terror is the best "tanking" chant. massive debuff. , pfire works as a cheaper alternative
as for sets you wont get much from any of them. i got a 6% gain from lostmauth. and a 1% gain from imperial dragon. but im built around recovery for bubble/encounter spam and dont parse my dailies.
the tank sets (selardine/lathander) arent really useful if you build to permabubble. i'll leave those for the GF's amd bulwark builds)
personally i like the imperial dragon neck( valindras is nice too), the greater plated belt of con ( tons of hp, con for more hp, arpen and defense) , and recovery/ap on my artis. for a tanking set. and i use silveries and cruels for the offensive slots, all my gear also has recovery on it. 35 second refresh on circle of power, tab puts it at 13.
i have a second set of gear ( lostmauth, arpen and power and a couple of elven pieces with "dmg stats") i wear for doing dailies as my recovery gear means i have the dps of a wet kitten. and i dont need all that recovery to kill solo . firing off a divine judgement every 14 seconds is fun and all but if it doesnt hit hard what does it matter.
Ok dufisto, thanks, im devotion, so my shield of faith is always up as long as i charge AP, so i will go for recovery. Actually im not using any set! , im just using the imperial neck, blue belt of CON, and normal artifacts, ill keep that, and for enchant... not sure yet, i still dont like Terror, which is the use of reducing armor if everyone penetrates through it even without the debuff? you dont need 60% armor pen for normal mobs, and for bosses, almost any good dps has 60% pen
Ok dufisto, thanks, im devotion, so my shield of faith is always up as long as i charge AP, so i will go for recovery. Actually im not using any set! , im just using the imperial neck, blue belt of CON, and normal artifacts, ill keep that, and for enchant... not sure yet, i still dont like Terror, which is the use of reducing armor if everyone penetrates through it even without the debuff? you dont need 60% armor pen for normal mobs, and for bosses, almost any good dps has 60% pen
im not sure how i missed that you were devotion ,guess i shouldnt post without coffee. sorry bout that.
arpen doesnt work that way. 60% is the cap for personal pve armor penetration, but mobs still have armor that can be reduced. which is why even with 60% arpen dps, a debuff cleric improves a groups dps considerably. the same way that even with 80% as the hard cap for damage resistance shield of faith will reduce damage further. so a 60% arpen dps against a boss mob debuffed with perf+ terror chant will see a 16% dps boost.
so my choice of weapon chants doesnt change. . terror is the best utility chant since it boosts the groups dps. and debuffs the mobs dmg output. if you can get pure+ terror & add shield of faith you're looking at mobs hiting for 30% of their normal damage before player dr gets calced. which makes most boss fights a piece of cake. i still run pfire on my dev op, mostly because i cant afford a perf+ terror chant and bang per buck pfire is pretty darn good. soulforged is my choice for pve armor. since i pull a ton of agro with bg+heals.
on my dev op my chants/artis tend to go more towards power/arpen than recovery but im slowly tweaking it to keep sheild up more. recovery is less important since while dungeoning i only have burning light to worry about. so im trying to find my balance between power and recovery. since so much of my damage can not possibly crit ( bg/aura of courage) i pretty much ignore it and i rarely find i cant heal enough that i'd need to crit those.
Yeah. if i go for power or crit, its only for my dps, because my heals are strong enough... so recovery seems to be my option, Thanks for the enchants answer! No idea about that, so, ill go Pfire i think, later terror !, thanks my friend!!!
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Yeah. if i go for power or crit, its only for my dps, because my heals are strong enough... so recovery seems to be my option, Thanks for the enchants answer! No idea about that, so, ill go Pfire i think, later terror !, thanks my friend!!!
@guiilleee Offense slots: I would recommend dark enchants if armour penetration isn't capped. Radiants or silveries otherwise, never azures.If you get silveries, you need to remember that recovery has diminishing returns, which is the reason why 200 recovery = 1% instead of 400 recovery. Most of your damage as devotion paladin comes from burning guidance, which can never crit and so azures are quite honestly wasted there.
