It would be nice if they started offering stuff purchased from Cstore as items rather than direct unlocks - so you can gift service items such as this GCap increase or costume or character slots, or costume packs to a friend by buying the item and giving it to them.
Doing this would not lose Cryptic money, in fact it could increase income as people purchase items to give or resell which they have not previously been able to.
I would settle for being able to buy a friend game time without being threatened to have their account suspended.
power colouring
emanation points,
hideout
free retcons for certain times,
free slots for level 40's
free costumes form store
free premium archetypes from the store,
500zen stipend a month
4 bags instead of 2,5 after a certain
bonus xp under, I think it's level 10,15,20
power colouring
emanation points,
hideout
free retcons for certain times,
free slots for level 40's
free costumes form store
free premium archetypes from the store,
500zen stipend a month
4 bags instead of 2,5 after a certain
bonus xp under, I think it's level 10,15,20
Many of the gold member *perk*s can be purchased by silver members. There are very few *exclusives* for gold members such as the zen stipend. Why should a silver member upgrade to gold when many of the gold member perks can be purchashed via micro transaction? For example, free form slots can be purchased as well as retcons, costumes and bag slots.
It is not cheap or easy to run an online game. The main thing needed is income. No matter how you slice it, game subscriptions are the main source of income for MMO's. If less people subscribe to the game and just use microstransactions, we may see less game development which is an issue already. I've seen on this forum and in game complaints about how other Arc games are getting new game content constistantly and not Champions. Hmm.. why is that? More than likely because they have more *subscribers* and better gold membership exclusives.
As I have mentioned in an earlier post, I do not have an issue with the resource cap increase. I just wish that there were more gold member *exclusives* that cannot be purchased or accessed by silver members to make having a gold membership worthwhile.
Many of the gold member *perk*s can be purchased by silver members. There are very few *exclusives* for gold members such as the zen stipend. Why should a silver member upgrade to gold when many of the gold member perks can be purchashed via micro transaction? For example, free form slots can be purchased as well as retcons, costumes and bag slots.
It is not cheap or easy to run an online game. The main thing needed is income. No matter how you slice it, game subscriptions are the main source of income for MMO's. If less people subscribe to the game and just use microstransactions, we may see less game development which is an issue already. I've seen on this forum and in game complaints about how other Arc games are getting new game content constistantly and not Champions. Hmm.. why is that? More than likely because they have more *subscribers* and better gold membership exclusives.
As I have mentioned in an earlier post, I do not have an issue with the resource cap increase. I just wish that there were more gold member *exclusives* that cannot be purchased or accessed by silver members to make having a gold membership worthwhile.
Neverwinter, aka CashCow Online, does not have subscriptions or LTS options. It makes far more money than CO. In fact, companies go F2P because they can earn MORE money than with subscription. It is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to go gold or LTS for customers. Silver players don't get a $50 FF slot for simply reaching level 40. That ALONE makes both sub models far cheaper for the alcoholic than staying silver.
I don't see the problem with paying and getting more, how is that an issue?
Right now it's pay...don't pay...it's pretty close to the same.
LTS and gold subs are ultimately an income loss for Cryptic. LTS espescially. It's $800 in FF slots for $300 and that doesn't even include all of the other things you get for buying. Every time a gold or LTS hits 40, that's a $50 FF slot Cryptic doesn't get money for.
If you were concerned about the company's income, you would be championing the removal of these income losses so that everyone had to pony up $50 when they wanted FF slots instead of complaining that you have to play the same content as those disgusting poor people.
Many of the gold member *perk*s can be purchased by silver members. There are very few *exclusives* for gold members such as the zen stipend. Why should a silver member upgrade to gold when many of the gold member perks can be purchashed via micro transaction?
Because it's considerably cheaper and you get much much more. I see a BIG difference between "you CAN buy all this individually, at a cost" and "here's the whole slew at a low low monthly price".
Neverwinter, aka CashCow Online, does not have subscriptions or LTS options. It makes far more money than CO. In fact, companies go F2P because they can earn MORE money than with subscription. It is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to go gold or LTS for customers. Silver players don't get a $50 FF slot for simply reaching level 40. That ALONE makes both sub models far cheaper for the alcoholic than staying silver.
LTS and gold subs are ultimately an income loss for Cryptic. LTS espescially. It's $800 in FF slots for $300 and that doesn't even include all of the other things you get for buying. Every time a gold or LTS hits 40, that's a $50 FF slot Cryptic doesn't get money for.
If you were concerned about the company's income, you would be championing the removal of these income losses so that everyone had to pony up $50 when they wanted FF slots instead of complaining that you have to play the same content as those disgusting poor people.
Don't let your bank account reply for you. You are really reaching from what I said.
My point was simply, I want more incentive to be gold. The only big benefit for most is FF and lvl a 40 get a new toon, I wasn't aware that wasn't for silvers as well (that sounds like a big gold incentive)
Hideout: Free arc ones
Xp: What does it matter when double Xp is at least once a month
Archtypes: Do people really buys those?
Retcon: not much of a PVP and I burn through those. I still burn G in the PH.
500z: It's nice to have no doubt.
Costume slots: I didn't even notice the free ones. When you have like 40 acct slots and maxed single slots.
When I went gold I went for the tailor. None of the above was a factor except it was nice to not have to buy gold costume anymore. Everyone has their own reason for going gold or LT, all I said an all I meant was....I want more reasons to go gold. Anything else you might think I meant is unfortunate on your part. If gold cap gets CO a big chunk of money great, I hope they use that to increase the game and get more people to sub.
I also agree LTS doesn't make them much money but more than silvers who don't spend anything. So if this works..great!
Neverwinter, aka CashCow Online, does not have subscriptions or LTS options. It makes far more money than CO. In fact, companies go F2P because they can earn MORE money than with subscription. It is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to go gold or LTS for customers. Silver players don't get a $50 FF slot for simply reaching level 40. That ALONE makes both sub models far cheaper for the alcoholic than staying silver.
While many MMO's have adapted the F2P business model, some older ones are still around because of the way they choose to handle it. For example, Everquest is on its 21st expansion, 18 years online and a strong loyal subscription base and has adapted to F2P. This is because subscribers recieve more benefits to keep their subscriptions and to spend money in the game marketplace than CO does. I am not disputing the cost between silver and gold memberships; I disputing whether its worth it or not to have the gold membership.
It seems players who pay for their game subscriptions have a certain air of *entitlement*, that they should have access to content that free players do not and cannot have unless they subcrible. Of course, players who don't subscribe have their own sense of *entitlement* because they pay a la carte (microtransactions) and want more game access as well. In my opinon, many MMO's have made a big mistake by trying to please everyone equally when it comes to subscription level and content access.
I do agree with you on this point: if CO wanted players to be on the same level, Cryptic should have adopted either Neverwinter's no subscription model or Final Fantasy XIV's subscription model (no F2P). Both games are popular and both games make more money and have more content than CO.
Neverwinter, aka CashCow Online, does not have subscriptions or LTS options. It makes far more money than CO. In fact, companies go F2P because they can earn MORE money than with subscription. It is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to go gold or LTS for customers. Silver players don't get a $50 FF slot for simply reaching level 40. That ALONE makes both sub models far cheaper for the alcoholic than staying silver.
While many MMO's have adapted the F2P business model, some older ones are still around because of the way they choose to handle it. For example, Everquest is on its 21st expansion, 18 years online and a strong loyal subscription base and has adapted to F2P. This is because subscribers recieve more benefits to keep their subscriptions and to spend money in the game marketplace than CO does. I am not disputing the cost between silver and gold memberships; I disputing whether its worth it or not to have the gold membership.
It seems players who pay for their game subscriptions have a certain air of *entitlement*, that they should have access to content that free players do not and cannot have unless they subcrible. Of course, players who don't subscribe have their own sense of *entitlement* because they pay a la carte (microtransactions) and want more game access as well. In my opinon, many MMO's have made a big mistake by trying to please everyone equally when it comes to subscription level and content access.
I do agree with you on this point: if CO wanted players to be on the same level, Cryptic should have adopted either Neverwinter's no subscription model or Final Fantasy XIV's subscription model (no F2P). Both games are popular and both games make more money and have more content than CO.
and thus have bigger Dev teams. If they wanted this game to make real money, they would have to sink a good chunk in to get it to the point it could make money. As it stands now, CO is stuck in a rut where they will pretty much stay about where it is until it dies.
