. Of course pallys bubble is better, it's better than anything else in the game lol! but I don't want to hear that KV is bad. If you're killing your tank it's because you're stupid enough to stand in the red all the time and not looking at the mob attack pattern. If a player do not read the game, do not see where the attack is coming from and do not avoid it if he can...than you're doing it wrong and killing your tank.

Again I say this...OP's OPness makes normal players - bad players. It makes people learning the game, much worse than they actually should be. You're shutting down your brain under Pallys bubble - button masher mode engaged.

I don't give a HAMSTER about all the nonsense, I would like to see people thinking while playing - that's the reason I want to see the class put where it should be, as a competitive tank next to GF. NOT a superhero OP class that is far beyond being fair and fun to play.

To add to it, I'm more than happy where the GF is now in PVE and PVP (not a PVPer myself). Good survivability, good DPS, great party utility and we're STILL the most sexy class out there lol !

juliofp70 · December 2015

kemi1984 said:
Uhm...please allow me to step in - you're comparing hands down the most overpowered skill in the entire game if we're talking about staying alive. Divine Protector is a God mode - end of the subject.

Now, when we have this out of the line, let's talk about survivability in dungeons.

If anyone thinks that the tank should make you immortal - you're wrong.
If anyone thinks that the tank should make you're run smoother - you're right.

KV is a great way to keep party allive, again you have to gear up your char or have a clue what are you doing before you say that KV will kill your tank or other player. Of course pallys bubble is better, it's better than anything else in the game lol! but I don't want to hear that KV is bad. If you're killing your tank it's because you're stupid enough to stand in the red all the time and not looking at the mob attack pattern. If a player do not read the game, do not see where the attack is coming from and do not avoid it if he can...than you're doing it wrong and killing your tank.

Again I say this...OP's OPness makes normal players - bad players. It makes people learning the game, much worse than they actually should be. You're shutting down your brain under Pallys bubble - button masher mode engaged.

I don't give a HAMSTER about all the nonsense, I would like to see people thinking while playing - that's the reason I want to see the class put where it should be, as a competitive tank next to GF. NOT a superhero OP class that is far beyond being fair and fun to play.

To add to it, I'm more than happy where the GF is now in PVE and PVP (not a PVPer myself). Good survivability, good DPS, great party utility and we're STILL the most sexy class out there lol !

I have a great tank and im experienced... im one of the oldest gf's in this game. PVP grandmaster of gladiators and PVE with lots of runs done.

So stop being an assole saying i die in dungeon and learn to read... Where did you read that i die? Yes, Kv needs a buff! My problem is my party members, they are hitkilled (and i run kv rank 4, like all my powers).

A paladine can run dungeons without healer and crapy geared players. GF's like me can do it too (yeah i have more than 30% life steal) but players with less than 2,5k will die a lot more. Like i said, since they dont nerf bubble its fair that a gf can be dungeon friendly to lower geared players. I know many ungeared GF's battling to find a party cause nobody want them.... not everyone pay to gear up you know? Then they raise other toons and let gf alone. If i like a class i should be able to play it paying or not.

I have a 2,6k gwf much more tanky than many gf's with the same gear... even with more gear. Something is wrong with gf class.

whymushroom · December 2015

juliofp70 said:
(...) My sugestion is 80%-90% damage resistance rank 4, 30% is useless in T2 like eCC.

juliofp70 said:
(...)
Where did you read that i die? Yes, Kv needs a buff! My problem is my party members, they are hitkilled (and i run kv rank 4, like all my powers).
(...)

How would increasing KV's DR help surviving your party members?

Also I don't see how this would benefit GFs. DR reduces incoming for a maximum of 80%. Reaching a base DR of 40% is super easy. With KV as it is, you have 70% DR, almost capped. I don't see any problem with this.

There is only one problem with KV in combination with a Soulforged enchantment: when damage KV's damage causes you to die, soul does not pop.

juliofp70 · December 2015

whymushroom said:

juliofp70 said:
(...) My sugestion is 80%-90% damage resistance rank 4, 30% is useless in T2 like eCC.

juliofp70 said:
(...)
Where did you read that i die? Yes, Kv needs a buff! My problem is my party members, they are hitkilled (and i run kv rank 4, like all my powers).
(...)
How would increasing KV's DR help surviving your party members?

