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A sad day, not for just players, but for the devs, cryptic and everyone involved.

silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
edited September 2015 in Player Feedback (PC)
I would like to point out before I begin, that this isn't just about leadership, its about the continuation of revolving mistrust between the team and the player-base that is fostered, by lack of communication and too often, complete lack of control on the management side.

Where to start: LEADERSHIP changes.

Your leadership changes could've been warranted, if you implemented them correctly, removal of AD, is a massive change, and what you gave back (exp) is a pathetic joke. Instead of dropping more stones (or unlocking the 3 task only limit) and/or even things like ten day tasks to earn a boa GMOP. You instead devolved all value into the profession (or most of it) a profession that you already made one of the longest to get to the end. Now leadership is only valuable at lvl 24 with the resonant stones, no other leadership task is worth doing at this current time. I can see why you would want to remove leadership, but you did not at all work with the player-base on this, you already decided beforehand and leveled the harshest penalty ever against regular (paying) customers. Ouch.

The next "logical" step: COSTING reductions.

ANY tampering with leadership SHOULD only have come with a announcement that costing was going to be reduced across the board by 50-100% for AD.

Things that should be removed entirely, now that we no longer can generate over half of our AD income:

1. Stronghold AD donation, where do you think we GOT our AD to donate with?
2. Stronghold GEm donation.. where do you think we GOT our gems from?
3. Boons, this is too harsh of a penalty (really always has been) with the lack of AD in the ecomony, this needs to be removed.

Items that should be reduced in cost structure now that we have lost over half of our AD income, THESE are cost gating items, not supply and demand items, supply and demand WILL be impacted by reduced AD, but THESE items are tied into a strict cost gating set by cryptic.

1. Mount costs, always way too high, need to be chopped by 50% of current upgrade (and frankly this makes little differnce to me, I wouldnt spend the AD on it anyways.
2. Companions, this is a major AD dump, fine when you could generate millions of AD , not so fine when we lose most of income, please reduce the costing by 50% total, even then its really , really expensive.
3. ALL refinement stones in the Baazar, by 50% of thier value.

Continued applications of disastrous reasoning implementation, even when feedback tells you a vastly different experience. We (the playerbase) tried to explain to you why Mod 6 was a complete disaster when it was released, we (the playerbase) even tried to tell you DONT release it the way you had built it. After loosing a few thousand customers, you finally got around to fixing not just the WORST expansion of this game, but maybe one of the worst expansions in the history of MMOs, kudos to you for being so brave as to release something so terrible written and broken. This is ON PAR with that decision, making such a massive change, WITHOUT listening to feedback will do nothing, but reduce your income in the end.

Its also becoming increasing clear that management, devs, DO NOT play this game, they do not understand the frustrating levels of work you have implemented and you "think" its fun to spend 2 hours grinding little trinkets to throw in a strong hold coffer, but AT the same time, think we have all this extra time to GRIND AD daily. There is just too much garbage things to do and not enough (LETS RUN DDS) in the game at the moment. Its not good, it is also abundantly clear that what the players want (rewarding Dungeons) and what you have continued to give us are on two totally separate pages.

IM FINE with no one on your side actually playing the game to any extent, IM NOT fine when you ignore feedback testing on items you change in game.

I would like to close with this with a quote be author Ziad K. Abdelnour, writer of economic warfare:secrets of wealth creation in the Age of Welfare Politics

" Trust is earned, respect is given, and loyalty is demonstrated. Betrayal of any one of those is to lose all three."

It is truly a SAD day for the game when we cannot work together to make it better. No MMO ever succeeded by destroying trust.

Thank you,
Silverkelt

Comments

  • blinxonblinxon Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    One of the best posts ever....congratz m8.
  • b44lin0rb44lin0r Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    I agree with all of it. But I doubt that they will introduce at least one of those changes.
    Critical Hit! Your Sure Strike deals 388295 (222258) Physical Damage to High Priestess Syndryth.


  • vinceent1vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    good post, please send it to them on mail too. they must feel real feedback outside of forum, everywhere possible. which they dont read seriously
  • kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    Well written man.

    I'm sure "they'll look into" your ideas <3
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
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  • matiagronxmatiagronx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 251 Arc User
    So many great posts reflect the truth regarding this game's development and management, however Cryptic stays impervious to everyone's opinion despite each opinion's truthfull importance and direct relevance. Its so sad that a game and franchise like DnD fell into the hands of incompetent management and clearly noone, not even WOTC, cant do nothing about it but just wait till everything falls apart or hopefully rises from the ashes. The MOST discouraging thing of all mentioned in this post, and others like this of course, is that its so OBVIOUS that developers and management DO NOT PLAY the game. This is beyond any reason, it should be mentioned in the guinness book of derps. You CANNOT possibly have any good effect on this game if you DONT ACTUALLY play it. How can you possibly know the several aspects of it? How can you possibly UNDERSTAND the importance of player feedback if you DONT know what they talk about?