I do agree with you on this point: if CO wanted players to be on the same level, Cryptic should have adopted either Neverwinter's no subscription model or Final Fantasy XIV's subscription model (no F2P). Both games are popular and both games make more money and have more content than CO.
You're forgetting about Star Trek Online, which seems to be doing just fine in the Revenue To Fund Future Development department. They're on the same Silver/Gold/Lifetime model as CO, but their cash shop includes all of the services and quality-of-life stuff that's strictly behind the subscriber wall here. Folks have been lobbying for parity for years. I'm glad they picked the resource cap first, since it was a tangible drag on our economy.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Welp, I've been begging for this basically since free to play launched. Kinda considered it a pet project. This is probably the biggest QOL increase for silvers I can think of.
Nothing else to say except that this is gonna be WONDERFUL for people with freeform slots and the like that buy everything piecemeal. Very well done guys.
FYI, on the topic of subs? Power coloration alone makes it worth it to me. Also, the free arc hideouts are expired, and no longer work. And don't forget subscriber bonus costumes and such, a bigger bag, higher q refinement, etc... As lifers we notice it less because we got it all front-loaded. Someone did the math a while back, and all of the stuff you get from a sub equals out to at least a thousand dollars worth of stuff. LTS pays for itself instantly if you ever intend to alt.
On the flip side, if I had to buy one slot at a time and all of the bags and such, I'd probably have quit after a month. I have character ADHD, I pretty much have to be working on a new one constantly in every game I play. That's why Neverwinter never grabbed me, that's why STO has a hard time keeping me, I've been an altaholic in every game I've ever played. The sub is good for people like me because otherwise I'da just swapped to a game that DID offer subs and lots of character slots.
Devil's advocate here. Anything that makes life easier for the silver players keeps the game going and should be celebrated. Without them, we'd probably be closed a long time ago.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Welp, I've been begging for this basically since free to play launched. Kinda considered it a pet project. This is probably the biggest QOL increase for silvers I can think of.
Nothing else to say except that this is gonna be WONDERFUL for people with freeform slots and the like that buy everything piecemeal. Very well done guys.
FYI, on the topic of subs? Power coloration alone makes it worth it to me. Also, the free arc hideouts are expired, and no longer work. And don't forget subscriber bonus costumes and such, a bigger bag, higher q refinement, etc... As lifers we notice it less because we got it all front-loaded. Someone did the math a while back, and all of the stuff you get from a sub equals out to at least a thousand dollars worth of stuff. LTS pays for itself instantly if you ever intend to alt.
On the flip side, if I had to buy one slot at a time and all of the bags and such, I'd probably have quit after a month. I have character ADHD, I pretty much have to be working on a new one constantly in every game I play. That's why Neverwinter never grabbed me, that's why STO has a hard time keeping me, I've been an altaholic in every game I've ever played. The sub is good for people like me because otherwise I'da just swapped to a game that DID offer subs and lots of character slots.
Devil's advocate here. Anything that makes life easier for the silver players keeps the game going and should be celebrated. Without them, we'd probably be closed a long time ago.
As some of you may recall, I posted a thread some time ago detailing the financial benefits of being a subscriber. The math backing it up was a bit fuzzy, to say the least. With the release of the Impulse archetype, I decided to run the numbers again. This time, I'm comparing the cost of a Gold member versus a Silver player with all of the Gold bonuses they can get. It may surprise you.
So, let's get down to business:
Gold lifetime members have 16 character slots. Silver members have 2 character slots. The difference is 14.
Gold members get 2 free costume slots at levels 15 and 30. Silver members do not.
Gold members get 13 costume packs free. Silver players must pay separately.
Gold members get all archetypes, 7 travel powers, and all adventure packs for free. Silver members must pay separately.
Gold members get 4 inventory slots for every character. Silver players only have 1, and all purchased slots are per-character.
Gold members have the option of purchasing 4 additional bank slots with in-game currency. Silver players must purchase them with Cryptic Points on a per-character basis.
Gold members have 100 auction house slots. Silver players have 10, and must buy them on a per-character basis.
Gold members receive 1 free hideout. Silver players must pay separately.
Taking these into account, let's add up the prices listed in the Cryptic Store to get the final Cryptic Point balance necessary to purchase all of these options:
14 character slots:7,850
1 account costume slot:450
13 costume packs:5,320
14 archetypes:12,880
7 travel powers:2,940
3 adventure packs:1,260
48 inventory slots:28,800
64 bank slots:20,480
1,440 auction house slots:28,800
1 free hideout:500
You need 109,280 Cryptic Points to purchase all of the available Gold lifetime benefits. That's 21 bundles of 5,000 Cryptic Points at $62.50 USD each, 2 bundles of 2,000 Cryptic Points for $25.00 USD, and 1 bundle of 500 Cryptic Points for $6.25 USD, which comes to:
$1,368.75 USD
A lifetime Gold subscription is $299.99 USD. It comes with freeform power selection, no advertisements in voice chat, free character slots whenever you get a character to level 40, and 400 Cryptic Points per month, as well as all future archetypes. So, it may seem expensive, but in reality, you're saving 78.082922374429223744292237442922% compared to buying everything separately without a subscription. For anyone who buys a lifetime subscription, it literally pays itself off 71.298198799199466310873915943963 months before you actually buy it.
If you were to subscribe on a per-month basis, the numbers would be slightly different. Gold monthly members only get 8 character slots, versus 16 for lifetime members.
6 character slots:3,360
1 account costume slot:450
13 costume packs:5,320
14 archetypes:12,880
7 travel powers:2,940
3 adventure packs:1,260
24 inventory slots:4,800
32 bank slots:10,240
720 auction house slots:14,400
1 free hideout:500
The total is 56,150 Cryptic Points. 11 bundles of 5,000 for $62.50 USD each, 1 bundle of 1,000 for $12.50 USD, and 1 bundle of 500 at $6.25 USD, which comes to:
$706.25 USD
Gold monthly members also get freeform power selection, no advertisements in voice chat, 400 Cryptic Points per month, free character slots whenever you get a character to level 40, and all future archetypes. If the game shut down at any time in the next 47.114743162108072048032021347565 months, you're not losing any money. Feel free to interpret this in whatever way, shape, or form you please. I just thought it would be interesting to share.
Numbers are off, but 400 c-points is 500 z-points. subtract like 16 bucks for the adventure packs and a bit for the extra bag slot we get as silvers now. So... Can we not pretend gold members don't get a lot for the money?
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
I think the biggest single problem with the implementation of F2P in CO was the introduction of the stipend.
The basic history here is that it was promised back at the start that the C-store (now Z-store) would only be used for services (e.g. retcons) and cosmetic items. Then, sometime around On Alert, they decided that they should introduce non-cosmetic items, such as heals, resses, and buffs.
There was a giant uproar, which was eventually quelled by giving Gold subscribers a stipend that could be used to purchase those items. However, in practice no-one actually used the stipend to purchase those items, since they were rather useless -- instead, they used it on the services and cosmetic items that they previously paid for with real money... it would have been far better to either eliminate those items, or make the stipend only usable to buy consumables.
When you go to work, you are exchanging your time for someone else's money. You spend that other person's money on bills, food, and that smoking hot deal Cryptic gives you for subs.
Silver players are exchanging their time for someone else's money. This is the exact same thing you do every day when you go to work. Why are you criticizing silver players for doing the same thing you do? And why can't you be happy about the hundreds of dollars in free stuff you got? Is that seriously not good enough for you?
From Cryptic's end, it doesn't matter because they get money either way. The point isn't to get people to sub, the point is to get people to spend money.
From Cryptic's end, it doesn't matter because they get money either way. The point isn't to get people to sub, the point is to get people to spend money.
Cryptic can incentivize subscriptions on CO and STO all they want, but "I have to spend a set amount of money every month" is a psychological barrier many players won't get over. Cryptic is leaving money on the table by making CO's subscriber benefits an all-or-nothing proposition. Moving those benefits to the cash shop gives players the flexibility to pick and choose the services they like. Cryptic may not get $15/month, but those $5 transactions add up to more than the $0 they were getting.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I think the biggest single problem with the implementation of F2P in CO was the introduction of the stipend.
