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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

New PVP Queuing system

saladir1saladir1 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
in General Discussion (PC)
Ok we have heard this time and time again pvp needs a rework to make it more fair but how to do it without pissing off the hardcore pvp community. I dont class myself as a pvp player but i do like to jump in and play every so often sometimes i get lucky and win sometimes i just get completely pounded by one of the premade pvp groups. I dont feel that is right to change the current pvp queue hardcore players have either paid or worked very hard to make there chars elite.

So now for my recommendation. Make a second pvp queue first for dominion to see how it works and then follow it through to GG. This second queue upon entering would place all players in minimum spec'ed level 70 gear and remove all current boons. This would give everyone the chance for a fair fight as there would be no gear advantage basicly no way of blaming anything if they loose. I believe having 2 queues would give everyone a chance to play pvp and enjoy it im sure for 1 that hardcore pvp players get bored going into matches and finding them selves up against a team that has in no way a chance of beating them and im sure some pvp player players would also like to play a game were gear is not reliant and is based more on skill.

This is my recommendation let me hear what you all think.
Andromath lvl 70 DC full heals
Saladir lvl 65 HR

Meaning of life the universe and everything = 42

Comments

  • azaris#6648 azaris
    azaris#6648
         Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    The most simple and obvious solution would be to make the queue dependent on your GS like dungeons. For example, 1600-2000, 2000-2500, and so on. And to avoid abusing the system, your gear is locked in when you join so you can not switch gear in attempts to circumvent the GS tiers.

    In a game where GS matters more than skill, it's the only fair way to go about this. There is absolutely no reason a best in slot, 4k+ toon should be fighting people who don't even have one piece of PVP gear yet, as they are just starting out. It's ridiculous.
  • sweatapodimassweatapodimas Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    Interesting idea, I thought of something similar, i.e. having a queue that forces everyone to use a normalized pvp version of armor/artifacts. Players would have less build varieties (not as much min/max), but character-builds/specs would still give some freedom. Certainly would weed out the high gear/low skill players. Maybe do this just for the Champions League ("steroid free policy" analogy in sports), everyone on a level playing field (except of course the true deciding factors: individual skill and teamwork). This way it would not be all the time and make the Champions event that much more special.

    Good post. :smile:
    "Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa
  • ucanthandleucanthandle Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    The problem is not as much GS as it is premade vs pug. Premades will 9/10x have better gear because they are usually from pvp guilds that require it. Even if your pug team has 3-4 max gear players, you will still have 1-2 weaker links. The biggest problem is the coordination. Most premades will be on a voice chat like teamspeak etc. They will all speak the same language or understand each other. They can use real strategy and react quicker because of this. Even geared less than their opponent this gives them an advantage, and with equal gear or better they are almost unstoppable (if they know what they are doing). Not to mention they have the exact group composition that they want to be the most effective.

    I know there are usually those people that say, "But I have beat premades as a pug." Yes there are lots of times people have beat premades, but it is very rare. Ive also demolished plenty of rogues in pvp but that doesnt mean they are not overpowered.
  • setimoselosetimoselo Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 109 Arc User
    I think a Ranked and unRanked pvp que would be a good idea. I'm just not down with losing my gear for any reason.
    23uvq8m.png
  • henry404henry404 Member Posts: 690 Arc User
    As previously stated, the problem with any sort of matching system is that there are not enough active PVP players to make the matches, so you'd spend forever in a queue. It's been tried before in the game which is why the system was changed to what we have now. It's just not a PVP-centric game.
  • saladir1saladir1 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I dont think queuing by item level is efficient enough to sort queues. Somebody could rank 4 artifacts up to get stats and not upgrade to keep below a item level limit or remove 5 utility slot enchants to get item level down. Also you could have 1600 with all boons in game and 1600 without any boons.
    Andromath lvl 70 DC full heals
    Saladir lvl 65 HR

    Meaning of life the universe and everything = 42
  • saladir1saladir1 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I dont want anybody to loose gear seti i respect all players pvp and pve and i also see bias on both sides. Ive seen pvp players get booted from dungeons just because they wear pvp gear so pve players that complain about pvp players being op in there own game should think before they speak. This post is about creating to playing fields 1 so that elite pvp players can play and 1 that is available to all players.
    Andromath lvl 70 DC full heals
    Saladir lvl 65 HR

