Scoundrel jacket...fixed?

onlyepicwolf · March 2015

This is how you fix the ridiculous 'cloth' physics of the Scoundrel jacket? By making it shorter and not making the physics like in the older sets (which work/look way better) ?

Welp, I know which jacket I'm no longer using

maleb666 · March 2015

Pretty much my reaction after I saw this mutilation to an amazing piece of costume...

ealford1985 · March 2015

This is the "quality" pieces we can look forward to.

onlyepicwolf · March 2015

ealford1985 wrote: »

This is the "quality" pieces we can look forward to.

Side topic but since you mentioned- the pricing of that new Scientist set made me laugh hard. Two jackets, like 3-4 accessories- 600Zen.

QUALITY

bwdares · March 2015

2 steps forward, 3 leaps back.

neuraldamage · March 2015

onlyepicwolf wrote: »

Side topic but since you mentioned- the pricing of that new Scientist set made me laugh hard. Two jackets, like 3-4 accessories- 600Zen.

QUALITY

*cough*money grab*cough*

avianos · March 2015

Did our Devs lost their minds and Decided to TROLL us?

What the Hell is this? This is not a Trench Coat anymore :mad: NOT COOL anymore

xydaxyda · March 2015

...if it goes below the knees it is still technically a trench coat.

chimerafreek · March 2015

Yeaaah no, I definitely liked the way it was before, This mutilation is disgusting.

Why was this not brought up on the PTS first?

williamkony · March 2015

chimerafreek wrote: »

Yeaaah no, I definitely liked the way it was before, This mutilation is disgusting.

Why was this not brought up on the PTS first?

I don't have Gold, so I wasn't able to access the PTS to see, but I'm guessing they fixed the stretching WITHOUT cutting the coat in half, there?

This kind of Live/PTS disconnect is becoming a habit, and it's getting extremely frustrating and disheartening.

Call it pessimism, but I'm guessing if they ever put the coat back at its original length, they'll also remove it from the Robotic Arms category just because they HAVE to piss everyone off somehow.

sistersilicon · March 2015

chimerafreek wrote: »

Yeaaah no, I definitely liked the way it was before, This mutilation is disgusting.

Why was this not brought up on the PTS first?

It was. Less than 24 hours before it was deployed in production this morning.

So we can add "underhanded patching practices" to "cheap", "lazy", and "cash grab" as descriptors for this costume price hike. So much for preaching patience and encouraging reinvestment in costume quality. You made me look like a fool, Cryptic.

meedacthunist · March 2015

...

Wow.

Ok. Seriously. I can understand that working physics might not be possible on this piece. Happends.

But it should be kept longer. Default f2p trench coat is fairly long in comparison.

ealford1985 · March 2015

I would rather have the stretchy version

xydaxyda · March 2015

Does anyone have a screenshot of the original length?

spinnytop · March 2015

Ah, it's this time again.

Have fun guys, I'm gonna go enjoy life ^_^

roughbearmattach · March 2015

Let's see, costumes that became worse after patches:

Victorian Dress
Arcane Tattoos Head (male)
Scoundrel Jacket Bottom

More?

ealford1985 · March 2015

roughbearmattach wrote: »

Let's see, costumes that became worse after patches:

Victorian Dress
Arcane Tattoos Head (male)
Scoundrel Jacket Bottom

More?

How dare we complain, right?

vampirial · March 2015

anyone else would be happy to have the stretchy glitch if we have the long coat?

pantagruel01 · March 2015

sistersilicon wrote: »

So we can add "underhanded patching practices" to "cheap", "lazy", and "cash grab" as descriptors for this costume price hike.

To be fair, 'post stuff to PTS and then immediately to live without bothering to wait for comments' is not new.

trailturtle · March 2015

I did some digging around. Meatiator is out of office today, but from what I'm told, the trench coat's initial length was itself a result of the stretchiness. I don't fully understand the physics of it, but my understanding is that the way the coat was designed (length, hang, etc) played poorly with cloth-texture physics, leading to the massive stretching when moving, and some additional length when not moving. We fixed the design issues that were causing the stretching, restoring it to the designed length, which was a bit lower than knee-height.

