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Release Notes, 6/11
trailturtle
Posts: 5,496 Perfect World Employee
Release notes for 6/11.
Costumes:
- Inverted muscle maps on several costumes have been fixed.
Costumes:
- Inverted muscle maps on several costumes have been fixed.
Post edited by ladygadfly on
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Any word on whether or not the devs are even aware of the problem?
I know isn't or rather won't probably be seen as much and take up most of your time but could give a run of the Arcane Tattoo problem across to the Devs or at least have to glance at what's going with it?
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=282911
It's suppose to be in the default location of Heads/Hair but ends up in Heads/Hats the area for it somehow is gone whenever you re-edit a character with all the AT used.
If this is true, it needs to be fixed. These have been in the game a long time.
It's one file causing all problems with female torso, but as usual Cryptic...
Also, female torso geometry will be ever fixed, or it will just stay broken?
No.
(Why can't we reply with less than 10 characters.)
Now, why don't you pros get hired there so you can show the filthy amateurs how it's done?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Live in the near likeness of luxury while you pull your hair out over
the bugs of those that went before you and get derided for every new thing you do.
Tempting.
Kinda hard to do in a situation where you have no control beyond pointing out what's messed up.
Now merely reporting bugs in a bug report forum is worthy of Sterga's derision.
I think that's what it is, if I understood Gadfly correctly.
I'm afraid it's not, they might've fixed some of the inverted textures, but the model still clips through a lot of chestwear, which it didn't before the patch that messed everything up.
Fixing it would be as easy as someone pointed out on the last thread, switching back the torso model file to the old one, which should be in a backup that should've been done before any change to the Live game, which is a common sense thing to do from a point of view of someone that works in the development of any kind of computer application.
But hey, what do I know, right?
Doing nothing but name-calling is indeed worthy of derision. If one feels that the devs are simply not doing their jobs, well, there's the link to the Careers page in Next's post. Feel free.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
We've already showed them how it's done like three times now. They don't want to fix the one thing causing the issues, apparently.
Also, I'm done until this is fixed properly, as I am now at the point of anger where I want to cause harm to someone.
Snark never dies.
Still broken? Yep, still broken. At least Cowl Tight is. This is getting silly.
-Ogre
No, this is a problem with the actual torso size itself, which breaks any costume pieces that lay directly on the skin (all cowls, tight armor, etc.).
As reported in the latest PTS thread. Still haven't seen anyone with the company address this, got any news?
And also on the jackets and robot arms bodies.
I could overlook the ugly clipping when your toon hunches over but I've found it clips just as bad when she's just standing around on one of my toons while it doesn't on another. It looks like certain body slider settings will determine if it clips or not.
No, but The Ren Center Ring of Lag Bug has existed for years and it is pretty easy to reproduce on PTS and Live...even when you're the only person on PTS...the whole thing....just you and the tumbleweeds.
Also worth mentioning are some powers like those found in the Earth Set and the ever horrific Telekinetic Maelstrom which rarely damage the users but can knock team mates off line or slideshow lag lock them in various instances. Vet Translation: They're the "NEW" Old Ice....except by new I mean replacement since they've been an issue for quite a while now.
As for the pure issue of lag getting worse the longer you play...not so much in my experiences. I will, however, say that the East Coast Servers have had increasing amounts of issues starting back around December-ish across all three of the Cryptic Games and whenever STO and/or NW(especially NW) is getting a patch of any considerable size it's time for The Heroes of Millenium City to find a place to hide because there's a storm a comin most of the time right alongside it.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Memory Leak. It has been there pretty much from the beginning.
So when we are at cowls and basic torso layers, I gonna quote myself.
Since if a basic geometry is tweaked, why to not tweak/add this one costume piece as well?
More Options = More Options. :biggrin:
Also, Bluh put a pretty hefty brick of data right there with pics....please use that information.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Apparently, he didn't test it either before executing the fix.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
The biggest questions I keep asking myself are:
How does a large swath of game assets get accidentally destroyed and saved overtop of the originals with no record of which pieces were affected?
How does the female model itself get accidentally destroyed, go live, and then leave everyone scratching their heads over how to fix it?
How does this happen in a production environment?
Isn't there a detailed changelog? Aren't there backups? Surely a record of development activities exists so it can instantly be tracked down and reverted?
Why is up to the players to blindly track down and find every affected asset if they have any hope of getting things back to normal?
Also that neck only cowl?? NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!! I'm tired of having awesome emblems and tights patterns ruined by the excessive cowl length of the two existing options we have, and using partial face masks eliminates the other face pattern choices.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
I don't take player fixes seriously most of the time since it's all based on assumption and conjecture. Especially when I see devs say stuff that leads me to believe that the "fix" would be a bad idea.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
What'd they say on this method of fixing it? I admittedly haven't been paying the most attention to the PTS/patch release threads, so excuse me if I passed over a message that Gadfly or Trailturtle posted pertaining to rolling back the female upper torso models/textures to before the Variable Robot release.
