[Feedback] Want to fix the horrendous Lag? The solution is pretty simple....

ayroux · October 2015

Its no secret the lag is just out of control. I have very good internet and have played in multiple locations. When I do an internet test, I average <30ping.

Now when I log into Neverwinter however I will average between 120-150 ping (Used to be <80 ping around mod 1-2 BTW). And in places like domination ill average over 200 ping and in SH PVP ill average over 300 ping.

Why?

There are too many things trying to interact with eachother and the servers just cant handle it. Well, rather than just say "you guys need to invest in better hardware" there is a much easier solution - ICDs.

I really dont think it would take all that long to re-program reactive abilities to include ICDs. Just ONE example of this would be the "Fey Thistle" boon. Each time you deflect you deal back damage. Why not beef up this # a hair to say 4k and then add an ICD on it to 1 second. Small changes like this would actually not make MUCH difference in real play but would save the servers a TON of stress.

Another example would be Oathbound Paladin auras. Have you ever taken a SW and had them attack an OP with his auras up? talk about MASSIVE lag.... Why? Because the SW has SO many DoTs that hit SO many times per second... Now it looks cool but it creates MASSIVE stress on the hardware and then you combine that with something like Knights Valor or a Paladins auras who react off things (Aura of Vengeance) where each time you are stuck it "strikes back" with weapon damage?

Or another example would be the Renegake Evoker passive: each time you are struck with a crit it hits them back.... Add a friking ICD to it! I have seen TRs who use Duelist Flurry on a target and KILL themselves from a Renegake Evoker plus the Sharandar boon...

Its just too much guys... Its too many interactions that just bog down the servers.

Want to look at another culprit? SW's capstone: Creeping Death. Its crazy...

Now adding ICDs to things NEEDS to be compensated with some additional adjustments to damage (probably buffs). But doing this will create less lag and I would almost GUARANTEE create more balance between classes - or minimally make it easier TO balance in the future... You never know when you create an item that will be WACK overpowered just based on the sheernumber of interactions. Two examples that we can point to are:

1) GFs using glyphs in module 4 was ONLY an issue because of all the stupid interactions going on... You guys provided an ICD and it solved the issue.
2) Emblem - again was CRAZY at healing because of the sheer # of times hit. Imagine how much WORSE it would be today?! What happened? An ICD was implemented and nerfed it TOO hard... But it could have been buffed to compensate and would have been fine...

Again, the issue is just too many interactions between powers/feats/pets/boons etc. Its too much for the servers. We either need better servers or you need to address the problem from the other side of the fence - make everything cause less strain on the servers.

Id be happy to compile a list of the top 10-20 things if you would like that cause these issues. Heck I bet the community would be MORE than happy to list them here!

Unknown · October 2015

This content has been removed.

ayroux · October 2015

defiantone99 said:
How about the bright glow from all the Trans enchants? Seems the more BIS players in an instance, the more lag I get. The outrageous aura glow is totally unnecessary.

I dont think thats causing much issue. Thats more of a graphics card issue on your end. I do dislike how bright and visible the enchants are. I would prefer the look of a normal or greater enchant (subtle but noticeable).

Like I said, the latency USED to not be that bad. I remember playing back in mod 0 days with no issues at ALL. Its ALL the stuff they keep adding, companions, feats, boons, powers that attack SO many times per second, react to those attacks and cause massive massive lag issues.

Like I said, why was GF + overloads + Knights Valor an issue in mod 4? Because each time a teammate was struck, it bounced to the GF which then bounced back a damage hit from a glyph and just melted people in seconds. (

https://youtu.be/vOBvEhz8cKQ?t=29)

Its actually a pretty simple solution that may not be "fun" to incorporate an ICD onto several abilities but its what is really best for the game as a whole. Either that or the company needs to invest in much better servers....

banaanc · October 2015

i think theres such a mess with all that stuff that the person tasked with fixing it would rather commit suicide.

ayroux · October 2015

banaanc said:
i think theres such a mess with all that stuff that the person tasked with fixing it would rather commit suicide.

Is it really that bad? Think about it.... If the community came up with the say "top 20 things" that cause lag... would it really be THAT hard to go into the Renegade Evoker (as an example) and add a line in the code that says this can only proc once per second?