    Meaning of life the universe and everything = 42
  • henry404henry404 Member Posts: 690 Arc User
    Yeah, you are not getting the lack of players thing.
    The choice is between a system that matches you up quickly with potentially mismatched opponents and a system that waits and waits and waits and waits to try to match you with others of a similar level.
  • flambridgeflambridge Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 191 Arc User
    devs could use "room pvp system", maybe?
    I dont known so many labor need to implement this, but in fightans it work. (And in LoL / Dota, work too.)
  • lollernoob1000lollernoob1000 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    Instead of Removing gear, which would <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off the people who have spent money and or time, Perhaps they just make another Que for 4k Item level or such?
  • saladir1saladir1 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    maybe you miss-understood lollernoob only 1 of the pvp modes would remove gear the other would be like now.
    Andromath lvl 70 DC full heals
    Saladir lvl 65 HR

    Meaning of life the universe and everything = 42
  • canmanncanmann Member Posts: 203 Arc User
    I have recently waited for over 30 minutes for 9 others to join domination at 70.... You think adding multiple queues will help fix this? PvP is the dead horse everyone likes to beat.. They needed to address the issues long ago but never did now the PvP scene is a ghost town.

    I can only imagine how bad Stronghold PvP will be for queue times.
  • vinceent1vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    dont know why do you care about hardcore not be pissed, but the easiest solution should be allow only solo que at gauntlgrym
  • cbrowne0329cbrowne0329 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    saladir1 wrote: »
    So now for my recommendation. Make a second pvp queue first for dominion to see how it works and then follow it through to GG. This second queue upon entering would place all players in minimum spec'ed level 70 gear and remove all current boons. This would give everyone the chance for a fair fight as there would be no gear advantage basicly no way of blaming anything if they loose. I believe having 2 queues would give everyone a chance to play pvp and enjoy it im sure for 1 that hardcore pvp players get bored going into matches and finding them selves up against a team that has in no way a chance of beating them and im sure some pvp player players would also like to play a game were gear is not reliant and is based more on skill.

    This is my recommendation let me hear what you all think.

    Suggested this over a year ago... not gonna happen. In order for the matchmaking system to really work, they would likely haveto bring in people that worked on good matching making systems for FPS games, like Halo etc. Those devs are probably costly and I can't see it happening in a Freee MMO. The devs now could possibly do it, but they are on that churn out content life-cycle that keeps MMOs afloat.

    The thing is, PVP was probably a "it would also be nice" for this game as it is with most D&Ds... I think they really undervalued their combat system for it. To go back now and seriously address it... would mean pulling people off working on updates and recraft PVP-mm from the ground up. The only way they can do that and push out more contant would be to hire staff dedicated to PVP (contract or long term). I think for that to happen, a whole lot of VIP (maybe PVP specific) would have to be sold.

  • icyclassicyclass Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    They experimented with an elo ranking for PvP matchmaking before and scrapped it because the queue times were insanely long. Maybe algorithms could be tweaked and help a little with that, but probably not very much.

    So instead they keep doing things like NCL and gating Stronghold to force more people to participate in PvP.
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    azaris1 wrote: »
    The most simple and obvious solution would be to make the queue dependent on your GS like dungeons. For example, 1600-2000, 2000-2500, and so on. And to avoid abusing the system, your gear is locked in when you join so you can not switch gear in attempts to circumvent the GS tiers.

    In a game where GS matters more than skill, it's the only fair way to go about this. There is absolutely no reason a best in slot, 4k+ toon should be fighting people who don't even have one piece of PVP gear yet, as they are just starting out. It's ridiculous.

    Even if you gate them at 2k gear score they just add a T. Negation for all of 40 GS more than someone with a regular version of the enchant.

    Would probably need a PvP Gear Score that would properly weigh stuff like that.
    The problem is not as much GS as it is premade vs pug.