I could go into more detail about what the player fix is based off on, but even at simple observation of the torso models, it's clear that a bunch of clipping is happening around the neck area with various tighter pieces of costume. The model changed.
It's not like it'd be impossible to players to check, either. How did the extra Jackal head texture and Krampus alternate textures get implemented, by the way?
IMO, you are mostly correct(that 1st bit is completely correct). There are, however, exceptions in that second bit. Now, I can theorize and make educated guesses on a variety of things. Heck, I might even hit the nail on the head and be correct from time to time...but I'm not a game coder. There are people here who do possess those skills and come right out and drop the hard truths. Over the years I have learned to recognize these individuals and appreciate their abilities so when they make the occasional post that, in a nutshell, says,"Hey, if you do X..you fix Y," I am inclined to believe them. But, as you have pointed out, those types of individuals with those particular skills don't tend to start off their presentations with,"Because you poo poo heads are too stupid to figure this out then let me educate you by...."...no, it doesn't work like that.
It is entirely possible that the recent issues thought to be caused by Variable Robot may very well be the symptoms of a larger change to which we are not entirely privy. STO did get new models recently. Now, I am about as close to factlessly making crap up here as you could possibly get...but what if? What if this is the initial phases of something larger and it's just the communication aspect that is sorely lacking? It wouldn't exactly be the 1st time. It likely wouldn't exactly be the 100th time. Just something to consider which could be spot on...or I could be completely wrong.
I do, from experience, know one thing though. Alot of people want this game repaired, updated, upgraded, and to have new shinies(some of which originate from STO/NW(mostly STO) and there have been posts which mention Cryptic Engine Version Issues. Now the way to "fix" that, in the past, is with something called a "Kitchen Sink Patch" which usually brings the lagging game up to speed with it's brothers and sisters. Now, for those of you who might not know what I'm talking about, if you think this lil bit with the costumes is bad...you should likely go out of town for the month surrounding any kind of information from Cryptic that says "Kitchen Sink Patch" cause....it's gonna get super ugly. The KSP, historically, breaks a virtual mountain of things. It's a Biblical Plague of unhappiness BUT it's devastation is usually relatively short and we tend to come out of the other side of the catastrophe stronger than when we entered. Still...this may likely be one of the steps required for actual improvements or one of those Foundry things I keep hearing so much about. So, I guess the real question is, "Are you, the playerbase, ready and willing to walk through the fires?"
Personally...I am. Bring the fire. :cool:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
I know next to nothing about coding or what it really takes to run a game aside from observations and acquiring some knowledge from others that DO know what they are talking about. That being said, I think that communication is a must. Otherwise we are left with our own thoughts and assumptions about what's going on, and you get the results that we currently see in all of the threads on the forums. I for one would love to know about a KSP, so that we can have a light at the end of the tunnel and not continue with the impression that things are just aimlessly in a track of make something, break something else, fix that break another thing and so forth.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Who is being unreasonable, here? This is a rhetorical question.
Its not really blind considering anyone who has really looked at the files and pays attention will know everything that happens in the game and how it works. The data is available to us aside from the raw assets. A break like this DOESN'T happen unless intentional or the one doing it doesn't know squat about the program. The latter is not supposed to be happening with the dev team unless Champions just isn't worth investing in anymore.
Anyone coming into the game seeing this is within complete reason to turn around and consider this game dieing and at no fault of the players and customers.
No, I think Buxom is trying to get me one more step closer to the Monthly Gold Vendor: Tin Foil Hat Unlock. Thanks Buxom. :biggrin:
But really, it's fine to point out problems and be critical of this game....it's also perfectly acceptable, in a non ToS violating manner, for other players to poke fun at players who do it in impolite, accusational, or just downright crude ways.
Food for Thought: Devs are actual people too. For us this is our hobby. For them it is their job. It is how they put food on their tables and "New" Old Cryptic is still kinda new when you get right down to it. It would be lovely if some of the more hotheaded people just cut it out with some of these really really stupid posts and gave them a lil time....while pointing out the broken stuff, of course, because information is still information. You're not going to insult them to the point where they fix the game just so they can turn and say,"Oh yeah, didn't think I could do it? Well, I SHOWED YOU!! HA!"
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
You don't know the file structure, the asset database structure, or the encoding. You don't know how the engine loads the information, accesses it, communicates it between server and client, or how any of that links together. You don't know how the models are built, how the morph targets are handled, or any of the technical details of the graphics processing.
You are an end user. What you see is the end of an enormous and complicated process, any step of which could go wrong, and could produce identical error results. You don't know what went wrong, or how, or why. All you see is that something is wrong. It could be bad version control. It could be that someone left an endline out of a table. It could be that somehow the coordinates for a vertex have been corrupted and the engine can't load the object that the corrupted mesh is associated with. It could be that a new addition pushed the table entry off the end of what the engine is set up to recognize. It could be that someone accidentally changed the name of the object itself, but not the name that the character asset handler looks for. It could be any of these things, or several of them, or things I haven't listed.
