Let us get the +5 rings that we want

lazaroth666 · December 2015

Before even Mod8 started, we were reading in every dev blog, every interview with the devs, etc that one of the main features that each one of these had in common was the following:

Replayable vs. Repeatable

In any piece of content that you play more than once, there’s a danger that after you basically understand what’s going on, you don’t need to really pay attention anymore. Eventually, the content can be played by muscle memory; it becomes repeatable. Once this happens, you stop really engaging. When you’re no longer engaged, everything feels like a chore.

Well, actually, it's even worse now than before, a lot worse.

Why having success in each one of the new skirmishes and both non-epic and epic versions of Demogorgon must be like "rolling the dice" and hoping to get something? Is there any point in not rewarding players for their effort? What's the point in playing if the effort of a highly geared character means the same than a fresh player who is entering in the event for the first time? Now, please, do not misunderstood my words here, I'm not telling in any way the higher your IL, higher should be your reward. My point is very simple: let us play knowing that sooner or later we are going to achieve our rewards, either by effort or luck. I've already done no less than 150 runs and I haven't find yet the first ring +5 and I want to equip two characters, so let's say that I finally got some luck and I got one after 200 runs... but I need 3 more! Do you seriously believe that I'm going to run again 600 times these skirmishes/dungeons? No way!!!

Every time that I go to Demogorgon, it's always the same. I feel like there's no point in running that event or that I don't even want to push myself to get a better result because is meaningless, getting bronze, silver or gold... Any difference in drop rate for legendary rings?. In contrast with Tiamat, every time that we had success defeating her we were rewarded with a Linu's Favor, so every run meant that I was getting closer to achieve my goals (last ToD's campaign boons) so I didn't feel like it like a chore, even doing it with both of my main characters (we are talking about more than 160 runs).

Finally, in the description of rewards that we can get in every one of the new events, it's stated very clearly that some of these rewards are "rarely" obtainable like Demogorgon Artifact Weapon, "On Madness", Demogorgon's fang. However, after all my runs, I have already got 2 weapons, 6 tomes, 10 fangs but zero rings.

Let us trade some faerzress, twisted ichor, demonic ichor, +3 or +4 rings, whatever, for a +5 ring. Just give us a reason to keep playing this.

kemi1984 · December 2015

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/categories/general-discussion-pc

Unknown · December 2015

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flyingleon · December 2015

If something is so rare like +5 ring, I will not work for it. If "none" can get it, why bother?After I heard the rate is so low, I will just expect a +4 rings.

Unknown · December 2015

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tyrtallow · December 2015

These are end-game rings. Many of them are even better than the ones you get from Jewelcrafting. They're account bound, so you only need to get them once, and you have some control over who to bring with you when tackling Underdark content.

Should we start asking Cryptic for free 5k zen coupons next?

urabask · December 2015

tyrtallow said:
These are end-game rings. Many of them are even better than the ones you get from Jewelcrafting. They're account bound, so you only need to get them once, and you have some control over who to bring with you when tackling Underdark content.

Should we start asking Cryptic for free 5k zen coupons next?

: |

I don't understand why people get convinced that when Cryptic puts an orange border around something it has to have a .01% drop rate.

Maybe you're fine with this being content you never get but I don't really see the point in them existing at their current drop rate.

suicidalgodot · December 2015

tyrtallow said:
These are end-game rings. Many of them are even better than the ones you get from Jewelcrafting. They're account bound, so you only need to get them once, and you have some control over who to bring with you when tackling Underdark content.

Should we start asking Cryptic for free 5k zen coupons next?

...what would be wrong with a selection menu, like in the dungeon end-chests?

"Give a choice" and "want for free" are somewhat different aspects... ...and you're barking up the wrong tree here, IMHO.

With the probably +/- 0.5% chance to get a legendary at all, it's sincerely anticlimactic to then get the Legendary Ring of Utter Uselessness - even if it's BoA.

tyrtallow · December 2015

1) Because you don't actually NEED them.
2) Because you only need to get them ONCE.
3) Because if you keep working on your character/s you're going to get them anyway.
4) Because aiming for triple golds actually gives you something to work for.
5) Because many people spent months and several hundred thousand AD just to get their Jewelcrafting rings.
6) Because you can get really good ones just by doing skirmishes/HEs.
7) Because you can get filthy rich just by attempting to get them.