    I just tried a few rounds for the hell of it. I grabbed some blue lvl 70 PvP gear off the AH and jumped in DOM and right off the bat we're camped into spawn against players who none of us can damage. So while I'm sure part of it is that they know the mode a lot better than we do ... they can also just sit on the stairs and get up to get a drink out of the fridge while we put a whole rotation into them that takes maybe 1/10 of their health. Then they turn around and use two encounters and we're dead.
    So now for my recommendation. Make a second pvp queue first for dominion to see how it works and then follow it through to GG. This second queue upon entering would place all players in minimum spec'ed level 70 gear and remove all current boons. This would give everyone the chance for a fair fight as there would be no gear advantage basicly no way of blaming anything if they loose. I believe having 2 queues would give everyone a chance to play pvp and enjoy it im sure for 1 that hardcore pvp players get bored going into matches and finding them selves up against a team that has in no way a chance of beating them and im sure some pvp player players would also like to play a game were gear is not reliant and is based more on skill.

    Wish they would just make this an AD sink. Pay AD to join a match so that you're essentially converting AD+time into glory.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    While I could get in line with a gear change for PvP, I think, that removing boons is a bad idea. You play PvP to get the PvP boons and then you cant use them. Furthermore boons are not gated by a significant ammount of AD, but by time and dedication. No one can complain about ppl spending time to get the boons, just because he was to lazy, to do so. A new player can get them in a few weeks, so there is no argument for boon removement other then 'I am lazy, but I dont want you to have an advantage for your work'.

    If you really want to level the field you would have to do something about powerpoints, too. While I am able to max every skill and passive I want to slot, a new player cant do this. Who would decide, how many points I would lose in PvP and where. This wold just be doable with dual spec.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • zeromus3278zeromus3278 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    I think the problem is also the difference in gear causing the boring matches. Many matches are over in the first minute since somebody realizes there is no chance to compete. So the question is how do you get the high item levels fighting each other and the low item levels fighting each other without creating a long wait in the que? I don't think the developers understand that many of us are willing to sacrifice the wait in the que to get a match that will be fun and figure that a longer wait will start more complaints that pvp takes forever to get in.
    So my fix is this, to have two selectable ques:

    Que 1. A warning that will flash in red, then yellow, then red again and then make a siren that sounds like a car alarm to make sure the person knows what they're getting into that states "IF YOU CHOOSE THIS PVP QUE BE PREPARED TO WAIT A LONG PERIOD OF TIME DUE TO CAREFULLY SELECTED MATCHMAKING WITH PLAYERS THAT HAVE ITEM LEVELS SIMILAR TO YOU." The filter should scan for similar item levels and tenacity.

    Que 2. A que with a description that states "THIS QUE IS RANDOM AND THE QUICKEST, THE PLAYERS IN THE MATCH WILL EITHER TEAR YOUR HEART OUT AND MAKE YOU EAT IT OR THEY MAY PULL OUT A RUBBER KNIFE AND SCREAM AT YOU FOR THE ENTIRE DURATION FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO INFLICT ANY DAMAGE AS THEY SHOULD HAVE SLAYED YOU LIKE THE FAT GIANTS THAT HANG AROUND THE STRONGHOLDS."

    Maybe the summaries could be shortened, but a little comedy makes it fun :) Now people know going in that they'll have to wait for pleasure or they can take the quick route and get their AD bonus and get back to their PVE quests.
    Post edited by zeromus3278 on
  • talan010talan010 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9 Arc User
    Just randomize the team. So doesn't matter if you que as a premade team will be randomly assigned. Then add a que that requires 5 person premade
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    I think the problem is also the difference in gear causing the boring matches. Many matches are over in the first minute since somebody realizes there is no chance to compete. So the question is how do you get the high item levels fighting each other and the low item levels fighting each other without creating a long wait in the que? I don't think the developers understand that many of us are willing to sacrifice the wait in the que to get a match that will be fun and figure that a longer wait will start more complaints that pvp takes forever to get in.
    So my fix is this, to have two selectable ques:

    Low item level queues would probably fill a lot faster too. A lot of people don't play PvP because they know they'll enter a match and get spawn camped by 3k+ players. There seems to be a lot of machismo in pvp chat about how Mr. Moneybags could beat us all while naked but frankly they can keep their ivory tower and fiddle with themselves in it for all I care. Just give me a way to queue against a room where I can actually try to play PvP instead of giving all these guys a PvE game with players doing a good impression of an NPC for them.

    If you really want to level the field you would have to do something about powerpoints, too. While I am able to max every skill and passive I want to slot, a new player cant do this. Who would decide, how many points I would lose in PvP and where. This wold just be doable with dual spec.

    Considering the RNG on powerpoints now this should be done anyways : |
    I8r4ux9.jpg
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