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PVP Official Feedback Thread
yavieydev
Posts: 187 Community Manager
Greetings, Planeswalkers! Many of you have been asking about PVP and our future plans for it. Please, give us your feedback in this thread so that we can make 1V1 better while also getting ideas on what the community would like to see for other types of PVP.
Thank you!
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I think if you're going to implement overworld PVP it needs to be on a Dedicated Server. (Give Players a PVP Flag and spells/enchantments and summons) work a certain way when that flag is active. So that when we're doing PVE content, we're not being captured in the Umbrella of changes that need to be done to accommodate the PVP players and how those things work on monsters vs players. Too often in other games, you see a nerf to an ability/spell as it's too powerful in PVP. Which impacts the PVE game play. Don't be that type of game.
I believe PVP is an important part of games these days, I just feel that if you want to PVP be on a PVP server, or do 1V1, don't drag it into non PVP servers, or you have people flagged and the next thing you know you're unintentionally flagged and being killed. That's not how things should be done successfully.
Now these are my thoughts, and I appreciate you bringing it to the table. If I think of anything else, I will amend it to this post.
Warmest Regards,
A.
FIrstofall we need regional servers with a 100 ping limit for pvp, gameplay is too intense for pvp players to suffer more than 80-100 ping, they will simply not accept more and ignore the pvp aspect of the game, if not your game as a whole.
Also here's a list of suggestions for pvp enhancement :
New PVP Mode Idea: Commander
I'm not sure if this is possible with how the code is currently, but I believe this mode would be a more interesting 1v1 PVP mode. Each player selects a creature to be their "Commander". This Commander is summoned as soon as the match starts and is given a new keyword "Commander" which is stronger than elite, champion, and boss. While the Commander is alive, it's Planeswalker only takes 5% of damage from all sources. When the Commander is dead, it's Planswalker takes full damage from all sources.
This leads to having to balance both dealing damage to the opposing Planeswalker and their Commander blending PVE and PVP elements.
I like all of these ideas. I think draft mode has a ton of promise. I've already posted twice about ideas for that haha.
One of the most fun pvp formats I have ever played was in guild wars 1. They had these giant guild v guild v guild battles where you went around and captured points and tried to hold them. You didn't need to even be part of a guild to join them. I think that could work really well in this game, provided you figure out a way to deal with the massive number of players and creatures on screen. Even 2 v 2 v 2 on a smaller map would be pretty awesome.
Lots of people have mentioned a moba like mode too. That would also be super cool.
One thing I think that would make pvp popular and feel special is having these events only go off at certain times. Like once every hour for the MOBA or draft modes, and once a week for the world vs world massive battles. And then announce it to everyone and give a countdown timer. Having a queue open for all modes of pvp all the time is bound to lead to players never getting to play, and makes the game feel empty. Especially if you only have players face other players their same level.
For pvp to be fun, it needs to be an even battle. Horizontal progression giving players more choice is good, vertical progression giving you a numbers advantage is obviously bad.
I think if we're going to continue with a 1v1 format it should have a set loadout system similar to diablo 3 challenge rifts, where each player is locked to a certain loadout each week and competes.
I don't know if I am the only one who thinks this but if you do have mass battles then the creatures have to be toned down, even with 3 people sometimes you cannot find your mouse cursor, especially if they are running the black planeswalker in endgame content. Maybe limit creature points to 5 or something if there was like a 6v6 or larger CTF format (which is absolutely classic and I totally expect) or something similar, or else make it so your team can only lock in so many creature summoners (1 or 2 per party).
PvP is great like this, but as always, as every other missing point in the game right now we need something as reward for do it. Everyone probably tryed pvp just for fun, but after 2-3 games u realize is not worth spend time in there becouse u don't get stuff. so basically just do an eady thing in my opinion for now: exclusive new item u can gain if u win 5 or 10 weekly pvp. or, if u wanna focus more, weelky ladder reward system.
PvP is the only reason why I'm playing this game, so I really want it to succeed. Here are some ideas for consideration:
Features:
-2v2 and/or 3v3 mode. (Implemented so that people can queue to any combination of modes.) Also, in these modes, you could see the hands of your teammates.