Edit:
I suppose it's not unreasonable to ask for a feature that allows you to exchange multiple legendary rings you already have for some other legendary ring, though.
The OP is obviously not asking for a choice. He believes that he deserves those rings by law of conservation of luck.

urabask · December 2015

tyrtallow said:
1) Because you don't actually NEED them.
2) Because you only need to get them ONCE.
3) Because if you keep working on your character/s you're going to get them anyway.
4) Because aiming for triple golds actually gives you something to work for.
5) Because many people spent months and several hundred thousand AD just to get their Jewelcrafting rings.

1)Trying to justify the drop rate because you don't need them makes no sense. Even end game content is supposed to be something that you can get before the end of a mod. If it was something we're not supposed to have a good chance of getting in three months then there was no point in adding it to the game.

2and 3)No you won't. New mods will come out and you'll stop playing any of the underdark content that has a chance to drop +5 rings enough to have what little chance you have at getting them.

That and you're just bad at math if you think the drop rate on the rings is reasonable. The .02% drop rate is for ANY +5 ring. Typically you'll need 2/17 of them and any area drops around five different rings. Just grinding the normal rings should make it obvious enough that even if you get a +5 ring it's probably going to be one that you do not need.

Getting them once is going to be boring and stupid. Content like this is supposed to encourage you to play it in order to get rewards like this. The sense of futility that sinks in after you 200th skirmish is not going to make you keep going at it. Most people will move onto new content.

4)Triple gold is not something you need to work for. It's just busy work that alienates anyone but DPS classes. I mean in PoM why would you want anything but five DPS characters? Every time I see 2+ support characters in a skirmish I know it's probably going to be right up against clock. It's terrible design and makes the skirmishes boring.

5) : |

What like eight months ago? Like you said, they're still good. But if I could replace them with new better rings I don't think I'm the only one that would be fine with it.

tyrtallow · December 2015

1) Actually, it does. You don't need them, so drops are not guaranteed by law of conservation of luck.
End-game gear is end-game, regardless of mods. High Prophet, High Vizier, Miracle Healer... these sets survived for at least 5 mods. More recently, we've had the artifacts/artifact gear. The RP value of these items has survived since at least mod 3.
2-3) Conjecture and conspiracy theories. Not to mention that actual evidence is overwhelmingly against you (enchants, artifact gear RP value, artifacts, these have survived multiple mods).
4) False. "Bring all DPS" is the brain dead approach. I've gotten triple gold with a DC, two CWs and a GWF (four people, yeah) in PoM. All with only blue-purple artifact gear. We used a certain thing called "tactics".
Your statement proves that the average skill level in Neverwinter has dropped considerably the last few months, though.
I personally blame the power creep, not willing to go there but it is relevant to this topic.
5) So you're basically after instant gratification.

deathbeez · December 2015

+5? I've not even gotten a +4. Only a few +3s.
It's pretty cruel to have something with this low of a drop rate and also bound on pickup.
Lets say the day might come and you get that +5, and it's useless for your class. *face palm*

thefabricant · December 2015

I think the important part of what lazaroth said is the point about not feeling like you ever progressing. With tiamat, you actually progressed towards your goals, even if it is slow. Also, lets put this into context, we are talking about an item with a really low droprate, that you don't really expect to get, but its nice if you do. In tiamat, the example of this would be tiamat's orb, which as cryptic would have it, likely has the same drop rate as the rings and yet is BoE. Meaning, that even if you never get it to drop (but you are working towards it) if it never drops, at least you can buy it on the AH. Whats even worse with these rings is even if you do get lucky and get a legendary ring, it is likely not the one you need. To put it into context, the way loot rolls in most games work is as follows, the game first rolls for the tier of loot you recieve, in other words, the quality, then it rolls for the items within that tier. In tiamat, there is only a single item in the highest tier, which means if you get the highest tier reward, its always that item. In demogorgon, you have to do both rolls, meaning that if the drop chance in the first tier in tiamat is the same as the drop chance in the first category in demo, the drop chance in demo for a specific ring is still substantially lower because it has to then do that second roll.