I apologize that there was confusion over the intended length of the trench coat, that's my fault for not being in sync with the devs about the intended design. The fact that people are interesting in an ankle-length trench coat that's designed that way is good information, though, it's always good to know what there's a demand for.

flyingfinn · March 2015

Well, how about putting the "pre strechy" coat back?
I mean, we did have one. Right?

jonsills · March 2015

The question to ask your designers, then, is whether, now that they've fixed the stretching issue, it's at all possible to make it longer without making it stretchy again. If so, you might want to consider giving the coat either the longer tail, or an option in case someone might actually want the shorter one.

(I don't want either option; to my eyes, the holes in the tail make the coat look unfinished, as if the tailor got bored two-thirds of the way through and just made a sort of slapdash framework.)

xparibax · March 2015

Loved the length and the fluidity of the coat, the stretchy didnt bother me. It moved more like a real fabric, then the stiff and rather unyeilding older draperies. I'll take glitchy long coat, please.

onlyepicwolf · March 2015

trailturtle wrote: »

The fact that people are interesting in an ankle-length trench coat that's designed that way is good information, though, it's always good to know what there's a demand for.

Probably, but the physics are still dodgy. If it was made with how cloth physics were before (Cowboy set, the buttcape, capes overall so on and so forth) it wouldn't been an issue and we could keep our awesome space trench coat- a set that clearly had more time put into it, which shows in the quality.

As for the 'demand' thing, why bring it up, it won't change anything.

Thank you for replying though, at least we know you guys are on it.

ealford1985 · March 2015

Taken today

Champions%20Online_2015-03-12_19-47-42.jpg

Tell me more about the stretchy?

maleb666 · March 2015

trailturtle wrote: »

I did some digging around. Meatiator is out of office today, but from what I'm told, the trench coat's initial length was itself a result of the stretchiness. I don't fully understand the physics of it, but my understanding is that the way the coat was designed (length, hang, etc) played poorly with cloth-texture physics, leading to the massive stretching when moving, and some additional length when not moving. We fixed the design issues that were causing the stretching, restoring it to the designed length, which was a bit lower than knee-height.

I apologize that there was confusion over the intended length of the trench coat, that's my fault for not being in sync with the devs about the intended design. The fact that people are interesting in an ankle-length trench coat that's designed that way is good information, though, it's always good to know what there's a demand for.

So, TT, you're telling us that all this time, since it was first advertised, with pictures on the site, on the lockbox, the test server, the "vendors" on RenCen, all the art that was spreaded around was wrong?? The coat was supposed to be knee lenght??

Sorry buddy, but this time, it didn't stick out...

The lockbox itself is out since february, and just NOW, when people started to complain that it was streching that they saw it and said: "Oh, right!! It was supposed to be knee lenght!!!"

Please, man...

avianos · March 2015

I'm sorry TT but this is some serious BS

People had reported about the Coat since it was on PTS
The Costume was up like that LIVE for 2-3 Weeks
we had to wait 2-3 Weeks until it get a fix in the PTS
and now it get released Butchered and you are telling us this is suppose to the be the "ORIGINAL" Design and NOT the one which was ADVERTISED as?

This costume has been a Disaster
a horrible-horrible disaster

So much for the PTS Feedbacks fellow players gave!

ealford1985 wrote: »

Tell me more about the stretchy?

EXACTLY it's still BUGGED, so much for the "FIX" it only Butchered the costume

riltmos · March 2015

trailturtle wrote: »

I did some digging around. Meatiator is out of office today, but from what I'm told, the trench coat's initial length was itself a result of the stretchiness. I don't fully understand the physics of it, but my understanding is that the way the coat was designed (length, hang, etc) played poorly with cloth-texture physics, leading to the massive stretching when moving, and some additional length when not moving. We fixed the design issues that were causing the stretching, restoring it to the designed length, which was a bit lower than knee-height.

