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The threat mechanic
boatmanfall3n
Member Posts: 141 Arc User
When I started my GF I was under the impression that a GF had to deal damage to build threat. Now that I have played for a little over a month I am thinking that little to no damage is required.
I use threatening rush and tide of iron for at will abilities. Enforced threat, into the fray, and iron warrior as encounter abilities.
I keep into the fray and iron warrior up as much as possible. Hitting high hp pool enemies with tide of iron when I can. But to hold agro, I rely solely on enforced threat and threatening rush.
With only using enforced threat and threatening rush I rarely have any issues whatsoever maintaining threat on single or multiple targets.
The only other damage source I have is briartwine enchant on my armor (2% damage reflect) and shield talent (5% damage reflect when blocking).
Any vets out there know if damage is actually required to hold threat and if so, how do I hold threat so well while outputting such little damage?
(No, the dps I group with are not bad. They are normally from 13k to 15k GS and I'm only 12.5k)
I use threatening rush and tide of iron for at will abilities. Enforced threat, into the fray, and iron warrior as encounter abilities.
I keep into the fray and iron warrior up as much as possible. Hitting high hp pool enemies with tide of iron when I can. But to hold agro, I rely solely on enforced threat and threatening rush.
With only using enforced threat and threatening rush I rarely have any issues whatsoever maintaining threat on single or multiple targets.
The only other damage source I have is briartwine enchant on my armor (2% damage reflect) and shield talent (5% damage reflect when blocking).
Any vets out there know if damage is actually required to hold threat and if so, how do I hold threat so well while outputting such little damage?
(No, the dps I group with are not bad. They are normally from 13k to 15k GS and I'm only 12.5k)
Post edited by boatmanfall3n on
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I'm currently 16.1k tank
Holding agro as a Guardian Fighter is incredibly easy. I wouldn't focus on using so many threat pulling moves especially on boss mobs. I recommend taking your defense to 6k, deflect to 3k and immediately start stacking some offensive stats. Of course you should level up your constitution to give you the most HP possible. I recommend running the full set of grand regent (Tier 2). This set offers great defense and deflection and gives you power based on your defense (20% I think). I use 1 rank 8 Azure in the defense slot and the rest are silvery for deflection. Also, If you don't already have it I recommend saving up for any Ioun stone. They will give you the majority of your offensive stats and a few extra defensive. After getting your defense and deflection up I would shoot for around 4k power and 1.5k armor pen and crit.
You are currently at the point where agro is no longer difficult and survivability should also no longer be a problem. For most dungeons I would use cleave and threatening rush as your at wills, enforced threat, frontline surge, and lunging strike as your encounters. When approaching mobs use lunging strike if far away followed by frontline surge to knock them down, then enforced threat for taunt. If you're properly holding agro you shouldn't need knight's valor and the reflective damage in my opinion isn't worth using it. For your passives I use guarded assault with enhanced mark. Do your best to stay in guard between using your encounters because your offensive stats WILL affect your reflected damage. Also, grab yourself a lightning enchantment (not sure if you said you had one). This will also raise your dps. For Dailies I use Villain's Menace and it is a must. You gain increased damage, stamina regen, temp hit points, and most importantly you're immune to crowd control and knockdowns.
For shorter boss fights and boss fights with lots of mobs I use the skills listed above. For longer boss fights with less mobs I use tide of iron and cleave as my at wills, anvil of doom lunging strike, and iron warrior as my encounters, same dailies as above, and for passives I use shield talent and guarded assault.
Remember agro is drawn by way more than just taunts and damage. It is drawn from healing and debuffs. single mobs are easy to hold agro simply by using your single target mark (rb button) and smacking him with tide of iron between your encounters.
If you have any trouble holding mobs at all I recommend running with iron warrior giving you up to 200% threat with each hit. Also don't be afraid of dungeons without a healer. With fighter's recover you can make it through most dungeons with no healer at all. If you pop off fighter's recovery and there's a large mob then enforced threat will almost always heal you to max. Or to be safe you can go into guard mode and your reflected damage will actually heal you (takes a couple of seconds for me to hit max hp from about half way down).
This is a pretty long and detailed description on how I run my guardian fighter. Of course its all based on your own preferences so I'm sure that some will disagree with this however, I've done all dungeons without a healer minus Castle Never and I have no problem holding agro. The damage output will by no means be the highest in the group, however I noticed my damage go from about 2 mil a dungeon to about 5 or 6 (Shorter tier 2's).
Good luck with your build and let me know how it goes.
1) YOU are wasting slots/enchants etc etc if you go above 4k defence due to diminishing returns.
2) Being able to do dps and help kill hold threat is easy. You can use RB to select solo marks or enforced threat (which does a great deal of damage aswell if using plaguefire - hoping to get a greater plaguefire asap.
