I dont like the removal of DPS/HEAL/DAMAGE charts.

silverkelt · November 2015

Im sorry, but I like to see the #s.

Ive never used them to accuse, kick or abuse people, but I definitely have offered advice in the past, I also like to see who tops charts so I can review their equipment and ask questions about their build. That is how Ive learned in alot of games. Since going back to eq1 when I found the huge importance of damage per second (duh dps!) on my ranger, and that the damage of the weapon daggers I was wielding wasnt nearly as important as the speed of each one, you had to do the math yourself back then... there was no friendly acts and charts to help.

I know there are people who didnt use it for that.. but I dont care about those people.. I care about the people I run with. Yes.. I know I can just run ACT.. but sometimes act causes some issues with the game in a wierd interaction way.

Yes, I know alot of you will be like, BLAH BLAH BLAH.. people used to kick people ect ect ect.

Its just the same argument all the way around about the guild totals.

I didnt use it for that.. I dont even want to hear it. Fine you can have that point, but what about mine? I want to see the #s so I can improve, give advice, talk with the community at large and see where im at in the skirms. I want to HOLD my own , Ill never have BiS toons , because I make 4-5 toons that are playable, so my resources are spread out, but I want to make sure Im not the cause of a silver run..

These new skirms really require some dps care. We need to be able to give advice to people! Im not talking about removing people, or kicking them..and no I understand it doesnt take BiS to get gold.. so Im not going there either!

Why was it removed? we cant coddle and protect everyone in game! People should want to improve!

thefabricant · November 2015

True, it should be brought back and improved. I almost always run act, but not everyone should have to always run act and something like it should be built into the game.

lirithiel · November 2015

Recount FTW!

kemi1984 · November 2015

I'm sorry but about what charts are you talking about?

ironzerg79 · November 2015

I love it. I absolutely love it.

Now the focus of the group is to work together as a team to earn bronze/silver/gold. No more "me first" trying to chase Paingiver.

Subtle, but definitely one of the first things I noticed doing the new skirmishes and Demogorgon, and a welcomed change.

But to @silverkelt I can say with great confidence that those scoreboards tell you very little about what's actually going on. If you want to learn about the mechanics, digest info and make better build decisions, you need to run ACT. And I've been running it regularly for a couple years now and have never had any in-game conflicts with it.

silverkelt · November 2015

so.. the game cant code things right.. thats always been apparent, I never used it as gospel, but just a general checklist.

I wish they could give us a relevant in game tool then. If they want to remove that.. give us something similar to act, that I can turn on and off at will in game.

Like I said before, there has been times that act itself has caused my client to crash.. I do not know why, but it has, I will run it once in awhile, but I hate to take that chance.

umsche · November 2015

ironzerg79 said:
I love it. I absolutely love it.

Now the focus of the group is to work together as a team to earn bronze/silver/gold. No more "me first" trying to chase Paingiver.

Subtle, but definitely one of the first things I noticed doing the new skirmishes and Demogorgon, and a welcomed change.

I share the same feeling and think they should do that with every existing skirmish and dungeon.

umsche · November 2015

So you actually improve your character just to be #1 at paingiver?

Well you could improve it to help your team get gold ranking easier now.

silverkelt · November 2015

Im a little disheartened that alot of you basically jump to the very thing I asked you not to jump to.. I could care less about the crowd that would kick anyone.

I used it as a general tool to interact with the community. now that the tool is gone, I feel disappointed, as a game that once waffled AT all in allowing ACT, or third party items, I find it a little ironic, that now its all I can use during these.

Yes.. I know it offers WAY more information.. that wasn't my point.

I wouldnt mind a MORE expanded combat log that I could use in a in-game process though. Barring that, I see no real reason to remove the charts.

Question, does the new skirms not counter towards titles?

Anyone else feel that a little wrong?

plasticbat · November 2015

I don't care one way or the other.

However, I don't mind to see 2 charts: the old chart and the new chart (using different command to make them show), or one chart to show both.

I don't care about ranking but I don't mind to see it if I want to.

d4rthd00fus · November 2015

Just another case of jackassery by a few ruining it for all. And yea, no surprise that folks who don't care about personal performance and improvement, to the detriment of their team would be all for this. They don't like being at the bottom of the charts, but not enough to improve. Now their tender snowflake egos will be saved and no one needs know how bad or good each other are doing.

skalt112 · November 2015

They took this out for the same reason they don't allow 10 man premades. They want better players to carry not so good players through. It's like the tax system. You charge the successful more in order to try and uplift the losers. When a couple of your "team mates" keep you from achieveing gold, because they couldn't pull off 2 mil damage in a t1 dungeon on thier best day, the game makers want you to believe it's your fault.