-A log at the side of the screen that displays the names of the spells that your opponent casts.
-Make creatures more of a threat, because currently it's too easy to run around them.
-Eliminate unnecessary waiting times at the beginning and end of matches.
-If your opponent is off-screen, a pointer that points towards them. (Currently you have to look at the minimap to find them.)
-A replay option for a certain number of past matches.
-Prevent two players from getting matched with each other twice in a row.
-Allow the player to visit the Tailor or Broker while matchmaking.
-Play a sound when a match is ready for you to accept.
Balance:
There needs to be a mechanism that balances the power levels of PvP players, so that:
-The winner of a PvP match is mainly determined by skill, instead of loadout scores.
-High level players cannot "one-shot kill" low level players.
-Players with drastically different loadout scores (but of similar skill level) can get matched together, shortening queueing times.
I would also hope that every class would be equally viable in PvP.
Rewards:
Generally speaking, the more generous rewards PvP would offer to players, the more people would play PvP. Ideally, one could progress comfortably by playing PvP only. In the very least, players should be properly compensated for the time they invest into PvP.
PvP should not be tied to progression at all, it should be entirely separate from PvE. Tying PvE progression (materials, spells, equipment, etc.) to PvP just provides a mechanism for PvP players to grief PvE players. You aren't "investing time" into PvP - if you enjoy PvP, PvP is its own reward; if you don't enjoy PvP, PvP is a punishment. Linking PvE progress and PvP together is a recipe for a toxic community that drives away prospective players. The more generous the rewards offered by PvP, the easier it is for PvP players to mess with PvE players and get them to quit playing.
I like the idea of one or more people controlling the enemy creatures, who are trying to take down other players' Planeswalkers. Reminds me of Left4Dead 2.
More specifically, have a survival mode where the Planeswalker(s) need to not die for X amount of minutes. The player controlled enemies are not Planeswalker-strong, but have unlimited respawns. Also include standard AI controlled enemies so the Planeswalkers have the experience of getting swarmed. Maybe balancing power would be easier in this mode since its not Planeswalker vs Planeswalker?
I disagree heavily with you exasperation, PvE is the punishment and I really hope to never need to do it again.
PvP should definitely have some sort of honour shop, I would like to see player earned PvP gear as a reward since I don't feel like the PvE gear as it stands makes a lot of sense for PvP, the stats are too random and PvP just needs simpler gear anyway. I also don't really appreciate how someone who had a full set of rapacity gear would probably stomp all over me even if we both had rank 10 of all our abilities, or likewise mythic gears that just seem broken. PvP gear should just be outright better for PvP and easier to obtain via PvP rewards and unusable for PvE content. It would also make logical sense if you could earn gold, aether, spell pages, mana (regular stuff through PvP). I really wouldn't mind at all if PvE gear was still locked behind PvE, but that is the full extent that they should differentiate in rewards.
You're deliberately misrepresenting what I said. I said "if you enjoy PvP, PvP is its own reward; if you don't enjoy PvP, PvP is a punishment", not just "PvP is a punishment". You clearly enjoy PvP, so for you PvP is a reward. I don't think there's any reason why PvP progress should be gated behind PvE, either. There are other online games where characters for PvP are created at a set level instead of leveling up in PvE, and only use PvP-specific gear, and that's a perfectly reasonable way to run things so that PvP fans don't have to grind PvE activities to get to what they actually want to do. It's as unreasonable for you to expect other people to have to put up with a certain amount of PvP to get to their PvE content as it would be for me to insist that only characters that complete all of the story missions be allowed to participate in PvP (and yes, I'm aware that games exist that do this; I don't respect them for it).
Hello Yavieydev, thanks for the post on PvP. I’m glad to see the interest in it.
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Here’s my Magic Legends PvP Wish List:
#1 - Continue to monitor PvP and balance so every class is competitive.