I dont think it would be hard at all... Then once the dust settles on the lag issues that would be improved DRASTICALLY from doing this... They can then take a look at rebalancing those "20 things" that they adjusted. I bet some of them dont even need a rebalance.

I mean I could list off 10 things right now that would be a massive decrease in lag and improvement for the game and MAYBE even a step towards some balance too! But Id rather not since I have no idea if the DEVs will even see this or care..

banaanc · October 2015

i think there are 20+ things in this category on my paladin alone, they made a really huge mess with all these random procs that has piled up on itself since launch, first i really doubt they would care about fixing that, and 2nd im too afraid to think of what they will break while trying to fix it

its kind of like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4JRLS58nyQ

ayroux · October 2015

banaanc said:
i think there are 20+ things in this category on my paladin alone, they made a really huge mess with all these random procs that has piled up on itself since launch, first i really doubt they would care about fixing that, and 2nd im too afraid to think of what they will break while trying to fix it

Yup, but the issue will only get worse as they will continue to add more and more things... More classes, more boons, more abilities etc.. So they should look into this now, look at fixing it, and then potentially moving forward they can make adjustments with these things in mind.

I ado agree, they will probably break things, but the current game is already broken in several areas AND its laggy. I can manage breaking things as we can always finds ways to compensate, but its the lag that kills me...

goldmoon · October 2015

Server cannot handle, so lets nerf players?

banaanc · October 2015

goldmoon#5670 said:
Server cannot handle, so lets nerf players?

its not only server issue, thats one of things that can cause massive performance/lag(on slower connections) issues for many ppl

pricetagcloud · October 2015

goldmoon#5670 said:
Server cannot handle, so lets nerf players?

So, by your logic, you'd rather have massive lag which could result in a loss of dps and utility and cause disconnects, rather than have good DPS and a stable connection?

OP is right. Buff things that proc, but on the flip-side make all those things have ICDs. The only problem I would see is that the ones who could be affected the most are the ranged classes that have a lot of DoT abilities if they don't take care of the damage aspect of it.

matthiasthehun76 · October 2015

banaanc said:
i think there are 20+ things in this category on my paladin alone, they made a really huge mess with all these random procs that has piled up on itself since launch, first i really doubt they would care about fixing that, and 2nd im too afraid to think of what they will break while trying to fix it

its kind of like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4JRLS58nyQ

Man you made my day, i was so mad, now you helped to ease the pain, thank mate:)

Unknown · October 2015

This content has been removed.

ogarious · October 2015

banaanc said:
i think there are 20+ things in this category on my paladin alone, they made a really huge mess with all these random procs that has piled up on itself since launch, first i really doubt they would care about fixing that, and 2nd im too afraid to think of what they will break while trying to fix it

its kind of like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4JRLS58nyQ

That video is too cute. And that's exactly how things are being done at Cryptic right now.

ogarious · October 2015

Sorry, there are many other MMO's with much much more going on then what goes on here in Neverwinter and they don't have these problems. And if there are problems with the game not being able to handle the workload, then they either need to get some better programmers, or better hardware. Neverwinter should not have any issues running the content that is in game right now.

I can link you to dozens of youtube videos of other MMO's that have raids and other content where the amount of processor power needed to run everything would dwarf what Neverwinter handles 10fold.

banaanc · October 2015

ogarious said:
Sorry, there are many other MMO's with much much more going on then what goes on here in Neverwinter and they don't have these problems. And if there are problems with the game not being able to handle the workload, then they either need to get some better programmers, or better hardware. Neverwinter should not have any issues running the content that is in game right now.

I can link you to dozens of youtube videos of other MMO's that have raids and other content where the amount of processor power needed to run everything would dwarf what Neverwinter handles 10fold.

and i could find a ton of badly optimized software that runs like trash on high end hardware

ogarious · October 2015

banaanc said:

ogarious said:
Sorry, there are many other MMO's with much much more going on then what goes on here in Neverwinter and they don't have these problems. And if there are problems with the game not being able to handle the workload, then they either need to get some better programmers, or better hardware. Neverwinter should not have any issues running the content that is in game right now.