The major issue is these things have a worse drop rate then artifacts like the horn of blasting in elol and unlike the horn, there is no way to acquire them in the event that you do not get lucky. Does this effect me? not particularly, I am a pve purist and thus I do not need the rings. Does it effect pvp players? Absolutely, the player with the better rng has better rings, rings the opposition has no way of getting a hold of outside of also getting lucky and this makes an unfair playing ground ruled by rng.

and @urabask yes atm I have had 20 horn drops in total, at approx 1 every 150 runs. If we use this as our baseline rng model for getting a drop in the highest loot tier, then not even I would bet on getting the ring you want anytime this mod and that is even if you did nothing but farm demo till next mod. Forget about the rings as is, you not getting the one you want.

wylonus · December 2015

these are the worst rings ever, i refused to "Trade Down" my 2 sockets rings for single slot and no stat rings?

devs, yes you heard me.

best i got was few +3, and been getting wrong types of rings for my class, so, they all end up fed to the Mimic, aka "Chester".

Unknown · December 2015

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zibadawa · December 2015

carrytiex said:
Don't worry there will be artifact rings next module where you can choose your passive with the use of cubes of augmentation.

And they'll refine all the way up to mythic! Who's ready to farm up half a billion rp in resonance stones? Woo!

zacazu · December 2015

just one point in this whole discussion (iam still in the first page):

someone who made 150 times the same dungeon to get an item "x" WILL PLAY ANOTHER THOUSAND OF HOURS to test your"new performance".

Now, someone like me, who ran no more than 30/40 will not run 150 times knowing that the probability of success is so remote. And since i dont see progression or a horizon of reasonable possibilities ...

the game today works like "letme see howmuch strong i can be" for the big majority of players, so... its not about be fair, lazy or i dont know; the game need be challenging, and not just smash buttons and cross the fingers in the end to maybe come what i want.

jaotut · December 2015

These +5 rings should definitely be BoE, it will bring the game back to life because people will have more incentive to try and make some AD by selling these, and plenty of people who are willing to pay for it. Just like how the original T2 gear, and lostmauth set were, they were good for the game.

Drop rate of these rings need to be adjusted. it can stay the same for not achieving all gold, but getting 3 gold should be 3 or 4 times more likely to get them. Right now, I'm pretty sure the quality of the rings has nothing to do with the quality of your performance.

...and come on, getting all gold in epic demo should at least give a guaranteed +3 or better ring, whether we want to use it as surplus for guild coffer, or salvage for higher amount. Pretty sad to all line up for the chest at the end of epic demo for that +1 ring.

tyrtallow · December 2015

The difference is that you actually needed the Lostmauth set at one point (mod6). Even Linus were important at one point because of Tiamat, artifact gear (which you had to refine and wait x2 RP events for) and boons.
These rings serve absolutely no other purpose besides making our characters look nicer. They're end-game items, and I don't mean "YEAH! Now I can start working on end game content!" items but "OMG I got them so why am I still playing?" items.
Purple level gear is already enough for content atm. Legendaries/mythicals are overkill with the proper skill/build. PvP is already broken, the last thing we need is a bunch of people in Legendaries running around with +30% extra mitigation or stealth. Because seriously, who else do you think is going is going to get these rings if you make them tradeable for droppable gear? Do you honestly think that people who are still juggling campaigns/dailies/character progress are going to have as much time to consistently do Demo/PoM/ToDG/HE runs as people who are in rank 10s or better?

The best thing the devs can do atm is to prioritize fixing the major problems of the game. Once improving +5 ring drop rate no longer has a potential negative effect, then they can do whatever.

urabask · December 2015

tyrtallow said:
The difference is that you actually needed the Lostmauth set at one point (mod6). Even Linus were important at one point because of Tiamat, artifact gear (which you had to refine and wait x2 RP events for) and boons.
These rings serve absolutely no other purpose besides making our characters look nicer. They're end-game items, and I don't mean "YEAH! Now I can start working on end game content!" items but "OMG I got them so why am I still playing?" items.
Purple level gear is already enough for content atm. Legendaries/mythicals are overkill with the proper skill/build. PvP is already broken, the last thing we need is a bunch of people in Legendaries running around with +30% extra mitigation or stealth. Because seriously, who else do you think is going is going to get these rings if you make them tradeable for droppable gear? Do you honestly think that people who are still juggling campaigns/dailies/character progress are going to have as much time to consistently do Demo/PoM/ToDG/HE runs as people who are in rank 10s or better?

