Not really surprised about the Mountain overview, tbh. Quicksand and Fissure are good, but they can't really hold up everything else. At some point, Earth's weaker dps is gonna rear its ugly head and cause issues.
Tap-spamming Cave-in w/ CripC is prob the best threat gen numerically, but then there's the issue of not getting Conc stacks sometimes (so half-charges).
The Night Avenger.. hahaha. Well, if there's any kit that can demonstrate how poorly ATs can be designed.. you'd look at the Impulse or the Automaton. BUT THEN, you'd prob also look at the Night Avenger. I mean, the damn thing has stealth, Ricochet Throw, shredded + DC, AND Strafing Run?! Like, how could that be bad, right? I'm sure this is gonna be greeea-
Then ya try playing one outside of easy solo missions and.. lol.
Even if it lacks an EU, even if it has pretty much no defenses and is squishier than the Fist, even if Conc doesn't work for its melee attacks, even if FotTiger doesn't work w/ its Ranged attacks.. I think I just hated being saddled w/ a melee end builder the most out of all of it. I wanted to level Ranged (cause its obv the easier way to level), but that damn melee end builder.. To think it could've had Boomerang Toss instead.
A waste of a good array of attack powers. Hybrid role doesn't do it any favors either- since it is a full and true glass cannon dps in how it actually plays out. Bonus healing? For what? lolololo-
I really feel like the INCREDIBLY lackluster damage isn't helping the set at all. I can't even imagine how you'd try to build a dps earth character. I can't even see the fallback, crit-happy quarry, helping too much. It really does need a ton of help, I might actually now rank earth as the most under-performing set in the game. Literally all it has going for it, as far as I can see, is the fact that you can tank from a distance pretty easily with it. Even that, there are better options to do.
Ranged Earth dps isn't too low if built around. I had a controller version using Manip and Cave In's stun + TK Maelstrom for lockdowns (Quicksand cleanup), and the dmg is decent. But since its Ranged Physical, Gravi just laughs at it. If I swapped Int PSS for Ego or Dex PSS, and Conc for Manip, could prob see 14k+ Cave Ins from that build w/ ES running- not that bad.
And as far as dps.. well Celestial prob has it worse. Maybe Sorcery too (though Sorc can make for nice pet builds). Force also is almost nothing dps-wise w/o FC or even Detonation. HW is also ofc down there, and has worse AoE reach than Earth. There is Melee-Earth, though- that is def the bottom-feeder.. mine as well give enemy health back for how effective it is.
Devs got a lotta buffing to do.. which they will never actually do :x
Hybrid role doesn't do it any favors either- since it is a full and true glass cannon dps in how it actually plays out.
Even better, because by picking FotT or Concentration this AT can't be really hybrid ranged/melee DPS. Unlike the Specialist.
Sure, shadowstriking targets may be fun, but that's not enough to justify picking this AT over the Specialist.
Even better, because by picking FotT or Concentration this AT can't be really hybrid ranged/melee DPS. Unlike the Specialist.
Sure, shadowstriking targets may be fun, but that's not enough to justify picking this AT over the Specialist.
Right- but to be fair, if ya go the FotT + claws route, you have to use Ranged attacks for AoE anyways, since all the melee options are single-target. Since ATs have many more extra adv points to spare, ya can rank the toggle to help w/ this, but its rather silly when the only means of AoEing can't stack the toggle.
I mean, even if selecting one of the dps roles means skewing it to one style, I'd rather have that since at least that means a better dmg:threat ratio (and better end building- which it usually has to do if ya wanna use SR). Hybrid role means half the SS's innate boost is pretty much a waste (unless ya get an elixir), and its squishy arse pulls threat at lower damage.
(or they could've given the kit a Pres/%heal-scaling heal power.. but I guess that's asking too much for a premium AT :x )
The Duck Knight has to have a lot of Night Avenger powers because they're thematic (he is a Batman homage, after all), but I gave him Boomerang Toss for his EB, and I haven't had an issue with that yet. Between that and Ricochet Throw, it's not often that I have to get within melee range of an enemy, which works out well for me.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Well no surprise there since I myself am about to move on to LoL... Little attention is being give to CO and I am losing interest in it... The quests are monotonous and alerts are a hard grind. And even the customization is failing to make up for it What more? I have lost interest in leveling up my champs
But then again... I still want a FF slot and I am short of 4900 zen XD! So if you have some Q crates... Sell em to me!!!! Pweaseee!