#2 - Improve visual effects of buffs and debuffs. REFLECT, greater/minor haste, swiftness, vulnerability, snare, stun, etc.
Can be buffs/debuffs icons near the hp bar near top of screen, but also (at least reflect) should have a VERY VISIBLE effect around character. In my opinion, effects like reflect should appear the same in PvP as they do in PvE, and should be able to be seen and played around by the opponent.
#3 - Ranked pvp mode. Once the above two are done, this should follow. Needs to have a separate queue, leaderboard, structured ranks (bronze/silver/gold/plat/diamond/champion etc). Ideally ranked ladder would be viewable in game. (Huge bonus if players could gain cards or artifacts from this, like PvE instances!)
#4 - Private unranked matches. No rewards tied to this one. People should be able to specifically queue against their friends via private matches. Lets friends practice and enjoy PvP together, stress free. This will also allow for tournaments to be hosted by the community. (A spectating feature would be a FANTASTIC bonus to this!)
#5 - Roadmap for changes and updates. Having a outline for the progression of PvP changes will excite and engage the community and give people a timeline to look forward to, and a reason to continue playing the game while waiting for their upcoming content. It will also show the community that you’re all serious about progressing the PvP, where as they may not know that otherwise. If PvP’ers know they will be getting the updates they want down the road, it will motivate them to continue playing and training in the meantime!
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I think if the above things are done, Magic Legends has what it takes to become one of my favorite PvP games of all time. The core mechanics are so good. There’s so much potential here. I could see it dominating the ARPG PvP niche.
P.S. This was just off the top of my head. I’m a long time PvP competitor in games. I could go on and on and talk about this all day, but I wanted to keep my list as concise as possible. If you like where my head is at, and would like to chat more, I’d be more than happy to help. I’m Fahros on all social media, you can find me easily. I want this game to do well. I want this to be my new favorite PvP game. I want to help.
I agree 110% that we need a 2vs2 , 3vs3 mode unlocked.
Balance...
Would it be so hard to have a system in place with all gear, spells, and artifacts either stripped or set to the same powerlevel.
Also need stronger mana regeneration, given that there are not enemies in big supply to build mana back up on
If you really really wanted to get amazing data on PVP, here is a simple suggestion...
Possible Game modes?
Capture the Flag, Conquest (3 point capture system) , Deathmatch, and maybe some insane mode with no mana cost ?? That would be dope.
Add Ranks, rewards, some sort of cosmetic progression would be cool, 2v2, 3v3, FFA, Pre constructed deck battles.
Developers dont waste time on useless pvp, stick to pve , more content , bug fixes !
PvP in an ARPG was always very very very secondary as its too much dependant on Gear and Lvl to be any sort of even remotely fair challenge.
So please prioritize everything else before thinking about PvP here. I would support PvP modes if EVERYHTING else has been fixed. Right now creatures are useless so PvP is anyway only Sorcery vs only sorcery.
First fix the gameplay!
I will never understand people making comments that PvP should be ignored or be a last priority, especially those comments that use how other games do things to support their argument.
Some thoughts I have for those type of commenters:
#1: Magic Legends is not trying to be other games.
#2: It is not in Magic Legends best interest to copy how other games do things. That would be a recipe for failure, not success.
#3: Your own argument is exact reason why it's so good that Magic Legends will have more of an emphasis on PvP. You've just got it completely backwards. The fact that PvP does not exist in any competitive format in the ARPG genre means that Magic Legends can dominate that niche, and capture the entire community interested in it (myself included).
#4: I would urge those commenters to realize that not every game needs to be made exactly for them. The developer is clearly interested in PvP and that's why they asked for feedback on "how to improve it". That's not your queue to tell them they should change their direction as a game developer, lol. What a joke, honestly. If you don't like it, then simply stick to the content you enjoy.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk on how to leave more productive comments.
Again its NOT beeing against PvP! In fact i would welcome it as a very much appreaciatet addition to a well running and balanced game.
However i said that before any focus is put to PvP you need a stable and balanced game first. Without this any PvP is basicaly pointless (well except for those that dont want a real PvP but only exploiting bugs.)