Defense: Azures or Radiants. Defense has the opposite of diminishing returns, the more you invest in it, the more you will want to invest in it, but you got to remember it caps at 80%. With the exception of tanks and devotion paladin, it is better to invest in hp then in defense, but because of how high your defense is already, it might be better to invest in defense then HP. I haven't graphed the curves though to check this, so I mayhave to get back to you on this later.
Weapon enchant: Feytouched boosts the damage dealt by burning guidance, making it a good choice. The other debuff enchantments do not. Holy Avenger is also a good choice because its heal can proc burning guidance.
If you want an in depth explanation, you can look over my guide.
Azures or Radiants. Defense has the opposite of diminishing returns, the more you invest in it, the more you will want to invest in it, but you got to remember it caps at 80%. With the exception of tanks and devotion paladin, it is better to invest in hp then in defense, but because of how high your defense is already, it might be better to invest in defense then HP. I haven't graphed the curves though to check this, so I mayhave to get back to you on this later.
the main reason i stick with radiants for defense is more hp = more dmg from aura of courage. and since bg is a huge percentage of damage, turtleling up behind sanctuary (30% dr) when needed is often a net dps gain.
its one of the reasons im looking at dumping aura's gifts and moving to holy resurgence, and investing in some +stam artis/reinforces. more heals, more dr, more dmg all at the same time. and that will also help boost ap gain through light touched.
On my Devotion OP, I run Radiants (R10) in every defensive slot. I wanted to maximize Aura of Courage, as - when it's accompanied by the proper buffs/debuffs - is a massive DPS-boost to the entire party, along with making yourself more survivable.
When it comes to offensive slots, I've been looking for as much Power and Recovery I could get, so the Cruel Enchantment (Power and Recovery) became an obvious, albeit a slightly more costly, choice. The reason for boosting Power is that I took the feat Aura Gifts, which shares 25% of your Power with teammates. Currently working my way up to about 20.000 power. Recovery is purely for the AP-gain and some cooldown reductions, which, granted, with a Justice build aren't much of an issue anyway, but a nice back-up. A lot of my slots still hold Dark Enchantments, though, as I consider 60% ArP a must. They're slowly being phased-out, though.
Armor wise, I went with a Negation. I hardly ever have to hit the 'Call for help'-button, because Devotion OP's are tanky as hell, especially with Shield of Faith up. At a good amount of AP-gain, you'll get close to running Heroism as well as Shield of Faith, which just makes you soak up damage. You'll comfortably tank any T1, and I've tanked Temple of the Spider and Gray Wolf Den as well, although GWD is slightly more difficult. Without ever going down, I felt Soulforged was a wasted slot, and I was better served with the extra Damage Reduction from Negation. It's only a Greater right now, but come the Tradebar Store changes, I'll have it Transcendant in no time. Honestly hoping, though, that Barkshield gets another look from the Devs, as that would be more interesting for someone not often tanking.
For the weapon enchant, I went with a Transcendant Holy Avenger. It adds Damage Reduction, a decent heal - which, as @thefabricant pointed out, does proc Burning Guidance - and generally just looks nice. Some people might complain about it's uptime (33% in longer fights) but during dungeon clearing it's not much of an issue, as the cooldown usually resets when moving from one group of mobs to the other.
However, I've now set my sights on a Terror enchant. I feel completely comfortable tanking without Holy Avenger up, the Burning Guidance buff isn't tremendous and a Terror would - in my opinion - provide more for the party and myself. Someone earlier mentioned Plague Fire as the cheaper option, but I would advise against that one. A Devotion OP doesn't have the tools to keep the three stacks up reliably. The issue is that Weapon Enchants don't interact with something like Burning Light, which would be an *excellent* tool to apply it, but alas. When it comes to applying Terror: a simple Radiant Strike will have you set.
A thing to keep in mind, too, when shopping for Weapon Enchantments is if said Enchantment is often already in the party. Do often run with the same group of people? If one of them already runs Terror or Plague Fire, a second one won't do much good. This is also my issue with Feytouched. I see it way to often to consider running it. Terror is pretty prevalent, too, but I still join a lot of parties where it's just not there. Missed buff/debuff potential right there.