"Good can be found in heights, even in the deepest pits of evil" but "The valleys of evil always exist in the mountains of good."
Y'all made it worth it. I'm bummed I never got to finish this. I hate leaving projects unfinished.
FYI? NEVER PLAY THE NIGHT AVENGER AT. If I leave with any advice, let that be the most important. God, that thing is atrocious. My favorite part of that AT is that I didn't have to level it anymore. Awful. Simply awful. 0/10. It's the only one I'll ever give that rating to.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Y'all made it worth it. I'm bummed I never got to finish this. I hate leaving projects unfinished.
FYI? NEVER PLAY THE NIGHT AVENGER AT. If I leave with any advice, let that be the most important. God, that thing is atrocious. My favorite part of that AT is that I didn't have to level it anymore. Awful. Simply awful. 0/10. It's the only one I'll ever give that rating to.
Not even the impulse? O.o
"Good can be found in heights, even in the deepest pits of evil" but "The valleys of evil always exist in the mountains of good."
Y'all made it worth it. I'm bummed I never got to finish this. I hate leaving projects unfinished.
FYI? NEVER PLAY THE NIGHT AVENGER AT. If I leave with any advice, let that be the most important. God, that thing is atrocious. My favorite part of that AT is that I didn't have to level it anymore. Awful. Simply awful. 0/10. It's the only one I'll ever give that rating to.
Dang...I was so looking forward to some of your future reviews...Scourge...Void...Tempest...on and on. It's strange that it's so hard to find good reviews of Archetypes, but there it is. Your work was the only good stuff I've ever found.
God, I gotta farm more nem gear, but I guess I'll pick this back up. It's pretty much the reason I was into this game, I can't bear leaving it unfinished.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Evil taco, thanks a million XD. I never bothered about the marksman till I read that review. And I find her more fun than the disciple :O ! I dunno why... Maybe the diversity of arrows? Yet, I don't find her dps so low... Though I will agree that it falls in sustained dps but makes up for it with her burst. And the defense is pretty crap but CC makes up for it... Though ranged super villains are a big prob sometimes.
"Good can be found in heights, even in the deepest pits of evil" but "The valleys of evil always exist in the mountains of good."
God, I gotta farm more nem gear, but I guess I'll pick this back up. It's pretty much the reason I was into this game, I can't bear leaving it unfinished.
God, I gotta farm more nem gear, but I guess I'll pick this back up. It's pretty much the reason I was into this game, I can't bear leaving it unfinished.
Thank You!
It would be really shame to see this Project gone, I really like it, it's really useful for New Players as well :redface:
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Thank You!
It would be really shame to see this Project gone, I really like it, it's really useful for New Players as well :redface:
I agree totally, it's a great project. Maybe we should see about it being stickied. I have already referred a few people in-game to this thread.
I would suggest up in the combat and powers section or even better in the Champions Online Discussion section where it would be found easier...........make it so Cryptic!
I this thread as well. It really proves that a few AT's are really quite good. I can't wait for reviews of the Void and the scourge. I have found them both very hardy and useful AT's.
Quick update y'all. I'm on 2 nem pieces, I'll have my 3rd main tomorrow which is enough to get me running again. One of the players was nice enough to give me a buncha the old xp boosts, and I've got some of the boost plus items kicking around, which should be enough to get me back in business here very quickly and at least put some of my ATs I lost back where they were.
Sorry for the bit of a delay, I can do without most things but the 3 primary heirlooms are kinda key for this not taking literally forever. I think I'm gonna start up on the free archetypes I've not covered yet, for the benefit of free players that are just starting out, and aren't sure about making a cash investment yet. I'm open to feedback, however. If there's something people REALLY wanna see me cover, let me know.
Also, for completeness, I edited the entry on The Inventor with the teddy changes. I also added a clever tip from a player that picked the AT up because of the writeup, on how to run Bionic Shielding without having to fiddle with the energy builder constantly. I'll be going back over the AT writeups from time to time, when I hear essential tips or major changes happen.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
I'm pretty sure there are XP buff things in the guild bank on the last tab. Which is a free for all tab. And I'm pretty sure your alt is high enough rank to take stuff from those tabs.
Weren't you supposed to be doing The Mind next? No one loves the healers.
Bubbles? Is that going to be the name of your Mind?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Do you think the Mind could be made to solo well at low levels? That's been part of my problem - with my RL issues, I need to be able to solo about 90% of the time, and when I tried the Mind, it didn't seem very solo-friendly.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
The mind is fantastic... As long as you're not doing an alert. Can it solo? YES. A LOT. It's grouping where it has issues because of the short range heal and threat generation.
