Power Comparison Log

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited August 2015

  ======================== Martial Arts - Claws ========================

  
  Power: Dragon's Claw
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Way of the Warrior
  Rotation: Shred Combo (Penetrating Strikes) -> Dragon's Claw (Tap)
  Thoughts: About where I expected it to fall. Used shred as the bleed damage slightly wins over Vipers Fangs.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Tiger's Bite
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Way of the Warrior
  Rotation: Shred Combo (Penetrating Strikes) -> Tiger's Bite (Tap)
  Thoughts: Tap damage seems low...
  
  
  
  
  Power: Tiger's Bite
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Way of the Warrior
  Rotation: Shred Combo (Penetrating Strikes) -> Tiger's Bite (Full Charge)
  Thoughts: Not common to see a power that's better using full charges.
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Martial Arts - Dual Blades ========================

  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Martial Arts - Single Blade ========================

  
  Power: Reaper's Embrace
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Way of the Warrior
  Rotation: Shred Combo (Penetrating Strikes) x3 -> Reaper's Embrace (Tap)
  Thoughts: If anyone knows a faster way to apply bleeds, do tell. I tried the lariats, scything blade, and settled on spamming the shred combo 3 times using aspect of the bestial for a reliable 5 bleeds. I tested tap and charged and they both leveled out to roughly the same output.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Tiger's Bite | Reaper's Embrace
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Way of the Warrior
  Rotation: Shred Combo (Penetrating Strikes) x3 -> Reaper's Embrace (Tap) -> Tiger's Bite (Full Charge)
  Thoughts: Adding in tiger's bite doesn't add much. Having to reapply shredded means damage lost from bleed/shred while building back up to 5 bleed stacks.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Martial Arts - Unarmed ========================

  
  Power: Shuriken Throw
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Kinetic Manipulation
  Rotation: Shuriken Throw
  Thoughts: For some reason I thought this one would be higher. I have memories of using this in PvP way back when and it being decent. Oh well.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Might ========================

  
  Power: Shockwave
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Electric Form
  Rotation: Shockwave
  Thoughts: Looked into Sonic Boom Generator for a sonic debuff. Sadly it's only 10% for 8 seconds, not worth it. Damage is pretty low, but power is considerably cheaper than most maintained aoes.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Haymaker
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Unstoppable
  Rotation: Demolish (Below the Belt) -> Haymaker Full Charge x4
  Thoughts: That Max Hit. I do find it interesting that it's falling slightly below Massacre, as my old previous tests had it slightly above. Perhaps macroing rotations had something to do with it.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Demolish
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 2 | Below the Belt
  Passive Used: Unstoppable
  Rotation: Demolish (Below the Belt) full charge
  Thoughts: R2 w/adv + full charges wound up having the same DPS as Rank 3 taps. Rank 3 taps is way too energy intensive.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Uppercut
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Unstoppable
  Rotation: Demolish (Below the Belt) -> Uppercut full charge x6
  Thoughts: Solid, but doesn't do much more over just using Demolish.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Beatdown
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Unstoppable
  Rotation: Demolish (Below the Belt) -> Beatdown
  Thoughts: So there is something very, very strange about Beatdown. I was wondering why the first two hits were coming up very short on crit rate. Turns out the first two hits hit for dual damage, one crushing, and another slashing. The slashing portion cannot crit and does 0 damage. The snare/root bonus damage advantage is likely falling on the severity layer as it was giving me no benefit. Or it doesn't work.
  
