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The Regeneration Issue
Archived Post
Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
Seems everyone has Regeneration at higher levels. So much so they are able to solo level thier way to 40 and be almost undefeatable durring PvP Games
Suggestion 1 [/B]- Completely remove Regen from the game.
-This will force people to have to group up for normal leveling in PvE thereby extending the time it takes to hit level 40. -This will also prevent players from SOLOING 5 man instances
-This will also make PvP much more fun and based on skill. Less Damage Required to kill people means more kills and more deaths in minigames.
- Minigames will end faster and not approach the time limit everytime
- This will also make the game much more of a challenge and a lot more fun.
- This will also make the support build much more effective
Suggestion 2 - Change Regen from being a selectable passive power to an innate power every character has. Innate regen should scale up based on a given stat such as Recovery or Constitution. I would also suggest making it a base in and out of combat stat rather than increasing based on the number of attacks recieved.
- This will allow people to purchase other passive abilities and add much more variety to gameplay especially in pvp
- This will also allow greater diversity in selecting superstats instead of the 2 or 3 cookie cutters out there now
- This will also help combat the growing problem with people selecting all the "Flavor of the Month" powers
Suggestion 1 [/B]- Completely remove Regen from the game.
-This will force people to have to group up for normal leveling in PvE thereby extending the time it takes to hit level 40. -This will also prevent players from SOLOING 5 man instances
-This will also make PvP much more fun and based on skill. Less Damage Required to kill people means more kills and more deaths in minigames.
- Minigames will end faster and not approach the time limit everytime
- This will also make the game much more of a challenge and a lot more fun.
- This will also make the support build much more effective
Suggestion 2 - Change Regen from being a selectable passive power to an innate power every character has. Innate regen should scale up based on a given stat such as Recovery or Constitution. I would also suggest making it a base in and out of combat stat rather than increasing based on the number of attacks recieved.
- This will allow people to purchase other passive abilities and add much more variety to gameplay especially in pvp
- This will also allow greater diversity in selecting superstats instead of the 2 or 3 cookie cutters out there now
- This will also help combat the growing problem with people selecting all the "Flavor of the Month" powers
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25% recovery every 1 second? HOSHIT.
How about 1% recovery every 1 second. That sounds a little more realtistic.
Your second would break things permanently. Every1 has regen and then any defensive you can take on top of it. no1 would ever die. you complain that ppl are hard to kill now and and you want to give ppl double the defensives they have now????
Did you not think that through at all???
Ok I respeced (yes I'm still calling it that) my toon who is lvl 30 has Regeneration rank 3, and 122 in Recovery, and Regeneration says it does 186 every 2 seconds, 277 to effects every 2 seconds.
1% every 1 second would be 12 hp/sec.
My suggestion would be...(Loading Windows Calculator for this) 37.21 hp/sec (122/100 x 25)
Basically looking at that, and assuming my maths is correct would mean it's still less than what it is currently.
So doubling over what I suggested, making it Recovery 100%/sec would make the Regen do 122hp/sec thats still less. More so because it's still not taking into account the being attacked percentage bonus.
My head hurts...
IE Every 5 seconds you recover 3% of your base HP. (With 2000 HP You would recover 60 HP every 5 seconds)
Or every 1 Second you recoer 1% of your base HP, making it 5% every 5 seconds. Etc. (With 2000 HP you would recovery 20 HP every second)
Ok assuming I'm understanding what you said, 1% of you base HP. I'm assuming this would scale for every level.
At level 30 my base HP is 3,499 (I respeced everything out, and unsloted every upgrade)
That would make the Regeneration 34 HP/Sec
Compared to the 61 HP/sec I have now, not enough.
5% Per base HP/Sec would be more better = 174.95Hp/Sec This is ofcourse still not counting the crappy "Attacking/Being Attack" modifier.
Also 1% of 3500 is 35. 350 would be 10%. But 350HP every second would be over powered anyway. You would heal 350 every 10 seconds if it was at 1% per second.
Which would technically work. How well I don't know. but you could also change the %. Maybe 2% every second, to double it up. That's 700 HP Recovered in 10 seconds, which seems a little OP to me since that's like a complete heal patch every 10 seconds.
You could expand this by making the ranks add an additional .25% HP per rank, so at Regen rank 3 you would recover 1.5% HP. With 3500 HP that would be 52.5 HP per second, 525 HP every 10 seconds.
When I used regeneration it felt like I had a heal every couple seconds, and the only thing that gave me issues were Super Villains.
As it stands now.. I heal for a base of about 180 per second with Regen 3.. If people keep hitting me it'll jump as high as 590. Changing it to a set amount based on a certain stat and making it innate means if I have a low regen rate I'll be getting 25hps.. or a high up to like 100hps. Definitely not this 500-600 unstoppable a second.. especially when combined with Resurgence and Mindful Reinforcement.
I Solo'd Burrial Grounds and Telio's Tower due to regen. No way I should even make it past a set of mobs or be able to solo a "Tough" Supervillan.