It's been a hard slog. Best I can say right now is that leveling it can be annoying if you're alerting it, it's a breeze if you're doing just content, and it'll probably make a pretty solid tank-healer.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Some of y'all have mentioned asking about an AT SG or ways to run. I've got a ton on my plate and I think that's a fun idea. I don't really have the time to do it, aside from my usual at leveling, but it'd be cool to try.
Y'all get something together I would probably offer to hop in from time to time.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
I'll be doing a writeup tomorrow, I'm still trying to put together thanks for the people who helped make it happen. Does it seem like I've been gone for a long time? Yeah, I was leveling the mind. I had to kick a bunch of people to make sure I gave this thing a fair review, and I needed a *lot* of help leveling it. Working on getting screen caps of everyone who helped out, because if I had to do this on my own I could not.
This is gonna be my hardest review, and definitely my most controversial. I'm gathering my last bits of data, and trying to find a way to tell the story of bringing this AT to 40 in a way that will do justice to it. I didn't forget you guys, it's just been REALLY difficult to see this one chunk of the project through. I think you'll find it worth the wait.
I'm also more than half way through a few other ATs, the Void is next. It's been my oasis in this storm.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
"Mixed bag" doesn't even begin to cover this AT. I normally try to add a bit of humor into my reviews, but put simply this thing is far too controversial (and complicated) for any of that. So, straight talk time. Let's do this.
Before I start I have to give a nod to a bunch of people that made leveling it possible. The Mind is *not* an easy AT to level. It was slow, it was frustrating, and at times it went badly enough that I considered flat out giving up on the project. So, a ton of thanks to Piffle, Aeolus, Pariba, Dogboy, Glass-Rose, Randomchance42, FriendlyBurrito, Mechakitty, Cthulhu-Fthagn, Crosschan, VoltageTeenTitan, Bluegrass Beast, and especially Sterga; who basically carried me through half of the life of this thing. If I missed you and you helped out? My bad, there were a lot of people. Know that I still appreciated it.
Why the laundry list? Because this thing is *bad* at low levels. A running gag among people who've been following me in game about this project is that it develops around level 23. At that point it's got its aura, and picks up it's first chunk of passive healing, because before that it's a SCRAMBLE to keep everyone healed up. The fact that it's only got the one heal worth speaking of (if you take psionic healing on this thing I hear a dev will actually ban you) and it's only got a 50 foot range? This is woefully inadequate for most alert-type content. FYI? It Actually gets useful sometime around 30-35. Before that? "Barely tolerable" is a good descriptor.
So, the nuts and bolts. The Mind is incredibly variable in efficiency, swinging wildly alert by alert from amazing healer to walking damage sponge. There are times where Ego Storm will flat out save your life (and your team) and other times where you might as well be throwing ramen noodles at your enemies. It's incredible at single target healing, and rather adequate at multi-target healing at endgame, probably being the easiest AT to try to tank-heal in big content. I can easily see one, well geared, main healing Fire and Ice. It's also a monster at solo content, sleep and ego blast/rude awakening is pretty fantastic at making most solo content just not matter. That said, the DPS is about at the level of one of those hot dog vendors throwing bottles. By 40 it's a struggle to cap 1.5k dps, even with mind opener and a bit of speccing for damage. Put simply, don't expect to ever leave the bottom of the DPS chart. I'd actually hazard a bet that The Mind is *literally* the lowest dps in the game, AT wise.
Surprisingly, however, in a pinch it makes a pretty good tank. Inevitably, as with all healers, you'll draw a fair amount of threat. The CC adds to it. Given the heal, the defensive nature of the passive, and the bubble? The only problem I never really had with The Mind was one of fragility. On the opposite side of the coin, MAN but CC got a nerf. Sleep might as well not exist in teams, ego storm with advantage gets broken instantly if one mob is broken out of it, the bubble single target hold is a charge and therefore kinda useless, and NONE OF IT works on any mob you'd actually care to use it on. This being the CC based archetype? That was a huge setback. A lot of the powers are legitimately useless in nearly every scenario, this AT lives and breathes on the merits of maybe 3 powers. Even ego sprites are kinda weak, they feel more like an afterthought and don't really seem to help much when you actually need them to. But hey, at least they do awful DPS!