Actually I've seen in these games before that anything that is balanced in PvE and PvP is completely different. Take for instance a 4 second stun, that would be absolutely insane in PvP, also heals always tend to be designed to be more mana efficient and stronger otherwise they wouldn't necessitate it for PvE, whereas games that just offer PvP tend to make heals weaker in general because you can cast a few heals off in downtime outside of combats. Another big area is skill shots versus target casts, I am unsure because I haven't tried much of some colours, but I assume maybe black has lots of spells that aren't skill shots and while it is balanced in PvE because it takes little skill to land it on a mob with a predictable AI pattern, humans just aren't as predictable.
The only element of unbalanced in this game is maybe that certain tribes are a lot easier to kill, take for instance goblins, I've been killing them on the hardest mode no problem even when I was new to the game, maybe this is more of a problem if you have bad AoE's but idk. Then also the reflect shields that instant kill, but I'm sure they are aware of that problem. But then I think you might be mistaking balance and quality gameplay as for quality gameplay I'm sure it's mostly just the lack of content and the repeatability of a mission, though I believe that PvE is actually far more expensive to create unless like say in warframe where they ended up reusing a lot of the same chambers and stuff across multiple maps. I think they did that in a really budget way, but to truly go with a better quality PvE I always believed it was best to make each feature feel unique to say the least.
the reflect shields are not a problem. there are many ways around it. you get around 3 seconds warning before they shield to stop attacking. also there are many builds to counter this effect. 1 being having reflect yourself. this, however could be game breaking in pvp as there is no warning nor indicator for 100% reflect. this will need to get reduced in pvp or just removed. maybe pvp could act like mtg tournaments and have banned combos and spells/artifacts/equipment to have balance when competing against one another while still having fun with your friends killing mobs in pvm with these broken builds
here are some of my thoughts on this:
:
Thats about it for now. I appreciate the game very much. It's been really fun.
Although there are still a lot of things to be done but pvp will be great project and I think a lot of us are really excited for it. It can potentially attract much more player than players right now. So yeah good luck guys. I hope the best for game.
For the pvp as it stands now, I would like to see player balancing. I think that loadout score and player level bonus should be equal. if its possible to get players spells to max only during pvp then that would be great to since it gives a big bonus. as far as your gear and artifacts, this should remain at your current level. this will offer a slight advantage as most of the bonus from leveling these items comes from your score which would already be fixed.
for other pvp options, I would like to see teams going head to head. this however would need an objective. some ideas being capture the flag or a point system for each kill you get or both. these pvp matches should last around 10 minutes and the team with the most points is the winner.
for full release pvp, I would like to see some kind of currency reward system with unique items that can only be obtained through pvp. these items should have good effects but hard to get. it should be put in the form of a loot box with the option to sell to the broker. once an equipment piece is unlocked, in pvp, a player has a chance to drop a equipment piece upon death to level this up (obviously this wont mean the defeated player lost anything as loot is tied to each individual player).
One of the biggest problems I foresee with PvP is dealing with all the creatures on screen in big battles, and also making creatures an actual threat to players. Here are a few ideas for that:
Make the creatures all go faster and do more damage in pvp, but have less life. They need to be able to catch up with the other players and hit them or they will just be an annoyance and nothing else. Make it so the player has to at least throw a few spells at the creatures in order to keep them at bay. Forcing the players to kill the creatures will also make it so less are on screen at one time, which will open up possibilities for more players to play at once.
Make all creatures lose life over time, so they have limited duration. That way you keep the creature count down, but you still make healing your creatures and keeping them alive somewhat valuable, instead of just giving them a fixed duration.
Currently, in PvE creatures are a kind of "set it and forget it". You summon them and then just assume they are doing damage to stuff. And then they die and you don't even really notice. While I would like to see creatures making more of an impact in PvE somehow, I think in PvP it is way more important to do this. The game is very heavily based on creatures, and nailing the interaction with them will ensure a fresh, fun PvP that's not just flinging damage spells at each other.