I apologize that there was confusion over the intended length of the trench coat, that's my fault for not being in sync with the devs about the intended design. The fact that people are interesting in an ankle-length trench coat that's designed that way is good information, though, it's always good to know what there's a demand for.

He lied, the trenchcoat still stretches just as before, I just tested it out after looking at Rat's picture, and in fact, the stretchiness is exactly as it was before except that the coat tail is slightly shorter so that it isn't as noticeable. Though it is still extremely noticeable.

crypticbuxom · March 2015

This is nothing what was like what was shown on the PTS. They pushed a single post in the current patch thread when no one was looking and then pushed to live this shortened coat. Can we all now admit how badly they **** up the PTS process EVERY time now?

Here's an idea. Remake the trench coat. Just start over. You have the texture. Make it work as the originally advertised length.

Give it to us as it was shown for months. Don't be *******s. Don't apologize. Just do it.

Because everything done before and since the costume price hike feels like more poking at the wounds. This is like the same mentality that Cryptic has always given its players. If we criticize the devs they punish the players. You guys don't deserve the costume price change if this is how things are going to be done.

CN is no different than the original Cryptic team from what I'm seeing.

Make this right.

jennymachx · March 2015

trailturtle wrote: »

I did some digging around. Meatiator is out of office today, but from what I'm told, the trench coat's initial length was itself a result of the stretchiness. I don't fully understand the physics of it, but my understanding is that the way the coat was designed (length, hang, etc) played poorly with cloth-texture physics, leading to the massive stretching when moving, and some additional length when not moving. We fixed the design issues that were causing the stretching, restoring it to the designed length, which was a bit lower than knee-height.

I apologize that there was confusion over the intended length of the trench coat, that's my fault for not being in sync with the devs about the intended design. The fact that people are interesting in an ankle-length trench coat that's designed that way is good information, though, it's always good to know what there's a demand for.

If the costume piece is a free default one then it's easy to just let this slip. However people are paying a premium for this, a premium that was recently increased. People are going to care about less about the technicalities of why the jacket is the way it is and more about having it fixed to justify paying for it in the first place.

If the way the coat was designed played poorly with cloth-texture physics then it wasn't a quality design in the first place. Either find a solution or temporarily revert it back to what it was previously, which actually looked better.

joybuzzerx · March 2015

trailturtle wrote: »

I did some digging around. Meatiator is out of office today, but from what I'm told, the trench coat's initial length was itself a result of the stretchiness. I don't fully understand the physics of it, but my understanding is that the way the coat was designed (length, hang, etc) played poorly with cloth-texture physics, leading to the massive stretching when moving, and some additional length when not moving. We fixed the design issues that were causing the stretching, restoring it to the designed length, which was a bit lower than knee-height.

I apologize that there was confusion over the intended length of the trench coat, that's my fault for not being in sync with the devs about the intended design. The fact that people are interesting in an ankle-length trench coat that's designed that way is good information, though, it's always good to know what there's a demand for.

But...that's why I put more money into the game to begin with. To get the coat that we had. Now it's gone?

kemmicals · March 2015

Can we also get this fixed? Cuz I still want my cropped leather jackets without crappy textures.

bwdares · March 2015

kemmicals wrote: »

Can we also get this fixed? Cuz I still want my cropped leather jackets without crappy textures.

Carful asking for a fix befor we find out that the bottom of those jackets were supposed to be in the armpits.

kemmicals · March 2015

bwdares wrote: »

Carful asking for a fix befor we find out that the bottom of those jackets were supposed to be in the armpits.

Can't blame me for being a liiiiittle bit hopeful.

jonsills · March 2015

jennymachx wrote: »

If the costume piece is a free default one then it's easy to just let this slip. However people are paying a premium for this, a premium that was recently increased.

Point of order: This is a lockbox costume set, so while a premium was paid (in a sense, depending on whether you bought a key on the AH or with Zen, and how the RNG Gods treated you), that price hasn't in fact increased.