The basic history here is that it was promised back at the start that the C-store (now Z-store) would only be used for services (e.g. retcons) and cosmetic items. Then, sometime around On Alert, they decided that they should introduce non-cosmetic items, such as heals, resses, and buffs.
There was a giant uproar, which was eventually quelled by giving Gold subscribers a stipend that could be used to purchase those items. However, in practice no-one actually used the stipend to purchase those items, since they were rather useless -- instead, they used it on the services and cosmetic items that they previously paid for with real money... it would have been far better to either eliminate those items, or make the stipend only usable to buy consumables.
On the other hand, the stipend might have been proven to be an effective factor in attracting people to go gold sub, possibly even a recurring one. $15 upfront while getting a $5 worth of ZEN rebate does sound attractive.
Outside of the services, the stipend can be a good way to get lots of globals, considering that cosmic keys are a huge part of the player economy, to buy high-demand stuff at the AH. Just how often the services like renames or retcons are being used also differ from player to player too.
But, my biggest hope is they find a way to reintroduce ALL of the old costume unlocks + various costumes that ONLY were associated with slotting the item.
Oh God please do this. Plus the devices the OMs used to drop, the craftable AFs and costume unlocks and the perk unlocks. Put ALL of that in the Z-store and watch the cash roll in.
NOT chances to get... but the actual item, available for zen, unlocked on a single toon. Why you have not yet tapped into this source of revenue boggles my mind.
Dang, i still remember when i said that the stipend is a bad idea, since it keeps people from spending money on CO, aswell as free to play games bringing in more money than subscription based (1978's style) mmo's. And oh boy!, did i get a flaming-****storm over it from certain people...
Ok, i did refer to the lts-crowd, as "ticks" and said they are sucking the life out of the game by not spending money on it. (which is/was actually the case, yet for some reason people kept denying it..)
I am glad you guys have now come to the same conclusion. Hey, it only took you two years to realize, while it took me 10 seconds. (no biggie)
I think i am going to come back to CO, since NW is eating up my entire pocket money, which with the "soon to be" added Global cap-increase, definitely is better spent on CO.
Good to see the game is not on life support, anymore.
Dang, i still remember when i said that the stipend is a bad idea, since it keeps people from spending money on CO, aswell as free to play games bringing in more money than subscription based (1978's style) mmo's. And oh boy!, did i get a flaming-****storm over it from certain people...
You were given flak because you made those claims of facts when in fact none of us have access to subscription numbers or sales figures.
Ok, i did refer to the lts-crowd, as "ticks" and said they are sucking the life out of the game by not spending money on it. (which is/was actually the case, yet for some reason people kept denying it..)
It was never the case at all since you had no proof to show that all LTS'ers spend $0 dollars into the game beyond their LTS.
I am glad you guys have now come to the same conclusion. Hey, it only took you two years to realize, while it took me 10 seconds. (no biggie)
I don't see any overwhelming support of your opinions anywhere in thread to make such audacious claims. Read again: Overwhelming. One post or two don't count.
Ok, i did refer to the lts-crowd, as "ticks" and said they are sucking the life out of the game by not spending money on it. (which is/was actually the case, yet for some reason people kept denying it..)
I deny it. I'm LTS (finally), but let's be honest - 500 Z per month just isn't enough sometimes. That new ride, for instance, the Bison Model G? I want that ride. But if I'm going to get it in less than three months, I need to go spend some cash money. And I've already used up the 2000 Z I got as a stocking stuffer last Christmas...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Dang, i still remember when i said that the stipend is a bad idea, since it keeps people from spending money on CO, aswell as free to play games bringing in more money than subscription based (1978's style) mmo's. And oh boy!, did i get a flaming-****storm over it from certain people...
Ok, i did refer to the lts-crowd, as "ticks" and said they are sucking the life out of the game by not spending money on it. (which is/was actually the case, yet for some reason people kept denying it..)
I am glad you guys have now come to the same conclusion. Hey, it only took you two years to realize, while it took me 10 seconds. (no biggie)
I think i am going to come back to CO, since NW is eating up my entire pocket money, which with the "soon to be" added Global cap-increase, definitely is better spent on CO.
Good to see the game is not on life support, anymore.
I also don't give coins to homeless.
Or donate cancer research.
Or send money to some african princess who needs it to get her half 'o kingdom so she can send me Ton O' Gold and marry me and make me the king of her people.
Or buy lottery tickets.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Dang, i still remember when i said that the stipend is a bad idea, since it keeps people from spending money on CO, aswell as free to play games bringing in more money than subscription based (1978's style) mmo's. And oh boy!, did i get a flaming-****storm over it from certain people... 1978 style mmo- that's a short list,do you mean 1988 or maybe 1998?or maybe WOW which is still subs based and from 2004,or Runscape which has subscription but also the world record for biggest Free to play game.
Ok, i did refer to the lts-crowd, as "ticks" and said they are sucking the life out of the game by not spending money on it. (which is/was actually the case, yet for some reason people kept denying it..) excuse me, I have a LTS acct, a gold acct and (due to being as bad with alts as Eviltaco) a new silver acct.
I regularly get pwe cards to spend on CO and that's on all 3. Yes I got some costumes for number 3,(the 100 pack), ok and some keys and a hideout.
My stipend usually goes on a costume if I haven't got it or keys for my.. um what's in box curiosity.
I am glad you guys have now come to the same conclusion. Hey, it only took you two years to realize, while it took me 10 seconds. (no biggie) what conclusion and whose post is stating they agree with you?
I think i am going to come back to CO, since NW is eating up my entire pocket money, which with the "soon to be" added Global cap-increase, definitely is better spent on CO.
Good to see the game is not on life support, anymore.
Many of the gold member *perk*s can be purchased by silver members. There are very few *exclusives* for gold members such as the zen stipend. Why should a silver member upgrade to gold when many of the gold member perks can be purchashed via micro transaction? For example, free form slots can be purchased as well as retcons, costumes and bag slots.
It is not cheap or easy to run an online game. The main thing needed is income. No matter how you slice it, game subscriptions are the main source of income for MMO's. If less people subscribe to the game and just use microstransactions, we may see less game development which is an issue already. I've seen on this forum and in game complaints about how other Arc games are getting new game content constistantly and not Champions. Hmm.. why is that? More than likely because they have more *subscribers* and better gold membership exclusives.
As I have mentioned in an earlier post, I do not have an issue with the resource cap increase. I just wish that there were more gold member *exclusives* that cannot be purchased or accessed by silver members to make having a gold membership worthwhile.
Nope, the other 2 games get more attention because they are big name IP's with free advertising and fans due to that name.
Neverwinter is completely F2pay(no misspelling)
new races are pay for. The current new variant race is a lockbox rare drop.
lockboxes abound,
new companions regualarly in the ze store to get people keep on buying,
events- transfer this amount of zen ingame and you will get a free....
sales each week to get people to spend. The usual gear tiers to keep people upgrading(and spending)
Your account bank has 16 slots.(or was it 8 to stat with) then 600zen for 8 more.
Your Guild bank, as opposed to her. Is 150k AD for the first bank tab, 300k AD for the second etc.
STO is subscription optional same as CO
here's their benefits: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7009153
NO account bank unless you have either subbed or you pay for it.
People play them because it's Dungeons and Dragons or it's Star Trek.
I also don't give coins to homeless.
Or donate cancer research.
Or send money to some african princess who needs it to get her half 'o kingdom so she can send me Ton O' Gold and marry me and make me the king of her people.
Or buy lottery tickets.
Great news but I gotta say that Mechanon is such an odd choice of a header image for this. Bankers, the auction house, or even that generic Z-Store superhero guy would be a better visual. Of course, the update is in a good place if the only real complaint is a nitpick over the aesthetics of the announcement.
Purely a function of time. I was going to visit a friend in the hospital that night, and I needed to rush out the blog before leaving for the weekend. Mechanon was the first set of banners I could find on my hard drive.
Are those unchecked bounds on a signed 32-bit int I see being fixed? Better to set a nice, round universal cap than deal with the panic of a player with -214,748G 36N 48L.