I guess the TL;DR here is that this AT works so differently in different settings that I'm not surprised at all about the reactions people have to it. Some love it, some think it's literally the worst thing ever. How you play, and who you team with, will dictate your enjoyment. Keep that in mind when you consider my score, I'm trying to take the gestalt of this AT into consideration.
As for the costume? I kinda wanted to use parts I normally never do, and really liked the idea of making the mind a magitech styled character. As usual, I tried to avoid the stereotype of the AT, so a telepath was completely out of the question. A technomage with a life force manipulating helmet, on the other hand...
Advantages:
- It has one of the best heals in the game. Empathic is *fantastic*.
- BUBBLES! Heals with bubbles are wonderful.
- Lazy healing is a great idea in theory, and this thing comes with many of the tools to do so effectively. Defensive buffing passives? Passive healing auras? Bubbles? It's got the right tools.
- Incredibly efficient for solo play. As long as you're not on high difficulties the CC is very handy, especially since ego sprites don't break sleep. The fact that you can add damage to the ego blast with an advantage, out of sleep, sorta makes up for the weak dps otherwise.
- Solid single target healing. A Mind and a good DPS character can freight train a lot of content.
- Passive healing ramps up the toggle, making the energy a non-issue and maxing out dps rather quickly. Lots of people want Manipulator instead of Compassion. I'm firmly in the opposite camp.
Disadvantages:
- Wake me up when we hit level 30? You're gonna need some help or luck to get this thing to higher levels. The soloing content part is less of an issue. Alerts can be incredibly hit or miss.
- Very inconsistent. There are times where it feels incredibly powerful, and other times where you might as well not exist at all. This varies based on alert type, specific enemy, team composition, team experience... It's just impossible to ever guess in the beginning of an alert how things will end up. That's pretty nerve-wracking.
- Crowd control in CO is pathetic. If it even works on a mob, odds are the mob will probably be dead within a second anyway. There are literally 2 instances it's ever handy: when someone overpulls, because ego storm can lock them down enough for backup to arrive, and pvp. The latter? Yeah, good luck actually *killing anyone* in pvp.
- PATHETIC DPS.
- Dear Cryptic: WHY DON'T ANY SUPPORT CHARACTERS HAVE A REZ BESIDES THE RADIANT? Seriously, this is starting to make my eye twitch. It's such a basic necessity for a healer in any mmo.
Rating:
3/10
HEAR ME OUT. It's good when it's good, which is actually a pretty good variety of settings. When it's bad it's flat out unplayable. It's good at endgame, and TERRIBLE to level. Because it varies so heavily, I had to give it a moderate score to accurately represent all situations. I'd call it average, and give it a 5/10, but the leveling process is bad enough that I have to dock it a couple of points. It took me months to level, I've never experienced anything like it.
One thing that would make it better:
#telepathynow
*Snerk* but seriously, the CC mechanic needs an overhaul. I'd say put ego storm back to pre-nerf states, where it maintained the hold and reapplied it on break until resistance stacks hit 3. That one change would probably bump this AT up several notches in terms of usefulness.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Really well written Mind overview. I'm not sure if I'd give it a 3/10 (ouch!) but I found your observations on point.
In theory the mind is actually a very well designed AT. The problem is that CC in CO is mostly unnecessary.While most players don't require heavy support. In those instances where support is needed (i.e. Rampages) the Mind is missing a resurrection power.
As far as crowd control goes. I liked your suggestion for buffing Ego Storm. It got hit much t0o hard with the Nerf Bat. I also found the single target hold useful for things like Brick busters. Also CC can be used as a way to stack debuffs on hard targets. Provided you chose the specs for that.
I did mention it can be a lifesaver in some instances. But yeah, ego sleep breaks on a single hit. Charged CC doesn't really work in this game. Ego storm with advantage breaks when one mob breaks the hold *by design*. Like, they meant to make it do that. And hold strength is negatively impacted by dps, so the stronger your team the worse the cc performs. Again, by design.
I found the CC to work the best when I was on a team that I probably didn't want to be on anyway. Low level pugs? I was a cc god. But, you know, low level pug. That has problems well beyond how my ego storm performed.
Remember though that I'm also comparing it to *literally anything else you could do at that moment*, as well as where CC has been in the past, and how it behaves anywhere else. It's situational, which IMO was an issue with the mind across the board. As I mentioned, though, when it works it works very well.
