If anything, this will renew the viability of Kickstarter. This "bubble" where people were getting cash for doing nothing needed to be popped, so that the bubble of people getting money to make things could grow back to full size.
Now that people know that there are consequences for not following through on the thing people are giving you money for they'll be less wary about forking over that money.
This will also force anyone seeking to use Kickstarter to be proffesional, to think, to plan, and to be realistic. No more of this "We're going to make a Halo-quality Halo-sized game in just four months!" nonsense.
Maybe next they could take a look at Steam and its greenlight thingy? At the very least impost a "must have a demo" requirement... http://store.steampowered.com/app/331200
No, it's more like the ones who say $15 a month is too expensive, because that cuts seriously into the ramen budget. One of my nieces owns a hairand nail salon, and that leaves things tight enough for her that if $31 came up missing, she'd be scouring the city and interrogating everyone she knows, because that can buy several bottles of conditioner...
On the other hand, they also aren't the sort of folks who tend to back Kickstarters, because again, ramen budget.
However, you have to acknowledge that Joy does have a point in that there are people out there who lead what us Ramen folk would consider luxurious lifestyles while freaking out over "a game company daring to charge a dollar for something in their cash shop" or who "pirate games to combat those greedy corporations" etc etc nonsense etc....
If anything, this will renew the viability of Kickstarter. This "bubble" where people were getting cash for doing nothing needed to be popped, so that the bubble of people getting money to make things could grow back to full size.
Now that people know that there are consequences for not following through on the thing people are giving you money for they'll be less wary about forking over that money.
This will also force anyone seeking to use Kickstarter to be proffesional, to think, to plan, and to be realistic. No more of this "We're going to make a Halo-quality Halo-sized game in just four months!" nonsense.
Maybe next they could take a look at Steam and its greenlight thingy? At the very least impost a "must have a demo" requirement... http://store.steampowered.com/app/331200
However, you have to acknowledge that Joy does have a point in that there are people out there who lead what us Ramen folk would consider luxurious lifestyles while freaking out over "a game company daring to charge a dollar for something in their cash shop" or who "pirate games to combat those greedy corporations" etc etc nonsense etc....
Off topic but did anyone else notice Spinny just posted two posts without using over complicated emotes (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
No, it's more like the ones who say $15 a month is too expensive, because that cuts seriously into the ramen budget. One of my nieces owns a hairand nail salon, and that leaves things tight enough for her that if $31 came up missing, she'd be scouring the city and interrogating everyone she knows, because that can buy several bottles of conditioner...
On the other hand, they also aren't the sort of folks who tend to back Kickstarters, because again, ramen budget.
Sounds like the type who wouldn't be playing games either.
Sounds more like the guy didn't know what he was doing / had unforeseen complications and the whole project blew up in his face. Most people aren't bad or looking to scam anyone.
That part about him paying rent with the project money... What do you think the devs here at Cryptic do with the money we spend on CO? They pay their rent with it. Among other things. I don't see that as a frivolous expense but as part of the whole paying someone to be able to actually work on their Kickstarter project.
Here is the Divinity: Original Sin postmortem (GDC2015). It talks about the problems they had with funding and other behind the scenes crap they had to deal with.
Sounds more like the guy didn't know what he was doing / had unforeseen complications and the whole project blew up in his face. Most people aren't bad or looking to scam anyone.
That's the main reason I haven't done a Kickstarter for an RPG/board game thing I made. I honestly don't think I could handle the business side of things.
That part about him paying rent with the project money... What do you think the devs here at Cryptic do with the money we spend on CO? They pay their rent with it. Among other things. I don't see that as a frivolous expense but as part of the whole paying someone to be able to actually work on their Kickstarter project.
That kind of thing only flies if you tell your backers that that's what they're backing. They usually give you a breakdown of where the money goes. "X% goes to living expenses because I can't do all this work while sustaining a job." If that's not in there, then you shouldn't spend project money on that.
What people expect the money to go to is actual development costs, like printing and packaging. No one should assume that backer money should be spent on anything but the product, directly.
Sounds more like the guy didn't know what he was doing / had unforeseen complications and the whole project blew up in his face. Most people aren't bad or looking to scam anyone.
That part about him paying rent with the project money... What do you think the devs here at Cryptic do with the money we spend on CO? They pay their rent with it. Among other things. I don't see that as a frivolous expense but as part of the whole paying someone to be able to actually work on their Kickstarter project.
