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What happened to the TR?
silktrocity
Member Posts: 239 Arc User
First off I want to mention that I come from Xbox. (TLDR VERSION AT THE BOTTOM)
As you may or may not know, we recently just got mod 6.. and a lot has changed.
Im a PvP player (I cater my build to accommodate that.) I've experimented with both paragon paths, along with all 3 trees multiple times despite not having a preview server. I can honestly say that I think I know a lot more about my class then the average person in regards rotations, play style, and which feats are most effective for each of the trees.
I must admit the following before we go further: We were in fact over powered. Our class had a drastic advantage over most classes in PvP. I will not get into an argument with others who don't agree, as it's just an opinion and that's not what this thread is about.
Anyways.. I had previously been abusing the Scoundrel tree, (perma daze if you will.) because not only was it fun being up in your face, but the Control was ridiculously overpowered mixed with ITC, it took 3 or 4 people to get the leg up on me. Again remember I've tried every tree, Saboteur was interesting but was more of a peek aboo tree, I didn't really enjoy the executioner much because everyone at the time was abusing the plague fire glitch. The speed boost to Scoundrel was also very enjoyable.
So when Mod 6 arrived, I noticed several things which prompted me to yet again switch up paragon trees.. The amount of HP our gear now gives us is insane.. It almost negates the purpose of our burst damage. It honestly puts on the same level as other classes now (perhaps even lower compared to HR and GWF) As I've said in another thread, it's insane that the only thing the developers needed to do to properly balance our class was to give everyone much more HP.
I can honestly say that with the changes to our HP, Lifesteal, and Regen, our class has become vastly less effective. while at the same time other classes (such as the HR) capitalize on the survivability because now their rotations can last much longer. Sure we can still troll nodes and survive (like a tank) but It's now extremely difficult to kill people because the battles not only last longer because of the hitpoints, but our damage doesn't scale. Our class isn't meant to take part in prolonged battles,
My question is, what are you good folks on the PC doing to capitalize on these changes, and still keep the class relevant? I play saboteur currently because I thought the piercing damage would help, but it's clearly not making up for the update changes. I'd be more then happy to share my build but I don't think it's my feats or how I play the class.
TLDR: Mod 6 balances the TR a little too well, to the point where it's not as effective as say a HR or GWF anymore. Are there any tips you can share that have helped you cater to these changes in any of the 3 play styles of TR??
As you may or may not know, we recently just got mod 6.. and a lot has changed.
Im a PvP player (I cater my build to accommodate that.) I've experimented with both paragon paths, along with all 3 trees multiple times despite not having a preview server. I can honestly say that I think I know a lot more about my class then the average person in regards rotations, play style, and which feats are most effective for each of the trees.
I must admit the following before we go further: We were in fact over powered. Our class had a drastic advantage over most classes in PvP. I will not get into an argument with others who don't agree, as it's just an opinion and that's not what this thread is about.
Anyways.. I had previously been abusing the Scoundrel tree, (perma daze if you will.) because not only was it fun being up in your face, but the Control was ridiculously overpowered mixed with ITC, it took 3 or 4 people to get the leg up on me. Again remember I've tried every tree, Saboteur was interesting but was more of a peek aboo tree, I didn't really enjoy the executioner much because everyone at the time was abusing the plague fire glitch. The speed boost to Scoundrel was also very enjoyable.
So when Mod 6 arrived, I noticed several things which prompted me to yet again switch up paragon trees.. The amount of HP our gear now gives us is insane.. It almost negates the purpose of our burst damage. It honestly puts on the same level as other classes now (perhaps even lower compared to HR and GWF) As I've said in another thread, it's insane that the only thing the developers needed to do to properly balance our class was to give everyone much more HP.
I can honestly say that with the changes to our HP, Lifesteal, and Regen, our class has become vastly less effective. while at the same time other classes (such as the HR) capitalize on the survivability because now their rotations can last much longer. Sure we can still troll nodes and survive (like a tank) but It's now extremely difficult to kill people because the battles not only last longer because of the hitpoints, but our damage doesn't scale. Our class isn't meant to take part in prolonged battles,
My question is, what are you good folks on the PC doing to capitalize on these changes, and still keep the class relevant? I play saboteur currently because I thought the piercing damage would help, but it's clearly not making up for the update changes. I'd be more then happy to share my build but I don't think it's my feats or how I play the class.
TLDR: Mod 6 balances the TR a little too well, to the point where it's not as effective as say a HR or GWF anymore. Are there any tips you can share that have helped you cater to these changes in any of the 3 play styles of TR??