I can link you to dozens of youtube videos of other MMO's that have raids and other content where the amount of processor power needed to run everything would dwarf what Neverwinter handles 10fold.
and i could find a ton of badly optimized software that runs like trash on high end hardware

Truth is, you already have. Your playing it.

torontodave · October 2015

Played tiamat today.

At least(?) 6 months after Tiamat launch

Lag still makes her unbeatable if anyone is using astral/prism/burning guidance/WHATEVER IT IS

Add an ICD to whatever breaks Tiamat.

You shouldn't need us to demand this HAMSTER. =/

banaanc · October 2015

ogarious said:

banaanc said:

ogarious said:
Sorry, there are many other MMO's with much much more going on then what goes on here in Neverwinter and they don't have these problems. And if there are problems with the game not being able to handle the workload, then they either need to get some better programmers, or better hardware. Neverwinter should not have any issues running the content that is in game right now.

I can link you to dozens of youtube videos of other MMO's that have raids and other content where the amount of processor power needed to run everything would dwarf what Neverwinter handles 10fold.
and i could find a ton of badly optimized software that runs like trash on high end hardware
Truth is, you already have. Your playing it.

exactly, and abilities procing 2427657 times every sec and affecting other abilities that proc from each of those procs is one of the signs of bad design/optimization, so anything that can help to fix this mess is welcome, though i am afraid of what they WOULD fk up in the process(refer to the video). atm i cant think of any more badly optimized game

rapo973 · October 2015

According to the moderator of the NW italian forum, the lag is not due to PWE, it's your ISP's fault. >:)

http://www.arcgames.com/it/forums/nwit#/discussion/49233/ce-ancora-vita-in-questo-forum
" La questione lag è stata chiusa da quando la PWE si è accertata che il problema non derivava dal loro server, per questo vi dico di rivolgervi al vostro ISP. "

->
"The lag problem has been closed since the PWE has made sure that the problem is not generated by their servers, so I tell you to contact your ISP."

Why are you complaning?

>:)

PS: I understand better why the players are leaving the game....

ayroux · October 2015

rapo973 said:
According to the moderator of the NW italian forum, the lag is not due to PWE, it's your ISP's fault. >:)
http://www.arcgames.com/it/forums/nwit#/discussion/49233/ce-ancora-vita-in-questo-forum
" La questione lag è stata chiusa da quando la PWE si è accertata che il problema non derivava dal loro server, per questo vi dico di rivolgervi al vostro ISP. "

->
"The lag problem has been closed since the PWE has made sure that the problem is not generated by their servers, so I tell you to contact your ISP."

Why are you complaning? >:)

PS: I understand better why the players are leaving the game....

ROFL!!!

Its funny because I play at home and at work - using 2 different ISPs about 45 miles apart (yes I commute 1hr+ each way) and yet still seems VERY odd that everytime I see a SW attack a paladin all the sudden my ping shoots from 120 to 400.... Must be my ISP though.... RIIIIIIGHT.....

urabask · October 2015

rapo973 said:
According to the moderator of the NW italian forum, the lag is not due to PWE, it's your ISP's fault. >:)
http://www.arcgames.com/it/forums/nwit#/discussion/49233/ce-ancora-vita-in-questo-forum
" La questione lag è stata chiusa da quando la PWE si è accertata che il problema non derivava dal loro server, per questo vi dico di rivolgervi al vostro ISP. "

->
"The lag problem has been closed since the PWE has made sure that the problem is not generated by their servers, so I tell you to contact your ISP."

Why are you complaning? >:)

PS: I understand better why the players are leaving the game....

In WoD I have paladins tell me that I need a better CPU like a 5930k. Blows my mind that people think that you need to spend $600 on a processor to play a F2P mmo.

banaanc · October 2015

urabask said:

rapo973 said:
According to the moderator of the NW italian forum, the lag is not due to PWE, it's your ISP's fault. >:)
http://www.arcgames.com/it/forums/nwit#/discussion/49233/ce-ancora-vita-in-questo-forum
" La questione lag è stata chiusa da quando la PWE si è accertata che il problema non derivava dal loro server, per questo vi dico di rivolgervi al vostro ISP. "

->
"The lag problem has been closed since the PWE has made sure that the problem is not generated by their servers, so I tell you to contact your ISP."