Everybody gets a trophy, nobody gets a prize.

schietindebux · November 2015

i think its a good way, I run lots of dungeons, allways pressing x only to get the confirmation being on top of the charts, its like a bad habit and is in the long not much fun because you start running after the paingiver instinctively....
without that its the group that works or doesn´t and it will be muc more relaxing

pricetagcloud · November 2015

Those charts should be available to use, but in those particular skirmishes and Demogorgon, DPS isn't king. It's about completing those objectives and those objectives require having a tank and healer focusing on keeping ppl alive while everyone else focuses on the objectives on hand first, then dps second. I like it a lot. The DPS chart would be nice though to make sure enough dmg is being dealt to the bosses specifically.

vinceent1 · November 2015

pricetagcloud said:
Those charts should be available to use, but in those particular skirmishes and Demogorgon, DPS isn't king. It's about completing those objectives and those objectives require having a tank and healer focusing on keeping ppl alive while everyone else focuses on the objectives on hand first, then dps second. I like it a lot. The DPS chart would be nice though to make sure enough dmg is being dealt to the bosses specifically.

are you sure? isnt best tactics like that - everyone not with aggro currently close some portal no matter of specs?

pricetagcloud · November 2015

vinceent1 said:

pricetagcloud said:
Those charts should be available to use, but in those particular skirmishes and Demogorgon, DPS isn't king. It's about completing those objectives and those objectives require having a tank and healer focusing on keeping ppl alive while everyone else focuses on the objectives on hand first, then dps second. I like it a lot. The DPS chart would be nice though to make sure enough dmg is being dealt to the bosses specifically.
are you sure? isnt best tactics like that - everyone not with aggro currently close some portal no matter of specs?

Maintain the aggro from the new mobs that spawn and close all the tears, yes it's a pretty basic strategy, but that's what gets you gold. theoretically, you could not kill one mob, but focus on the tears and still get gold (theoretically, because ppl would still need to be alive to close tears).

And I overgeneralized, so I apologize for that. I didn't play much of the Dwarven God skirmish, so that might be different. But PoM should easily be done with good aggro maintenance and healing.

mamalion1234 · November 2015

pricetagcloud said:

vinceent1 said:

pricetagcloud said:
Those charts should be available to use, but in those particular skirmishes and Demogorgon, DPS isn't king. It's about completing those objectives and those objectives require having a tank and healer focusing on keeping ppl alive while everyone else focuses on the objectives on hand first, then dps second. I like it a lot. The DPS chart would be nice though to make sure enough dmg is being dealt to the bosses specifically.
are you sure? isnt best tactics like that - everyone not with aggro currently close some portal no matter of specs?
Maintain the aggro from the new mobs that spawn and close all the tears, yes it's a pretty basic strategy, but that's what gets you gold. theoretically, you could not kill one mob, but focus on the tears and still get gold (theoretically, because ppl would still need to be alive to close tears).

And I overgeneralized, so I apologize for that. I didn't play much of the Dwarven God skirmish, so that might be different. But PoM should easily be done with good aggro maintenance and healing.

That is good actually because the purpose is: if you have a paladin or a guardian fighter is a lot easier( necessity of the support for faster clear a skirmish). AND Cleric is good everyone is good. I Dont have concerns about the classes i have concerns for the person behind the class :P
AN example if guardian fighter queue and never mark and doesnt use into the fray then is uselless in the pt.

IN Those skirmishes the design give me the opportunity to play every encounter on my gf. some monsters need fast control and burst like bone golems ( fray-crescendo-flourish-anvil of doom). IN prophecy of madness enforced threat and tab when is on cooldown to get the monsters away from the players try close the tears. THose things a leaderboard or the act cant show.

LEADERBOARD or act cannot show also : too many mobs and gwf for god sake do crescendo instead spinning strike.

pricetagcloud · November 2015

mamalion1234 said:
That is good actually because the purpose is: if you have a paladin or a guardian fighter is a lot easier( necessity of the support for faster clear a skirmish). AND Cleric is good everyone is good. I Dont have concerns about the classes i have concerns for the person behind the class :P

Yes, when I run on my healadin we have a pretty easy time staying alive because I'm running around in circles grabbing mobs after tears close while the other guys are running and closing new tears. Then when we're out of tears, we kill the mobs. Rinse wash repeat. Gold is easily had during the first two phases.

silverkelt · November 2015

you'all crazy.

Kill everything, open all the portals, kill everything.. I guess a GF with insta aggro wouldnt be a bad tactic, but dont think for a second that a average group needs any heals here.

urabask · November 2015

skalt112 said:
They took this out for the same reason they don't allow 10 man premades. They want better players to carry not so good players through. It's like the tax system. You charge the successful more in order to try and uplift the losers. When a couple of your "team mates" keep you from achieveing gold, because they couldn't pull off 2 mil damage in a t1 dungeon on thier best day, the game makers want you to believe it's your fault.

