The Mind has been spectacular a few times through its history. It's been nerfed each time. Even at 40, now, it's pretty solid. But dang, does it take a bit to get there. Having it at 40, I've seen a bit of use from it. Nothing near what it should be, though. I guess that's more my beef.
The fact that it heals well is secondary to the fact that it's the cc AT. The fact that it's the CC AT in most cases works against it. This thing is decent in spite of any efforts that have been made to correct that fact. I feel like the best way I can sum up The Mind is "anything you can do, the celestial AT can do better".
FYI? The Void freaking rocks. Breath of fresh air, after that last leveling run. I'm loving this thing. Con hybrid dps threat avoiding self healer? Yes plz. More of that.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
When I'm asked which free support AT is the best, I'll honestly tell them it's the Mind.
I have to say I disagree, having played both a Mind (Mindseye) and a Radiant (Medic). The Radiant's CC is possibly even less useful than the Mind's, given that it doesn't even come into play until level 35 (by which time many of your enemies will be immune to it), but its healing powers are much greater, and its damage isn't half bad either. (Besides, it's just so much fun to watch that giant column of the wrath of the gods descend upon your enemies!)
The Mind's powers at lower levels are more than has been implied by some - I'm particularly fond of combining Ego Sleep and Ego Sprites*, to weaken enemies and outright take down some of them before the fight proper even begins - but after a time it starts to bog down a little, as every holding power you try is swiftly broken either by the foe struggling free or your teammates hitting them with splash damage that doesn't hurt them much but does release them. And holds really are where this AT is supposed to shine.
*(The key to Ego Sprites is to fire three off as rapidly as possible, then renew them every time they wear off. Some fights can be cleared with nothing but Ego Sleep and Ego Sprites, if you just keep your targets all Sprited up.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Hm. At the current state of ego storm, I wonder if nightmare might actually be a better level 35 choice. Pretty much any dedicated healer is terrible (or at least, tear your hair out boring) to level, so it's hardly surprising that the mind is that way too.
The friend I usually do missions/alerts/rampages with has both a lvl 40 Mind and Soldier. Against Gravitar and Fire and Ice the soldier just dies, repeatedly. I always have to bring along one of my healers when he wants to use his Soldier. His Mind can survive most of the content fine, now that he has key binds set up to self target himself with Mental Reinforcement and Empathic Healing, plus the AoRP. Agree that Ego Hold and Sleep are not that useful once you hit 40, unless you solo stuff. Yes, a rez of some sort would sure be nice.
What can make the Mind frustrating is the fact that it's not a dedicated healer - that's just a sort of side-line for the AT. It's supposed to be dedicated to CC. Which is an issue for quite a lot of the game.
I'm running a Mind mostly to get a feel for how the powers work; one day I'll feel comfortable enough with them to work them into a FF build, and then I'll be able to go to town on the bad guys with them.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
It has an assload of crowd control powers. Even it's energy unlock is all about the control.
What Sterga said. Just as the Behemoth is all about bashing things and its powers support that concept, and just as the Inferno is all about burning things and its powers show that, so the powers of the Mind show that it's all about the control.
And like I said, CC has issues in a lot of the game, meaning the Mind has issues too. It can be a god - in the right place and the right time. In the wrong place and the wrong time, it can be a gimp. The hard part is figuring out ahead of time which is which...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Mind description that used to be on Cryptic's site until ARC happened:
The Mind
Support
You have tapped into powerful psychic energies. You use your mental might to lash out at opponents and reach into their psyches to make their darkest nightmares real.
The Void is another of the ATs that gains most of its effectiveness from very specific building. Built just so, it's pretty versatile, and can even accomplish some limited tanking. Built even slightly incorrectly, it's a bit of a nightmare. Most importantly: even at 40 it has severe energy issues unless you plan ahead. End PSS can mitigate this quite a bit, but to be honest? It's a bit disappointing having to spec THAT heavily in something the AT should be able to handle on its own. Readiness and kickback help to some degree, and at least make it more playable. END mastery... Ew. I took End mastery on something. I drank half a gallon of bleach and then scrubbed myself with some steel wool over that one. Still feels dirty. I had to give 2 of my alts strafing run and 2 gun mojo to make myself feel better.