  
  
  
  
  Power: Defensive Combo
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Unstoppable
  Rotation: Demolish (Below the Belt) -> Defensive Combo
  Thoughts: Has better utility than Beatdown with the last hit being aoe, adding Defiance and having better threat generation.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Iron Chain
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Earth Form
  Rotation: Demolish -> Iron Chain
  Thoughts: Inferior version of Lash. Demolish hikes up its delay considerably.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Iron Chain
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Earth Form
  Rotation: Iron Chain
  Thoughts: Including a no debuff version. While adding in Demolish does increase output, it's a pain to flip between melee and range and likely won't be that much of an increase under actual game encounters.
  Edit: Updated parse as original one had a faulty delay.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Iron Cyclone
  Passive Used: Earth Form
  Rotation: Demolish -> Iron Cyclone
  Thoughts: So what this is telling me is if you want to go Might chains go Iron Cyclone all the way. Unless you really want the knockback adv on Iron Chain, which requires you to be enraged to get the most benefit, when chains don't scale off of melee damage. I think chains could use the strong arm adv too.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Munitions ========================

  
  Power: Two Gun Mojo
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 2 | Close the Gap
  Passive Used: Kinetic Manipulation
  Rotation: Two Gun Mojo
  Thoughts: Ranged physical does not get many options for debuffs, but Two Gun Mojo doesn't need them, it takes a top DPS spot just fine on its own. I might try rotating in Chest Beam, but I generally find debuffs not to be worth it unless they're around -20%.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Assault Rifle
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 2 | Mow 'Em Down
  Passive Used: Kinetic Manipulation
  Rotation: Assault Rifle
  Thoughts: Pretty good damage.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Gatling Gun
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Kinetic Manipulation
  Rotation: Gatling Gun
  Thoughts: Gatling Gun seems finicky with DUC.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Submachinegun Burst
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Kinetic Manipulation
  Rotation: Submachinegun Burst
  Thoughts: Nothing to note here.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Bullet Ballet
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 2 | Not Without Incident | Break the Trigger
  Passive Used: Way of the Warrior
  Rotation: Bullet Ballet
  Thoughts: This power would really benefit from being a single damage type. Because it's split between Crushing and piercing Demolish is not worth using here. It also doesn't help that Bullet Ballet pretty much doesn't benefit from DUC at all.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Power Armor ========================

  
  Power: Laser Sword
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 2 | Particle Acceleration
  Passive Used: Electric Form
  Rotation: Particle Accelerator -> Unified Theory -> Laser Sword
  Thoughts: Can anyone take away Laser Swords melee crown? Particle Accelerator and Unified Theory are so clunky and boring, but the buff so worth it.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Laser Sword
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 2 | Particle Acceleration
  Passive Used: Electric Form
  Rotation: Laser Sword
  Thoughts: You lose a bit of damage not using unified theory and particle accelerator, but the reality is those attacks are so clunky that in actual encounters they probably wouldn't add much. Kinda funny that Laser Sword does a ton of damage on its lonesome. I wonder if its damage was balanced around the damage penalty from the Laser Knight advantage.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Sorcery ========================

  
  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Supernatural - Bestial ========================

  
  Power: Massacre
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Way of the Warrior
  Rotation: Shred Combo (Penetrating Strikes) -> Massacre
  Thoughts: Massacre gaining bleed refresh and Shred gaining Shredded really brought it up in the ranks. I rather wish Unstoppable benefited bleed damage as it would be a nice passive for this. Something to note, bleeding usually does not benefit from DUC. I'm not sure why it sometimes does, but it would appear that refreshing bleeds causes DUC to work even less with them (as seen in the lower logs).
  
  
  
  
  Power: Bite
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Way of the Warrior
  Rotation: Shred Combo (Penetrating Strikes) -> Bite
  Thoughts: Very good damage for such a low tier power, sadly Massacre and Shred renders it pretty pointless.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Shred
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 2 |Penetrating Strikes
  Passive Used: Way of the Warrior
  Rotation: Shred Combo
  Thoughts: Also very good damage for a power that's dirt cheap in cost.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Frenzy
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Way of the Warrior
  Rotation: Shred Combo (Penetrating Strikes) -> Frenzy Combo
  Thoughts: Its advantage is not on the base layer so it's not worth using. I would say the damage is solid for an aoe, but melee cones are basically single target attacks with how limited they are. Not bad single target damage for how cheap in cost it is.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Supernatural - Infernal ========================