The implementation is still flawed, but not quite in the way you suggest.

jennymachx · March 2015

jonsills wrote: »

Point of order: This is a lockbox costume set, so while a premium was paid (in a sense, depending on whether you bought a key on the AH or with Zen, and how the RNG Gods treated you), that price hasn't in fact increased.

The implementation is still flawed, but not quite in the way you suggest.

I stand corrected. However the fact that it's a lockbox costume, meaning that Cryptic expects people to spend a significant amount of ZEN on keys to gamble for the unlock should mean that the quality assurance for the costume piece should still be on par with any paid-for sets.

sterga · March 2015

The coat is slightly shorter. Is it really necessary to flip out and rage over it instead of just a basic complaint? If something so minor is making you froth at the mouth, consider stepping away from the computer and relaxing for awhile.

jennymachx · March 2015

sterga wrote: »

The coat is slightly shorter. Is it really necessary to flip out and rage over it instead of just a basic complaint? If something so minor is making you froth at the mouth, consider stepping away from the computer and relaxing for awhile.

Majority of the feedback has been civil so far.

Also this doesn't come off as minor. Minor would describe something like a small clipping issue or barely noticeable texture defect. This one looks pretty glaring.

morigosa · March 2015

I don't make posts with inlined animated GIFs, but if I did, this one would be perfect for this thread: http://i.imgur.com/keLJJ4T.gif

williamkony · March 2015

sterga wrote: »

The coat is slightly shorter. Is it really necessary to flip out and rage over it instead of just a basic complaint? If something so minor is making you froth at the mouth, consider stepping away from the computer and relaxing for awhile.

Slightly shorter? If this coat were a skirt, the amount removed would leave you nude below the belly button.

xydaxyda · March 2015

Does anyone have an image of the coat before it was changed?

williamkony · March 2015

xydaxyda wrote: »

Does anyone have an image of the coat before it was changed?

I don't, unfortunately, except for those from hitting Save in the costume creator.

The coat came down further in-game, so I believe the claim that it only got shorter because of the stretchiness fix. That doesn't mean it should stay as pathetically short as it is, though.

xydaxyda · March 2015

williamkony wrote: »

I don't, unfortunately, except for those from hitting Save in the costume creator.

The coat came down further in-game, so I believe the claim that it only got shorter because of the stretchiness fix. That doesn't mean it should stay as pathetically short as it is, though.

onlyepicwolf wrote: »

Welp, I know which jacket I'm no longer using

I admit I like the longer version better, but the shorter one isn't *that* terrible.

williamkony · March 2015

xydaxyda wrote: »

I admit I like the longer version better, but the shorter one isn't *that* terrible.

The problem is, the longer one was even longer than you're seeing. And the straps make ZERO sense on the shorter one; that kind of addition would usually be to strap the tails to one's legs. In the "new" version, the coat tails ARE straps and THAT'S IT. They're pointless.

I don't want to sound whiny, but I went after that costume piece because I wanted a long coat. I no longer have that. Intentional or not, that's some pretty blatant bait-and-switch. And I don't know if I'm willing to try for any other long coats that come out after this for fear of being taken on a wild goose chase with it.

xydaxyda · March 2015

these both come from images in the costume creator though...so the difference in length should be equal no?

biffsmackwell · March 2015

williamkony wrote: »

Intentional or not, that's some pretty blatant bait-and-switch.

This phrase is seriously starting to lose all meaning on these forums.

The phrase means that someone advertized a product that can be seen as a great deal, but when the customer attempts to buy it, they're told that the product "ran out" and the only others available are similar products, but at a much higher price. They're baited by the bargain but end up leaving with a similar, but higher-priced product.

So can we cut that out now?

While I don't like how the new coat looks, and yes, they could have left the "fix" up on PTS longer for people to comment on it, the fact is that the coat was designed to be shorter, but the customers didn't like how goofy the physics looked and demanded a fix. Now the coat is shorter, more like it was designed to be (and from what I hear, the goofy stretchiness of it is not fixed), and people are unhappy.