Also I don't see how this would benefit GFs. DR reduces incoming for a maximum of 80%. Reaching a base DR of 40% is super easy. With KV as it is, you have 70% DR, almost capped. I don't see any problem with this.

There is only one problem with KV in combination with a Soulforged enchantment: when damage KV's damage causes you to die, soul does not pop.

Dont forget moobs also have Arp.

Your making confusion

KV dont increase your DR to 80% if you have a base of 50%.... more 30% means it gives more 30% of 50%.... so you will have something like 66%. Now think about non tanky classes... A sw with 20% DR with 30% of that value increased... kv gives them 27% DR.

See why KV needs at least 80%

oliboyph · December 2015

whymushroom said:

juliofp70 said:
(...) My sugestion is 80%-90% damage resistance rank 4, 30% is useless in T2 like eCC.

juliofp70 said:
(...)
Where did you read that i die? Yes, Kv needs a buff! My problem is my party members, they are hitkilled (and i run kv rank 4, like all my powers).
(...)
How would increasing KV's DR help surviving your party members?

Also I don't see how this would benefit GFs. DR reduces incoming for a maximum of 80%. Reaching a base DR of 40% is super easy. With KV as it is, you have 70% DR, almost capped. I don't see any problem with this.

There is only one problem with KV in combination with a Soulforged enchantment: when damage KV's damage causes you to die, soul does not pop.

Yes I think this should be a priority.

kemi1984 · December 2015

juliofp70 said:

kemi1984 said:
Uhm...please allow me to step in - you're comparing hands down the most overpowered skill in the entire game if we're talking about staying alive. Divine Protector is a God mode - end of the subject.

Now, when we have this out of the line, let's talk about survivability in dungeons.

If anyone thinks that the tank should make you immortal - you're wrong.
If anyone thinks that the tank should make you're run smoother - you're right.

KV is a great way to keep party allive, again you have to gear up your char or have a clue what are you doing before you say that KV will kill your tank or other player. Of course pallys bubble is better, it's better than anything else in the game lol! but I don't want to hear that KV is bad. If you're killing your tank it's because you're stupid enough to stand in the red all the time and not looking at the mob attack pattern. If a player do not read the game, do not see where the attack is coming from and do not avoid it if he can...than you're doing it wrong and killing your tank.

Again I say this...OP's OPness makes normal players - bad players. It makes people learning the game, much worse than they actually should be. You're shutting down your brain under Pallys bubble - button masher mode engaged.

I don't give a HAMSTER about all the nonsense, I would like to see people thinking while playing - that's the reason I want to see the class put where it should be, as a competitive tank next to GF. NOT a superhero OP class that is far beyond being fair and fun to play.

To add to it, I'm more than happy where the GF is now in PVE and PVP (not a PVPer myself). Good survivability, good DPS, great party utility and we're STILL the most sexy class out there lol !

I have a great tank and im experienced... im one of the oldest gf's in this game. PVP grandmaster of gladiators and PVE with lots of runs done.

So stop being an assole saying i die in dungeon and learn to read... Where did you read that i die? Yes, Kv needs a buff! My problem is my party members, they are hitkilled (and i run kv rank 4, like all my powers).

A paladine can run dungeons without healer and crapy geared players. GF's like me can do it too (yeah i have more than 30% life steal) but players with less than 2,5k will die a lot more. Like i said, since they dont nerf bubble its fair that a gf can be dungeon friendly to lower geared players. I know many ungeared GF's battling to find a party cause nobody want them.... not everyone pay to gear up you know? Then they raise other toons and let gf alone. If i like a class i should be able to play it paying or not.

I have a 2,6k gwf much more tanky than many gf's with the same gear... even with more gear. Something is wrong with gf class.

I did not tell about you, it's about all that wining that GF blah blah blah and OP blah blah blah.

OP is much better in tanking that a GF because it's a newest class that had it's powers and feats updated to mod 6. GF is an old class with many bugs that tend to diminish his gameplay capabilities.

Class balance is what't that all about some classes are much more powerful than others but this was the case from day one in Neverwinter - I do not see it changing any time soon.

You say your party members? well they die, so what? at least there is a threat of dying which I do not see running with a bubble head OP.

I'm not questioning nor your experience or gear/skill whatever...it's just a matter of the class we play. It's rough when gearing up but one can always choose an OP and be a superman from start to finish - players choice.