As to getting a charge power.. That means everyone will be using the same cookie cutter builds everyone else is. DoTs should be a great help, not a hinderence. If someone throws up Ego sprites or does a supernatural bite on you.. the ticks of the DoT should hurt you.. not increase your regen giving you MORE HP. Say someone wants to make a Necromancer type character. All damage would be DoT and Pet type damage. Right now that's just stupid because you'd never kill anyone in PvP but really that should be the most dangerous type because the damage creeps up on you unexpectedly
Obvious troll is obvious, I mean, really. Remove regen from the game? I'm not going to bite if you're that obvious.
Is it a bit OP in the teens and early twenties? Perhaps, but I think a lot of this is exaggerated due to the fact that most of the other passives are underpowered, even worthless, in this bracket. I would much rather see the other passives buffed than have regen drastically nerfed. That many levels with worthless passives would not make for a very fun game.
The bottom line is, it's a case of getting the maths behind it right. Otherwise this debate will continue til the day we die, or it actually gets tweaked. Preferably the latter...
The reason is, that regen doesn't really scale....with zero rec, it's ok, with really high rec, it's...a little better than ok. Whereas LR and invuln completely suck with low Dex/con/str, but with really high dex/con/str they are extremely good.
So, at low lvls when your checking the passives at lvl 20 with crappy stats, regen is like "OMG, THIS POWER IS SO OP!!!!!"...but at high lvls, all passives are pretty good...(except for pff....pff always sucks)
If you have trouble killing a regen, you should look into your damage output and tweak accordingly. Other powers like PFF need dramatic work. Regen is a bit strong in the mid-levels but definitely weaker in the later tiers.
Powers definitely don't need to be 100% balanced 100% of the time. By taking regen early on, you may have an advantage then, but you take that in lieu of having a much stronger power later on...AKA one of the many tradeoffs you'd have to make. Sure you can retcon it...but it'd be pretty expensive to trade that out at level 40...
someone going immune to everything and waiting afew secs for full hp is stupidly game breaking.
:mad:
What I would recommend for PvP is a set of new skills designed to hinder regeneration (debuffs) and break down other defensive skills in order to make a target easier to dispatch. So when someone is fighting and their defensive skills are being debuffed, they must choose between re-establishing their defensive measures or concentrating on their offensive strategy.
cheers
I did a test with a friend whom was level 16 and took me forever to take him down.. due to regen and I was level 25 at the time
IF you are soloing this content, regen alone is not the reason. I get really sick of people posting that any one power is the only reason that they are able to do things that they think were not intended, because it is always the combinations. Sure there are imbalances that need to be fixed. But, even with the unbalanced mini mines, people were hunkering down behind their block enhancers and/or using regen to stay healthy during the CD.
If you don't believe me try soloing this content using Unarmed Martial for offense instead of whatever you are using.
I do not support this thread. Regen does not need to be removed. It does not need to be reduced by 75%.
It is fine as is.
If anything needs to be done passive-wise, certain other passives need work at low levels, particularly Lightning Reflexes. LR is the only passive that gets worse at low leves when you level unless you replace every piece of dex-granting gear with the current level's best Dex option. How's that for scaling?
They should not kill off the power, one of the d-passives has to be the "best"
Most high lvl players i've talked to have told me at cap LR is #1.
Dps & support passives could stand to get a buff,but remember the patch we had the 1st day of the game? Yeah,i'm praying no one has to go though that nightmare again.
Huh? are you only talking PvP?
Yes, its an easy passive to use, but its not the best at higher levels.
The fact of the matter is that different builds benefit from different defensive abilities more than others. If you think Regen is OP, try fighting a mob that's hitting you for as much, if not more, than you're regenning for, even while blocking. This happens a lot more than people think.
And if this is all about PvP, well, CO should revamp their system anyway, Heroes killing other Heroes isn't very heroic.
Less PvE nerfs due to PvP tweaks, and less PvE nerfs due to idiot whiners, imo.
I guess this is the weekly 'someone I dueled killed me using this power' thread.
When is this mythical time of LR superiority to Regen?
It's not that Regen is game breaking..its that so many other defensive powers suck.
Lightning Reflexes..well, I havent seen it past 23, but it sucks. I saw no difference from not having a passive defense for quite soem time.
Defiance--may as well not exist.
.
.
.
What? Its an infallible plan with a high success rate.
If you think that is true, don't PvP. In PvP you will always have to adapt your build/tactics based on what others are using/doing. Adapt or die.
Yes, regen plus block is probably superior to block plus <insert other passive>. Regen alone is easily countered by lots of choices. In combination with other powers it is more difficult to counter, so it is not 1 specific power, but the combinations.
I agree. I use regen and i can say it does NOT make you unkillable. does it heal you? yes, thus the reason it's called regeneration. big attacks hurt a lot and can kill you, regen heals the small attacks like its supposed to. the tradeoff with regen is the fact you don't get the defense against damage other passives give you. You still take all the damage, you just heal over time afterwords.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
That is because of two things:
1) No DPS.
2) No Shield Breaker (so your opponent could huddle behind their shield and regen back up) or Hold.