Why are you complaning? >:)

PS: I understand better why the players are leaving the game....
In WoD I have paladins tell me that I need a better CPU like a 5930k. Blows my mind that people think that you need to spend $600 on a processor to play a F2P mmo.

for this you would probably need 6th gen i7, 32gb of ram and titan gpu to run smooth

urabask · October 2015

banaanc said:

urabask said:

rapo973 said:
According to the moderator of the NW italian forum, the lag is not due to PWE, it's your ISP's fault. >:)
http://www.arcgames.com/it/forums/nwit#/discussion/49233/ce-ancora-vita-in-questo-forum
" La questione lag è stata chiusa da quando la PWE si è accertata che il problema non derivava dal loro server, per questo vi dico di rivolgervi al vostro ISP. "

->
"The lag problem has been closed since the PWE has made sure that the problem is not generated by their servers, so I tell you to contact your ISP."

Why are you complaning? >:)

PS: I understand better why the players are leaving the game....
In WoD I have paladins tell me that I need a better CPU like a 5930k. Blows my mind that people think that you need to spend $600 on a processor to play a F2P mmo.
for this you would probably need 6th gen i7, 32gb of ram and titan gpu to run smooth

5930k is an enthusiast CPU from last gen so it's a hex-core CPU that performs on par with anything from this gen but has some features that don't make it onto their mainstream platforms. Kind of funny that it takes that kind of hardware to run it well when Cryptic should be targeting laptops as their recommended spec.

ayroux · October 2015

urabask said:

banaanc said:

urabask said:

rapo973 said:
According to the moderator of the NW italian forum, the lag is not due to PWE, it's your ISP's fault. >:)
http://www.arcgames.com/it/forums/nwit#/discussion/49233/ce-ancora-vita-in-questo-forum
" La questione lag è stata chiusa da quando la PWE si è accertata che il problema non derivava dal loro server, per questo vi dico di rivolgervi al vostro ISP. "

->
"The lag problem has been closed since the PWE has made sure that the problem is not generated by their servers, so I tell you to contact your ISP."

Why are you complaning? >:)

PS: I understand better why the players are leaving the game....
In WoD I have paladins tell me that I need a better CPU like a 5930k. Blows my mind that people think that you need to spend $600 on a processor to play a F2P mmo.
for this you would probably need 6th gen i7, 32gb of ram and titan gpu to run smooth
5930k is an enthusiast CPU from last gen so it's a hex-core CPU that performs on par with anything from this gen but has some features that don't make it onto their mainstream platforms. Kind of funny that it takes that kind of hardware to run it well when Cryptic should be targeting laptops as their recommended spec.

You really dont need amazing hardware, I play on a 4 year old custom build machine I made for $500 and I play NEARLY maxed graphics.

The issue with the game isnt a hardware on OUR end issue it wont matter what YOUR specs are because its their servers that cant handle it. We have guys in our guild with ridiculous rigs and their machines bog down equally when things like auras mix with Creeping Death. Its not a PC issue its a server issue. Its sending too many packets all at once.

So the "bottle neck" isnt your rig, its the servers. If they upgraded the servers then ya it would be your rig but they also just need to fix a few coding areas and it would fix the game..

drkbodhi · October 2015

I think that the work they will be performing tomorrow is possibly transferring to different servers. IF that is the case, it would be a game changer.

I base this on the last game I played who did a server transfer... it took almost an entire day to finish. I am also basing this belief on the fact that they are doing this for bunch of games.

urabask · October 2015

ayroux said:

urabask said:

banaanc said:

urabask said:

rapo973 said:
According to the moderator of the NW italian forum, the lag is not due to PWE, it's your ISP's fault. >:)
http://www.arcgames.com/it/forums/nwit#/discussion/49233/ce-ancora-vita-in-questo-forum
" La questione lag è stata chiusa da quando la PWE si è accertata che il problema non derivava dal loro server, per questo vi dico di rivolgervi al vostro ISP. "

->
"The lag problem has been closed since the PWE has made sure that the problem is not generated by their servers, so I tell you to contact your ISP."