And we really need to stop saying stuff about paying to gear up - it's getting old. You want to pay, you pay - you want to play to have the stuff, you play and you get it - simple.

lantern22 · January 2016

kemi1984 said:

juliofp70 said:

kemi1984 said:
Uhm...please allow me to step in - you're comparing hands down the most overpowered skill in the entire game if we're talking about staying alive. Divine Protector is a God mode - end of the subject.

Now, when we have this out of the line, let's talk about survivability in dungeons.

If anyone thinks that the tank should make you immortal - you're wrong.
If anyone thinks that the tank should make you're run smoother - you're right.

KV is a great way to keep party allive, again you have to gear up your char or have a clue what are you doing before you say that KV will kill your tank or other player. Of course pallys bubble is better, it's better than anything else in the game lol! but I don't want to hear that KV is bad. If you're killing your tank it's because you're stupid enough to stand in the red all the time and not looking at the mob attack pattern. If a player do not read the game, do not see where the attack is coming from and do not avoid it if he can...than you're doing it wrong and killing your tank.

Again I say this...OP's OPness makes normal players - bad players. It makes people learning the game, much worse than they actually should be. You're shutting down your brain under Pallys bubble - button masher mode engaged.

I don't give a HAMSTER about all the nonsense, I would like to see people thinking while playing - that's the reason I want to see the class put where it should be, as a competitive tank next to GF. NOT a superhero OP class that is far beyond being fair and fun to play.

To add to it, I'm more than happy where the GF is now in PVE and PVP (not a PVPer myself). Good survivability, good DPS, great party utility and we're STILL the most sexy class out there lol !

I have a great tank and im experienced... im one of the oldest gf's in this game. PVP grandmaster of gladiators and PVE with lots of runs done.

So stop being an assole saying i die in dungeon and learn to read... Where did you read that i die? Yes, Kv needs a buff! My problem is my party members, they are hitkilled (and i run kv rank 4, like all my powers).

A paladine can run dungeons without healer and crapy geared players. GF's like me can do it too (yeah i have more than 30% life steal) but players with less than 2,5k will die a lot more. Like i said, since they dont nerf bubble its fair that a gf can be dungeon friendly to lower geared players. I know many ungeared GF's battling to find a party cause nobody want them.... not everyone pay to gear up you know? Then they raise other toons and let gf alone. If i like a class i should be able to play it paying or not.

I have a 2,6k gwf much more tanky than many gf's with the same gear... even with more gear. Something is wrong with gf class.
I did not tell about you, it's about all that wining that GF blah blah blah and OP blah blah blah.

OP is much better in tanking that a GF because it's a newest class that had it's powers and feats updated to mod 6. GF is an old class with many bugs that tend to diminish his gameplay capabilities.

Class balance is what't that all about some classes are much more powerful than others but this was the case from day one in Neverwinter - I do not see it changing any time soon.

You say your party members? well they die, so what? at least there is a threat of dying which I do not see running with a bubble head OP.

I'm not questioning nor your experience or gear/skill whatever...it's just a matter of the class we play. It's rough when gearing up but one can always choose an OP and be a superman from start to finish - players choice.

And we really need to stop saying stuff about paying to gear up - it's getting old. You want to pay, you pay - you want to play to have the stuff, you play and you get it - simple.

And I think the reference to "learn how to play" was aimed at the party members not doing the right thing and avoiding the "red zones", as opposed to the play style of the tank / you

evalira · January 2016

Had anyone even tested KV damage resistance? Last time I looked only my normal DR was being applied and it made no difference what rank KV was at. I've seen this bug mentioned a few times as well, so maybe instead of buffing it just fix it.

bulix91 · January 2016

Personally KV for me is a temporary protection for party until I get to the mobs and focus than on myself (aggro). Than buff from ITF and with good dps mobs just disappear before that catch aggro on someone else

simple as f•••

cheers

damnacious · January 2016

As far as i was aware, KV's bonus DR% from ranks 2-4 should only apply to that damage which is received directly from players protected by KV. It is not a static DR buff. I haven't tested it to confirm whether it's working properly or not, yet I would hesitate to assume that it is based upon what i've seen.

