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Telekinesis Strength
Archived Post
Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
I've been playing around with Telekinesis recently and I have noticed a huge disparity between the physical Strength required to lift an object and the Ego required to lift an object with Telekinesis. Why is it that I have to have 4 times the amount of Ego as Strength to lift the same object? It just doesn't make sense.
The character I'm playing only has around 25 Strength, but he has over 75 Ego. He can lift things physically that he can't even budge with Telekinesis. That just doesn't seem right at all. When it comes to Telekinesis, Ego should be equal to physical Strength needed to lift an object. It should not require me to build up a gargantuan amount of Ego to use effectively.
Also, a Telekinetically lifted object should be able to follow the user around. I can pick up and carry a crate physically to get a better angle on my target. But if I lift something with Telekinesis the target better be in line of sight from where that object was otherwise I don't hit diddly.
In its current state Telekinesis is cute. It's a thematic power that hardly ever comes in useful. It's just not worth picking if you really want to win a fight. With a couple of adjustments it could be a viable power choice.
I'd also like to be able to lift and throw enemies around with Telekinesis, but that would probably be more difficult to implement, so I'll leave that out of this idea for now.
:cool:
The character I'm playing only has around 25 Strength, but he has over 75 Ego. He can lift things physically that he can't even budge with Telekinesis. That just doesn't seem right at all. When it comes to Telekinesis, Ego should be equal to physical Strength needed to lift an object. It should not require me to build up a gargantuan amount of Ego to use effectively.
Also, a Telekinetically lifted object should be able to follow the user around. I can pick up and carry a crate physically to get a better angle on my target. But if I lift something with Telekinesis the target better be in line of sight from where that object was otherwise I don't hit diddly.
In its current state Telekinesis is cute. It's a thematic power that hardly ever comes in useful. It's just not worth picking if you really want to win a fight. With a couple of adjustments it could be a viable power choice.
I'd also like to be able to lift and throw enemies around with Telekinesis, but that would probably be more difficult to implement, so I'll leave that out of this idea for now.
:cool:
Post edited by Archived Post on
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Comments
Say something people!
I'll say something. I just created a character with this power and have to admit to being completely underwhelmed by the throwing power. It's a complete waste of a slot and since my character is still at a low enough level and there doesn't seem to be any obvious improvement on the horizon, it's getting deleted.
Yeah, I picked up telekinesis before the free retcons came out, and was extremely disappointed with it. I haven't used it since I respecc'd, and don't plan to, but I love everything else about my telekinetic guy =P. Telekinesis, the power, is just a huge waste until they work out the kinks.
I haven't experimented with it much myself, but I do remember the power description stating that additional ranks in the power increase the efficiency that your Ego applies towards the lifting capacity and throw damage. IE having 75 Ego at Rank 1 might be like having 20 strength, but at Rank 2 75 Ego might be the same as 75 strength...
After all, I think the general rule for power ranks was that Rank 1 isn't the basic level... it's like, the sub-level. The "I'm only taking this power half-@#!edly" level. Rank 2 is the level at which powers are supposed to be judged, and Rank 3 is the super-powered up version.
Has anyone tried TK at ranks 2 and 3, to confirm or deny my guess?
Really I just cant see wasting all that to lift a box only to have the bad guy walk out of LOS.
STR you can lift and then carry the item with you and use it in melee or range.
TK you can lift 1/4 (1/2, 3/4) that and you cant move it or take it with you and you cant use it in melee the only upside is you can pick something up that is across the room.
STR free just needs stat points
TK takes a power slot and 4 advantage points to become remotely useful in its limited way.
II have not, but it doesn't seem worth it, like Mecha said you have to put a lot more into it just to make it comparable to strength. Even then, telekinesis, the power, seems more of a novelty power anyway, there are ranged powers in telepathy that are much stronger and efficient, and for I'd guess less the sacrifice. Personally, the only appeal of it to me is picking stuff up with your mind and throwing it at people, and even that aspect is somewhat flawed.
I would prefer if Ego = TK Strength straight up at Rank 1 and Rank 2 and 3 raised it slightly and increased the range incrimentally. Currently I don't believe ranking does anything to affect the range of the power, which it should.
:cool:
I haven't tried it, but since everyone can throw, one would assume that a special power that allowed alternative throwing would be stronger, not weaker.
I concur.
:cool:
and, you should be able to pick up a mob and toss him into a wall, that would freaking make my day.
So, you have to spend a power point +4 advantage points to be able to pick things up if you aren't a strength character....
/signed
this needs to be fixed. (not to mention it doesn't follow you, so even if you can pick it up it is mostly useless).
Yeah, this definately needs to change. Considering the point investiture, and how much more effort it is to use, I should think Rank 1 should be a 1:1 ratio compared to strength, Rank 2 should be a 3:2 ratio against it, and Rank 3 should give you double the effect of lifting and throwing with strength.
Errr.... needless to say, BEFORE they make that change they should really adjust the throw damage numbers. Ever been one-hit-KO'd by a colossal object? I have.