I don't think they'd allow players flipping around, I think players would just hit a cap, but... the numbers are roughly correct, I think. :P
1: the item better raise the cap account wide, or it's going to anger a LOT of people
2: Why did we have to wait so long to get something that STO has had for years?
1. Yep, account wide.
2. It ended up being easier than we'd thought, but it still took some dev time. We always have to carefully choose what the devs should focus on, and often something else will be a better investment.
Hmm... so, if a silver purchases the level cap increase to 200,000, is it permanent or will it have to be purchased again after a certain amount of time?
But, my biggest hope is they find a way to reintroduce ALL of the old costume unlocks + various costumes that ONLY were associated with slotting the item.
We've mentioned this a few times, we do have plans for legacy costumes etc. They won't happen right away, but we do know they exist, and we do want to find ways to get them back into the game, probably as part of a different and interesting system. No plans as of yet, though.
LTS and gold subs are ultimately an income loss for Cryptic. LTS espescially. It's $800 in FF slots for $300 and that doesn't even include all of the other things you get for buying. Every time a gold or LTS hits 40, that's a $50 FF slot Cryptic doesn't get money for.
Well... not quite. I wouldn't argue that it's a 1:1 correlation. Our subscriptions actually do pretty well, in large part because whoever set them up originally did a very good job of making Gold have a high value, so subscribers get a lot of benefits.
It also means that CO benefits from catering to long-term players, and keeping them happy. The longer a Gold player sticks around and keeps enjoying Champs, the more money we make. :biggrin:
Note: I can't verify this because Radio is out today, but I'm told that in STO, you'll need to log out and back in after buying the cap increase for it to take effect. I don't know for sure that this is the case for us, but it seems likely.
We've mentioned this a few times, we do have plans for legacy costumes etc. They won't happen right away, but we do know they exist, and we do want to find ways to get them back into the game, probably as part of a different and interesting system. No plans as of yet, though.
You could always ask them to reintroduce crafting for us. That wasn't a bad place for those legacy pieces. I even have a couple of ideas on how to start walking about it under the current Mods/Fusion systemhere.
I think it would be a serious benefit to be able to salvage mods and turn them into different mods respective to the character's chosen school. Or even use the scrap to fabricate equipment. Or we can fuse the scrap together for higher quality scrap for better stuff. :biggrin:
You could always ask them to reintroduce crafting for us. That wasn't a bad place for those legacy pieces. I even have a couple of ideas on how to start walking about it under the current Mods/Fusion systemhere.
I think it would be a serious benefit to be able to salvage mods and turn them into different mods respective to the character's chosen school. Or even use the scrap to fabricate equipment. Or we can fuse the scrap together for higher quality scrap for better stuff. :biggrin:
I must agree a "crafted costume" system would be an excellent idea. Put the components all of the game world maps again, you could really energize the game population.
Throw in the requirement to use some Drifter salvage per crafted part, and the game can connect crafted costume parts to lockboxes and revenue. It could really work.
We've mentioned this a few times, we do have plans for legacy costumes etc. They won't happen right away, but we do know they exist, and we do want to find ways to get them back into the game, probably as part of a different and interesting system. No plans as of yet, though.
Well i strongly recommend that you make plans and get them back into the game as soon as physically possible due to the sheer fact that since they were removed from CO when on-alert hit [i still don't understand why they were removed from the drop tables, the items still work fine as do all their effects]People have been asking for them to be returned either as was or in a new implicated form, personally i'm leaning more towards having a crafting system to make the costumes/items as that would
A: give us the stuff back which was wrongly removed.
B: Give us something to actually do, other than make char #764372844832 and fight each other.
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Well... not quite. I wouldn't argue that it's a 1:1 correlation. Our subscriptions actually do pretty well, in large part because whoever set them up originally did a very good job of making Gold have a high value, so subscribers get a lot of benefits.
It also means that CO benefits from catering to long-term players, and keeping them happy. The longer a Gold player sticks around and keeps enjoying Champs, the more money we make. :biggrin:
I'm sure the minor money not made comping high rollers free stuff is off-set by the poo-load of keys bought.
My point was more showing the good deal people are getting for going LTS / gold and that whining how it isn't good enough is stupid and petty. But with nice words instead of mean ones. Mostly. Whatever. I have a sudden urge to watch Through the Wormhole now.
The resource cap increase is going to have some interesting implications on the in-game market, the primary one of which would be that silver players will have more capacity for holding G, thus making them more capable of buying goods, provided they can magic up the G to do so...which brings up another issue
At the current moment the in-game market is slowly declining due to two main things
1: Silver players primarily had to use keys to afford anything over 250G, basically meaning they have to buy "money" before they could buy anything, which thankfully the resource cap increase has pretty much solved
2:goods in the game are based off the value of said item compared to a key multiplied by rarity of said item, as a result items that have some intrinsic value and use come in at 100G or more, with some of the best stuff in the game being priced in the 1-5K G range. unfortunately, the time/effort ratio to acquire the amount of G for the goods the hard way is poor to the point where most people simply can not afford the items within the shelf-life of the good [typically 2 weeks before it drops off the AH/Market for a few months] as a result the wealth in CO, both resource and item wise is being distributed extremely lopsidly which is invedablly going to result in the market chocking itself to out.
one potential fix would be slightly increasing the resource aquiation rates in-game [for example, increasing the amount of G in smash alerts form 3G to 10G]
where as another would be introducing a secondary commodity which is rare and useful enough to warrant innate value in the item, but it would also have to be consumable and un-obtainable though the c-store or the q-store [heroic gear is a non consumable example of this] so maybe high end mod boxes with more than a horrid contens [srsly who wants to spend that much for a single mod?] or a double xp booster or something.
taking the first option wold result in more even distrubtion of in-game wealth, which would make things more affordable [once the minor inflation had subsided] where as taking the second one would give more options to barter with
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Note: I can't verify this because Radio is out today, but I'm told that in STO, you'll need to log out and back in after buying the cap increase for it to take effect. I don't know for sure that this is the case for us, but it seems likely.
Confirmed, this is how this will work. I'm editing this into the blog, and it's already in the C-Store tooltip.
I must agree a "crafted costume" system would be an excellent idea. Put the components all of the game world maps again, you could really energize the game population.
Throw in the requirement to use some Drifter salvage per crafted part, and the game can connect crafted costume parts to lockboxes and revenue. It could really work.
"Plans but no plans". So the most probable outcome is they never see the light of day again.
Frankly, if they are not a for-cash item I don't see how they will be able to fund development of any system to get them back into the game.
Ok, i did refer to the lts-crowd, as "ticks" and said they are sucking the life out of the game by not spending money on it. (which is/was actually the case, yet for some reason people kept denying it..)
Because it's untrue.
We front-loaded our buy-in to this game, full stop. And I don't know a single lifer, myself included, that doesn't spend at least 20 bucks a month on random stupid stuff. In social gaming, they call players like that "whales" and they make up 40% of the total revenue those games take in. We're arguably that, lots of people see us as avatar chat with a combat system and spend money as if it were the case. "Get good value for our money" =/= never spend money. That new years day cc Jasin and I just did where we gave out like 400 bucks worth of stuff proves that well enough.
Personally, I don't and never have seen this as a point of conflict. We've had too much subber vs free to player argument over the years, and I think it's time we moved past that for the good of the game. Hell, I wouldn't even argue with a purchasable token that lets you change the power colors on a character. Make it a per toon purchase for like 10 bucks? I know people would buy it and it'd make us more money. In the end, that's what matters.
Would it devalue current subs? Absolutely not. I posted hard numbers (I'm considering redoing the math though, because of the new free benefits we all get) that prove that subs are still worth it. But this lets people who play one alt do so happily as a silver player. There's *absolutely* nothing wrong with that. It's time to get over the idea that silver players don't contribute to the economy. It's been very well proven that this is not the case.
The resource cap increase is going to have some interesting implications on the in-game market, the primary one of which would be that silver players will have more capacity for holding G, thus making them more capable of buying goods, provided they can magic up the G to do so...which brings up another issue
<snip>
-WARNING: BORING ECONOMICS CHAT FROM A BANK NERD INCOMING-
It's going to play hell with the market, I bet. Instead of trading globals with golds and keys with silvers, we're gonna be moving entirely to a g-based economy. We haven't had that since free to play hit, which is part of why the inflation is so bad. No G sinks and we didn't trade for G with quite a large percentage of our population. If we had the g-cap increase at f2p launch? I'd wager players like Bacon woulda had a lot harder of a time hitting the G cap. That g spreading out between the players is going to lead to some short term market behavior that I think an economist would probably kill someone to study. I know I'm gonna be watching it closely. FWIW, my money's on the economy taking a while to stabilize. I'll explain that in a bit.