Except for the niggling little fact that we're not paying into CO to get the game up and running. It already is running, so they can pretty much spend the money they get from us however they want. However, with Kickstarter, that money is supposed to go into the project that's proposed to be made. It's supposed to pay for whatever production costs are needed to to turn it into an actual product. No one expects to be paying someone's rent and groceries through Kickstarter, that's not what it's for. Once the Kickstarter is made into an actual product to be sold on a market, then the person can use whatever profits he makes however he likes.
Isn't it hypocritical to say a Kickstarter shouldn't pay for a dev's living expenses while large studios can totally waste money however they want? Not being homeless is a critical part of development. Sounds more like unrealistic expectations.
Fraud is deliberate. This guy just seems to have had his project blow up in his face, not intentionally scam people.
Isn't it hypocritical to say a Kickstarter shouldn't pay for a dev's living expenses while large studios can totally waste money however they want? Not being homeless is a critical part of development. Sounds more like unrealistic expectations.
Fraud is deliberate. This guy just seems to have had his project blow up in his face, not intentionally scam people.
But again, it's not a baseline, to-be-expected thing. You need to tell people that this is part of where the money is going. There's plenty of people who run Kickstarter campaigns that are already running a full-time job and only need the extra scratch for project-related expenses. Is it cool for this guy to spend all the money on the project, but not the next guy, who spent half of it on living expenses, and that hurt the quality of the final product?
Isn't it hypocritical to say a Kickstarter shouldn't pay for a dev's living expenses while large studios can totally waste money however they want? Not being homeless is a critical part of development. Sounds more like unrealistic expectations.
Fraud is deliberate. This guy just seems to have had his project blow up in his face, not intentionally scam people.
It blew up in his face because he was using money given to him under the understanding that he'd use it on his project to pay his personal living expenses. And either way, that's fraud because he breached everyone's trust.
Isn't it hypocritical to say a Kickstarter shouldn't pay for a dev's living expenses while large studios can totally waste money however they want? Not being homeless is a critical part of development. Sounds more like unrealistic expectations.
Fraud is deliberate. This guy just seems to have had his project blow up in his face, not intentionally scam people.
The large studio isn't asking us for money before the product was ever made. When we give them money, they hand us the product - that's why they can do whatever they want with that money, because they've already fulfilled their promise and have no more obligations to us.
When we give the kickstarter money, all we get is a promise that we will eventually be handed the product. At that point they are obligated to us until they deliver on that promise. That's why it's important for them to explicitely outline everything they're going to do so that we can make an informed decision on whether or not to take this risk. They need to get our approval on what they're going to spend the money on because we want to know if the risk is worth it. We get to say what the money should and shouldn't be used for because we're the ones giving that person money for just a promise that they'll try to get the product to us. If we disapprove of how they're going to spend the money then we're within our rights to deny them our money - if they didn't inform us of exactly how they were going to spend their money then they never gave us the chance to make an informed decision; if they're allowed to do that, then we have to look at every Kickstarter as potentially lying to us. With the amount of money involved, that's a huge issue.
So no, it's not hypocritical. It's not even close.
Isn't it hypocritical to say a Kickstarter shouldn't pay for a dev's living expenses while large studios can totally waste money however they want? Not being homeless is a critical part of development. Sounds more like unrealistic expectations.
Fraud is deliberate. This guy just seems to have had his project blow up in his face, not intentionally scam people.
The difference-maker here is clearly the fact that the guy got $122,874 when the target was $35,000. That's a nearly a whooping $80,000 extra money he had while also considering the fact that the backers waited for three whole years, for a physical board game to be made. It's far from being a complicated thing to make when compared to video games. Anyone with any sense in their head would have questioned why it would take three years to sculp some miniature models and fabricate board / cards along with artwork that aren't big in scale at all.
I think the backers wouldn't have cared one bit about how he used that extra 80 grand if he actually pushed the game out within a reasonable period of time. I think a year would have been the longest I'd have given if I was a backer.
That's the main reason I haven't done a Kickstarter for an RPG/board game thing I made. I honestly don't think I could handle the business side of things.
That kind of thing only flies if you tell your backers that that's what they're backing. They usually give you a breakdown of where the money goes. "X% goes to living expenses because I can't do all this work while sustaining a job." If that's not in there, then you shouldn't spend project money on that.
What people expect the money to go to is actual development costs, like printing and packaging. No one should assume that backer money should be spent on anything but the product, directly.
Well you can't please everyone. Surprised nobody has even thought that our games cannot be 100%. It's impossible to say so. I think the least we can get is probably 70 or 80%. Of course there will always be people complaining about something at somepoint regardless of said release of whatever it maybe.
That aside decisions must be made and made for majority(even if the minority would say otherwise).