Note, however, that a pet-centric version of this AT *can* work. Nothing I'm saying applies to that version. I'da ran it myself, but there are a few alert bosses that just EAT PETS ALIVE, so just noping all over that one. It was a service to the community, really. As well, there's a very fine line between "can" and "does". This isn't an AT I'd suggest trying it with, I had a friend try the same a while ago and yeah. Deleted! Could make for a fun let's play video, though.
Ok, so nuts and bolts. I went the Ebon Rift/Lifedrain route, because permanent pets eat a chunk of your energy right off the top, and lifedrain is just freaking awesome. Rift's pull, however... Yeah I think someone nerfed that when I wasn't paying attention. The AOE dps on it is pretty low as is, but without the pull effect doing a damn thing I feel like this slot was a bit of a waste. So, as a second option, I snagged "dark displacement" on Shadow Embrace. Baelogventure suggested that, and it's a pretty darn good method of hard crowd control. The knock has a fantastic habit of interrupting mob attacks (especially charges), which makes survival a lot easier all across the board. Note, however, that dark displacement is the knock DOWN. Fatal Allure is the biggest waste of points since Accelerated Metabolism.
The spec trees on this thing helped. Guardvenger did a fair bit to stack up the offense and defense, which is good because lifedrain is pretty stupid on the threat scale. However, there is a caveat. Like the build, you really don't have a lot of flexibility in spec tree choices. The "blast does X" powers are pretty damn silly, because none of your attacks are really high-damage nuke of doom style powers. Sure, an argument can be made for Ebon Ruin, but even then we're talking more for the secondary effect than the raw damage. I *guess* guardian mastery could be used to make a charged shadow blast spammer, but if you're doing that it might be time to have a sit down. Just... You know. Evaluate those priorities a bit. Maybe consider using premade builds for a while.
It might sound like I'm hating on this AT, and for a bit there I really did struggle with enjoying the gameplay, but in the end I feel like what I was grappling with most had nothing to do with it in particular. What my real beef was, and I'm encountering it more and more as I level, was an issue of false options. If you build this thing without knowing the mechanics, or even using intuitive design on just about any other character, you are going to fail. It will be frustrating, you will delete the character, and if you're new (and just spent money on this thing) it might drive you away from the game. And in this case it's not just "maybe lower dps a bit", if you take Void Horror, Life Drain, and no energy stacking perks? Nothing will help you, you WILL be sucking air less than 2 seconds into the fight. And you'd probably be right to question why they're selling this broken mess in the first place. BUT, if you do know the right setup, the AT's easy as hell. One of the best. This is a flawed meta that I really wish would get looked at. I field a *lot* of questions about how to run or build certain ATs, and most of them come from this design style. I'm not gonna dock The Void in particular for it, but I do feel like this is a conversation that we should be having. How do we make the ATs evenly powered, but at the same time allow for choices that won't flat out cripple them?
As for the costume, I dunno. I just thought it looked awesome. I wanted a dark sorcerer type, since I don't do a lot of fantasy characters. I also wanted to mess with some of my rarer costume bits, since I don't get to use stuff like the kiga face or val's shoulders often. I love the way he came out, might be one of my favorite looks at this point.
Advantages:
- Self heals. It's got 2 options that both do the job rather well.
- Survivable. Con SS, defensive specs, Fear, the *best block in the game*... This thing comes very well stacked to survive.
- Debuffs and Control. Fear's amazing, your tank will thank you. Ebon Ruin does some fantastic things to anyone that wants to self-heal (hi, Ao'. I'm talking about you). Shadow Embrace is a fantastic crowd-interrupter, which can literally save half of a life bar of damage. And, best of all, Grasping Shadows is definitely a hold that exists in the Champions Online massively multiplayer online role playing game! It is definitely a power people have a choice to use!
- Good AOE dps. Even only at R2, Shadow Embrace is a very good power.
- Cool looking powers. I know, opinion, but yeah. My review, so if you don't like it feel free to send me an angry tell that I won't read. (ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง
Disadvantages:
- Needs to be built a very certain way in order to work properly.
- High threat, for a dps hybrid. Especially considering the form is SUPPOSED to offer threat mitigation. I feel like something's busted here.
- Ebon Rift is chindogu. Buff plz, it looks so cool.
