[Feature request] Downgrading
lazarus
Posts: 29 ✭
It would be really great if the game would offer the possibility to downgrade Spells, Equipment and Artifacts. Due to that you would be able to get a significant amount (e.g. between 80% to 90%) of resources (Refined Aether, Gold etc.) spent for upgrading them back.
The reason is that customizing your favorite Loadout consumes a huge amount of resources especially at higher ranks. If you at a certain point decide to change your plan or you simply want to try out different variations, you will have to wait days or even weeks until you are able to do so (again). That's quite frustrating especially when you for example just spent the amount of Refined Aether worth several days for upgrading a single spell and afterwards it turns out that it does not perform that well as/the way you expected.
I know that this suggestion in the first place might not be very popular among developers because that would mean less resource/money sink within the game but from a quality of life perspective of players, it would definitely be a great improvement.
Moreover the amount of the possible return of resources due to downgrading could also be tied to the current level of a certain structure such as the Aetheric Core (structure level 8/9/10 = 70%/80%/90% return of spent resources) so that it is more efficient on higher levels where you need such a feature even more. So there would still be a significant potential resource/money sink present.
Comments
Even if they implemented this, I doubt they'd ever give back more than 50%. I just kinda wish it was possible to earn enough resources to rank up the higher level spells in a more reasonable amount of time.
Currently I'm just leaving most spells at rank 5, because I can't justify the investment of going higher.
Most of the MTG players are collectors and like to switch builds often.
It currently takes 3-6 months to get a 12 cards deck to level 10
To get a full deck in 3 months, you need to reach every single cap every week and spend some zen.
Most MTG players would like to have 2 or 3 builds core builds and 1 or 2 to play around with. So I'm delighted that they added the loadout slot per class. The current problem is the time it takes to finish a build.
Half a year to get some gameplay variety is too long.
Although I agree that this feature (especially if the refund bonus goes up to 90% with a core at level 10), it might not be enough for many players.
And the deck isn't everything. You also need equipment and artifacts to combo with the deck. So switching deck and not having the required artifacts or equipment to combo with the deck is useless.
So, in my opinion, we need a faster progression track and more cosmetic collectibles to avoid that people get bored by always using the same build.
The original idea was about downgrading should basically work for everything (Spells, Artifacts and Equipment). Maybe I was not clear enough towards this. But only this way it would really make sense like you already pointed out.
How can you downgrade an equipment that has random upgrade procs?
Basically the database or whatever else would have to track/store how much Aether and how many pieces of equipment have been used to upgrade it already and take into account these numbers for the refund calculation.
I doubt they keep that information
Me too ...
Aether is dirt cheap. If that's your limited resource, spend some real money on the game. (Seriously, the aether market fell through the floor, and is currently bottomed out. Demand for aether is LOW. If this wasn't the case, there'd be a non-zero amount of zen sitting on the exchange).
The primary limit on getting to level 10 is *spell pages*, not aether. Even Eternal Echoes might be more of a limit than Aether. (I've got a full R9 deck at the moment, and an R10 core/lands, but don't have the spell pages to upgrade a single spell to R10).
That said, R5 (with a maxed out artifact set and a near max gear set) is plenty to play Master, so targeting R5 is a perfectly fine way to play. (And indeed, my next project will be ranking every spell in the game up to R5).
I have 5 different builds, so variety isn't an issue. I just don't fully level anything up. 😅
...but no; Aether is definitely more limiting than spell pages for most people. We shouldn't have to spend real money on a game just to get a decent amount of resources. P2W is bad.
True though, that R5 is sufficient. That's as far as I'm going with any spells currently, because I can't justify the insane Aether costs to raise anything beyond that point
I already bought a decent amount of Zen however it just doesn't feel very rewarding spending it all for Aether and Gold in order to speed up progress. Spending real money ideally should be only necessary for (optinal) Vanity stuff such as costumes and/or skins. Maybe getting some QoL stuff such as more (Loadout, Chracter, Deck etc.) slots might also be real money exclusive, too. However I also understand that only this might not be profitable enough for the game especially in terms of a maybe too niche audience game like Magic: Legends.
Technically this is not P2W in my opinion as your basically are able to reach that milestone with enough time and without paying real money. But as you already pointed out: 3-6 months to max out a single12 cards deck is way too much especially as there are so many cards which of course is good from a variety point of view. Real P2W in my opinion would be real money exclusive items more powerful than any other in game which players who don't spend real money will never be able to receive.
it's not the worst kind of p2w, but you can still get a mechanical advantage by spending money, which is a typical mobile game thing
I suppose it's less serious in a PvE game, at least... if you ignore that a PvP mode technically exists. It's basically an afterthought.
zoNik is a very hardcore player, and he is paying to get aether and spell pages, and it took him more than two months to complete his first level 10 deck.
It's fair to say that a player as avid as him that starts and has an unlimited wallet will be able to complete a full level 10 deck in less time because the planar mana costs were reduced and the cap removed, but this is only helping that kind of players, not the other 99% of the community.
From the POV of a player who plays this game as a full-time job and has no wallet limit, they need to get 575 echos per spell, with a weekly cap of 750 per week; they need 10 weeks to get all the echos required for a full deck.
From the POV of a hardcore player who plays ~30h per week, but isn't spending an insane amount of real money in the game, he will take ~2 months to get the core to level 10, and he will be with the storage cap of 1500 echos because you don't spend that many before rank 9, now he needs eight more weeks to farm the remaining echos.
In total, he will need ~4 months to get a full deck at level 10.
From the POV of the remaining 90% of the population that probably play 10h per week, they will need double the time to get the complete deck.
Great summary. Those numbers seem strange in a game where one of the main points should be playing different builds. However, it is also true that there is no real need to have a full rank 10 deck, you can play master without breaking a sweat with lower rank decks.
I believe this is designed so that there is always something to achieve in the game, the content is still so poor that if maxing everything took a short time, then many people would quit early due to a lack goals to play for. However, I wonder if they have thought about the psycological impact that comes when having to choose between maxing a single build or trying different low rank ones, knowing that maxing all of them will take ages. It's not nice having to give up on getting a rank 10 deck because you want to try other decks, nor is it the hopelessness feeling that comes from knowing the huge amount of time and commitment needed to reach the end. Also, once the novelty wears off, the only goal and reward being upgrading stuff is not that much enjoyable. True, those time barriers will make people pay money to grow faster, but probably there will be some others quitting on frustration.
In my opinion, the game should make it easier and faster to max different builds, while giving plenty of options to play with and upgrade. The more equipment, artifacts and spell we have, the longer we will be playing until maxing everything. The problem right now is the lack of content, but I don't believe that making the game longer by slowing down progress is a good idea to motivate players.
I also don't consider this p2w. The difference is time. The more you spend, the less time it takes, but the ultimate destination is the same for everyone.
The booster pack being the sole source of 3 spells, 3 traits, and 4 artifacts is a much more egregious type of p2w, imo. (Plus the gear, artifacts, and spells available through the empyrean store).
I'd also note I don't plan on spending money to turn zen into aether, because I'm okay waiting and farming it myself. (And Echoes are going to slow me down a lot more than aether will).
i'd like to downgrade my creatures so they die quicker so i can summon them more often so i can make my thought cadence and orb of shiv relevant again.
though its possible today's patch fixed all that, but i can't tell from the patch notes (they don't seem to exist at time of this post)