Comments
Now that people know that there are consequences for not following through on the thing people are giving you money for they'll be less wary about forking over that money.
This will also force anyone seeking to use Kickstarter to be proffesional, to think, to plan, and to be realistic. No more of this "We're going to make a Halo-quality Halo-sized game in just four months!" nonsense.
Maybe next they could take a look at Steam and its greenlight thingy? At the very least impost a "must have a demo" requirement... http://store.steampowered.com/app/331200
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
However, you have to acknowledge that Joy does have a point in that there are people out there who lead what us Ramen folk would consider luxurious lifestyles while freaking out over "a game company daring to charge a dollar for something in their cash shop" or who "pirate games to combat those greedy corporations" etc etc nonsense etc....
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Off topic but did anyone else notice Spinny just posted two posts without using over complicated emotes (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Sounds like the type who wouldn't be playing games either.
That part about him paying rent with the project money... What do you think the devs here at Cryptic do with the money we spend on CO? They pay their rent with it. Among other things. I don't see that as a frivolous expense but as part of the whole paying someone to be able to actually work on their Kickstarter project.
Here is the Divinity: Original Sin postmortem (GDC2015). It talks about the problems they had with funding and other behind the scenes crap they had to deal with.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
That's the main reason I haven't done a Kickstarter for an RPG/board game thing I made. I honestly don't think I could handle the business side of things.
That kind of thing only flies if you tell your backers that that's what they're backing. They usually give you a breakdown of where the money goes. "X% goes to living expenses because I can't do all this work while sustaining a job." If that's not in there, then you shouldn't spend project money on that.
What people expect the money to go to is actual development costs, like printing and packaging. No one should assume that backer money should be spent on anything but the product, directly.
Except for the niggling little fact that we're not paying into CO to get the game up and running. It already is running, so they can pretty much spend the money they get from us however they want. However, with Kickstarter, that money is supposed to go into the project that's proposed to be made. It's supposed to pay for whatever production costs are needed to to turn it into an actual product. No one expects to be paying someone's rent and groceries through Kickstarter, that's not what it's for. Once the Kickstarter is made into an actual product to be sold on a market, then the person can use whatever profits he makes however he likes.
This was fraud, pure and simple.
Fraud is deliberate. This guy just seems to have had his project blow up in his face, not intentionally scam people.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
But again, it's not a baseline, to-be-expected thing. You need to tell people that this is part of where the money is going. There's plenty of people who run Kickstarter campaigns that are already running a full-time job and only need the extra scratch for project-related expenses. Is it cool for this guy to spend all the money on the project, but not the next guy, who spent half of it on living expenses, and that hurt the quality of the final product?
It blew up in his face because he was using money given to him under the understanding that he'd use it on his project to pay his personal living expenses. And either way, that's fraud because he breached everyone's trust.
The large studio isn't asking us for money before the product was ever made. When we give them money, they hand us the product - that's why they can do whatever they want with that money, because they've already fulfilled their promise and have no more obligations to us.
When we give the kickstarter money, all we get is a promise that we will eventually be handed the product. At that point they are obligated to us until they deliver on that promise. That's why it's important for them to explicitely outline everything they're going to do so that we can make an informed decision on whether or not to take this risk. They need to get our approval on what they're going to spend the money on because we want to know if the risk is worth it. We get to say what the money should and shouldn't be used for because we're the ones giving that person money for just a promise that they'll try to get the product to us. If we disapprove of how they're going to spend the money then we're within our rights to deny them our money - if they didn't inform us of exactly how they were going to spend their money then they never gave us the chance to make an informed decision; if they're allowed to do that, then we have to look at every Kickstarter as potentially lying to us. With the amount of money involved, that's a huge issue.
So no, it's not hypocritical. It's not even close.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The difference-maker here is clearly the fact that the guy got $122,874 when the target was $35,000. That's a nearly a whooping $80,000 extra money he had while also considering the fact that the backers waited for three whole years, for a physical board game to be made. It's far from being a complicated thing to make when compared to video games. Anyone with any sense in their head would have questioned why it would take three years to sculp some miniature models and fabricate board / cards along with artwork that aren't big in scale at all.
I think the backers wouldn't have cared one bit about how he used that extra 80 grand if he actually pushed the game out within a reasonable period of time. I think a year would have been the longest I'd have given if I was a backer.
Well you can't please everyone. Surprised nobody has even thought that our games cannot be 100%. It's impossible to say so. I think the least we can get is probably 70 or 80%. Of course there will always be people complaining about something at somepoint regardless of said release of whatever it maybe.
That aside decisions must be made and made for majority(even if the minority would say otherwise).