- Have you heard that Grasping Shadows is a power you can select in the Champions Online massively multiplayer online role playing game? Because I am here to tell you, Grasping Shadows is indeed a power you can select in the Champions Online massively multiplayer online role playing game. It certainly does things that look like a power. Or, you know, a bad Japanese cartoon. I mean, I've heard that at least. I don't understand your animales and your pokeymint and what have you. MURRICA. Anyway, that power sucks **** through a straw. That is what I'm getting at here.
Rating:
8/10
Because when you get right down to it, if built correctly, this *is* one of the best ATs. I'm gonna throw caution to the wind here and judge it on it's potential, because when it's good it's VERY good. So the strong disclaimer here is "read a guide". Or just send me a mail in game, I can make suggestions.
One thing that would make it better:
I'm torn here. I'd say "a dev pass", but it almost feels like a cop-out. Thing is, some of the powers are either subject to power creep (and therefore not as great as they used to be), or just generally need an overhaul. Energy costs need a tweak, and the energy unlock as it stands is frankly just sad. If you held a gun to my head and made me choose one thing, I'd take it away Jackie Chan style, because I'm awesome. However, assuming that didn't happen, I'd probably say the energy unlock is the one thing that could use the biggest tweak. If it gave double the energy it currently does, I still might not think it's overpowered.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
I have to disagree about Grasping Shadows being a terrible power. I've got that power on two of my toons and find it to be a nice AOE hold, plus DoT if you take the advantage. I'll agree that it's got a long charge-up, but I can deal with that.
My beef with it is that while a decent enough aoe power with a cool effect? Yeah, the charge. EVERYTHING IS DEAD by the time it fires off. CC in this game needs to be a bit faster. That power would rock if it worked like ebon void does, maintain that lasts twice as long as you maintain it. Also, it should dot anyway. Lots of CC does.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Aaaaah Void~ I remember playing this AT during the ATs Rotation Program and I loved every moment with it~
Honestly I like Grasping Shadows, I have a Darkness-Necromancer-Debuffer Build on the making that can take advantage of it and stay in theme
A Paralyzemove that can Trigger Pre's Vulnerability, Sentinel's Wither, Overseer's Trapped and Sentinel Mastery
The biggest Disadvantage is how FREAKING LONG it takes to fully charge the power as you said without the option to just TAP it... MEANWHILE Mental Storm is an AoE Paralyze TOO and can Trigger all those SPEC Debuffs by a TAP without being fully charge because FML!
Making Grasping Shadows USELESS CHOICE ...
WTF CRYPTIC?
Grasping Shadows and many other CC moves NEED to work on TAP like Mental Storm
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
okay, I know this is a bit off topic for the thread, but what helmet/head/item/mask/etc. are you using in this picture? It's driving me crazy trying to figure it out.
The problem with CC is that they made the Hold HP Static and Manipulator to increase the Duration, if they brought the Hold HP scaling back with PRE hold strength and Support Role/Manipulator, you could get some awesome CC going again to compete with power creep.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Comments
Aw yeaaaaaaaaaaaah.
The fact that it heals well is secondary to the fact that it's the cc AT. The fact that it's the CC AT in most cases works against it. This thing is decent in spite of any efforts that have been made to correct that fact. I feel like the best way I can sum up The Mind is "anything you can do, the celestial AT can do better".
FYI? The Void freaking rocks. Breath of fresh air, after that last leveling run. I'm loving this thing. Con hybrid dps threat avoiding self healer? Yes plz. More of that.
RIP Caine
ATs don't have to be/shouldn't be good at everything, just at their designated roles.
The Mind's powers at lower levels are more than has been implied by some - I'm particularly fond of combining Ego Sleep and Ego Sprites*, to weaken enemies and outright take down some of them before the fight proper even begins - but after a time it starts to bog down a little, as every holding power you try is swiftly broken either by the foe struggling free or your teammates hitting them with splash damage that doesn't hurt them much but does release them. And holds really are where this AT is supposed to shine.
*(The key to Ego Sprites is to fire three off as rapidly as possible, then renew them every time they wear off. Some fights can be cleared with nothing but Ego Sleep and Ego Sprites, if you just keep your targets all Sprited up.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I'm running a Mind mostly to get a feel for how the powers work; one day I'll feel comfortable enough with them to work them into a FF build, and then I'll be able to go to town on the bad guys with them.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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in 4th place is Unleashed.