And yeah, that rating took me a full day to come to. It's useful in a lot of instances. But the leveling hurt, the short range of the heal was crippling in some instances, and the low dps is nearly a deal-breaker. I tried to be fair to the AT though, because yeah. When it's on point it's top notch. It seriously *rules* at single target heals and pulling people's butts out of the fire. Honestly if they reverted ego storm it'd easily be 6-7 out of 10. Maybe higher, if the heal had a bit more range.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Mind was my first character on here, and while I leveled it to 40, took him through all of Lemuria and halfway through Vibora before Alert hit [He couldnt take the crypt mob swarms] He was decent. But didnt thrill.
I promptly bought Void, and made like 5 of them. Though to be fair that was before on Alert, and my memories of playing mind then will be somewhat different then now, long after. He could tank with patience. He could heal [after a fashion, and trying to chase dying players who were out of the 50 foot range usually ended in my being killed too, so I stopped trying to actively heal people] Damage was pitifully low even then. Run up to the badguys, pop your hold, put them to sleep, sic the egos sprites on them and usually that was enough to take a goood chunk of the groups hitpoints down and you could EB and zap them slowly to death after. [Though if you were playing with anyone else? that totally didnt work, the other folks would beak the sleep almost instantly.]
A month after alert, Minds were little walking gods, nearly invincible, regenerating, between the compassion and the Sentinal aura synergy, and you could murder half the game, and that was really quite amusing. Then they nerfed sentinal aura and well my mind went to mod-modding duty and except for the occasional alert, has been ever since.
People tell me the 'game isnt challenging enough', I tell them to roll a Mind and play through the missions. Usually they laugh. Occasionally someone comes back a while later and tells me I wasn't wrong.
It isnt a bad At... but it's sure not one of the good ones, either.
Before On Alert, the Mind's CC was pretty good. I actually found the AT to be pretty good for soloing on a survival metric (the Mind AT was the first AT I stuck with for higher than the teen levels). But yes, it was sloooow to level even back then.
I still hate Incapacitate mechanics with a passion, especially on Ego Storm. Hate is too light a word to describe my feelings, honestly.
Comments
Not really surprised about the Mountain overview, tbh. Quicksand and Fissure are good, but they can't really hold up everything else. At some point, Earth's weaker dps is gonna rear its ugly head and cause issues.
Tap-spamming Cave-in w/ CripC is prob the best threat gen numerically, but then there's the issue of not getting Conc stacks sometimes (so half-charges).
The Night Avenger.. hahaha. Well, if there's any kit that can demonstrate how poorly ATs can be designed.. you'd look at the Impulse or the Automaton. BUT THEN, you'd prob also look at the Night Avenger. I mean, the damn thing has stealth, Ricochet Throw, shredded + DC, AND Strafing Run?! Like, how could that be bad, right? I'm sure this is gonna be greeea-
Then ya try playing one outside of easy solo missions and.. lol.
Even if it lacks an EU, even if it has pretty much no defenses and is squishier than the Fist, even if Conc doesn't work for its melee attacks, even if FotTiger doesn't work w/ its Ranged attacks.. I think I just hated being saddled w/ a melee end builder the most out of all of it. I wanted to level Ranged (cause its obv the easier way to level), but that damn melee end builder.. To think it could've had Boomerang Toss instead.
A waste of a good array of attack powers. Hybrid role doesn't do it any favors either- since it is a full and true glass cannon dps in how it actually plays out. Bonus healing? For what? lolololo-
Ranged Earth dps isn't too low if built around. I had a controller version using Manip and Cave In's stun + TK Maelstrom for lockdowns (Quicksand cleanup), and the dmg is decent. But since its Ranged Physical, Gravi just laughs at it. If I swapped Int PSS for Ego or Dex PSS, and Conc for Manip, could prob see 14k+ Cave Ins from that build w/ ES running- not that bad.
And as far as dps.. well Celestial prob has it worse. Maybe Sorcery too (though Sorc can make for nice pet builds). Force also is almost nothing dps-wise w/o FC or even Detonation. HW is also ofc down there, and has worse AoE reach than Earth. There is Melee-Earth, though- that is def the bottom-feeder.. mine as well give enemy health back for how effective it is.
Devs got a lotta buffing to do.. which they will never actually do :x
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Sure, shadowstriking targets may be fun, but that's not enough to justify picking this AT over the Specialist.
Right- but to be fair, if ya go the FotT + claws route, you have to use Ranged attacks for AoE anyways, since all the melee options are single-target. Since ATs have many more extra adv points to spare, ya can rank the toggle to help w/ this, but its rather silly when the only means of AoEing can't stack the toggle.