Want a fun thought experiment? Try to guess how the value of keys is gonna fluctuate in the next year. Right now we've got 1g-1z as a conversion rate for the most part. I am willing to bet solid money that this figure is going to go lopsided rather fast. Past experience has shown me that the flip-flop always favors the real money currency. I imagine a key is gonna be 200g within a year, as the economy stabilizes and some of the excess g from that exploit bleeds off. Short term, however, they're probably gonna plummet as silvers sell off their stockpiles to get real G. I know that's what I'd do, it's always better to have a legitimate currency than one that works off of fiat and the whims of the economy. A g is always worth a g, keys are way more variable.
Smart players that don't mind risk would do well to stockpile em when this happens. It's entirely possible that someone could double their money depending on how it goes.
2:goods in the game are based off the value of said item compared to a key multiplied by rarity of said item, as a result items that have some intrinsic value and use come in at 100G or more, with some of the best stuff in the game being priced in the 1-5K G range. unfortunately, the time/effort ratio to acquire the amount of G for the goods the hard way is poor to the point where most people simply can not afford the items within the shelf-life of the good [typically 2 weeks before it drops off the AH/Market for a few months] as a result the wealth in CO, both resource and item wise is being distributed extremely lopsidly which is invedablly going to result in the market chocking itself to out.
Sorta. Humans like round numbers, we had figures like we do now before keys even existed. *shakes cane* back in my day you used to have to pay 2-3 thousand globals for a buttcape.
one potential fix would be slightly increasing the resource aquiation rates in-game [for example, increasing the amount of G in smash alerts form 3G to 10G]
where as another would be introducing a secondary commodity which is rare and useful enough to warrant innate value in the item, but it would also have to be consumable and un-obtainable though the c-store or the q-store [heroic gear is a non consumable example of this] so maybe high end mod boxes with more than a horrid contens [srsly who wants to spend that much for a single mod?] or a double xp booster or something.
taking the first option wold result in more even distrubtion of in-game wealth, which would make things more affordable [once the minor inflation had subsided] where as taking the second one would give more options to barter with
The first option would create permanent inflation. What you're suggesting basically amounts to the mmo version of quantitative easing, and is actually something you use most effectively to fight deflation. Put simply, if there's too much money floating around, the worst thing you can do is infuse more money into the economy. Keynesian economics only work if there are goods worth purchasing, if at all (I feel the concept is overrated and causes devaluation of currency), but I'll get into that in a second.
The second option is far superior. We need more cash sinks. Right now, we basically only have retcons (dubious value, we can just alt) or costume changes (which 1000 day + or lifers get basically free anyway), barring the odd gear purchase or mod. The *true* hidden cost of the removal of crafted travel powers was that we lost one of the only good cash sinks in the game. Making a CTP was *expensive*, even if you farmed most of it yourself. We need something like that again, something (as you said) with high intrinsic value, preferably as a consumable.
It's the same issue the q-store is facing. If there's nothing to buy? Nobody exchanges, and the costs go up. Infusing more money into the economy (option a) will exacerbate the issue, because it doesn't solve the issue of supply and demand.This is that Keynesian thing I mentioned earlier. Economic intervention by cash infusion will just provide more inflation in a stagnant market. We just had a lot of the farmable q in game removed as an attempt to fight the inflation, for example. It did nothing, because in the end there's still not much to spend the stuff on. It's a more extreme example of what's wrong with our economy and the main reason I fought that change. It didn't address the problem, as the 490q to z ratio proves. Spreading out the G sure is a good start though, if the tailors were real I'd be buying stock in em right about now.
I believe I might have a good solution for this. We could use another service pack grab bag in lock box form. For a short time, that'd give players tangible and consumable items to trade for, and do quite a bit to pull some of the excess G out of our economy. Not to mention the fact that like every key in the game would evaporate overnight as people try for a freeform token. Mixed with the wealth distribution because of the cap removal, I'm almost positive that'd do a lot to fix our inflation issues in one fell swoop. I'm also positive cryptic would be printing money with how many keys they sell during that time. Unpopular opinion: I also feel like making retcons cost like 1k G again would be another good idea. Around On Alert they became half the price of what they were, both negating the need for retcon tokens (1250Z? No way, it only costs 500G to do! But I feel retcons should only be 1000z anyway) and seriously nuking one of the good cash sinks we had. And before anyone argues "but that'll cost me a huge amount of money! I retcon a lot" just consider that this is in fact exactly my point.
Also, I feel like the glut of excess currencies isn't helping this either. We shouldn't have 47087370 recognition types and snakebucks and q and g and z and d and all that. We are not and never have been a game that this was viable in. If it dropped back to q, g, z, and d, and the rest was done off of a g-based system by level? It'd do wonders for our economy, especially considering that then we'd be able to buy slotted gear for G. I've got a bit of a vendetta against silver champs rec, it's the gateway to a lot of things that'd be far superior to be able to sink real G into. I'm not even getting into wtf a level 40 is supposed to do with the 450 MC rec they've probably got stockpiled by that point.
I guess the TL;DR here is: distribute the wealth, put something temporary in to bleed off excess G, and then increase the g-sink a bit. That's IMO the only way we fix our inflation issues. Step 1: complete.
For the record? If party balls were 50g a pop I'd be the poorest person in the entire damn game. Taco be like:
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
I've always been under the impression that many people are globals poor, even among LTS / gold. It seems a few people have oodles of money, a lot of people have nothing, and there really isn't anyone in-between. Which I never understood. It's pretty easy to get globals without exploits.
Tempted not to log in for a bit, but that train wreak is hard to look away from.
I've always been under the impression that many people are globals poor, even among LTS / gold. It seems a few people have oodles of money, a lot of people have nothing, and there really isn't anyone in-between. Which I never understood. It's pretty easy to get globals without exploits.
Tempted not to log in for a bit, but that train wreak is hard to look away from.
Just like the Human world and it's financial Hierarchy Pyramid, Elites clinging and gouging... What Wreak? CO for Years?
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
I've always been under the impression that many people are globals poor, even among LTS / gold. It seems a few people have oodles of money, a lot of people have nothing, and there really isn't anyone in-between. Which I never understood. It's pretty easy to get globals without exploits.
Tempted not to log in for a bit, but that train wreak is hard to look away from.
the ones with a lot are the ones who spend their time trading.
1. get keys.
2. open boxes
3. sell stuff.
4. buy more keys
repeat..
I have stuff all Globals because I hate farming and can't be bothered selling things except by dumping them on the AH. Assuming I don't just give them away.
What I think, is going to be interesting, is not the key price over the next year but the Zen exchange.
With people only really needing it for extra keys(actually to use) or for a sale special instead of people buying supplies of keys as currency.
(complete grammar and punctuation failure there)
wreak is smell, wreck is crash. Mind you, the economy smells too.
sigh...Wish I could learn a second language.
The real issue with the silver cap is not some unreachable massive 200,000 G hoard, its being able to hold 2,000 G in their hands to buy the gamble box items like Skeleton Aura.
For the last couple of months there's been three dozen vehicles growing mold in the auction house at a price range that no silver player can hold in their pocket. It has been that way for years with costumes and other items.
This 'update' does address the cash in hand problem, but its kind of expensive in itself.
As a long time Silver player I'd like to sincerely thank everyone that made the Gcap raise possible.
I play both Neverwinter and Sto, but it's champs I always come back to. I bought the sto gcap raise the first day, swore if they ever added one to champs I'd buy it in a minute.
I have no cpoints left, but boy- does my bank look nice
While I'm on my soapbox iI'd like to say something about the silver players, or rather my experience being one. Yes, I'd love to have coloured powers, crazy emanation points, a bunch of free slots for hitting 40 and all the costumes I want [lets be fair: Tailor Online is why a lot of us still play ]
But I'm not gold, nor am I likely to be gold anytime soon. My game budget is 60 bucks a year. Not just for champs, but for alll the games I play. If I had saved that when I first started, I still wouldn't have enough for lifetime. And if I hadn't bought the things in play I wanted - costume sets, outfit slots, more characters?] I'd have probably quit long ago.