  
  Power: Infernal Blast
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Fiery Form
  Rotation: Firesnake -> Infernal Blast
  Thoughts: (Finds humor in the min hit being 666 for Deadly Poison). Poison stacks are a nice damage boost. Other than that just another dirt cheap decent power.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Lash
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Fiery Form
  Rotation: Firesnake -> Lash
  Thoughts: Not the best test for Lash as it gains additional damage for every poison stack. I think I'll do another test later on against a target with a ton of poison stacks and see what happens.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Defile
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Fiery Form
  Rotation: Firesnake -> Defile
  Thoughts: Defile was considered ridiculously overpowered when introduced years ago. Still a solid power.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Vicious Cyclone
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Fiery Form
  Rotation: Firesnake -> Vicious Cyclone
  Thoughts: You just keep showing up Might Chains.
  
  
  
  Power: Epidemic
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Fiery Form
  Rotation: Firesnake -> Epidemic
  Thoughts: I was actually surprised how much damage Epidemic does.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Venomous Breath
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Fiery Form
  Rotation: Firesnake -> Venomous Breath
  Thoughts: For all its utility venomous breath does decent damage too. The poison adv + a bleed applicator would likely net more damage.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Devour Essence
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Fiery Form
  Rotation: Fire Snake -> Devour Essence x3
  Thoughts: No surprises here.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Telekinesis ========================

  
  Power: Telekinetic Assault
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> TK Assault
  Thoughts: I'm surprised I don't see TK Assault that often. I guess it was forgotten after the blast buffs a while back.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Telekinetic Lance
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> TK Assault -> TK Lance
  Thoughts: I might try another rotation for this as I wasn't always popping 5 stacks. Always 4, sometimes 5. That's a really sad result, though. TK Lance's bonus hits do not work with DUC.
  
  
  
  Power: Ego Blade Annihilation
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 2 | Mental Acuity
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> Ego Blade Breach x6 -> Ego Blade Annihilation (tap)
  Thoughts: Mental Storm was used sparingly to not skew the results too much. Considering how much -res is being used in this parse and Mental Storm propping up the damage a bit, Ego Blades are on the lower rung for melee damage. The Ego Annihilation dot does not benefit from DUC. Strangely enough the rupture damage does.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Telepathy ========================

  
  Power: Ego Blast
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 2 | Mind Opener
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> Ego Blast
  Thoughts: Edit: Redid this one. Damage is about where I expected it now. Not quite as good as Ice Blast but in the same league.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

  ======================== Wind ========================

  
  Power: Hurricane
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Stormbringer
  Rotation: Hurricane
  Thoughts: Hurricane wound up being a lengthy test as I wanted to see if stacking up debuffs of appropriate types was worth it. Here's Hurricane all by itself, pretty high damage for a mobile wide range aoe.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Hurricane
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Stormbringer
  Rotation: Firesnake -> Hurricane
  Thoughts: Firesnake seems worth it.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Typhoon
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Stormbringer
  Rotation: Firesnake -> Typhoon
  Thoughts: Based on my findings for Hurricane I decided Firesnake was the optimal debuff choice on this. Pretty good for a cone, was difficult supplying the energy. Although it's a little sad that Hurricane comes pretty darn close to this.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Wind Breath
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Stormbringer
  Rotation: Wind Breath
  Thoughts: Not much to say about it, although I always found this good for a wolf character. KB adv on it is handy for rage stacking.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Wind Breath
  Ranks and Advantages: Rank 3
  Passive Used: Stormbringer
  Rotation: Fire Snake -> Wind Breath
  Thoughts: Firesnake didn't add all that much either. Split damage types can be a bit obnoxious when it comes to picking debuffs.
  ​​

  Post edited by kaiserin#0958 on August 2015

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• Unknown

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  This content has been removed.
• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  This is not a thread about game mechanics, please take that elsewhere.

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Yeah, Epidemic Spam is actually quite good and may rival Defile/IBlast for single target dps.. which is a bit of a shame since its such a good AoE to boot. Stronger base dmg for (most) blasts could help w/ this.
  