I mean, even if selecting one of the dps roles means skewing it to one style, I'd rather have that since at least that means a better dmg:threat ratio (and better end building- which it usually has to do if ya wanna use SR). Hybrid role means half the SS's innate boost is pretty much a waste (unless ya get an elixir), and its squishy arse pulls threat at lower damage.
(or they could've given the kit a Pres/%heal-scaling heal power.. but I guess that's asking too much for a premium AT :x )
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I don't plan on logging into this trainwreck of a game anymore.
RIP Caine
Aw, we'll miss ya Taco! Probably best to find another game for now, considering the way things are going.
Good luck man. :biggrin:
Handle:@XG3NX
Champions Online.. where we sell lockboxes by the dozen.
Well no surprise there since I myself am about to move on to LoL... Little attention is being give to CO and I am losing interest in it... The quests are monotonous and alerts are a hard grind. And even the customization is failing to make up for it
But then again... I still want a FF slot and I am short of 4900 zen XD! So if you have some Q crates... Sell em to me!!!! Pweaseee!
"Good can be found in heights, even in the deepest pits of evil" but "The valleys of evil always exist in the mountains of good."
~me
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Well that's sad
I keep waiting for Cryptic to give this game the update and overhaul it needs. But realistically it's a pipe dream.
Thanks for all the all the interesting posts. I really enjoyed this and other threads.
FYI? NEVER PLAY THE NIGHT AVENGER AT. If I leave with any advice, let that be the most important. God, that thing is atrocious. My favorite part of that AT is that I didn't have to level it anymore. Awful. Simply awful. 0/10. It's the only one I'll ever give that rating to.
RIP Caine
Not even the impulse? O.o
"Good can be found in heights, even in the deepest pits of evil" but "The valleys of evil always exist in the mountains of good."
~me
Dang...I was so looking forward to some of your future reviews...Scourge...Void...Tempest...on and on. It's strange that it's so hard to find good reviews of Archetypes, but there it is. Your work was the only good stuff I've ever found.
"Good can be found in heights, even in the deepest pits of evil" but "The valleys of evil always exist in the mountains of good."
~me
RIP Caine
"Good can be found in heights, even in the deepest pits of evil" but "The valleys of evil always exist in the mountains of good."
~me
Wooooooo!
I'm one happy frog.
Thank You!
It would be really shame to see this Project gone, I really like it, it's really useful for New Players as well :redface:
I agree totally, it's a great project. Maybe we should see about it being stickied. I have already referred a few people in-game to this thread.
I would suggest up in the combat and powers section or even better in the Champions Online Discussion section where it would be found easier...........make it so Cryptic!
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Excited you didn't leave us. :biggrin:
Sorry for the bit of a delay, I can do without most things but the 3 primary heirlooms are kinda key for this not taking literally forever. I think I'm gonna start up on the free archetypes I've not covered yet, for the benefit of free players that are just starting out, and aren't sure about making a cash investment yet. I'm open to feedback, however. If there's something people REALLY wanna see me cover, let me know.
Also, for completeness, I edited the entry on The Inventor with the teddy changes. I also added a clever tip from a player that picked the AT up because of the writeup, on how to run Bionic Shielding without having to fiddle with the energy builder constantly. I'll be going back over the AT writeups from time to time, when I hear essential tips or major changes happen.
RIP Caine
Weren't you supposed to be doing The Mind next? No one loves the healers.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
RIP Caine
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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RIP Caine
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
RIP Caine
Also, is there an AT oriented SG out there yet?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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It's been a hard slog. Best I can say right now is that leveling it can be annoying if you're alerting it, it's a breeze if you're doing just content, and it'll probably make a pretty solid tank-healer.
RIP Caine
Some of y'all have mentioned asking about an AT SG or ways to run. I've got a ton on my plate and I think that's a fun idea. I don't really have the time to do it, aside from my usual at leveling, but it'd be cool to try.
Y'all get something together I would probably offer to hop in from time to time.
RIP Caine
I'll be doing a writeup tomorrow, I'm still trying to put together thanks for the people who helped make it happen. Does it seem like I've been gone for a long time? Yeah, I was leveling the mind. I had to kick a bunch of people to make sure I gave this thing a fair review, and I needed a *lot* of help leveling it. Working on getting screen caps of everyone who helped out, because if I had to do this on my own I could not.
This is gonna be my hardest review, and definitely my most controversial. I'm gathering my last bits of data, and trying to find a way to tell the story of bringing this AT to 40 in a way that will do justice to it. I didn't forget you guys, it's just been REALLY difficult to see this one chunk of the project through. I think you'll find it worth the wait.