As it is I have a fine selection of costumes, a majority of the rare unlocks available from before Alert, and After, several vehicles, [credit to my gold friends for helping me pick those up!] 5 hideouts, 30 outfits per character, 18 40-levels, 33 character slots [8 of which are FF slots.]
Yes, we silvers buy stuff. We buy a LOT of stuff. And most silvers quietly keep playing in the background, enjoying themselves.
This is a game folks, we do this in our spare time because we enjoy it. We enjoy playing it, we enjoy hanging out with the folks we've met here [Most of whom are pretty darn nice!] We might not be as good in some aspects of the game as gold players [PVP comes to mind ]- but for whatever reason we choose not to sub... we still play, we still buy and we still have a good time. Isn't that the important part?
As for me, I'm going to be in the auction, flipping things. Which, to be fair, I did all along. But as of Thursday, I dont have to bug my gold friends to buy for me. That, too, is going to keep me here, and I think it's fair to say... I won't be the only one.
The real issue with the silver cap is not some unreachable massive 200,000 G hoard, its being able to hold 2,000 G in their hands to buy the gamble box items like Skeleton Aura.
For the last couple of months there's been three dozen vehicles growing mold in the auction house at a price range that no silver player can hold in their pocket. It has been that way for years with costumes and other items.
This 'update' doesn't address this problem at all.
Paying for a virtual piggy bank, to hold currency that can never use for things a player actually wants is another complete waste of money which will only disappoint and leave a bad taste in the people who get suckered by the scam.
If the goal is to drive players away with bad offers, it's working.
Last week at this hour there was 197 people in Millennium city, this week at the same time there is 87.
Step 1: General increase. Currently, all Silver players have a resource cap of 250G; were increasing that to 500G.
Step 2: C-Store item to increase the cap. For 500 ZEN, Silver players will be able to increase the cap to 200,000 G, pretty close to the technical maximum the engine can allow per character. This is an account-wide unlock. (If youve played STO, this works the same as an item theyve had for a while, in that it can only be purchased by Silvers.)
That's 500zen for an account wide change, so all characters on the account can now hold 200,000G Not the bank, the characters.
try to read the blog. how is 200, 000G under 2000G?
wow wonder if the constant complainers in zone have anything do do with people leaving
Comments
I would settle for being able to buy a friend game time without being threatened to have their account suspended.
(also, hopefully this goes in smoothly, and makes the devs less scared of CO's spaghetti code :x )
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
emanation points,
hideout
free retcons for certain times,
free slots for level 40's
free costumes form store
free premium archetypes from the store,
500zen stipend a month
4 bags instead of 2,5 after a certain
bonus xp under, I think it's level 10,15,20
here's the list, which is seriously in need of updating.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/3028173
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Neverwinter, aka CashCow Online, does not have subscriptions or LTS options. It makes far more money than CO. In fact, companies go F2P because they can earn MORE money than with subscription. It is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to go gold or LTS for customers. Silver players don't get a $50 FF slot for simply reaching level 40. That ALONE makes both sub models far cheaper for the alcoholic than staying silver.
LTS and gold subs are ultimately an income loss for Cryptic. LTS espescially. It's $800 in FF slots for $300 and that doesn't even include all of the other things you get for buying. Every time a gold or LTS hits 40, that's a $50 FF slot Cryptic doesn't get money for.
If you were concerned about the company's income, you would be championing the removal of these income losses so that everyone had to pony up $50 when they wanted FF slots instead of complaining that you have to play the same content as those disgusting poor people.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Because it's considerably cheaper and you get much much more. I see a BIG difference between "you CAN buy all this individually, at a cost" and "here's the whole slew at a low low monthly price".
Don't let your bank account reply for you. You are really reaching from what I said.
My point was simply, I want more incentive to be gold. The only big benefit for most is FF and lvl a 40 get a new toon, I wasn't aware that wasn't for silvers as well (that sounds like a big gold incentive)
Hideout: Free arc ones
Xp: What does it matter when double Xp is at least once a month
Archtypes: Do people really buys those?
Retcon: not much of a PVP and I burn through those. I still burn G in the PH.
500z: It's nice to have no doubt.
Costume slots: I didn't even notice the free ones. When you have like 40 acct slots and maxed single slots.
When I went gold I went for the tailor. None of the above was a factor except it was nice to not have to buy gold costume anymore. Everyone has their own reason for going gold or LT, all I said an all I meant was....I want more reasons to go gold. Anything else you might think I meant is unfortunate on your part. If gold cap gets CO a big chunk of money great, I hope they use that to increase the game and get more people to sub.
I also agree LTS doesn't make them much money but more than silvers who don't spend anything. So if this works..great!
You're forgetting about Star Trek Online, which seems to be doing just fine in the Revenue To Fund Future Development department. They're on the same Silver/Gold/Lifetime model as CO, but their cash shop includes all of the services and quality-of-life stuff that's strictly behind the subscriber wall here. Folks have been lobbying for parity for years. I'm glad they picked the resource cap first, since it was a tangible drag on our economy.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Welp, I've been begging for this basically since free to play launched. Kinda considered it a pet project. This is probably the biggest QOL increase for silvers I can think of.
Nothing else to say except that this is gonna be WONDERFUL for people with freeform slots and the like that buy everything piecemeal. Very well done guys.
FYI, on the topic of subs? Power coloration alone makes it worth it to me. Also, the free arc hideouts are expired, and no longer work. And don't forget subscriber bonus costumes and such, a bigger bag, higher q refinement, etc... As lifers we notice it less because we got it all front-loaded. Someone did the math a while back, and all of the stuff you get from a sub equals out to at least a thousand dollars worth of stuff. LTS pays for itself instantly if you ever intend to alt.
On the flip side, if I had to buy one slot at a time and all of the bags and such, I'd probably have quit after a month. I have character ADHD, I pretty much have to be working on a new one constantly in every game I play. That's why Neverwinter never grabbed me, that's why STO has a hard time keeping me, I've been an altaholic in every game I've ever played. The sub is good for people like me because otherwise I'da just swapped to a game that DID offer subs and lots of character slots.
Devil's advocate here. Anything that makes life easier for the silver players keeps the game going and should be celebrated. Without them, we'd probably be closed a long time ago.
RIP Caine
agreed
.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=132204
Numbers are off, but 400 c-points is 500 z-points. subtract like 16 bucks for the adventure packs and a bit for the extra bag slot we get as silvers now. So... Can we not pretend gold members don't get a lot for the money?
RIP Caine
The basic history here is that it was promised back at the start that the C-store (now Z-store) would only be used for services (e.g. retcons) and cosmetic items. Then, sometime around On Alert, they decided that they should introduce non-cosmetic items, such as heals, resses, and buffs.
There was a giant uproar, which was eventually quelled by giving Gold subscribers a stipend that could be used to purchase those items. However, in practice no-one actually used the stipend to purchase those items, since they were rather useless -- instead, they used it on the services and cosmetic items that they previously paid for with real money... it would have been far better to either eliminate those items, or make the stipend only usable to buy consumables.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Silver players are exchanging their time for someone else's money. This is the exact same thing you do every day when you go to work. Why are you criticizing silver players for doing the same thing you do? And why can't you be happy about the hundreds of dollars in free stuff you got? Is that seriously not good enough for you?
From Cryptic's end, it doesn't matter because they get money either way. The point isn't to get people to sub, the point is to get people to spend money.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Cryptic can incentivize subscriptions on CO and STO all they want, but "I have to spend a set amount of money every month" is a psychological barrier many players won't get over. Cryptic is leaving money on the table by making CO's subscriber benefits an all-or-nothing proposition. Moving those benefits to the cash shop gives players the flexibility to pick and choose the services they like. Cryptic may not get $15/month, but those $5 transactions add up to more than the $0 they were getting.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
On the other hand, the stipend might have been proven to be an effective factor in attracting people to go gold sub, possibly even a recurring one. $15 upfront while getting a $5 worth of ZEN rebate does sound attractive.