Why are you complaning? >:)

PS: I understand better why the players are leaving the game....
In WoD I have paladins tell me that I need a better CPU like a 5930k. Blows my mind that people think that you need to spend $600 on a processor to play a F2P mmo.
for this you would probably need 6th gen i7, 32gb of ram and titan gpu to run smooth
5930k is an enthusiast CPU from last gen so it's a hex-core CPU that performs on par with anything from this gen but has some features that don't make it onto their mainstream platforms. Kind of funny that it takes that kind of hardware to run it well when Cryptic should be targeting laptops as their recommended spec.

You really dont need amazing hardware, I play on a 4 year old custom build machine I made for $500 and I play NEARLY maxed graphics.

The issue with the game isnt a hardware on OUR end issue it wont matter what YOUR specs are because its their servers that cant handle it. We have guys in our guild with ridiculous rigs and their machines bog down equally when things like auras mix with Creeping Death. Its not a PC issue its a server issue. Its sending too many packets all at once.

So the "bottle neck" isnt your rig, its the servers. If they upgraded the servers then ya it would be your rig but they also just need to fix a few coding areas and it would fix the game..

Well, no. Part of it is the optimization on the client side too. Having poor latency because the servers are stressed doesn't make you drop frames.

ayroux · October 2015

urabask said:

ayroux said:

urabask said:

banaanc said:

urabask said:

rapo973 said:
According to the moderator of the NW italian forum, the lag is not due to PWE, it's your ISP's fault. >:)
http://www.arcgames.com/it/forums/nwit#/discussion/49233/ce-ancora-vita-in-questo-forum
" La questione lag è stata chiusa da quando la PWE si è accertata che il problema non derivava dal loro server, per questo vi dico di rivolgervi al vostro ISP. "

->
"The lag problem has been closed since the PWE has made sure that the problem is not generated by their servers, so I tell you to contact your ISP."

Why are you complaning? >:)

PS: I understand better why the players are leaving the game....
In WoD I have paladins tell me that I need a better CPU like a 5930k. Blows my mind that people think that you need to spend $600 on a processor to play a F2P mmo.
for this you would probably need 6th gen i7, 32gb of ram and titan gpu to run smooth
5930k is an enthusiast CPU from last gen so it's a hex-core CPU that performs on par with anything from this gen but has some features that don't make it onto their mainstream platforms. Kind of funny that it takes that kind of hardware to run it well when Cryptic should be targeting laptops as their recommended spec.

You really dont need amazing hardware, I play on a 4 year old custom build machine I made for $500 and I play NEARLY maxed graphics.

The issue with the game isnt a hardware on OUR end issue it wont matter what YOUR specs are because its their servers that cant handle it. We have guys in our guild with ridiculous rigs and their machines bog down equally when things like auras mix with Creeping Death. Its not a PC issue its a server issue. Its sending too many packets all at once.

So the "bottle neck" isnt your rig, its the servers. If they upgraded the servers then ya it would be your rig but they also just need to fix a few coding areas and it would fix the game..
Well, no. Part of it is the optimization on the client side too. Having poor latency because the servers are stressed doesn't make you drop frames.

Sorry must have misread, this thread is about latency not frames. Thought thats what we were talking about. I agree though framerate issues can be a problem but I have a middle of the road PC and run on about 75% of max settings (I pick a few things to turn down) and dont get framerate drop. I DO get horrendous lag though when stuff happens like that on the servers...

urabask · October 2015

ayroux said:

urabask said:

ayroux said:

urabask said:

banaanc said:

urabask said:

rapo973 said:
According to the moderator of the NW italian forum, the lag is not due to PWE, it's your ISP's fault. >:)
http://www.arcgames.com/it/forums/nwit#/discussion/49233/ce-ancora-vita-in-questo-forum
" La questione lag è stata chiusa da quando la PWE si è accertata che il problema non derivava dal loro server, per questo vi dico di rivolgervi al vostro ISP. "

->
"The lag problem has been closed since the PWE has made sure that the problem is not generated by their servers, so I tell you to contact your ISP."

Why are you complaning? >:)

PS: I understand better why the players are leaving the game....
In WoD I have paladins tell me that I need a better CPU like a 5930k. Blows my mind that people think that you need to spend $600 on a processor to play a F2P mmo.
for this you would probably need 6th gen i7, 32gb of ram and titan gpu to run smooth
5930k is an enthusiast CPU from last gen so it's a hex-core CPU that performs on par with anything from this gen but has some features that don't make it onto their mainstream platforms. Kind of funny that it takes that kind of hardware to run it well when Cryptic should be targeting laptops as their recommended spec.