It has an assload of crowd control powers. Even it's energy unlock is all about the control.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
And like I said, CC has issues in a lot of the game, meaning the Mind has issues too. It can be a god - in the right place and the right time. In the wrong place and the wrong time, it can be a gimp. The hard part is figuring out ahead of time which is which...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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The Mind
Support
You have tapped into powerful psychic energies. You use your mental might to lash out at opponents and reach into their psyches to make their darkest nightmares real.
Concepts: Alien Overmind, Mental Mutation, Mind-Control Ray, Psionic Projector, Telepath
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Shroud
The Void
It's aight.
Edit: Sure, I guess I can go into more detail.
The Void is another of the ATs that gains most of its effectiveness from very specific building. Built just so, it's pretty versatile, and can even accomplish some limited tanking. Built even slightly incorrectly, it's a bit of a nightmare. Most importantly: even at 40 it has severe energy issues unless you plan ahead. End PSS can mitigate this quite a bit, but to be honest? It's a bit disappointing having to spec THAT heavily in something the AT should be able to handle on its own. Readiness and kickback help to some degree, and at least make it more playable. END mastery... Ew. I took End mastery on something. I drank half a gallon of bleach and then scrubbed myself with some steel wool over that one. Still feels dirty. I had to give 2 of my alts strafing run and 2 gun mojo to make myself feel better.
Note, however, that a pet-centric version of this AT *can* work. Nothing I'm saying applies to that version. I'da ran it myself, but there are a few alert bosses that just EAT PETS ALIVE, so just noping all over that one. It was a service to the community, really. As well, there's a very fine line between "can" and "does". This isn't an AT I'd suggest trying it with, I had a friend try the same a while ago and yeah. Deleted! Could make for a fun let's play video, though.
Ok, so nuts and bolts. I went the Ebon Rift/Lifedrain route, because permanent pets eat a chunk of your energy right off the top, and lifedrain is just freaking awesome. Rift's pull, however... Yeah I think someone nerfed that when I wasn't paying attention. The AOE dps on it is pretty low as is, but without the pull effect doing a damn thing I feel like this slot was a bit of a waste. So, as a second option, I snagged "dark displacement" on Shadow Embrace. Baelogventure suggested that, and it's a pretty darn good method of hard crowd control. The knock has a fantastic habit of interrupting mob attacks (especially charges), which makes survival a lot easier all across the board. Note, however, that dark displacement is the knock DOWN. Fatal Allure is the biggest waste of points since Accelerated Metabolism.
The spec trees on this thing helped. Guardvenger did a fair bit to stack up the offense and defense, which is good because lifedrain is pretty stupid on the threat scale. However, there is a caveat. Like the build, you really don't have a lot of flexibility in spec tree choices. The "blast does X" powers are pretty damn silly, because none of your attacks are really high-damage nuke of doom style powers. Sure, an argument can be made for Ebon Ruin, but even then we're talking more for the secondary effect than the raw damage. I *guess* guardian mastery could be used to make a charged shadow blast spammer, but if you're doing that it might be time to have a sit down. Just... You know. Evaluate those priorities a bit. Maybe consider using premade builds for a while.
It might sound like I'm hating on this AT, and for a bit there I really did struggle with enjoying the gameplay, but in the end I feel like what I was grappling with most had nothing to do with it in particular. What my real beef was, and I'm encountering it more and more as I level, was an issue of false options. If you build this thing without knowing the mechanics, or even using intuitive design on just about any other character, you are going to fail. It will be frustrating, you will delete the character, and if you're new (and just spent money on this thing) it might drive you away from the game. And in this case it's not just "maybe lower dps a bit", if you take Void Horror, Life Drain, and no energy stacking perks? Nothing will help you, you WILL be sucking air less than 2 seconds into the fight. And you'd probably be right to question why they're selling this broken mess in the first place. BUT, if you do know the right setup, the AT's easy as hell. One of the best. This is a flawed meta that I really wish would get looked at. I field a *lot* of questions about how to run or build certain ATs, and most of them come from this design style. I'm not gonna dock The Void in particular for it, but I do feel like this is a conversation that we should be having. How do we make the ATs evenly powered, but at the same time allow for choices that won't flat out cripple them?