Lastly, item sets: Don't go out of your way to collect a full set. It's not needed. Look for a belt which matches what you need. Need more HP? Con. Belt is just fine. Need AP gain on your cloak? Find one which has the stats you need most. I've done some fooling around with the NW:Unblogged equipment tool, and am now farming for the complete Black Ice set. I wanted the Belt and the Artifact anyway, because the Belt has Constitution and Charisma, which boosts both HP for Aura of Courage and my AP-gain through Charisma, and the Artifact has Recovery and Armor Penetration, both of which I still wanted more of. I then went full HAMSTER and decided to grind out the Cloak, too. It has nothing over say a Lostmauth cloak - they're identical - but I'm a sucker for sets. Besides, there's not many people out there crazy enough to grind out that set - 500k Refined Black Ice for the Belt and Cloak - and I like to feel special.
Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
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Guys, i cant see what u see on ArPen, why is that so important ? even with 60% armor pen, The difference isnt that big.. isnt power better? more heals, power for the party, more dmg :S
arpen... ok lets say you would hit for 1000. and a mob has 80% damage resist. well that hit is going to land for 200 with 0 arpen. now with 60% arpen. that hit will land for 750. that is a massive difference when you start counting the number of times aura of courage and burning guidance hit.
to get the same amount of damage with power you'd need 275% dmg increase. which is a boatload of power.
and as has been said. i heal just fine. bigger heals isnt going to help anyone. as i already way overheal everything but 1shots. sure once arpen has been capped more power is fine. or more recovery for ap gain (100% uptime on sheild of faith is better than bigger heals).
so as long as i am already overhealing. and can keep up shield of faith when needed. what else is there to do buy go for more damage. and since bg and aura of courage will never crit and are unaffected by power and accounted for 72.8% of my damage according to my last etos parse the best way to make those effective is to have them land as close to full power as possible. which means arpen. (death slaad was another 11.3%). i dealt 62M damage in that run and nearly beat the gwf with no wipes. and i dont have prism. even if we take burning guidance out of the equation. aura of courage is now 40% of my damage. and is unaffected by power and crit.
you would think that more power to the party is automatically a good thing. but it would depend on the party. on a barely past ilvl required group i can often lead the party in damage.. giving a extra 1.5k ( how much extra power i'd pass with aura's gifts replacing arpen with power) to the group wont make up for the loss of my damage ( only gwf's routinely beat me at min requirements). an extra 6k recovery might make up for it because that would easily make me perma shield of faith. on a 3k+ ilvl group. what does it matter. we're easily clearing the content. my heals are more than sufficient. noone is getting 1shotted. and an extra 1.5kpower ( 6k power change) isnt making a huge difference to a 20k power/crit gwf.
you also have to look at what happens when you go to grind your dailies. arpen means much faster killing for dailies than 6k more power would.
is it starting to make sense now?
so i'll stick with my 6k arpen/6kish recovery the rest in power suggestions.
Comments
Weapon... Faytouched is good for pve or pvp, but if everyone's running that you don't get the buff from it... I also like holy avenger or terror
as for sets you wont get much from any of them. i got a 6% gain from lostmauth. and a 1% gain from imperial dragon. but im built around recovery for bubble/encounter spam and dont parse my dailies.
the tank sets (selardine/lathander) arent really useful if you build to permabubble. i'll leave those for the GF's amd bulwark builds)
personally i like the imperial dragon neck( valindras is nice too), the greater plated belt of con ( tons of hp, con for more hp, arpen and defense) , and recovery/ap on my artis. for a tanking set. and i use silveries and cruels for the offensive slots, all my gear also has recovery on it. 35 second refresh on circle of power, tab puts it at 13.
i have a second set of gear ( lostmauth, arpen and power and a couple of elven pieces with "dmg stats") i wear for doing dailies as my recovery gear means i have the dps of a wet kitten. and i dont need all that recovery to kill solo . firing off a divine judgement every 14 seconds is fun and all but if it doesnt hit hard what does it matter.