Everybody gets a trophy, nobody gets a prize.

99.9% of the time when you miss gold it's because idiots can't aim thoons/thatbossinDemogorgon into the right spot : |

DPS really isn't a problem.

pricetagcloud · November 2015

silverkelt said:
you'all crazy.

Kill everything, open all the portals, kill everything.. I guess a GF with insta aggro wouldnt be a bad tactic, but dont think for a second that a average group needs any heals here.

Running with some less-than-ideal pugs will make healing a necessity. Even then, faster to gold the better. I don't even see how that would be a bad strategy for a guild run; it just makes sense.

silverkelt · November 2015

pom and throne are different.. poms gating is killing things as quick as you can.. thrones are the darn hulks.. I dont know why poeple bother with the mob packs, just sit in front of the gates, everyone, all group, have one person with range tag a hulk. but no.. everyone has to run around =P

notsosweetness · November 2015

ironzerg79 said:
I love it. I absolutely love it.

Now the focus of the group is to work together as a team to earn bronze/silver/gold. No more "me first" trying to chase Paingiver.

Subtle, but definitely one of the first things I noticed doing the new skirmishes and Demogorgon, and a welcomed change.

But to @silverkelt I can say with great confidence that those scoreboards tell you very little about what's actually going on. If you want to learn about the mechanics, digest info and make better build decisions, you need to run ACT. And I've been running it regularly for a couple years now and have never had any in-game conflicts with it.

umsche said:

ironzerg79 said:
I love it. I absolutely love it.

Now the focus of the group is to work together as a team to earn bronze/silver/gold. No more "me first" trying to chase Paingiver.

Subtle, but definitely one of the first things I noticed doing the new skirmishes and Demogorgon, and a welcomed change.
I share the same feeling and think they should do that with every existing skirmish and dungeon.

I love em gone as well. Never liked the things and have grumbled about em for years. This change was gooood!

grimah · November 2015

As someone who like to improve builds and such. I'm glad it is gone. Its just alot of misinformation and its doesn't tell you any of the useful information you need.

If you really want to improve your build. Use ACT. You can then record only important things like boss fights, see what other encounters people are using and how much % each of their and your skills are doing.

The most important thing is to have success and fun. now maybe people will play a pace of their own choosing.

lorelian1 · November 2015

Myself, I rarely even looked at that box at the end but sometimes, especially after gear changes it is nice to be able to go do a skirmish that I know I tend to heal at a certain number for instance and see if anything's changed since the gear swap. If I'm used to healing 10 million in dread ring and the gear change took me to 7 consistently I need to see what changed to drop my healing so much. Then you also have the ten year old phenomena, my bf likes to say nany nany boo boo too his buds on the team when he out damages them on their melee toons. I think that box should be put back on the new stuff or made an option can be turned on and off someplace on the tool bar or in options. I see a definite use for it. Yes I already have heard the b*tching about the fact the box isn't on the new stuff.

snotty · November 2015

silverkelt said:
pom and throne are different.. poms gating is killing things as quick as you can.. thrones are the darn hulks.. I dont know why poeple bother with the mob packs, just sit in front of the gates, everyone, all group, have one person with range tag a hulk. but no.. everyone has to run around =P

Its almost ironic but when I watch people killing, aggroing, misdirecting the hulks, it almost seems like they are the same people that would chase paingiver if the leader board was still there,

The problem with the leader board is it was too much of a good/bad thing often leaning too much to the bad side. I do understand totally what you are saying about using it to offer advice to people, that's the good side. When my TR is top DPS a quarter way through a dungeon over the CWs and GWFs, I know its a low DPS team and change how I run, that's the good side. When I see an equally geared GWF dealing 20-40mill less dmg then my GWF, I offer them advice if they want, that's the good side.

When everyone is running mindlessly ahead to get the first hit, that's the bad side. When they're wildly aggroing everything so they can boost their DPS ranking, that's the bad side. When being ranked #1 is more important to them then anything else, that's the bad side.

Sadly too many players fall on the bad side and we are partly to blame. We tend to believe in the fallacy that someone with a high ILV is going to be better then a low ILV even though that guy with the low ILV might be a much better team player, knows what he's doing and doesn't cause team wipes. Leader boards dont show this, And the leader board is too easy to manipulate, sure, if I run ahead of everyone killing the mobs before you can get to them, im going to have higher DPS ranking then you, where as if I ran with the team I might be rank 2nd or 3rd.

I'd suggest bringing back boards that show only your stats but thats kind of worthless info If theres nothing to compare it to.

zacazu · November 2015

you have others scenarios to measure that... is great see the devs thinking "outside the box" in this one. by the way, i want see more differents alternatives for everthing.

I dont like the removal of DPS/HEAL/DAMAGE charts.

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