I do not like the idea of making creatures faster and deal more damage, I think that is prone to creating a few seconds of lag on your computer and resulting to dying. There are also several ways to give your minions greater haste too.
Let's be realistic here, minions seem fine and great even in PvE, but in PvP I think there should be less. I think that what they should do maybe is give mythic creatures human command. So look at heroes of the storm for instance, one of my favourite champions is Misha, her bear you can control it's not easy but if played well the champion is well rewarding, that way lesser minions are still very passive (maybe you can have fewer of them), then you can only have 1 mythic creature and it is like more of a pet than a passive creature.
Also if people are just flinging spells at each other then it could just be that everyone has upgraded everything DPS related to clear missions and skirmishes faster. For instance I like the idea of some sort of stun build and I like the idea of using heals and shields but right now there is no point in them. This will lead to more healer, tank, fighter, assassin archetypes, though what could be missing I feel is some sort of archer types, the game has a lot of AOE range, but there is not very many projectiles, things that are a bit slower, more dodgeable, more precision based, high risk for a miss, high reward in that it really hurts.
PvP must have "some" kind of reward - but not something PVE players will be unable to attain.
PVP must have some kind of limit range : probably no more than 50 point "weightclasses".
PVP should probably let players -if they want to have some number of creatures up before the battle starts (perhaps up to half the creature points in their deck).
PVP needs to disable some of the items/traits. This would include the trait to rise again after death and prevent items like the ring that directs damage to you to a creature.
I agree with pvp offering a reward but it should be a reward only obtainable through pvp. the reason being is that if I play this game just to pvp, there are lots of items I cannot get unless I pvm. pvp should offer a unique currency with a unique reward system. pvp should be evenly scaled. this will insure that you don't wait hours for a match that will never happen and determine which build is actually better. the scale should include max planeswalker level bonuses, level 30 class bonuses in dmg and health excluding the additional perks you get if your character is not level 30 and affects from artifacts and equipment (they keep the current effect that you have).
the creature idea is really interesting. I think this will balance creature builds with sorceries. but they are planning to buff creatures again and this might be over powered in the future but atm, its a good idea. maybe add it to a quick fix so creature builds could have fun while we wait.
the traits are fine. most pvp players will have heart of iron as it is op. in general though I suggest there be a lesser vulnerability affect after immune is up.
I pretty much disagree with all of your points.
The first point is kind of okay though pvp specific gear that is more generic is a way better option. I think the stats on gear should be less specific lets say you want to go to Gavony, okay so put on black magic resist. Though in PvP building black magic resist and taking a 1/5 stab that your opponent may be running black spells doesn't seem good to me.
Weightclasses is a terrible idea, it should clearly be a rating or mmr system, or else I'll scale myself down purposely and only include the most stat efficient bonuses. There should be better rewards for climbing up a ladder, or else it becomes very trivial to hop on to PvP past 1 casual game every few days.
I think no for creatures starting out in play, you shouldn't be able to bank power prior to joining. It would even ruin some builds, because like mine for example plays creatures for on summon effects and not the actual creature itself. Furthermore why even advocate for these kinds of changes in a mode that you don't want to play?
Also I am not convinced that the geomancer trait should be banned, in PvE it is completely useless since you rarely ever die so it might as well be good for something, I did die a few times in a row before so I can see that there is a global cooldown on it and it'll only trigger within a timeframe. I played another game where an item would revive you on death to 30% on CD and it was completely fine for PvP. I'm not entirely sure I would run it over ward of the sanctifier, or even necrotic burst and primal rage could be more superior to it in certain decks, as we accrue more traits and as I'm saying they are all very powerful, then it might not even see play. Also heals are pretty damn strong in this game so as we go deep into pvp I'm pretty sure everyone will run a heal or 2 so 30% life refill might only be worth 10% of your health over the course of the battle, you might have it triggered when you are trying to run away etc etc.
what are the current pvp rewards? i've joined a queue a few times but it NEVER matched me with anyone. i heard aether was at one point but then i saw some patch notes that said that was false..
if anyone has done pvp already, what was it like?