Do you really think the Cryptic guys are sitting around their lounge right now, in top hats and monocles, twirling their mustaches and guffawing about this brilliant scam they pulled? "They thought they were getting a long coat, but we fooled them, and they now have a less long coat! We are genius!"

There is no bait and switch. It's not a scheme. The people who wanted it fixed (and others who didn't mind, like myself) just didn't know what it was supposed to look like, and now they don't like it.

I do hope they add some length to it, or revert it to the previous version, but let's not blow things out of proportion in the meantime.

williamkony · March 2015

biffsmackwell wrote: »

This phrase is seriously starting to lose all meaning on these forums.

The phrase means that someone advertized a product that can be seen as a great deal, but when the customer attempts to buy it, they're told that the product "ran out" and the only others available are similar products, but at a much higher price. They're baited by the bargain but end up leaving with a similar, but higher-priced product.

So can we cut that out now?

While I don't like how the new coat looks, and yes, they could have left the "fix" up on PTS longer for people to comment on it, the fact is that the coat was designed to be shorter, but the customers didn't like how goofy the physics looked and demanded a fix. Now the coat is shorter, more like it was designed to be (and from what I hear, the goofy stretchiness of it is not fixed), and people are unhappy.

Do you really think the Cryptic guys are sitting around their lounge right now, in top hats and monocles, twirling their mustaches and guffawing about this brilliant scam they pulled? "They thought they were getting a long coat, but we fooled them, and they now have a less long coat! We are genius!"

There is no bait and switch. It's not a scheme. The people who wanted it fixed (and others who didn't mind, like myself) just didn't know what it was supposed to look like, and now they don't like it.

I do hope they add some length to it, or revert it to the previous version, but let's not blow things out of proportion in the meantime.

What would the correct terminology be, then?

What I'm seeing is a ploy of selling someone something with the claim that it operates a certain way, changing how it works after their purchase, and then offering something that ACTUALLY operates that way further on down the road. (Unless you just keep the chain going, but that depends on some extremely gullible consumers.)
We're 2-out-of-3 steps into that particular scam, whether that was the original plan or not (which I don't believe it was ever the plan, but if the existing Scoundrel Coat isn't given back its length, they're certainly in position to dishonestly squeeze more money from their players).

This quote

"The fact that people are interesting in an ankle-length trench coat that's designed that way is good information, though, it's always good to know what there's a demand for"

leads me to believe that the demand for WHAT WE ALREADY HAD will be brought up to the developers, at which point they can make a new one to sell to us AGAIN. And I, for one, will not be pleased with that after having blown money on this existing piece.

xydaxyda wrote: »

these both come from images in the costume creator though...so the difference in length should be equal no?

They should. I hadn't noticed the difference between the two initially, I'd only noticed that my image had a shorter tail than what I'd seen in-game. So either the stretching glitch still carried over a little bit into the Costume Creator screenshots, or they really did genuinely change the length for some reason, perhaps as a cheap way to lessen the stretching problem.

decorumfriends · March 2015

williamkony needs to look at intent:

What I'm seeing is a ploy...

And that's exactly where you're getting off track. Re: twirling moustaches, top hats and monocles.

BTW, the phrase you're looking for is "planned obsolescence", but it doesn't apply here.

biffsmackwell · March 2015

williamkony wrote: »

What would the correct terminology be, then?

What I'm seeing is a ploy of selling someone something with the claim that it operates a certain way, changing how it works after their purchase, and then offering something that ACTUALLY operates that way further on down the road. (Unless you just keep the chain going, but that depends on some extremely gullible consumers.)
We're 2-out-of-3 steps into that particular scam, whether that was the original plan or not (which I don't believe it was ever the plan, but if the existing Scoundrel Coat isn't given back its length, they're certainly in position to dishonestly squeeze more money from their players).