As for the costume, I dunno. I just thought it looked awesome. I wanted a dark sorcerer type, since I don't do a lot of fantasy characters. I also wanted to mess with some of my rarer costume bits, since I don't get to use stuff like the kiga face or val's shoulders often. I love the way he came out, might be one of my favorite looks at this point.
Advantages:
- Self heals. It's got 2 options that both do the job rather well.
- Survivable. Con SS, defensive specs, Fear, the *best block in the game*... This thing comes very well stacked to survive.
- Debuffs and Control. Fear's amazing, your tank will thank you. Ebon Ruin does some fantastic things to anyone that wants to self-heal (hi, Ao'. I'm talking about you). Shadow Embrace is a fantastic crowd-interrupter, which can literally save half of a life bar of damage. And, best of all, Grasping Shadows is definitely a hold that exists in the Champions Online massively multiplayer online role playing game! It is definitely a power people have a choice to use!
- Good AOE dps. Even only at R2, Shadow Embrace is a very good power.
- Cool looking powers. I know, opinion, but yeah. My review, so if you don't like it feel free to send me an angry tell that I won't read. (ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง
Disadvantages:
- Needs to be built a very certain way in order to work properly.
- High threat, for a dps hybrid. Especially considering the form is SUPPOSED to offer threat mitigation. I feel like something's busted here.
- Ebon Rift is chindogu. Buff plz, it looks so cool.
- Have you heard that Grasping Shadows is a power you can select in the Champions Online massively multiplayer online role playing game? Because I am here to tell you, Grasping Shadows is indeed a power you can select in the Champions Online massively multiplayer online role playing game. It certainly does things that look like a power. Or, you know, a bad Japanese cartoon. I mean, I've heard that at least. I don't understand your animales and your pokeymint and what have you. MURRICA. Anyway, that power sucks **** through a straw. That is what I'm getting at here.
Rating:
8/10
Because when you get right down to it, if built correctly, this *is* one of the best ATs. I'm gonna throw caution to the wind here and judge it on it's potential, because when it's good it's VERY good. So the strong disclaimer here is "read a guide". Or just send me a mail in game, I can make suggestions.
One thing that would make it better:
I'm torn here. I'd say "a dev pass", but it almost feels like a cop-out. Thing is, some of the powers are either subject to power creep (and therefore not as great as they used to be), or just generally need an overhaul. Energy costs need a tweak, and the energy unlock as it stands is frankly just sad. If you held a gun to my head and made me choose one thing, I'd take it away Jackie Chan style, because I'm awesome. However, assuming that didn't happen, I'd probably say the energy unlock is the one thing that could use the biggest tweak. If it gave double the energy it currently does, I still might not think it's overpowered.
RIP Caine
...I take it you'll edit the review in once you're done? Or that's your way of saying 11/10?
RIP Caine
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My beef with it is that while a decent enough aoe power with a cool effect? Yeah, the charge. EVERYTHING IS DEAD by the time it fires off. CC in this game needs to be a bit faster. That power would rock if it worked like ebon void does, maintain that lasts twice as long as you maintain it. Also, it should dot anyway. Lots of CC does.
RIP Caine
Honestly I like Grasping Shadows, I have a Darkness-Necromancer-Debuffer Build on the making that can take advantage of it and stay in theme
A Paralyzemove that can Trigger Pre's Vulnerability, Sentinel's Wither, Overseer's Trapped and Sentinel Mastery
The biggest Disadvantage is how FREAKING LONG it takes to fully charge the power as you said without the option to just TAP it... MEANWHILE Mental Storm is an AoE
Paralyze TOO and can Trigger all those SPEC Debuffs by a TAP without being fully charge because FML!
Making Grasping Shadows USELESS CHOICE ...
WTF CRYPTIC?
Grasping Shadows and many other CC moves NEED to work on TAP like Mental Storm
+10 "I'll just control this mob. Let me charge up... Oh... it's all dead." *sadness*
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
okay, I know this is a bit off topic for the thread, but what helmet/head/item/mask/etc. are you using in this picture? It's driving me crazy trying to figure it out.
championswiki.com
T__T Such a cheat!
championswiki.com
Yeah. I'm not seeing the severe energy issues either. Stat some recovery and con.. then maybe a few good mods slotted and your good to go.
I think the void is actually one of the easiest AT's to level.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."