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Wish about tanky tanks :)
dolrey
Member Posts: 741 Arc User
Hello everyone 
And sorry for my english
I would like to express the opinion of player who plays just for tanky guardian-fighter in the branch of protector about two years about tanking of thise game class.
Highlights:
1) Guardian-fighter protector can give good defence to his team (but much worse than Paladin).
2) In PvE he can deal threat very well.
3) Guardian-fighter protector has some defense but his defence is still poor according to the fact that he must be absolutely tanky to as best as possible defend his team.
-COMPLETED-4) In a lot of other mmorpgs tank in PvE besides healing has needs in defence of just one character (his self defence or defence of healer). But in Neverwinter Online in PvE to survive besides healing guardian-fighter in one time must block absolutely all foe's hits using all self defense that he has and use all defence that healer gives to him. Usually (in a lot of other mmorpgs) tank has enough self defence and from healer needs just healing. Could you do that in Neverwinter Online: get to the guardian-fighter protector enough self-defense and make him needy in just to be healed.
5) The most part of guardian-fighter's self healing is based on his damage. This is unfair to the tanky guardian-fighter because he is designed to protect and to deal threat but not to deal enough damage to heal himself. That's why I am asking for intoducing some changes in guardian-fighter's self healing that should not be based on his damage.
6)Has no abilities to out from CC (very important for tanks).
So, let's go to concrete proposals about improving only tanky guardian-fighter's tanking.
1)Last feat in the branch of Protector [Iron guard].
*With every melee hit on an enemy, you reduce it's damage by 5%. Maximum 20% damage reduction.*
This skill very useful for self defence and for team's protection. But to activate it guardian fighter must hit the foe. Also guardian-fighter protector usually constantly uses shield block (to survive in battle as long as possible to give protection to his team) and strikes against enemy makes the guardian-fighter open to enemy attacks that can interrupt [Knight's valour] from his back. Also in real battle range DD usually tries to stay on a high distance from the battle thats why guardian fighter protector staying in center of battle can't activate [Iron guard] and on them. There were two reasons why GF need to use passive skill [Guarded assault]. Foes dealing damage to guardian-fighter or to teammates (who is under [Knight's valour] of guardian-fighter) will be striked back by [Guarded assault] and will be debuffed by [Iron guard]. But from the guardian-fighter is required to use the [Guarded assault] instead of the other more defensive ability.
That's why I am asking for changes in activation of guardian-fighter feat [Iron guard]. Could you make to this feat should be activated not only with every melee hit on the foe but and with every foe's hit on the guardian fighter.
2) A new passive skill of guardian-fighter [Desperate survival]
*Increase your deflection chance by 1/2/3%. When your Hit Points are below 30% your Stamina regenerates 30% faster.*
This passive skill is unusable because as it was already wrote one passive slot is occupied by [Guarded assault] (to use [Iron guard]) and the other passive slot is occupied by [Shield talent] (to have enough stamina for blocking well because guardian fighter now has no defence without blocking). So, [Desperate survival] is a high level passive skill, but it is worse than [Shield talent] because it gives stamina regeneration just when guardian fighter has less then 45% health (in PvE now it is one hit for a lot of mobs even thru shield block, in PvP I can't wait for 45% health because my [Knight's valour] would be interrupted by CC effects without stamina boost). I mean that idea about having some bonuses after taking some damage in battle (when health will be low) is not effective on practise. Thats why I am asking for improving this passive skill in the folowing way: could you delete threshold of HP for stamina regeneration bonus to this bonus be active all over the time while this passive skill is used.
3) Skill of guardian fighter [Iron warrior]
*You gain temporary Hit Points based on your missing Hit Points, and you Stamina regeneration is increased by 50%. In addition, all your attacks generate 200% more threat while this buff is active. Also you gain +30% damage resistance while this buff is active.*
This self buff was tasty for tanky guardian fighters when they had health regeneration in module 5. But now in spite of 30% resistance bonus using this skill is dangerous because now while guardian fighter cast this skill he takes much more damage than benefit that this skill can get. Thats why I am asking for a bit changes of this skill: Could you change calculation of Temporary Hit Points from "based from missing health" to "near 30-40% of guardian-fighter's maximum health" (of course this healing should be twice less effective in PvP).
-ADDED-It will be great if this skill will clean all CC effects and get immunity to new ones for 1-2 seconds. Or if there is no CC effects on GF at the moment it will be great if [Iron Warrior] will absorb one future CC effect (and after absorbtion get immunity to CC for 1-2 seconds).