    Solution? We must all combine our forces and summon a gigantic FACEPALM and cast it upon Cryptic's offices. No other way to deal with it but humor unfortunately..
  • santralafaxsantralafax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    kemi1984 said:

    Well written man.

    I'm sure "they'll look into" your ideas <3 </p>

    They will analyze it, too. Many months of analysis and watching the data! :-)

    Seriously, they are good with the sledgehammers, but this isn't the crew that put the game together. There's no subtlety. They could never pull off something like Dread Ring, IMHO. They take away dungeons, amp difficulty, watch the data a lot. Months later they lower difficulty, and what was that about dungeons??? Oh, we're still watching the data....

    Now they are wreaking havoc on the economy with vague assurances that solo players will be given opportunity and that costs will be contained. After they watch some data, do some analysis, watch the data some more....

    Am I being insulting? I hope so.
  • instynctiveinstynctive Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,885 Arc User
    Things will change again when XBoxers start crying to Microsoft.
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    "...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
  • aletharalethar Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    Good point. I don't really know what the hell is going on with this game. Why they keep introducing very bad content, very bad ideas and everything? This game lacks of end-game and all the activities they give us are really 0-rewarding.

    BUT

    I am a guild member. Our guild is actually a huge alliance of guild (or used to be before mod6). As I mentioned, before Mod6 we had 7 guilds and around 700 active players. After mod 6 only 3 guild are active now with 280 players. Is it not an indicator of very bad decisions and wrong way of game "developing"??????????

    It is not the end. Now after leadership changes the next wave of leaving is coming. Our guild leader is leaving the game. He, who played this game from the beta and who spent so much money and also had around 30 full lvled characters. He spent every every free time to develop his chars or develop our guild (it was 700 people in pre6 mod). Cryptic should thank him for doing so much for this game and other players. But what they are doing? I don't have to say it again, I think thousands of players said it thousands of times already.

    The one thing which is clear to all players is that devs think only about money and want to increase zen sales. What a disastrous way of thinking. The best way to increase your income is to focus on players and their joy and fun. It will increase their numbers and so on zen sales. Is it so hard to understand?

    Good job Cryptic or PW or whatever you call yourselves. You have done really gooood job in ruining this game, players fun and your company in the end.
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  • lirithiellirithiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    I think the saddest thing of all is the fact the devs do not play this game and the incoming changes very much reflect that. How can you implement such massive game-changing adjustments but are oblivious to the impact it will have on the community because you are clueless as to how things actually work in-game. The minuscule amounts of ADs rewarded for time spent is an absolute joke, not to mention that there is now a cap on AD earned on skirmishes and dungeons. And as if the solo player hadn't suffered enough, these new changes make the experience even more unfriendly towards them. Scott, I am extremely disappointed in the direction of the new team, whose track record thus far doesn't exactly inspire confidence for the future for this game.
    Our pain is self chosen.

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  • xedo01xedo01 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    lirithiel said:

    I think the saddest thing of all is the fact the devs do not play this game and the incoming changes very much reflect that. How can you implement such massive game-changing adjustments but are oblivious to the impact it will have on the community because you are clueless as to how things actually work in-game. The minuscule amounts of ADs rewarded for time spent is an absolute joke, not to mention that there is now a cap on AD earned on skirmishes and dungeons. And as if the solo player hadn't suffered enough, these new changes make the experience even more unfriendly towards them. Scott, I am extremely disappointed in the direction of the new team, whose track record thus far doesn't exactly inspire confidence for the future for this game.

    1. ^this

  • marsambassadormarsambassador Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    Great post!

    I'd like to see:

    1) fixed AD costs reduced by 90%

    2) AD dropping from monster kills like black ice does in Kessel

    3) AD and random refining rewards drop in all chests and for all quests in game

    4) Fix Foundry and provide real support and real rewards. This area is key to creativity in user base and variety for player sick of fixed content

    5) Bring back all dungeons and all skirmishes to play at lvl 70

    6) Add huge XP rewards to Leadership so I can at least keep using it for Power Points

    7) Give me a week long Leadership task for GMOP. Or better yet, remove GMOP altogether
  • fogtripperfogtripper Member Posts: 179 Arc User


    A mostly well thought through posting.