Keep in mind that it was only changed because the players wanted it fixed. The players just didn't know that the fix would alter its appearance. There's maybe one guy working on this costume, and a thousand players with a lot of differing opinions. The one guy working on this costume can't possibly think of every course of action the players are going to take when he's just told to fix how floppy the thing was.

The ones with the most blame are the guys that put it on PTS and didn't leave it up long enough. They looked, said it looked fine (because perhaps, a slightly shorter coat wasn't a dealbreaker to them) and pushed it through. Did it deserve more time on PTS for player feedback? Yes, I do think that would have been great. Is it worth calling a ploy? No. What exactly does Cryptic get by shortening a coat? If it's a wildly unpopular decision? They get less Cosmic Key sales. You think that's what they're after? No, probably not.

Now, if they start selling a longer coat that looks the same for some five bucks, then we can start talking about weak conspiracy theories, but as far as this one goes (and I want to remind you, I'm on the side of wanting this to be changed to be a longer coat), there's no scam, there's no ploy, it was just a disconnect between developer fixes and player expectation.

joybuzzerx · March 2015

<_<

*this player didn't want or ask for a fix*

>_>

williamkony · March 2015

decorumfriends needs to look at my full post instead of finding the specific part they want to pick at and ignoring the rest:

williamkony: "I don't believe it was ever the plan, but if the existing Scoundrel Coat isn't given back its length, they're certainly in position to dishonestly squeeze more money from their players."

And obsolescence, normal or planned, doesn't seem to fit at all. The coat isn't becoming obsolete, it's becoming something different from what was purchased.

biffsmackwell wrote: »

Keep in mind that it was only changed because the players wanted it fixed. The players just didn't know that the fix would alter its appearance. There's maybe one guy working on this costume, and a thousand players with a lot of differing opinions. The one guy working on this costume can't possibly think of every course of action the players are going to take when he's just told to fix how floppy the thing was.

The ones with the most blame are the guys that put it on PTS and didn't leave it up long enough. They looked, said it looked fine (because perhaps, a slightly shorter coat wasn't a dealbreaker to them) and pushed it through. Did it deserve more time on PTS for player feedback? Yes, I do think that would have been great. Is it worth calling a ploy? No. What exactly does Cryptic get by shortening a coat? If it's a wildly unpopular decision? They get less Cosmic Key sales. You think that's what they're after? No, probably not.

Now, if they start selling a longer coat that looks the same for some five bucks, then we can start talking about weak conspiracy theories, but as far as this one goes (and I want to remind you, I'm on the side of wanting this to be changed to be a longer coat), there's no scam, there's no ploy, it was just a disconnect between developer fixes and player expectation.

It doesn't take some special degree of intelligence when testing fixes to realize "hey, this thing just got three feet shorter." That's not a case of miscommunication, it's a case of not taking pride in one's work. I can't see how someone could be tasked with eliminating the stretching bug and NOT get a look at the idle positions before and after the change. If some method were used that did indeed preclude seeing the coat before setting up a fix... I guess that gets the one who fixed it off the hook, but it opens a whole new can of worms as to how much they're trying to rush the process in general, which brings about shoddy and ineffective results.

And what did my post say? It said we're on our way to such a scam. Not that we're there. That "selling a coat that looks the same" thing is exactly what I'm warning against, I'm not saying that is absolutely what's happening.

Many people have already bought the coat. I'm not sure how many people have been waiting to. So at this stage, the change would be to appease those who have already spent their money. Player retention is prominent if it actually crosses their minds, but failing that, what incentive is there for them to elongate the coat again versus making a new one for the extra burst of revenue? That's why this has me worried.

(Also. "(because perhaps, a slightly shorter coat wasn't a dealbreaker to them)" It's not slightly shorter. Don't downplay this. Unless you mean "slight" in relation to the UNTIL Headquarters. Whether you're in favor of a longer coat or not, statements like that make it sound like dissenters of the change are all taking a microscope to the thing.)

Scoundrel jacket...fixed?

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