arpen doesnt work that way. 60% is the cap for personal pve armor penetration, but mobs still have armor that can be reduced. which is why even with 60% arpen dps, a debuff cleric improves a groups dps considerably. the same way that even with 80% as the hard cap for damage resistance shield of faith will reduce damage further. so a 60% arpen dps against a boss mob debuffed with perf+ terror chant will see a 16% dps boost.
so my choice of weapon chants doesnt change. . terror is the best utility chant since it boosts the groups dps. and debuffs the mobs dmg output. if you can get pure+ terror & add shield of faith you're looking at mobs hiting for 30% of their normal damage before player dr gets calced. which makes most boss fights a piece of cake. i still run pfire on my dev op, mostly because i cant afford a perf+ terror chant and bang per buck pfire is pretty darn good.
soulforged is my choice for pve armor. since i pull a ton of agro with bg+heals.
on my dev op my chants/artis tend to go more towards power/arpen than recovery but im slowly tweaking it to keep sheild up more. recovery is less important since while dungeoning i only have burning light to worry about. so im trying to find my balance between power and recovery. since so much of my damage can not possibly crit ( bg/aura of courage) i pretty much ignore it and i rarely find i cant heal enough that i'd need to crit those.
Offense slots:
I would recommend dark enchants if armour penetration isn't capped. Radiants or silveries otherwise, never azures.If you get silveries, you need to remember that recovery has diminishing returns, which is the reason why 200 recovery = 1% instead of 400 recovery. Most of your damage as devotion paladin comes from burning guidance, which can never crit and so azures are quite honestly wasted there.
Defense:
Azures or Radiants. Defense has the opposite of diminishing returns, the more you invest in it, the more you will want to invest in it, but you got to remember it caps at 80%. With the exception of tanks and devotion paladin, it is better to invest in hp then in defense, but because of how high your defense is already, it might be better to invest in defense then HP. I haven't graphed the curves though to check this, so I mayhave to get back to you on this later.
Weapon enchant:
Feytouched boosts the damage dealt by burning guidance, making it a good choice. The other debuff enchantments do not. Holy Avenger is also a good choice because its heal can proc burning guidance.
If you want an in depth explanation, you can look over my guide.
and since bg is a huge percentage of damage, turtleling up behind sanctuary (30% dr) when needed is often a net dps gain.
its one of the reasons im looking at dumping aura's gifts and moving to holy resurgence, and investing in some +stam
artis/reinforces. more heals, more dr, more dmg all at the same time. and that will also help boost ap gain through light touched.
On my Devotion OP, I run Radiants (R10) in every defensive slot. I wanted to maximize Aura of Courage, as - when it's accompanied by the proper buffs/debuffs - is a massive DPS-boost to the entire party, along with making yourself more survivable.
When it comes to offensive slots, I've been looking for as much Power and Recovery I could get, so the Cruel Enchantment (Power and Recovery) became an obvious, albeit a slightly more costly, choice. The reason for boosting Power is that I took the feat Aura Gifts, which shares 25% of your Power with teammates. Currently working my way up to about 20.000 power. Recovery is purely for the AP-gain and some cooldown reductions, which, granted, with a Justice build aren't much of an issue anyway, but a nice back-up. A lot of my slots still hold Dark Enchantments, though, as I consider 60% ArP a must. They're slowly being phased-out, though.
Armor wise, I went with a Negation. I hardly ever have to hit the 'Call for help'-button, because Devotion OP's are tanky as hell, especially with Shield of Faith up. At a good amount of AP-gain, you'll get close to running Heroism as well as Shield of Faith, which just makes you soak up damage. You'll comfortably tank any T1, and I've tanked Temple of the Spider and Gray Wolf Den as well, although GWD is slightly more difficult. Without ever going down, I felt Soulforged was a wasted slot, and I was better served with the extra Damage Reduction from Negation. It's only a Greater right now, but come the Tradebar Store changes, I'll have it Transcendant in no time. Honestly hoping, though, that Barkshield gets another look from the Devs, as that would be more interesting for someone not often tanking.