4) Daily skill [Fighter's recovery]
*You steady yourself and gain vigor for the fight to come by temporarily healing for a large portion of the damage you deal.*
Healing of this skill is based on guardian-fighter's damage. But as it is already wrote tanky guardian-fighter is designed to protect and to deal threat but not to deal enough damage to heal himself. Thats why I am asking for following addition to this skill: could you add healing near 40-50% of guardian-fighter's maximum health during the duration time of this daily skill (of course in PvP this healing should be less effective twice). This change will make this skill effective for tanky guardian-fighters as for DD guardian-fighters.
5) Skill [Knight's valor]
*Defend your party, temporarily intercepting half of all damage taken they would have taken, and then builds threat based on portion of how much you intercepted.*
This skill is the best for protection of your team. And tanky guardian-fighters usually use it. But now there is extremely high difference in damage between absolutely tanky and absolutely DD guardian-fighters. But there is very low difference between them in defence. DD guardian-fighters doesn't use this skill in PvP. So, that's mean that the following proposals of improving this skill will be useful only for tanky guardian-fighters in PvP (in PvE these proposals will make all guardian-fighters more solid as a tank): could you add to 2, 3 and 4 levels of this skill a new effect that will be increase guardian-fighter's defence while [Knight's valor] is active on 5% per level (max +15% self defence on 4 level of this skill).
----
Thank you so much for your attention. I've spent a lot of time for thinking about these proposals and for writing them (due to my poor knowledge of English). I will be very happy if all these proposals will be read by those people who involved in the mechanics of class. It should be great if they will write something in this discussion. Great thanks in advance
And sorry for my english
I would like to express the opinion of player who plays just for tanky guardian-fighter in the branch of protector about two years about tanking of thise game class.
Highlights:
1) Guardian-fighter protector can give good defence to his team (but much worse than Paladin).
2) In PvE he can deal threat very well.
3) Guardian-fighter protector has some defense but his defence is still poor according to the fact that he must be absolutely tanky to as best as possible defend his team.
-COMPLETED-4) In a lot of other mmorpgs tank in PvE besides healing has needs in defence of just one character (his self defence or defence of healer). But in Neverwinter Online in PvE to survive besides healing guardian-fighter in one time must block absolutely all foe's hits using all self defense that he has and use all defence that healer gives to him. Usually (in a lot of other mmorpgs) tank has enough self defence and from healer needs just healing. Could you do that in Neverwinter Online: get to the guardian-fighter protector enough self-defense and make him needy in just to be healed.
5) The most part of guardian-fighter's self healing is based on his damage. This is unfair to the tanky guardian-fighter because he is designed to protect and to deal threat but not to deal enough damage to heal himself. That's why I am asking for intoducing some changes in guardian-fighter's self healing that should not be based on his damage.
6)Has no abilities to out from CC (very important for tanks).
So, let's go to concrete proposals about improving only tanky guardian-fighter's tanking.
1)Last feat in the branch of Protector [Iron guard].
*With every melee hit on an enemy, you reduce it's damage by 5%. Maximum 20% damage reduction.*
This skill very useful for self defence and for team's protection. But to activate it guardian fighter must hit the foe. Also guardian-fighter protector usually constantly uses shield block (to survive in battle as long as possible to give protection to his team) and strikes against enemy makes the guardian-fighter open to enemy attacks that can interrupt [Knight's valour] from his back. Also in real battle range DD usually tries to stay on a high distance from the battle thats why guardian fighter protector staying in center of battle can't activate [Iron guard] and on them. There were two reasons why GF need to use passive skill [Guarded assault]. Foes dealing damage to guardian-fighter or to teammates (who is under [Knight's valour] of guardian-fighter) will be striked back by [Guarded assault] and will be debuffed by [Iron guard]. But from the guardian-fighter is required to use the [Guarded assault] instead of the other more defensive ability.
That's why I am asking for changes in activation of guardian-fighter feat [Iron guard]. Could you make to this feat should be activated not only with every melee hit on the foe but and with every foe's hit on the guardian fighter.
2) A new passive skill of guardian-fighter [Desperate survival]
*Increase your deflection chance by 1/2/3%. When your Hit Points are below 30% your Stamina regenerates 30% faster.*
This passive skill is unusable because as it was already wrote one passive slot is occupied by [Guarded assault] (to use [Iron guard]) and the other passive slot is occupied by [Shield talent] (to have enough stamina for blocking well because guardian fighter now has no defence without blocking). So, [Desperate survival] is a high level passive skill, but it is worse than [Shield talent] because it gives stamina regeneration just when guardian fighter has less then 45% health (in PvE now it is one hit for a lot of mobs even thru shield block, in PvP I can't wait for 45% health because my [Knight's valour] would be interrupted by CC effects without stamina boost). I mean that idea about having some bonuses after taking some damage in battle (when health will be low) is not effective on practise. Thats why I am asking for improving this passive skill in the folowing way: could you delete threshold of HP for stamina regeneration bonus to this bonus be active all over the time while this passive skill is used.