Outside of the services, the stipend can be a good way to get lots of globals, considering that cosmic keys are a huge part of the player economy, to buy high-demand stuff at the AH. Just how often the services like renames or retcons are being used also differ from player to player too.
Oh God please do this. Plus the devices the OMs used to drop, the craftable AFs and costume unlocks and the perk unlocks. Put ALL of that in the Z-store and watch the cash roll in.
NOT chances to get... but the actual item, available for zen, unlocked on a single toon. Why you have not yet tapped into this source of revenue boggles my mind.
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
Ok, i did refer to the lts-crowd, as "ticks" and said they are sucking the life out of the game by not spending money on it. (which is/was actually the case, yet for some reason people kept denying it..)
I am glad you guys have now come to the same conclusion. Hey, it only took you two years to realize, while it took me 10 seconds. (no biggie)
I think i am going to come back to CO, since NW is eating up my entire pocket money, which with the "soon to be" added Global cap-increase, definitely is better spent on CO.
Good to see the game is not on life support, anymore.
Ha, hey!, not to derail this thread but, did you/do you enjoy playing as a Blade?
---
When i am back, i will try to create a FF with reaper's embrace, no clue if it's going to be as great as playing the AT, though.
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Anyway, have a nice evening/day i have to get ready for work - -
You were given flak because you made those claims of facts when in fact none of us have access to subscription numbers or sales figures.
It was never the case at all since you had no proof to show that all LTS'ers spend $0 dollars into the game beyond their LTS.
I don't see any overwhelming support of your opinions anywhere in thread to make such audacious claims. Read again: Overwhelming. One post or two don't count.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I also don't give coins to homeless.
Or donate cancer research.
Or send money to some african princess who needs it to get her half 'o kingdom so she can send me Ton O' Gold and marry me and make me the king of her people.
Or buy lottery tickets.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Granted, most old-timers got that much G through various exploits, most of which are gone now.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
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Nope, the other 2 games get more attention because they are big name IP's with free advertising and fans due to that name.
Neverwinter is completely F2pay(no misspelling)
new races are pay for. The current new variant race is a lockbox rare drop.
lockboxes abound,
new companions regualarly in the ze store to get people keep on buying,
events- transfer this amount of zen ingame and you will get a free....
sales each week to get people to spend. The usual gear tiers to keep people upgrading(and spending)
Your account bank has 16 slots.(or was it 8 to stat with) then 600zen for 8 more.
Your Guild bank, as opposed to her. Is 150k AD for the first bank tab, 300k AD for the second etc.
STO is subscription optional same as CO
here's their benefits:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7009153
NO account bank unless you have either subbed or you pay for it.
People play them because it's Dungeons and Dragons or it's Star Trek.
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Let us hope you don't come to regret #2 some day.
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
Purely a function of time. I was going to visit a friend in the hospital that night, and I needed to rush out the blog before leaving for the weekend. Mechanon was the first set of banners I could find on my hard drive.
I don't think they'd allow players flipping around, I think players would just hit a cap, but... the numbers are roughly correct, I think. :P
No plans on changing anything but the per-character amount, to my understanding.
1. Yep, account wide.
2. It ended up being easier than we'd thought, but it still took some dev time. We always have to carefully choose what the devs should focus on, and often something else will be a better investment.
Perm.
We've mentioned this a few times, we do have plans for legacy costumes etc. They won't happen right away, but we do know they exist, and we do want to find ways to get them back into the game, probably as part of a different and interesting system. No plans as of yet, though.
Well... not quite. I wouldn't argue that it's a 1:1 correlation. Our subscriptions actually do pretty well, in large part because whoever set them up originally did a very good job of making Gold have a high value, so subscribers get a lot of benefits.
It also means that CO benefits from catering to long-term players, and keeping them happy. The longer a Gold player sticks around and keeps enjoying Champs, the more money we make. :biggrin:
You could always ask them to reintroduce crafting for us. That wasn't a bad place for those legacy pieces. I even have a couple of ideas on how to start walking about it under the current Mods/Fusion systemhere.
I think it would be a serious benefit to be able to salvage mods and turn them into different mods respective to the character's chosen school. Or even use the scrap to fabricate equipment. Or we can fuse the scrap together for higher quality scrap for better stuff. :biggrin:
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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I must agree a "crafted costume" system would be an excellent idea. Put the components all of the game world maps again, you could really energize the game population.
Throw in the requirement to use some Drifter salvage per crafted part, and the game can connect crafted costume parts to lockboxes and revenue. It could really work.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Well i strongly recommend that you make plans and get them back into the game as soon as physically possible due to the sheer fact that since they were removed from CO when on-alert hit [i still don't understand why they were removed from the drop tables, the items still work fine as do all their effects]People have been asking for them to be returned either as was or in a new implicated form, personally i'm leaning more towards having a crafting system to make the costumes/items as that would
A: give us the stuff back which was wrongly removed.
B: Give us something to actually do, other than make char #764372844832 and fight each other.
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
I'm sure the minor money not made comping high rollers free stuff is off-set by the poo-load of keys bought.
My point was more showing the good deal people are getting for going LTS / gold and that whining how it isn't good enough is stupid and petty. But with nice words instead of mean ones. Mostly. Whatever. I have a sudden urge to watch Through the Wormhole now.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
At the current moment the in-game market is slowly declining due to two main things
1: Silver players primarily had to use keys to afford anything over 250G, basically meaning they have to buy "money" before they could buy anything, which thankfully the resource cap increase has pretty much solved
2:goods in the game are based off the value of said item compared to a key multiplied by rarity of said item, as a result items that have some intrinsic value and use come in at 100G or more, with some of the best stuff in the game being priced in the 1-5K G range. unfortunately, the time/effort ratio to acquire the amount of G for the goods the hard way is poor to the point where most people simply can not afford the items within the shelf-life of the good [typically 2 weeks before it drops off the AH/Market for a few months] as a result the wealth in CO, both resource and item wise is being distributed extremely lopsidly which is invedablly going to result in the market chocking itself to out.
one potential fix would be slightly increasing the resource aquiation rates in-game [for example, increasing the amount of G in smash alerts form 3G to 10G]
where as another would be introducing a secondary commodity which is rare and useful enough to warrant innate value in the item, but it would also have to be consumable and un-obtainable though the c-store or the q-store [heroic gear is a non consumable example of this] so maybe high end mod boxes with more than a horrid contens [srsly who wants to spend that much for a single mod?] or a double xp booster or something.
taking the first option wold result in more even distrubtion of in-game wealth, which would make things more affordable [once the minor inflation had subsided] where as taking the second one would give more options to barter with
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
Somehow this makes the lil voice back of my head scream 'noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!'...
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Confirmed, this is how this will work. I'm editing this into the blog, and it's already in the C-Store tooltip.
"Plans but no plans". So the most probable outcome is they never see the light of day again.
Frankly, if they are not a for-cash item I don't see how they will be able to fund development of any system to get them back into the game.
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
Because it's untrue.
We front-loaded our buy-in to this game, full stop. And I don't know a single lifer, myself included, that doesn't spend at least 20 bucks a month on random stupid stuff. In social gaming, they call players like that "whales" and they make up 40% of the total revenue those games take in. We're arguably that, lots of people see us as avatar chat with a combat system and spend money as if it were the case. "Get good value for our money" =/= never spend money. That new years day cc Jasin and I just did where we gave out like 400 bucks worth of stuff proves that well enough.
Personally, I don't and never have seen this as a point of conflict. We've had too much subber vs free to player argument over the years, and I think it's time we moved past that for the good of the game. Hell, I wouldn't even argue with a purchasable token that lets you change the power colors on a character. Make it a per toon purchase for like 10 bucks? I know people would buy it and it'd make us more money. In the end, that's what matters.
Would it devalue current subs? Absolutely not. I posted hard numbers (I'm considering redoing the math though, because of the new free benefits we all get) that prove that subs are still worth it. But this lets people who play one alt do so happily as a silver player. There's *absolutely* nothing wrong with that. It's time to get over the idea that silver players don't contribute to the economy. It's been very well proven that this is not the case.