For the weapon enchant, I went with a Transcendant Holy Avenger. It adds Damage Reduction, a decent heal - which, as @thefabricant pointed out, does proc Burning Guidance - and generally just looks nice. Some people might complain about it's uptime (33% in longer fights) but during dungeon clearing it's not much of an issue, as the cooldown usually resets when moving from one group of mobs to the other.
However, I've now set my sights on a Terror enchant. I feel completely comfortable tanking without Holy Avenger up, the Burning Guidance buff isn't tremendous and a Terror would - in my opinion - provide more for the party and myself. Someone earlier mentioned Plague Fire as the cheaper option, but I would advise against that one. A Devotion OP doesn't have the tools to keep the three stacks up reliably. The issue is that Weapon Enchants don't interact with something like Burning Light, which would be an *excellent* tool to apply it, but alas. When it comes to applying Terror: a simple Radiant Strike will have you set.
A thing to keep in mind, too, when shopping for Weapon Enchantments is if said Enchantment is often already in the party. Do often run with the same group of people? If one of them already runs Terror or Plague Fire, a second one won't do much good. This is also my issue with Feytouched. I see it way to often to consider running it. Terror is pretty prevalent, too, but I still join a lot of parties where it's just not there. Missed buff/debuff potential right there.
Lastly, item sets: Don't go out of your way to collect a full set. It's not needed. Look for a belt which matches what you need. Need more HP? Con. Belt is just fine. Need AP gain on your cloak? Find one which has the stats you need most. I've done some fooling around with the NW:Unblogged equipment tool, and am now farming for the complete Black Ice set. I wanted the Belt and the Artifact anyway, because the Belt has Constitution and Charisma, which boosts both HP for Aura of Courage and my AP-gain through Charisma, and the Artifact has Recovery and Armor Penetration, both of which I still wanted more of. I then went full HAMSTER and decided to grind out the Cloak, too. It has nothing over say a Lostmauth cloak - they're identical - but I'm a sucker for sets. Besides, there's not many people out there crazy enough to grind out that set - 500k Refined Black Ice for the Belt and Cloak - and I like to feel special.
ok lets say you would hit for 1000. and a mob has 80% damage resist. well that hit is going to land for 200 with 0 arpen.
now with 60% arpen. that hit will land for 750. that is a massive difference when you start counting the number of times aura of courage and burning guidance hit.
to get the same amount of damage with power you'd need 275% dmg increase. which is a boatload of power.
and as has been said. i heal just fine. bigger heals isnt going to help anyone. as i already way overheal everything but 1shots.
sure once arpen has been capped more power is fine. or more recovery for ap gain (100% uptime on sheild of faith is better than bigger heals).
so as long as i am already overhealing. and can keep up shield of faith when needed. what else is there to do buy go for more damage. and since bg and aura of courage will never crit and are unaffected by power and accounted for 72.8% of my damage according to my last etos parse the best way to make those effective is to have them land as close to full power as possible. which means arpen. (death slaad was another 11.3%). i dealt 62M damage in that run and nearly beat the gwf with no wipes. and i dont have prism.
even if we take burning guidance out of the equation. aura of courage is now 40% of my damage. and is unaffected by power and crit.
you would think that more power to the party is automatically a good thing. but it would depend on the party. on a barely past ilvl required group i can often lead the party in damage.. giving a extra 1.5k ( how much extra power i'd pass with aura's gifts replacing arpen with power) to the group wont make up for the loss of my damage ( only gwf's routinely beat me at min requirements). an extra 6k recovery might make up for it because that would easily make me perma shield of faith. on a 3k+ ilvl group. what does it matter. we're easily clearing the content. my heals are more than sufficient. noone is getting 1shotted. and an extra 1.5kpower ( 6k power change) isnt making a huge difference to a 20k power/crit gwf.
you also have to look at what happens when you go to grind your dailies. arpen means much faster killing for dailies than 6k more power would.
is it starting to make sense now?
so i'll stick with my 6k arpen/6kish recovery the rest in power suggestions.