3) Skill of guardian fighter [Iron warrior]
*You gain temporary Hit Points based on your missing Hit Points, and you Stamina regeneration is increased by 50%. In addition, all your attacks generate 200% more threat while this buff is active. Also you gain +30% damage resistance while this buff is active.*
This self buff was tasty for tanky guardian fighters when they had health regeneration in module 5. But now in spite of 30% resistance bonus using this skill is dangerous because now while guardian fighter cast this skill he takes much more damage than benefit that this skill can get. Thats why I am asking for a bit changes of this skill: Could you change calculation of Temporary Hit Points from "based from missing health" to "near 30-40% of guardian-fighter's maximum health" (of course this healing should be twice less effective in PvP).
-ADDED-It will be great if this skill will clean all CC effects and get immunity to new ones for 1-2 seconds. Or if there is no CC effects on GF at the moment it will be great if [Iron Warrior] will absorb one future CC effect (and after absorbtion get immunity to CC for 1-2 seconds).
4) Daily skill [Fighter's recovery]
*You steady yourself and gain vigor for the fight to come by temporarily healing for a large portion of the damage you deal.*
Healing of this skill is based on guardian-fighter's damage. But as it is already wrote tanky guardian-fighter is designed to protect and to deal threat but not to deal enough damage to heal himself. Thats why I am asking for following addition to this skill: could you add healing near 40-50% of guardian-fighter's maximum health during the duration time of this daily skill (of course in PvP this healing should be less effective twice). This change will make this skill effective for tanky guardian-fighters as for DD guardian-fighters.
5) Skill [Knight's valor]
*Defend your party, temporarily intercepting half of all damage taken they would have taken, and then builds threat based on portion of how much you intercepted.*
This skill is the best for protection of your team. And tanky guardian-fighters usually use it. But now there is extremely high difference in damage between absolutely tanky and absolutely DD guardian-fighters. But there is very low difference between them in defence. DD guardian-fighters doesn't use this skill in PvP. So, that's mean that the following proposals of improving this skill will be useful only for tanky guardian-fighters in PvP (in PvE these proposals will make all guardian-fighters more solid as a tank): could you add to 2, 3 and 4 levels of this skill a new effect that will be increase guardian-fighter's defence while [Knight's valor] is active on 5% per level (max +15% self defence on 4 level of this skill).
----
Thank you so much for your attention. I've spent a lot of time for thinking about these proposals and for writing them (due to my poor knowledge of English). I will be very happy if all these proposals will be read by those people who involved in the mechanics of class. It should be great if they will write something in this discussion. Great thanks in advance
Post edited by dolrey on
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Comments
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Sorry but GF isnot the one lacking on this lane.Paladin is the one which is overpowered when it comes the tanking.You also seem to want a GF that can also Shield itself from CC(Shield can block nearly all CCs except trapper HRs) and get out of it if you get caught.Yes GWFs have unstoppable to get them out from CC but what it can do when unstoppable ended?You have shield,they are sitting ducks the second their Unstoppable ended
I appreciate your time to give us the ideas and the feedback is definitely useful but you're trying to compare two classes from which one is incredibly OP vs. the other.
At the moment we can;t compare GF to a OP, it just wont work. Pallys are so overpowered that even the most hardcore class defenders (OP's included) are saying it's too much. They can tank in all directions, they can generate an incredible amounts of temp HP, they can buff AREAS around them with AOE auras, they can pull the bubble out of their HAMSTER making peeps immortal, if they compare their abilities with some other classes ones, they can do better DPS than BIS DPS classes...and the list goes on.
As someone else noticed, GF is an old class. Designed back in the days when the game was vastly different than these scraps of Neverwinter we see today.
I'm sorry I have to say this, but in order to make GF better, it's not only the matter of helping the class itself, but it's the matter of balancing the OP so it can be on par with the guardian.
At the moment GF is a solid class, but when you look at GF and a OP side by side - you're seeing an old man vs. the 20 year old youngster superman.
Some of your ideas area great.
I personally would love to see a implementation of guard system, the one that can be seen in Dragon's Age Inquisition.
Played the game as a 2H warrior, and the guard system was excellent !
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
I've run eToS with my CW behind a GF and an OP, the GF is a much more interesting run and the different parts of the party matter a lot more. With my OP (which is not BiS) I'm starting to run door to door, since the ArP bug fix eToS has been a sleep walk.. I actually struggle to sustain attention on Syndryth after she changes to Dridar form... so yes OP needs some work.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.