Furthermore, I'd like to propose, as a side topic, that if Telekinesis is used while targeting an enemy and not having TK-lifted an object already, it should automatically attempt to lift the heaviest valid object you're capable of lifting within a certain radius of your person and then chuck it at said enemy in one click, albeit with a small increase to the activation time to compensate for what you'd save by targeting objects, lifting, targeting enemies, and then throwing.
This way if the combat has gotten hectic but you're some kind of Super Ego beast and you just happen to be standing next to a truck... well, you know the rest.
I also picked it, tried it, and quickly respecced out of it for all the reasons cited.
Fixes could easily be done to make it work thus:
1) Target foe, tap button, closest object to you gets flung into target for an endurance cost based on weight of object. Charge power to scale up the range from which the heaviest object you can lift will be selected (so you can get that police car rather than the barricade).
2) Target object, tap button, object lifts and comes to hover over your head. Target foe and tap to fling object, as normal. This avoids crappy LOS issues.
3) Scale EGO = STR at rank 1, further ranks increasing range for both TK and hurled objects, and efficiency in lifting heavier objects (x1.25, x1.5 perhaps).
Losing the ability to use objects as melee weapons seems like a fine trade-off to all this.
In general, while we might think TK should let us pick up enemies and move them around, that's more something for the overall power set, which does give repels and the like. So, no need.
The above changes would fix the power completely. Remember: we are spending a precious power slot on something that still needs the super-stat plus items to be useful. Strength just needs the super-stat plus items. All we get for this is convenience, frankly, but that shouldn't be a weaker choice.
--Khanwulf
Rank 1 = 1:1 ego/str, throws only objects
Rank 2 = 1:1 ego/str, can throw henchmen
Rank 3 = 1:1 ego/str, can throw villians
TL;DR - TK's too clumsy to use and feels weak. Changing it into a Tap/Maintain Power would allow more interesting uses. Ranks should increase throwing damage, not lifting strength.
TK suffers because the ONE thing everyone thinks of with this power is tossing guys around, not slowly lifting trashcans to hit the enemy who is closing to hit you.
The problem with this of course is in PVP... I lob generic FOTM build guy around the cage doing damage, and of course range attack him. He cries incessantly on the forums that his prize build is unfairly treated because the TK guy whipped his ***** and he only got a swing half the time.
The whole TK tree is just messed up, the EGO Str doesn't scale well, you can't lob a guy out side of taking force powers, and that is just uncontrolled knockback.
I can also see a problem where the min-maxers get TK as an exploit just to knock folks around and hit them with ranged attacks. This would be hell on MA types.
In my perfect world telekinesis as a power framework would take the TK power and slowly flesh it out with broader TK effects. More on this later, I have to go get dressed for work, so I can earn money and come home in peace and play CO
Telekinesis is just really clumsy, and very useless. I can do much more damage, more effectively without having to get into position to be near the object and in los of the enemy and then mess around selecting targets, by simply attacking with other powers. That being said the power is nothing more than a useless gimmick. (pretty much like all the non-ego blade tk powers)
Theres been a few suggestions how it could be fixed:
1) Id like to see the power automatically pick up the nearest object and throw it, this is a fair trade off for not being able to carry it around, In essence the power would only be usable when there are things nearby. ( I should add that the range on telekinesis is also pitiful)
2) Also it needs to be scaled to the same as strength (plus removing the ranks, the power should be equivalent to strength without spending advantage points).
Even with these changes it would still be questionable if the power is worthwhile, but at least it would balance up more.
Of the suggestions listed i dont think it would be good to have the object float above your head 1st, before throwing it. For me this would spoil the impulsive feel of simply flinging nearby objects at the enemy.
Thanks
DO IT DEVS! YOU KNOW YOU CAN!
Beyond that it would be hard to implament, or at least require more work.
Personally, make it able to pull up the earth platform you ride on for earth flight, and chuck it at people for damage, or target an object to pick up.
Bam, problem solved.
NEXT!
Keep the comments coming. The only way a change will come is if we make ourselves heard.
:cool:
so far just a cool party trick.
:cool:
:cool:
Because its much more impressive to lift things with your "mind" then your hands? I don't see anything wrong with physical strength having an advantage here. That just me. Plus don't think you have to walk right up to it to lift it. Range vs melee radius?
Also that be cool I think if they allow telekinesis to lift people so should might I'd love to grab someone up and hurl them over a building!
bump for the cause.
You don't see anything wrong with someone who has 25 Strength (15 from enhancers) being able to lift the same amount of weight as someone using Telekinesis rank 2 at 85 Ego, being able to carry it around with them so that they can position themselves to actually throw it and then doing more damage than the Telekinesis user on top of that?
Sorry, but that seems severely unbalanced to me considering the Strength user doesn't have to spend any ranks or even characteristic points to do that.
:cool:
Telekinesis is probably one of the worst implemented powers in game. The concept is cool, the graphics are reasonable, but the power is just plain too useless to take, even as a throwaway power for a concept build.