I'm also more than half way through a few other ATs, the Void is next. It's been my oasis in this storm.
RIP Caine
*runs away* :biggrin:
DOCTOR VERTIGO
The Mind
"Mixed bag" doesn't even begin to cover this AT. I normally try to add a bit of humor into my reviews, but put simply this thing is far too controversial (and complicated) for any of that. So, straight talk time. Let's do this.
Before I start I have to give a nod to a bunch of people that made leveling it possible. The Mind is *not* an easy AT to level. It was slow, it was frustrating, and at times it went badly enough that I considered flat out giving up on the project. So, a ton of thanks to Piffle, Aeolus, Pariba, Dogboy, Glass-Rose, Randomchance42, FriendlyBurrito, Mechakitty, Cthulhu-Fthagn, Crosschan, VoltageTeenTitan, Bluegrass Beast, and especially Sterga; who basically carried me through half of the life of this thing. If I missed you and you helped out? My bad, there were a lot of people. Know that I still appreciated it.
Why the laundry list? Because this thing is *bad* at low levels. A running gag among people who've been following me in game about this project is that it develops around level 23. At that point it's got its aura, and picks up it's first chunk of passive healing, because before that it's a SCRAMBLE to keep everyone healed up. The fact that it's only got the one heal worth speaking of (if you take psionic healing on this thing I hear a dev will actually ban you) and it's only got a 50 foot range? This is woefully inadequate for most alert-type content. FYI? It Actually gets useful sometime around 30-35. Before that? "Barely tolerable" is a good descriptor.
So, the nuts and bolts. The Mind is incredibly variable in efficiency, swinging wildly alert by alert from amazing healer to walking damage sponge. There are times where Ego Storm will flat out save your life (and your team) and other times where you might as well be throwing ramen noodles at your enemies. It's incredible at single target healing, and rather adequate at multi-target healing at endgame, probably being the easiest AT to try to tank-heal in big content. I can easily see one, well geared, main healing Fire and Ice. It's also a monster at solo content, sleep and ego blast/rude awakening is pretty fantastic at making most solo content just not matter. That said, the DPS is about at the level of one of those hot dog vendors throwing bottles. By 40 it's a struggle to cap 1.5k dps, even with mind opener and a bit of speccing for damage. Put simply, don't expect to ever leave the bottom of the DPS chart. I'd actually hazard a bet that The Mind is *literally* the lowest dps in the game, AT wise.
Surprisingly, however, in a pinch it makes a pretty good tank. Inevitably, as with all healers, you'll draw a fair amount of threat. The CC adds to it. Given the heal, the defensive nature of the passive, and the bubble? The only problem I never really had with The Mind was one of fragility. On the opposite side of the coin, MAN but CC got a nerf. Sleep might as well not exist in teams, ego storm with advantage gets broken instantly if one mob is broken out of it, the bubble single target hold is a charge and therefore kinda useless, and NONE OF IT works on any mob you'd actually care to use it on. This being the CC based archetype? That was a huge setback. A lot of the powers are legitimately useless in nearly every scenario, this AT lives and breathes on the merits of maybe 3 powers. Even ego sprites are kinda weak, they feel more like an afterthought and don't really seem to help much when you actually need them to. But hey, at least they do awful DPS!
I guess the TL;DR here is that this AT works so differently in different settings that I'm not surprised at all about the reactions people have to it. Some love it, some think it's literally the worst thing ever. How you play, and who you team with, will dictate your enjoyment. Keep that in mind when you consider my score, I'm trying to take the gestalt of this AT into consideration.
As for the costume? I kinda wanted to use parts I normally never do, and really liked the idea of making the mind a magitech styled character. As usual, I tried to avoid the stereotype of the AT, so a telepath was completely out of the question. A technomage with a life force manipulating helmet, on the other hand...
Advantages:
- It has one of the best heals in the game. Empathic is *fantastic*.
- BUBBLES! Heals with bubbles are wonderful.
- Lazy healing is a great idea in theory, and this thing comes with many of the tools to do so effectively. Defensive buffing passives? Passive healing auras? Bubbles? It's got the right tools.
- Incredibly efficient for solo play. As long as you're not on high difficulties the CC is very handy, especially since ego sprites don't break sleep. The fact that you can add damage to the ego blast with an advantage, out of sleep, sorta makes up for the weak dps otherwise.
- Solid single target healing. A Mind and a good DPS character can freight train a lot of content.