You really dont need amazing hardware, I play on a 4 year old custom build machine I made for $500 and I play NEARLY maxed graphics.

The issue with the game isnt a hardware on OUR end issue it wont matter what YOUR specs are because its their servers that cant handle it. We have guys in our guild with ridiculous rigs and their machines bog down equally when things like auras mix with Creeping Death. Its not a PC issue its a server issue. Its sending too many packets all at once.

So the "bottle neck" isnt your rig, its the servers. If they upgraded the servers then ya it would be your rig but they also just need to fix a few coding areas and it would fix the game..
Well, no. Part of it is the optimization on the client side too. Having poor latency because the servers are stressed doesn't make you drop frames.
Sorry must have misread, this thread is about latency not frames. Thought thats what we were talking about. I agree though framerate issues can be a problem but I have a middle of the road PC and run on about 75% of max settings (I pick a few things to turn down) and dont get framerate drop. I DO get horrendous lag though when stuff happens like that on the servers...

They're not really mutually exclusive though. When prism procs 30,000 times in a minute and goes through the usual loop it doesn't stress just the servers. If you're monitoring your FPS you will notice frame drops.

ayroux · October 2015

urabask said:

ayroux said:

urabask said:

ayroux said:

urabask said:

banaanc said:

urabask said:

rapo973 said:
According to the moderator of the NW italian forum, the lag is not due to PWE, it's your ISP's fault. >:)
http://www.arcgames.com/it/forums/nwit#/discussion/49233/ce-ancora-vita-in-questo-forum
" La questione lag è stata chiusa da quando la PWE si è accertata che il problema non derivava dal loro server, per questo vi dico di rivolgervi al vostro ISP. "

->
"The lag problem has been closed since the PWE has made sure that the problem is not generated by their servers, so I tell you to contact your ISP."

Why are you complaning? >:)

PS: I understand better why the players are leaving the game....
In WoD I have paladins tell me that I need a better CPU like a 5930k. Blows my mind that people think that you need to spend $600 on a processor to play a F2P mmo.
for this you would probably need 6th gen i7, 32gb of ram and titan gpu to run smooth
5930k is an enthusiast CPU from last gen so it's a hex-core CPU that performs on par with anything from this gen but has some features that don't make it onto their mainstream platforms. Kind of funny that it takes that kind of hardware to run it well when Cryptic should be targeting laptops as their recommended spec.

You really dont need amazing hardware, I play on a 4 year old custom build machine I made for $500 and I play NEARLY maxed graphics.

The issue with the game isnt a hardware on OUR end issue it wont matter what YOUR specs are because its their servers that cant handle it. We have guys in our guild with ridiculous rigs and their machines bog down equally when things like auras mix with Creeping Death. Its not a PC issue its a server issue. Its sending too many packets all at once.

So the "bottle neck" isnt your rig, its the servers. If they upgraded the servers then ya it would be your rig but they also just need to fix a few coding areas and it would fix the game..
Well, no. Part of it is the optimization on the client side too. Having poor latency because the servers are stressed doesn't make you drop frames.
Sorry must have misread, this thread is about latency not frames. Thought thats what we were talking about. I agree though framerate issues can be a problem but I have a middle of the road PC and run on about 75% of max settings (I pick a few things to turn down) and dont get framerate drop. I DO get horrendous lag though when stuff happens like that on the servers...
They're not really mutually exclusive though. When prism procs 30,000 times in a minute and goes through the usual loop it doesn't stress just the servers. If you're monitoring your FPS you will notice frame drops.

Well I may not have noticed it yet because it is masked by the latency with the stress on servers.

So if it ever does get fixed, who knows... But thats the point is nothing should be hitting 30k times a minute....

zibadawa · October 2015

ayroux said:
add a line in the code that says this can only proc once per second?

I dont think it would be hard at all...

You're saying this to the company whose developers find it too difficult to update a single instance of the number "60" to "70" in the Epic Artifact Quest. You're asking for miracles.

[Feedback] Want to fix the horrendous Lag? The solution is pretty simple....

Comments