3) Being diverse and knowing what the group your in needs means you understand your powers. One of them being in a dungeon I almost always use into the frey.
4) Having an augmented companion and other companions that give active bonus that will help you.
5) Having the right artifcats will also boost you. Example I have purple lantern/purple waters/purple catalogue (dailys/soloing) but switch out the catalogue now for a blue blood raven (soon to be purple) when doing dungeons/pvp.
6) Dont be scared to experiment with the powers and get a setup that suits your style of play.
All in all im not saying every tank has to be just a buff bot (which I do) but being able to play the game and switching in and out powers makes the game more enjoyable.
IE Dailys I solo using lunging strike/frontline surge/knee breaker
Dungeons I use lunging strike/into the frey/knee breaker or enforced threat (depending on group) and sometimes use knights valor if i feel the team need it.
Pvp is use lunging strike/anvil of doom/bull charge
Always have fighters recovery and villans menace.
How you setup is upto you but being a hybrid/dps tank imo allows you to play the game in all area. Being just a tank that stands there doing no damge is limiting yourself to being able to play the rest of the game.
Hope this gives a different view
So much this. ALWAYS radiants in defense slots after 4k def. Period. End of sentence.
About threat generation: threat is based on damage, but you get a modifier based on abilities/feats. You generate increased threat to marked targets. Enough that, when marked by right bumper, you can basically aggravating strike to maintain aggro.
The best buffs/debuffs we can give are KV, ITF, marked targets, plaguefire enchant, and, most importantly, holding aggro. Your dps do more dmg when they're not kiting mobs, and mobs die faster when they're stacked in a group for the dps to aoe. Also, you need armor pen to get max benefits from mark and plaguefire. It also makes generating threat easier. It's easy to hold aggro in a PuG with average dps players. Try eLoL with 3 dps over 17k each doing 300k+ crits- time to think outside the turtle shell!
My GF is conq spec- basically pure offense in everything including a STR belt. I can still run KV, ET, ITF in dungeons and tank just fine. I'm IV so I can use threatening rush. It's nice to be able to have all enemies marked and have sufficient mobility. It's also nice to be effective outside of group play and in pvp.
"I saw you out there. I don't know what came over me, but I couldn't let you die. I found something inside of myself, something incredibly heroic. I mean, not to brag, but objectively..." -Peter Quill
Rex IV Tact GF | tRex SS Rene CW | GT: G3TxxS0M3
I rock Draconic set for fast AP and reduces all teamates DR. So im uhh, the other one lol dunno paragon.
I rely on KV, Group taunt, into frey, has gotten me through all current content in game fairly easily through out making my build
So anyway, lots of defence 4.5-5k is area i hold and change enchants as i progress further and gear etc changes. As i lose defence enchants ill go deflect or HP, depending on what i feel would benfit more. 2500-3K Deflect is goal.
Ok ok Threat lol
I also pick draconic for overloads i use blue and green legendary ones. Procs 800 def and deflect, also targets hit me i shock them for 600. Green one procs 30ft 600 ticks on everything, helps catch fresh adds, leading them to you so you can mark and damage.
Key factor for me is shield up, i keep marks when hit. So all above damage plus stabs and shield bash get amplified agro.
For singles and groups i use dmg immunity to my advantage, i use villians minis and slash at targets with WMS for groups, click RB and tide of iron, then cleave for single targets.with stacked recovery and drac set, and using into the frey before blocking alot of hits i can pretty much Daily almost at will.
Also for big groups going into frey, fighters recovery, AoE taunt then shield followed by stabs.
I proc AP regen, proc 100% lifesteal, hit like 90k, agro everything with my 90k heal too, shield for AP and stab for tons more agro from dmg and heals
Also with my style, group takes like no damage and i negate all of it almost. Regen helps alot. i don,t need healer for any T2 since i was 12k GS
Again, people keep trying to boost DR which is not usually the better option for this content. Your Effective Hitpoints (EHP if you've done any theorycrafting) is most improved by stacking hitpoints after around 3800 or so def which basically comes from your gear. 1000 points in deflect or def after softcaps are not nearly as effective as 4k HP.
"I saw you out there. I don't know what came over me, but I couldn't let you die. I found something inside of myself, something incredibly heroic. I mean, not to brag, but objectively..." -Peter Quill
Rex IV Tact GF | tRex SS Rene CW | GT: G3TxxS0M3
Im ball parking 4.5-5k def, at 15k and as i gain excess defence im gonna convert gems to HP
Have no issues in ELoL or ESoT, only goal now is make healers job easier, and go into overkill on threat lol
"I saw you out there. I don't know what came over me, but I couldn't let you die. I found something inside of myself, something incredibly heroic. I mean, not to brag, but objectively..." -Peter Quill
Rex IV Tact GF | tRex SS Rene CW | GT: G3TxxS0M3