EGO should be on the same scale as STR at rank 1 and the items you lift should follow you around until you throw them. That is the bare minimum the power needs to be worthwhile as an unranked throwaway power.
I think an advantage that lets the base power target enemies would be appropriate. It could work as a weak hold and as long as the target was held, you could throw them for damage (if you throw them at another enemy you damage both). As an alternate implementation, just the ability to throw an enemy that is held by another power would work too.
Just use the power with a target targeted, and if there is a valid object nearby, pick the heaviest one it can throw, and throw it at that target.
Problem solved, quick and fast, and damaging and fun.
What the hell else we gonna use it for? Getting us a cookie while we sit across the room?
1) Sensible auto-targeting (i.e. it should auto-target objects you can lift)
2) Instead of hovering for ten seconds then dropping, the item should hover indefinitely over your head (it can take its time moving there) so you can move somewhere to throw it, the way you can with strength.
:cool:
Throwing stuff in general is lack luster, only object 165+ str are worth throwing and they only one hit one henchmen and in pvp is laughable damage later on.
Call me crazy but if I hurl a car at a group of people it should flatten most of them.
Truthfully I don't care if they can lift the same thing, and in the end they probably can, I could be bias but its nice to see melee having a advantage over range for once.
and untill then I am ore then happy to hurl my semi-truck at your puny muscles RAAA xP~
EDIT:
To be fair tho might as well let them lift object equal to strength. or at the vey least make it so you need rank 3 to lift the heaviest stuff.
Endorsed by Lady Bluestar. Devs, check here.
Yes, you can, if the devs hear our cries.
:cool:
I Am Typiinnngg Wiithh Moyyy Miiinnnddddddddddz
I agree completely! The TK strength mechanics suck. I love the power,but it sucks tobe able to barely pick up a sofa with my 87 EGO.
If there are items around, when you use TK, the game automatically lifts the heaviest object nearby (provided that you CAN lift it, if not, the next heaviest) and throws it at the enemy. No need to target the item, no need to lose your target of the enemy. If there's no item nearby, it rips out a chunk from the ground ala hurl and throws that at the enemy for significantly less damage (So as to not make it more powerful than if you actually had something nearby)
OR!
Keep TK as it is now, except, when used against a live target, it becomes a charged hold, lifting them off the air for 5 seconds. If used again while held, it slams them down to the ground ala the Levitate attack from CoH, a Knockdown attack dealing crushing damage determined by how long the hold had left.. If used against a target with hold resistance or immunity to holds, it skips the hold and goes straight to the knockdown. Or maybe instead of just knocking them down you could select another target while they're held and throw them at that, maybe damaging another enemy or throwing them at a tank or something.
The first option makes it a better attack power, but the second gives it some utility, and some more coolness.
For example, it takes 160 EGO with rank 3 Telekinesis or 80 STR to lift Gigantic weights.
Assuming this is true it would take 600 EGO to lift the biggest weights.
Yeah, pretty harsh, ain't it? We spend a power choice and 4 rank points to be half as good as someone who just builds up their Strength.
at 40, how much ego you tk ppl have? and did anyone tried to go full ego and full rank on power to try lift the titanic objects on pw?
Yeah, but you're only 40 points away, while we are over 300 points away from being able to lift the same object. One 10 point level cap increase and you're golden, while TK users are still struggling to lift Gigantic weights.
:cool:
-shrug-
That's actually what the ranks do right now; without any ranks in TK you can barely lift anything worthwhile.
No, actually it's...
Rank 1 TK = 0.25 Ego to 1 Strength
Rank 2 = 0.33 Ego to 1 Strength
Rank 3 = 0.5 Ego to 1 Strength
IMO, since we have to spend ranks on this power and Strength users don't have to spend anything, it should be...
Rank 1 TK = 0.5 Ego to 1 Strength
Rank 2 = 1 Ego to 1 Strength
Rank 3 = 1.5 Ego to 1 Strength
Since we are ranking up a POWER we should get an advantage over plain old Strength by the time we get to rank 3. We shouldn't still be sub par.
:cool:
but the way it..does not work at the moment is really bad....I mean REEAAAALLLLLYYY bad!
I did suggest a quite plausable suggestion regarding this (that seams to have fallen on deaf ears) and that is using the Ego Surge mechanic to buff the TK power...even if it is short lived.
Think about it like getting really wired or enraged (from a mental sence)...even a suger rush??
See I have to disagree again Black, because those who stack strength tend to be melee focused - thus the few range we get is throw and hurling things at people. After all might say everything is an object to be used against people. Think this is why the dervs have the advantage for strength in the first place.
A anotherr idea then would be - by default TK at rank 1 = same as str, then add in something like a 3 point advantage - causing the object to spin and do an extra 100-150ish damage on top of the standard damage of the object.
If both going lift just make it equal to all so no one complains about why someone gets to be able to lift something the other can't xD