- Passive healing ramps up the toggle, making the energy a non-issue and maxing out dps rather quickly. Lots of people want Manipulator instead of Compassion. I'm firmly in the opposite camp.
Disadvantages:
- Wake me up when we hit level 30? You're gonna need some help or luck to get this thing to higher levels. The soloing content part is less of an issue. Alerts can be incredibly hit or miss.
- Very inconsistent. There are times where it feels incredibly powerful, and other times where you might as well not exist at all. This varies based on alert type, specific enemy, team composition, team experience... It's just impossible to ever guess in the beginning of an alert how things will end up. That's pretty nerve-wracking.
- Crowd control in CO is pathetic. If it even works on a mob, odds are the mob will probably be dead within a second anyway. There are literally 2 instances it's ever handy: when someone overpulls, because ego storm can lock them down enough for backup to arrive, and pvp. The latter? Yeah, good luck actually *killing anyone* in pvp.
- PATHETIC DPS.
- Dear Cryptic: WHY DON'T ANY SUPPORT CHARACTERS HAVE A REZ BESIDES THE RADIANT? Seriously, this is starting to make my eye twitch. It's such a basic necessity for a healer in any mmo.
Rating:
3/10
HEAR ME OUT. It's good when it's good, which is actually a pretty good variety of settings. When it's bad it's flat out unplayable. It's good at endgame, and TERRIBLE to level. Because it varies so heavily, I had to give it a moderate score to accurately represent all situations. I'd call it average, and give it a 5/10, but the leveling process is bad enough that I have to dock it a couple of points. It took me months to level, I've never experienced anything like it.
One thing that would make it better:
#telepathynow
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*Snerk* but seriously, the CC mechanic needs an overhaul. I'd say put ego storm back to pre-nerf states, where it maintained the hold and reapplied it on break until resistance stacks hit 3. That one change would probably bump this AT up several notches in terms of usefulness.
RIP Caine
In theory the mind is actually a very well designed AT. The problem is that CC in CO is mostly unnecessary.While most players don't require heavy support. In those instances where support is needed (i.e. Rampages) the Mind is missing a resurrection power.
As far as crowd control goes. I liked your suggestion for buffing Ego Storm. It got hit much t0o hard with the Nerf Bat. I also found the single target hold useful for things like Brick busters. Also CC can be used as a way to stack debuffs on hard targets. Provided you chose the specs for that.
I found the CC to work the best when I was on a team that I probably didn't want to be on anyway. Low level pugs? I was a cc god. But, you know, low level pug. That has problems well beyond how my ego storm performed.
Remember though that I'm also comparing it to *literally anything else you could do at that moment*, as well as where CC has been in the past, and how it behaves anywhere else. It's situational, which IMO was an issue with the mind across the board. As I mentioned, though, when it works it works very well.
And yeah, that rating took me a full day to come to. It's useful in a lot of instances. But the leveling hurt, the short range of the heal was crippling in some instances, and the low dps is nearly a deal-breaker. I tried to be fair to the AT though, because yeah. When it's on point it's top notch. It seriously *rules* at single target heals and pulling people's butts out of the fire. Honestly if they reverted ego storm it'd easily be 6-7 out of 10. Maybe higher, if the heal had a bit more range.
RIP Caine
I promptly bought Void, and made like 5 of them. Though to be fair that was before on Alert, and my memories of playing mind then will be somewhat different then now, long after. He could tank with patience. He could heal [after a fashion, and trying to chase dying players who were out of the 50 foot range usually ended in my being killed too, so I stopped trying to actively heal people] Damage was pitifully low even then. Run up to the badguys, pop your hold, put them to sleep, sic the egos sprites on them and usually that was enough to take a goood chunk of the groups hitpoints down and you could EB and zap them slowly to death after. [Though if you were playing with anyone else? that totally didnt work, the other folks would beak the sleep almost instantly.]
A month after alert, Minds were little walking gods, nearly invincible, regenerating, between the compassion and the Sentinal aura synergy, and you could murder half the game, and that was really quite amusing. Then they nerfed sentinal aura and well my mind went to mod-modding duty and except for the occasional alert, has been ever since.
People tell me the 'game isnt challenging enough', I tell them to roll a Mind and play through the missions. Usually they laugh. Occasionally someone comes back a while later and tells me I wasn't wrong.
It isnt a bad At... but it's sure not one of the good ones, either.
I still hate Incapacitate mechanics with a passion, especially on Ego Storm. Hate is too light a word to describe my feelings, honestly.
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