The best thing the devs can do atm is focus on fixing what's wrong with the game.

BWAHAHAHAHA.

All those 4.2k ilvl premades really need a +5 rings to stomp pugs into the ground. They aren't already just camping spawns and winning 5v1s.

Not sure how you could be more obtuse but you'll probably figure it out.

tyrtallow · December 2015

So agreeing that PvP is broken does... what for your argument exactly?
BTW, PvP is broken even among people with the same iLvL. I'll let you ponder how +5 rings would affect that one.

Granted, thinking about newbies getting +5 rings made me realize that making them BoE might also be reasonable.

namelesshero347 · December 2015

urabask said:

Maybe you're fine with this being content you never get but I don't really see the point in them existing at their current drop rate.

They exist to entice people to spend endless hours grinding for something they will probably never see. These are the only items that will keep people grinding long after getting the drowcraft armor and twisted weapons, both of which are fairly easy grinds that can be done in under a month and a half.

snotty · December 2015

Here is my 2 cents.
Since the drop rate for those +5 rings are so low I see no reason for there not to be a choice when you actually get the drop. I think a simple NPC that allows you to trade your +5 ring for another +5 ring that you'd rather have is the best way to go.

That being said. I don't understand why people bother chasing BiS gear in this game. We all know that in another mod or two you will be chasing yet another piece of BiS gear with a crappy drop rate. We've all seen it too many times.

first it was CN gear.
Mods 2 and 3 offered Fabled Iliyanbruen and Dread Legion gear sets but most people stuck with CN gear.
Mod 4 gave us the Black Ice gear
Mod 5 gave us Infernal and artifact gear.
Mod 6, the devs said screw all your old gear, its now completely useless. Heres elemental weapons and gear.
Mod 7 gave us guild gear. Which many guilds grinded like crazy to be able to get that gear and be ready for the weapons.
and here we are in Mod 8 with 5 new weapon sets that all have the same stats as the guild weapons which means all you're choosing is the set bonuses. Plus new gear, so after everyone drove themselves crazy getting personalized rings now we're supposed to chase these new rings.

So good luck to those of you chasing the newest must have BiS items, I hope its worth lasts more then a mod or 2.

rayrdan · December 2015

Yes at least give us a trading npc

kreatyve · December 2015

Ok, I had hoped that this would resolve itself without moderator interference, but I guess I was wrong. I just had to remove a 17 comment flame war from this topic, just so that it stays on topic and somewhat still makes sense. People, please, if you feel that someone is flaming - report it! Do not quote them, and do not reply to them. This in and of itself is a violation of the rules and it will be removed.

I'm going to leave this topic open for now, but I am watching it. Feel free to debate, but do not personally attack anyone.

freshour · January 2016

I have 17K + on over 3 toons.... not one +5 ring... My GWF is 1st place every single time and gets gold almost every single run. My CW is top 3 DPS every single time and has gotten gold over 90%... my GF is the same story.....

- it is tottaaallllly RNG. I know people with 2-3 rings who have done it maybe 40-50x. I've done it over a thousand I would say as I had almost a stack of those refinement before they fixed the key bug on the chest lol which made it then more useless as I didn't even get the RP.

Yes those rings are better than rosegold for pvp if you get the one you want. No, no one will ever get all the rings. Yes maybe one or two people have two rings that they want and they are incredibly lucky. I have ran my friends through hundreds and seen 1 drop.

- Total RNG, no rhyme or reason for who gets it. My GF friend who got it when I was carrying on my gwf was like... bottom in damage taken, damage dealt etc... I think he even healed him once lol.

Drop rate is way too low. These rings will be replaced in a mod or two. Seriously way way too low. I bet I could refine an artifact wep to legendary using my daily rp from praying before I could get a +5 ring... okay I lied. I got 3 weapons and 2 items to legendary on alts lol.... and still not +5 ring... I just wish it had something to do with performance and not blind luck.

Let us get the +5 rings that we want

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