But, by all means, keep thinking you have a clue what the problem is. Makes it a hell of a lot easier to weed out the people willing to learn how to do QA from the armchair developers who will refuse to accept that they don't know any given game better than the people who made it. Also means I can do my job, rather than get stuck trying to teach someone who refuses to learn.
"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters." - Albert Einstein
The devs appear that they don't know any better than the players at this point.
My overall point is that we get excited that we get a dedicated team and that it promises a great future. And when we finally get somewhere with them we lose that team and get dumped onto another team with the same promises and the same long wait for results. We're going 360 here and it won't be the last time. Can't wait to hear about the next team we get dumped on in 8-12 months when progress is finally made again. What will that new team break or remove next?
On the other hand, if I consistently get bad food from a particular restaurant, I'm going to find a different restaurant. I'm not defending a bad cook, here... but that cook probably still has a far better idea what the problem is, given his kitchen access and all, than some schmuck at a table.
Either way, nice backpedal. You're probably better off sticking to pointing out the problems and sharing your opinions of them than theorizing how and why they're happening, though. Much less chance of being called on it by someone with actual industry experience who happened to wander through while seeing if the total absence of any conversation in MC Zone was due to a bug, or if it was just due to a certain game that shall remain nameless eating up all the chatty people.
"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters." - Albert Einstein
1. You said "intentional."
2. There are a very very small handful of players who may very well know what is actually going on...but I wouldn't stretch that to "players." I have had people explain to me the actual issues...and I still barely half know what they were actually talking about once it gets down to the specifics.
3. Your overall point, however, I cannot actually disagree with to be completely honest. At this level of history and communication it does demonstrate, IMO, an actual legitimate concern/fear. I wish for you to turn out to be completely wrong about this(me too for that matter), and I suspect you wish the same, but it comes down to yet another round of "wait and see."
Aes,
If the oven is broken then any real "chef" would have a repairman there immediately...unless they're just a "cook." While I do appreciate your insight into this considering it's your profession it does actually come down to a much much simpler issue of the guy not wondering which factors lead to his soup sucking....only being unhappy that his soup does suck. It's easy to say,"Try the Soup House down the street," but some people like the decor/ambiance/history and such of this place and would just like the oven fixed. Also, the Michelin Guide doesn't likely care about the broken oven...the chef just isn't getting a star.
So while I am getting rather tired of the accusations, insults, and overall lack of basic tact that the forums have been displaying moreso recently than before....the baseline sentiment is somewhat understandable really.
Also,"Time" and "Wait" are becoming my new cringewords for CO because I both think they're relevant...and hate myself a lil more every single time I type them.
P.S.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
My issue is entirely with people somehow magically knowing exactly what the problem is, and how to fix it. My problem is with the people essentially claiming that because they've eaten food, they know how to cook it, and why food sometimes doesn't taste good.
Annoyed that stuff is still broken? Fine, so am I. Unhappy that so little appears to be happening to fix the issues? Great, I agree. Feeling like Cryptic is that boyfriend or girlfriend who keeps promising that they can change, really they can, but never does, until you finally you're so sick of the flakiness and insincere promises that you dump them? Me too.
Beyond that? Theories about why things are how they are, or what broke, etc? Marsh gas.
Also, want to know two of the best ways to contribute to a development team burning out and no longer caring about the project they're on? Abuse and claiming to know better. Why is this? Because like has been said, developers are humans, too. How would you feel?
("You" is being used in a general, non-specific sense, not as an indicator of any specific poster.)
"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters." - Albert Einstein
And now they have adjust everything to the new mesh.
Can't really imagine anyone going through every female torso piece and opening it just to see how it's made and flip normals by accident.
But it will take some time until everything is replaced, lol...
Agreed, and players should remember that. However, the 'how would you feel?' rule can only be stretched so far.
If I'm putting myself in a dev's shoes, yes, I would feel bad if people were saying I was horrible and evil and incompetent, etc. However, I as a human would also take the time to communicate my mistakes, tell customers what is going on, acknowledge that I am aware of problems, etc. So I can't really say how THESE humans would feel under criticism, because clearly they approach things from an entirely different perspective than I do. If I was a human who made a mistake at my job that angered many people, said nothing about it for several weeks while the problem persisted, and repeatedly avoided direct communication with customers about what was going on, I might also understand that those humans will get pissy before long. Who knows.
So, if devs burn out from abuse and players' claims that they know better, customers burn out from getting absolutely no meaningful communication. I try to treat humans with respect, but I also expect a human to let his/her customers know what is going on when stuff starts breaking. Fair?
"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters." - Albert Einstein
You are assuming that those who claim there's an "easy, simple" fix have perfect knowledge. That is a poorly-based assumption, and one that you might want to examine before basing any further arguments upon it.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Two questions: Where have they said this? And why is the new mesh obviously faulty? I mean, you can just *look* at the shoulder blades on the back and see sections of the mesh bulging out in impossible ways - it's not even just that it clips through tight armor pieces, it's just flat-out improperly shaped to start with.