Regen is absolutely FINE where it is. The problem is that either you suck at taking it down (no DPS or utility powers), or you can't keep up the pressure. Regen is weak against burst damage. Period. Keep firing at your opponent and they WILL go down. If they don't, YOU are the one doing something wrong.
If they are PVP based, more than likely they will simply just root and block or find someway to "Stall" so regen can heal them up even more.
the problem I've seen isn't regeneration itself, but moves that allow them to keep the regeneration going by avoiding being hit with CC's, KB's, and Teleport. Thus, enabling them to be virtually unkillable.
The only reason why Regen is so overpowered, is because there are so many other moves that help support it.
I can easily blow a regeneration player to half, keeping them there and killing them is another story.
Wolverines regeneration stops working after a point. Simply put. Regen should only regenerate a certain amount of HP, then stop working for a while.
This way it would be similar to Personal Force Shield. And much more balanced.
and change it so it is like Personal Force Field? isnt that the reason not to do it right there? "it's like something else" ? and in what way would it only be similar and not the same besides that you get the extra hitpoints after taking damage, not before?
no i'd rather see a lessening of the healing if you have to change it, not that it needs it. put it at 90% or 85% of what it is or something so it is still useful in PvE.
or to go with the argument that other powers support it too much, let it negate the use of those so you cant use them.
Please stop complaining. If you don't like something, you stop doing it. If you don't like PvP the way it is, stop doing it.
I have to disagree here. The reason everyone has Regeneration is that it seems to work more efficiently than any of the other defensive passives.
it would be a much better idea to make the other passives work properly and on a level with regeneration so that there would be variety out and about in the game.
For instance I have a level 15 martial artist and I have been sticking to that power set exclusively. He has Drunken Master on his energy builder; Floating Lotus Blossom on his kick; Lightning Reflexes rank 2 (maybe even 3 now) and he still gets his butt handed to him when he fights more than three henchmen or two villains at a time. This is the power set that is supposed to be GOOD at tanking. I have put him to the side for now since it's frustrating to play him. Someone told me that you really need a DEX of 150 to get any good benefit out of LR, but I have DEX superstated, talented and equipped where ever I can and I'm only up to 96. I really have lost patience with it.
On the flip side, I have a munitions build who has TK Shield and Regen (lvl 1) and he can literally take on 8 level 3+ Henchmen and has never been defeated by any villain/master villain/Supervillain. Ever. He's level 21 now and unstoppable. He's an EGO/DEX guy, so no huge buffing on the Recovery. He does have a pretty good CON (53 I think), but yeah, he's awesome!
There's an imbalance there.... No need to lower the power level of Regen; they need to increase the power of the others to keep up with it.
A guildie of mine has soloed EVERYTHING up to level 39. In your defense tho it's not solely regens doing, but the COMBO of powers he's using REGEN/TKSHIELD/LASERSWORD. That combo is just stupid.
Personally i think BLOCKING needs to be looked at. After all, it's because of block regen is allowed to do what it does. It's a free, cast less heal. Teaming it with block is what makes it (or appears to make it) OP.
UTTER HORSESHITTE
/quoted for the truth. I have regeneration at lvl 17 and I'm unable to solo 5-man missions and I'm hardly unkillable. People need to learn to play.
Plus, everyone knows that when you're low on health you're a target (talking PvP of course). Nobody cares that your Invul or Defiance gives you better damage mitigation than Regen. All they see is that your health is down to 40% and they'll be all over you. When you're health is full, people are more likely to let you be. With Regen, my health is full more often than not.
You probably whined about minimines being nerfed too, didn't you?
Do something other than spam your endurance builder, or spam tapping your charge up powers. If you're constantly doing 20-60 damagae, and we're healing for 200-300, we still win.
Since when has Regen EVER given damage mitigation? If I take a 5k base hit, it STILL hits for 5k base.
LRs only good at endgame. It doesn't scale well.
Or it scales too well.
Something like that, anyway.
Sounds like regen is broken in iether a duel setting or PvP. In Pve it a neat power,but hardly God-making.
If you have read them all (Like I have) Then remember the episode when he is on monster islands fighting dinos and being poisioned by The Hunter? He explicitly states that his regeneration is working over time and will dimminish if he takes any more damage. This is mentioned on several occasions in different episodes.
But ok yeah I guess it doesn't stop working, but it simply can't keep up with a certain amount of damage. So I'd just like to see that instead of Regen increasing the more damage taken, it should be the strongest in the beginning and then the lower HP you get the weaker it gets.
This suggestion would make Regen too good in my opinion. On my supernatural chick, she gets something like 150 hp/2 seconds currently, at base. Her max ticks are around 400 or so. If I simply started out at 400 hp, it would be far more difficult to get my health into the lower ranges, to make regen less effective. As it is, regen is very weak to high burst damage, *because* it's regen ticks start out low, and don't have the time to scale up and counter the heavy stream of incoming damage. If they started out high, I think it would be much harder to counter Regen with heavy nuke damage.