  Was ur Epid test using R3 or Outreak, btw? I find R3 is better for dps, where Outbreak is better for getting 10x DP faster (which can be useful for, say, the Lash build, though IBlast can apply and refresh DP stacks on-tap, and for Lash you could also add Defile's debuff).
  
  Infernal SN has many diff rotations avail, but I'm not sure any of them actually stick out for single-target (blast -> PS defile, defile debuff to blast spam, epid spam, epid -> blast w/ AVM, defile spam, lash builds, bleed and poison stacking w/ vile lariat, etc).
  
  For a Firestrike build, I'd prob try Avenger spec w/ Fireballl and Pre-emptive Strikes in a FStrike -> Fireball rotation. Seems like the most natural way to make use of Firestrike to me.
  
  Pretty good analysis thus far. Though energy concerns can def be an issue for some builds, its more the exception than the rule for a strong general build setup.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Powers were R3 unless otherwise stated.
  
  My Defile testing was put on hold while I figure out a way to tapspam it without compromising the build's damage bonuses. My last attempt did not go well, although from previous parses with a AoPM build it's not that much higher above Infernal Blast and requires a good amount of work to not deplete your energy, even with Supernatural Power.
  
  With Lash I want to see what happens in a team setting with say 30 stacks of poison going. Curious if it has a cap for damage bonus and how many it takes for it to rival higher damage abilities.
  
  Ah yeah, Fireball would be a good power to try out.

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Yeah, when I tested Defile spam on my Scourge last time, it wasn't notably better than IBlast or Epidemic spam (w/ just having Defile for its opener/debuff). That was w/ higher End/Rec to help accommodate Defile's cost; ultimately it seems SP energy procs and activation delays hit Defile spam pretty hard.
  
  Last time I tested, I did notice a strange behavior w/ Deadly Poison, where if ya refresh it repeatedly simply by tapping IBlast, eventually the poison ticks stop working properly and the dmg from them drops off. This didn't seem to happen if ya apply a new stack (ie. full charge IBlast instead of tap). But its been a while since I checked, and I'm not sure if this behavior holds true for other types of debuffs/DoTs.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• aiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  These things are always interesting, so far the only powers that are just plain to strong for my tastes are ice blast, epidemic and tgm. I disagree buffing blast attacks to do more dps than epidemic is a good way to "fix" that. It is tricky to set a acceptable dps baselines for certain types of attacks, but in general pbAoE should be some of the lowest dps attacks in the game.
  
  I do think you can squeeze a bit more dps out of conflagration, but it would require an extra power (firesnake) and/or a bit more complicated rotation. Since you really do not need to use heatwave that often to keep the debuff up, you can do:
  firesnake>fireball>heatwave>conflagration x2>firesnake>fireball>conflagration x3

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  aiqa wrote: »

  These things are always interesting, so far the only powers that are just plain to strong for my tastes are ice blast, epidemic and tgm. I disagree buffing blast attacks to do more dps than epidemic is a good way to "fix" that. It is tricky to set a acceptable dps baselines for certain types of attacks, but in general pbAoE should be some of the lowest dps attacks in the game.

  Some (not all) of the blasts are too weak, though (at least imo). Its a more general issue, I guess, that just also happens to relate to my point.
  

  I do think you can squeeze a bit more dps out of conflagration, but it would require an extra power (firesnake) and/or a bit more complicated rotation. Since you really do not need to use heatwave that often to keep the debuff up, you can do:
  firesnake>fireball>heatwave>conflagration x2>firesnake>fireball>conflagration x3

  It'd be interesting to see if devoting time to a low dps move like HW for the debuff is worth it overall or not. It does make sense to fully channel it in the opener since its not like ya want to go full bore vs. a boss as a squishier dps anyways; taps should be able to maintain it after that.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• aiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  flowcyto wrote: »

  It'd be interesting to see if devoting time to a low dps move like HW for the debuff is worth it overall or not. It does make sense to fully channel it in the opener since its not like ya want to go full bore vs. a boss as a squishier dps anyways; taps should be able to maintain it after that.