I have no problem tanking, whether it's tanking a party of 3.4k or 2.1k players with my modest 2.7k. I almost exclusively do not lose aggro and, unless 2/5 of the party are routinely stupid and can't see the red from the trees, I can often keep a party 'alive' in all but eGWD and eCC without a healer and, if the party is good, eCC is possible without a healer too. KV plays a large part in why this is possible.

I do not have any problems with Stamina / Guard Meter as my build is a 'perma-guard'.

So, should KV be altered in any way? I do not think so. I think it's working fairly well at present. If there is a bug with that 10%DR per rank from KV not applying for some reason to damage received from party members, then a fix for that would be great.

If you'd asked me 6 months ago whether i would have wanted KV to provide an actual static 10%DR buff per rank i most likely would have said 'hell yes!' However, that 30% is not really all that necessary. It is actually reasonably possible to cap DR at 80+% (i know someone that has stacked to above 122% effective DR...for PVP). When combined with 175k HP and 45% Deflect at BiS (or thereabouts), the GF can actually be really tanky with some great survivability that is only now offset by the odd negation enchant, ring of defense, twisted set etc. One of the most important things i believe should be remembered is that a good tank will have a balance in their defensive stats. The reason for this is purely that at certain 'levels', it is more viable to put points in one stat over another - similar to Power/Crit.

Whenever i see players indicating that they are struggling to survive as a tank GF, i may often tend to find that those players are Conqueror builds with more points in Offense and Offense slots dominating gear than points in Defense and Defense slots. Similarly, when i see players indicating that they are struggling to grab and hold aggro as a tank GF, then it's most often a simple case of not using the most appropriate rotation and powers for the build and/or not using Marks as often as they should.

As indicated earlier, if your GF has good survivability and you play it well and you die more often than you should, it may often be likely that you are playing with people that like to stand in red, pull aggro first and / or a healer that is not aware that they should ignore the rest of the party to focus on you. In those instances, either develop good communication techniques or switch to something other than KV.

oliboyph · January 2016

damnacious said:
As far as i was aware, KV's bonus DR% from ranks 2-4 should only apply to that damage which is received directly from players protected by KV. It is not a static DR buff. I haven't tested it to confirm whether it's working properly or not, yet I would hesitate to assume that it is based upon what i've seen.

I have no problem tanking, whether it's tanking a party of 3.4k or 2.1k players with my modest 2.7k. I almost exclusively do not lose aggro and, unless 2/5 of the party are routinely stupid and can't see the red from the trees, I can often keep a party 'alive' in all but eGWD and eCC without a healer and, if the party is good, eCC is possible without a healer too. KV plays a large part in why this is possible.

I do not have any problems with Stamina / Guard Meter as my build is a 'perma-guard'.

So, should KV be altered in any way? I do not think so. I think it's working fairly well at present. If there is a bug with that 10%DR per rank from KV not applying for some reason to damage received from party members, then a fix for that would be great.

If you'd asked me 6 months ago whether i would have wanted KV to provide an actual static 10%DR buff per rank i most likely would have said 'hell yes!' However, that 30% is not really all that necessary. It is actually reasonably possible to cap DR at 80+% (i know someone that has stacked to above 122% effective DR...for PVP). When combined with 175k HP and 45% Deflect at BiS (or thereabouts), the GF can actually be really tanky with some great survivability that is only now offset by the odd negation enchant, ring of defense, twisted set etc. One of the most important things i believe should be remembered is that a good tank will have a balance in their defensive stats. The reason for this is purely that at certain 'levels', it is more viable to put points in one stat over another - similar to Power/Crit.

Whenever i see players indicating that they are struggling to survive as a tank GF, i may often tend to find that those players are Conqueror builds with more points in Offense and Offense slots dominating gear than points in Defense and Defense slots. Similarly, when i see players indicating that they are struggling to grab and hold aggro as a tank GF, then it's most often a simple case of not using the most appropriate rotation and powers for the build and/or not using Marks as often as they should.

As indicated earlier, if your GF has good survivability and you play it well and you die more often than you should, it may often be likely that you are playing with people that like to stand in red, pull aggro first and / or a healer that is not aware that they should ignore the rest of the party to focus on you. In those instances, either develop good communication techniques or switch to something other than KV.