-WARNING: BORING ECONOMICS CHAT FROM A BANK NERD INCOMING-
It's going to play hell with the market, I bet. Instead of trading globals with golds and keys with silvers, we're gonna be moving entirely to a g-based economy. We haven't had that since free to play hit, which is part of why the inflation is so bad. No G sinks and we didn't trade for G with quite a large percentage of our population. If we had the g-cap increase at f2p launch? I'd wager players like Bacon woulda had a lot harder of a time hitting the G cap. That g spreading out between the players is going to lead to some short term market behavior that I think an economist would probably kill someone to study. I know I'm gonna be watching it closely. FWIW, my money's on the economy taking a while to stabilize. I'll explain that in a bit.
Want a fun thought experiment? Try to guess how the value of keys is gonna fluctuate in the next year. Right now we've got 1g-1z as a conversion rate for the most part. I am willing to bet solid money that this figure is going to go lopsided rather fast. Past experience has shown me that the flip-flop always favors the real money currency. I imagine a key is gonna be 200g within a year, as the economy stabilizes and some of the excess g from that exploit bleeds off. Short term, however, they're probably gonna plummet as silvers sell off their stockpiles to get real G. I know that's what I'd do, it's always better to have a legitimate currency than one that works off of fiat and the whims of the economy. A g is always worth a g, keys are way more variable.
Smart players that don't mind risk would do well to stockpile em when this happens. It's entirely possible that someone could double their money depending on how it goes.
Sorta. Humans like round numbers, we had figures like we do now before keys even existed. *shakes cane* back in my day you used to have to pay 2-3 thousand globals for a buttcape.
The first option would create permanent inflation. What you're suggesting basically amounts to the mmo version of quantitative easing, and is actually something you use most effectively to fight deflation. Put simply, if there's too much money floating around, the worst thing you can do is infuse more money into the economy. Keynesian economics only work if there are goods worth purchasing, if at all (I feel the concept is overrated and causes devaluation of currency), but I'll get into that in a second.
The second option is far superior. We need more cash sinks. Right now, we basically only have retcons (dubious value, we can just alt) or costume changes (which 1000 day + or lifers get basically free anyway), barring the odd gear purchase or mod. The *true* hidden cost of the removal of crafted travel powers was that we lost one of the only good cash sinks in the game. Making a CTP was *expensive*, even if you farmed most of it yourself. We need something like that again, something (as you said) with high intrinsic value, preferably as a consumable.
It's the same issue the q-store is facing. If there's nothing to buy? Nobody exchanges, and the costs go up. Infusing more money into the economy (option a) will exacerbate the issue, because it doesn't solve the issue of supply and demand.This is that Keynesian thing I mentioned earlier. Economic intervention by cash infusion will just provide more inflation in a stagnant market. We just had a lot of the farmable q in game removed as an attempt to fight the inflation, for example. It did nothing, because in the end there's still not much to spend the stuff on. It's a more extreme example of what's wrong with our economy and the main reason I fought that change. It didn't address the problem, as the 490q to z ratio proves. Spreading out the G sure is a good start though, if the tailors were real I'd be buying stock in em right about now.
I believe I might have a good solution for this. We could use another service pack grab bag in lock box form. For a short time, that'd give players tangible and consumable items to trade for, and do quite a bit to pull some of the excess G out of our economy. Not to mention the fact that like every key in the game would evaporate overnight as people try for a freeform token. Mixed with the wealth distribution because of the cap removal, I'm almost positive that'd do a lot to fix our inflation issues in one fell swoop. I'm also positive cryptic would be printing money with how many keys they sell during that time. Unpopular opinion: I also feel like making retcons cost like 1k G again would be another good idea. Around On Alert they became half the price of what they were, both negating the need for retcon tokens (1250Z? No way, it only costs 500G to do! But I feel retcons should only be 1000z anyway) and seriously nuking one of the good cash sinks we had. And before anyone argues "but that'll cost me a huge amount of money! I retcon a lot" just consider that this is in fact exactly my point.
Also, I feel like the glut of excess currencies isn't helping this either. We shouldn't have 47087370 recognition types and snakebucks and q and g and z and d and all that. We are not and never have been a game that this was viable in. If it dropped back to q, g, z, and d, and the rest was done off of a g-based system by level? It'd do wonders for our economy, especially considering that then we'd be able to buy slotted gear for G. I've got a bit of a vendetta against silver champs rec, it's the gateway to a lot of things that'd be far superior to be able to sink real G into. I'm not even getting into wtf a level 40 is supposed to do with the 450 MC rec they've probably got stockpiled by that point.
I guess the TL;DR here is: distribute the wealth, put something temporary in to bleed off excess G, and then increase the g-sink a bit. That's IMO the only way we fix our inflation issues. Step 1: complete.
For the record? If party balls were 50g a pop I'd be the poorest person in the entire damn game. Taco be like:
RIP Caine
No, +10.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Tempted not to log in for a bit, but that train wreak is hard to look away from.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Just like the Human world and it's financial Hierarchy Pyramid, Elites clinging and gouging... What Wreak? CO for Years?
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
the ones with a lot are the ones who spend their time trading.
1. get keys.
2. open boxes
3. sell stuff.
4. buy more keys
repeat..
I have stuff all Globals because I hate farming and can't be bothered selling things except by dumping them on the AH. Assuming I don't just give them away.
What I think, is going to be interesting, is not the key price over the next year but the Zen exchange.
With people only really needing it for extra keys(actually to use) or for a sale special instead of people buying supplies of keys as currency.
(complete grammar and punctuation failure there)
wreak is smell, wreck is crash. Mind you, the economy smells too.
sigh...Wish I could learn a second language.
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Mmm..Wonder if the cap is still 100k g for hideouts...Wonder if the cap for super groups and gold players is still 2^31 -1
But most of all...I wonder if I'll spend 10 hours or more in the tailor and fill up all my free-space with even more costumes...
Alas, I need to return to my grave in the abyss before it realizes that I'm missing from its icy embrace.
In order to make this change, we had to minorly alter the Gold cap, also to 200,000 G
everyone is the same limit.
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For the last couple of months there's been three dozen vehicles growing mold in the auction house at a price range that no silver player can hold in their pocket. It has been that way for years with costumes and other items.
This 'update' does address the cash in hand problem, but its kind of expensive in itself.
I play both Neverwinter and Sto, but it's champs I always come back to. I bought the sto gcap raise the first day, swore if they ever added one to champs I'd buy it in a minute.
I have no cpoints left, but boy- does my bank look nice
While I'm on my soapbox iI'd like to say something about the silver players, or rather my experience being one. Yes, I'd love to have coloured powers, crazy emanation points, a bunch of free slots for hitting 40 and all the costumes I want [lets be fair: Tailor Online is why a lot of us still play
But I'm not gold, nor am I likely to be gold anytime soon. My game budget is 60 bucks a year. Not just for champs, but for alll the games I play. If I had saved that when I first started, I still wouldn't have enough for lifetime. And if I hadn't bought the things in play I wanted - costume sets, outfit slots, more characters?] I'd have probably quit long ago.
As it is I have a fine selection of costumes, a majority of the rare unlocks available from before Alert, and After, several vehicles, [credit to my gold friends for helping me pick those up!] 5 hideouts, 30 outfits per character, 18 40-levels, 33 character slots [8 of which are FF slots.]
Yes, we silvers buy stuff. We buy a LOT of stuff. And most silvers quietly keep playing in the background, enjoying themselves.
This is a game folks, we do this in our spare time because we enjoy it. We enjoy playing it, we enjoy hanging out with the folks we've met here [Most of whom are pretty darn nice!] We might not be as good in some aspects of the game as gold players [PVP comes to mind
As for me, I'm going to be in the auction, flipping things. Which, to be fair, I did all along. But as of Thursday, I dont have to bug my gold friends to buy for me. That, too, is going to keep me here, and I think it's fair to say... I won't be the only one.
Thanks Again!
Step 1: General increase. Currently, all Silver players have a resource cap of 250G; were increasing that to 500G.
Step 2: C-Store item to increase the cap. For 500 ZEN, Silver players will be able to increase the cap to 200,000 G, pretty close to the technical maximum the engine can allow per character. This is an account-wide unlock. (If youve played STO, this works the same as an item theyve had for a while, in that it can only be purchased by Silvers.)
That's 500zen for an account wide change, so all characters on the account can now hold 200,000G Not the bank, the characters.
try to read the blog. how is 200, 000G under 2000G?
wow wonder if the constant complainers in zone have anything do do with people leaving
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