Lady Vayo TR - Silky OP - Lord Reven DC (retired) - Lady Luck HR (retired)
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Comments
you wanna keep been scoundrel? all feats on dps no stealth regen. str+dex focus on hp arp power deflect life steal.
wanna be good sab? semo perma cookie cutter with cos? look for black lotus 007 tr guide its still good for pvp op tr
I'm hardly an offensive threat because of the huge boost in HP. I may take what you said into consideration regarding the scoundrel, but I feel as if they nerfed the cap feat because the daze doesn't seem nearly as long as it use to be.
In PvP that minor interrupt in casting is a great feature... and often gives others that little edge that they needed for the kill. I have gone toe to toe with many cookie-cutter Sabs... and they are like paper dolls.
There is a slight difference in play style regarding the MI Scoundrel and the Wk Scoundrel... but both are VERY At-Will oriented styles. Dailies are just the icing on the cake instead of the relied on method of killing. A round or 2 of DF with a Lightning enchant... not fun for the target.
When you're too much used to shooting people with a gun inside a boxing match, sometimes, being deprived of the gun feels like somebody cut off your arms and legs... except once you get used to it, you rediscover how to use your hands and feet to move and punch someone good.
Currently, TRs are like that. On one side, we've got a huge bunch of whiney crybabies ranting that they need their guns or otherwise they're doomed, and on the other side, we've got a few people who threw away their piece and got used to actually fighting bare-handed against other people under more or less equal conditions.
All I can say is, some of us "bare-handed" TRs are eagerly waiting for the day when the 'referees' decide to finally take away the guns from those crybabies.
Should be fun.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I've met some of the 'you-know-who' GWFs... Mr. I-something... D-something.. L-something... S-something.. etc etc.. who are usually around 800~1k higher IL than me. I've never got the impression they were overpowering or difficult. The only feeling I get is "cumbersome", because to kill guys like them it takes quite a bit of time, and quality 1v1 time is a luxury that's usually not easy to find in PvP.
Of course, in the few instances that there was enough time to leisurely 1v1, I've won a few, lost a few, probably been defeated more than won, but then, like said, they're 800~1k above me... but then again, in every case, I've never given them an easy fight. It usually goes like either I make a mistake, or I don't, in the former case I run, in the latter case the other guy runs, and rarely, if ever 'to the death'.
So don't get hit. Hit only when you can hit without being hit yourself. Run and hide when things go dangerous.
Isn't this what all TRs do? Brawler TRs play in the same way as any permastealth TR when it comes to the above principle. The difference is that the way we do it does not involve bullshi* mechanics which the other guy has no way of properly countering. Our tactics can be countered, which, in that case, we improvise. Isn't this what PvP is about?
Why does anyone play PvP if he has near-impregnable defenses that allows almost no retaliation from the other guy, and at the same time totes around a great big hammer with a tactical nuke strapped on to it that he can swing around to 1~2 shot people every 20~30 secs or so?
Just ask the devs for an "I WIN" button and its the same thing for those kind of builds and tactics.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Right now I see the TR being at the cusp of Raw Skill and Raw Damage as many walk away from the cookie-cutter builds. When a Scoundrel can enter eCC with players who out gear him by 300 to 500 iL... and he ends up being the Paingiver by a large margin... that says a lot.
I've never been the type to abuse glitches, nor have I played the executioner tree more then a week or so as I've always tried to be a support type rogue.. but when I'm hitting like a wet noodle compared to every other dps class in the game, it's kind of irritating.
I honestly feel as if they only realistic and viable way to play this class now is to run around invis and cap nodes. the ONLY time Im able to actually do enough damage to kill someone is if it's a 1v1 (but it takes WAYYYY to long and usually they receive help) or if our team is just zerging a node and my smoke bomb ends up kill stealing.
I'm specced for damage, stating strength and crit, but it just isn't enough to overcome this huge HP threshold while other classes seem to have no problem burning through the points, I've already exhausted several rotations and see that their health is still at around 80%..
Can anyone enlighten me as to what they actually did to the class in regards to changes and "nerfs" so I can better understand what I could be doing wrong? As I've said, I consider myself an above average pvp player with knowledge of the class more then most. I'm not understated in regards to gear either..
Consequently due to my play style (run and ambush) I don't die much, and get lots of "Yeah that's what I thought TR trash" when I run away from pointless fights (yeah...not gunna try taking a node guarded by 6 people sorry)...More concerned with capping anyhow, usually end games with 1-3 deaths and 8 - 25 kills etc.
Don't feel underpowered TBH.
3K IL WK Sabo TR
Trying to suck less @ pvp near you