I don't think that the issue being presented here is about how GF can survive receiving damage from as it is, where we would like KV to take more damage away from our party members and redirected to us. Good GF's will survive almost anything, only problem is when the smoke clears, the GF is the only one left. On the other good players who know how to avoid red will find 50% KV to be enough.

kemi1984 · January 2016

lantern22 said:

kemi1984 said:

juliofp70 said:

kemi1984 said:
Uhm...please allow me to step in - you're comparing hands down the most overpowered skill in the entire game if we're talking about staying alive. Divine Protector is a God mode - end of the subject.

Now, when we have this out of the line, let's talk about survivability in dungeons.

If anyone thinks that the tank should make you immortal - you're wrong.
If anyone thinks that the tank should make you're run smoother - you're right.

KV is a great way to keep party allive, again you have to gear up your char or have a clue what are you doing before you say that KV will kill your tank or other player. Of course pallys bubble is better, it's better than anything else in the game lol! but I don't want to hear that KV is bad. If you're killing your tank it's because you're stupid enough to stand in the red all the time and not looking at the mob attack pattern. If a player do not read the game, do not see where the attack is coming from and do not avoid it if he can...than you're doing it wrong and killing your tank.

Again I say this...OP's OPness makes normal players - bad players. It makes people learning the game, much worse than they actually should be. You're shutting down your brain under Pallys bubble - button masher mode engaged.

I don't give a HAMSTER about all the nonsense, I would like to see people thinking while playing - that's the reason I want to see the class put where it should be, as a competitive tank next to GF. NOT a superhero OP class that is far beyond being fair and fun to play.

To add to it, I'm more than happy where the GF is now in PVE and PVP (not a PVPer myself). Good survivability, good DPS, great party utility and we're STILL the most sexy class out there lol !

I have a great tank and im experienced... im one of the oldest gf's in this game. PVP grandmaster of gladiators and PVE with lots of runs done.

So stop being an assole saying i die in dungeon and learn to read... Where did you read that i die? Yes, Kv needs a buff! My problem is my party members, they are hitkilled (and i run kv rank 4, like all my powers).

A paladine can run dungeons without healer and crapy geared players. GF's like me can do it too (yeah i have more than 30% life steal) but players with less than 2,5k will die a lot more. Like i said, since they dont nerf bubble its fair that a gf can be dungeon friendly to lower geared players. I know many ungeared GF's battling to find a party cause nobody want them.... not everyone pay to gear up you know? Then they raise other toons and let gf alone. If i like a class i should be able to play it paying or not.

I have a 2,6k gwf much more tanky than many gf's with the same gear... even with more gear. Something is wrong with gf class.
I did not tell about you, it's about all that wining that GF blah blah blah and OP blah blah blah.

OP is much better in tanking that a GF because it's a newest class that had it's powers and feats updated to mod 6. GF is an old class with many bugs that tend to diminish his gameplay capabilities.

Class balance is what't that all about some classes are much more powerful than others but this was the case from day one in Neverwinter - I do not see it changing any time soon.

You say your party members? well they die, so what? at least there is a threat of dying which I do not see running with a bubble head OP.

I'm not questioning nor your experience or gear/skill whatever...it's just a matter of the class we play. It's rough when gearing up but one can always choose an OP and be a superman from start to finish - players choice.

And we really need to stop saying stuff about paying to gear up - it's getting old. You want to pay, you pay - you want to play to have the stuff, you play and you get it - simple.
And I think the reference to "learn how to play" was aimed at the party members not doing the right thing and avoiding the "red zones", as opposed to the play style of the tank / you

Exactly so, I was talking about people that are so used to ignore powerful attacks because they've played with bubble OP.
If you felt offended by my paragraph than I apologise - no harm done I hope

.

We're here to give each other tips, for both veteran GF's and new players. I like that our class forums is clean and much more civil than some of the others - let's keep it that way shall we ?:)

On the topic of KV. Again I think that the skill is great and it's more than sufficient to help us build threat and protect the team members. Looking at R7/R8 prices and proper build it's quite easy to build a 2,5kish GF that should do good in group content.

jumpingmorks · January 2016

No no no no no. And just incase I haven't made myself clear enough, no.

GF's do not need a buff, I love my GF and the last thing I want to see is a killer class buff added before the community collectively implodes and we are nerfed into oblivion much like SW's have been. We are in a very good place right now, we don't need a buff and we certainly don't need to be killed off if you ever get your way.

Knight's Valor Buff

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