    Thank you,
    Silverkelt

    Unfortunately there needs to be a way of removing the excess AD from the economy. Dropping costs before doing that will only really benefit those sitting on a dragon's hoard of AD.
  • archanarchistarchanarchist Member Posts: 144 Arc User
    they didnt remove it after caturday its a bit late now. they cant deflate economy without progresive taxes all their coffer levys boons extra are regresive taxes. they are infact going the otehr way. what they have just done is institue a 50-4000% or so income decrease, with no progresive taxes and no issues with perishability of items like in the real world. it will be just like the coal wards, you were here before or you were here after, if you were here before you got to be if youd been interested in that (it was already a bit grindy for me to have made more then a few greater plauge fires and a vorp) if you joined after just the coal wards to get 1 weapon enchant to old max rank was US$140 with level cap raise that went up to US$160. cryptic prices refinement at 150k refinement for US$20 a weapon takes 4 million RP or something stupid to max rank at prices cryptic thinks is reasonable/will sell that is US$100s same for offhand belt and neck take less but still looking at $US100+ if you bought at what cryptic thinks is reasonable.
  • drkbodhidrkbodhi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,378 Arc User
    Cheers mate.​​
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  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,047 Arc User

    Things will change again when XBoxers start crying to Microsoft.

    Xboxer will keep their AD in Leadership, only PC players get Leadership "light" to play with.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
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    Because it sends a message!
  • ghia#4018 ghia Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I have seen this same recipe so many times with game devs and major nerfs like this. Of course it would have made sense to do some cost cutting in the same patch as this, but players can only see whats being taken from them right now and so any changes to lighten this hit would barely be appreciated at this time. My bet is that they will reduce costs and make some other adjustments in future updates, and then feel like saviors and expect a pat on the back for doing so.

    As a new player, im really bummed out after reading through various threads on this subject as I was under the impression that this game was very solo-player friendly. From some of the posts I have seen from players who prefer doing things mostly solo, they feel as though they need to either start doing group play all the time or find a new game.
    That's kinda sad for them :(
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    Agreed, you forgot the important part though, that tbh, the game would now be better off without artifact gear, if we were to revert it to the time before the artifact weapon.

    Also, to anyone complaining, this game is seriously not P2W, there isn't anyone with enough money who would actually spend that much money in order to get BiS.
  • fogtripperfogtripper Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    ghia#4018 said:

    I have seen this same recipe so many times with game devs and major nerfs like this. Of course it would have made sense to do some cost cutting in the same patch as this

    There is too much AD in the economy. Lowering costs would have made it worse if done right off of the bat. Increasing rewards of AD for dungeons, PvP and skirmishes would have been the first move to make. Costs need to be lowered, I agree. But only after deflating the glut of AD that people are sitting on.
  • lorddemonragelorddemonrage Member Posts: 33 Arc User

    I would like to point out before I begin, that this isn't just about leadership, its about the continuation of revolving mistrust between the team and the player-base that is fostered, by lack of communication and too often, complete lack of control on the management side.

    I would like to close with this with a quote be author Ziad K. Abdelnour, writer of economic warfare:secrets of wealth creation in the Age of Welfare Politics

    " Trust is earned, respect is given, and loyalty is demonstrated. Betrayal of any one of those is to lose all three."

    It is truly a SAD day for the game when we cannot work together to make it better. No MMO ever succeeded by destroying trust.

    Thank you,
    Silverkelt

    I was gonna start my own topic, but you beat me to it is this. Along with this vastly disappointing decision they have made. I noticed that the game launcher highlights:

    "Stronghold Seige: War is Here!!"

    really.... now where is this headline?

    "Leadership Changes : Roflcopter At Your Source of Diamonds!!"

    You really think everyone is talking about Seiges??

    You do realize before you feed people a load of bull you need to put on your standard issue MiB shades and press the button on the de-neuralyzer right?

    /jedimindtrick "Stronghold Seige.......These are not the diamonds you are looking for...." /jedimindtrick

    Your antics was at the best amusing in the past.

    WAS....
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  • khimera906khimera906 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    What's bothering me the most is not the removal of AD from Leadership. I'm bothered that they took so long to do it. I'm bothered that for two years they left me to invest so much time and AD/Zen in a profession that's pretty much useless now.
    I can't believe I was thinking to buy VIP for a year ... I must have been out of my mind, I somehow thought things were starting to get better. Screw this! There are better uses for my money.
    Who the heII even cares anymore, anyway? They screwed this game hard over the course of many, many updates. This is just another drop in a ocean of disappointment.
    I stuck with this game because of the name and because of the combat system. None of that is worth anymore.
    I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,545 Community Moderator
    edited September 2015
    Rather than making a million new threads about it, please make comments in the official thread about it. Starting multiple threads about the same topic is considered spamming and against the rules of these forums.
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