  
  I do think it's worth it since it's a long duration debuff. But tapping would not work since it gets 6 -resistance stacks all with their own duration (so no refreshing all stacks with a tap).
  
  I doubt the added resistance debuff from firesnake will be useful on bossfights, but the changed rotation is still a bit higher dps with or without firesnake.

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  aiqa wrote: »

  I do think you can squeeze a bit more dps out of conflagration, but it would require an extra power (firesnake) and/or a bit more complicated rotation. Since you really do not need to use heatwave that often to keep the debuff up, you can do:
  firesnake>fireball>heatwave>conflagration x2>firesnake>fireball>conflagration x3

  
  That parse had heat wave dropping to 5 just as I was tapping it to keep it at 6. Firesnake wound up being a dps drop as I was hitting the -res cap with Heat Wave and Fireball.
  
  Firesnake might be worth swapping in just for an aoe debuff or better team debuffs, but for single target I think heat Wave and Fireball are a bit better.
  
  
  I generally like to use Defile as a baseline ranged attack. Its damage isn't stepping on the toes of melee too much and it takes quite a bit of build work to get at a spammable pace, even with a quirky energy unlock. All the blasts posted here require very little building, and have high return.

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• pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  How does Kinetic Manipulation compare to Quarry on the 2GM build?

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I don't think I can give a accurate read with Quarry with this particular setup, as Quarry's strength lies within its int bonus and getting the most out of cooldown rotations. I'm not using active offenses here so it would not give a good representation.

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Power: Ego Blast (Mind Opener)
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> Ego Blast
  Thoughts: Edit: Redid this one. Damage is about where I expected it now. Not quite as good as Ice Blast but in the same league.
  
  
  
  
  
  Power: Telekinetic Assault
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> TK Assault
  Thoughts: I'm surprised I don't see TK Assault that often. I guess it was forgotten after the blast buffs a while back.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Telekinetic Lance
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> TK Assault -> TK Lance
  Thoughts: I might try another rotation for this as I wasn't always popping 5 stacks. Always 4, sometimes 5. That's a really sad result, though.
  

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• wingedkagouti Posts: 565 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  kaizerin wrote: »

  Powers were R3 unless otherwise stated.

  I really want to see how Epidemic works out with R2+Outbreak.

  kaizerin wrote: »

  Power: Epidemic
  Passive Used: Fiery Form
  Rotation: Firesnake -> Epidemic
  Thoughts: I was actually surprised how much damage Epidemic does.

  I must admit that your surprise surprises me, I can't remember a time where Epidemic wasn't amazingly powerful (at least outside PTS). Supernatural Energy just makes it stupidly good since you almost always get more energy than you need for a maintain and thus can keep it running forever.

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• selphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  kaizerin wrote: »

  Thoughts: I'm surprised I don't see TK Assault that often. I guess it was forgotten after the blast buffs a while back.

  
  My secret's out! :eek:
  
  But the Blasts are going to look weak because they can't AO rotate to proc Avenger Mastery often. For the sake of fairness, there's nothing that can be done about that though.

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• theravenforce Posts: 7,148 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  kaizerin wrote: »

  Power: Telekinetic Assault
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> TK Assault
  Thoughts: I'm surprised I don't see TK Assault that often. I guess it was forgotten after the blast buffs a while back.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Telekinetic Lance
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> TK Assault -> TK Lance
  Thoughts: I might try another rotation for this as I wasn't always popping 5 stacks. Always 4, sometimes 5. That's a really sad result, though.
  

  
  I personally have always liked using TK Assault and TK Lance.
  
  However due to curiosity I've only recently been using both with Mental Storm. TK Assault is my favourite, TK Lance is only sometimes good, most of the time (at least for me) without my AO it doesn't crit that often.
  
  Have you tried using Incisive Wit -> Mental Storm -> TK Assault ? Or that same set up but with TK Lance (if Incisive Wit holds)
  
  I've used Incisive Wit as a mini AO in the past and found it relatively rewarding. The only downside is the time it can take to proc.
  
  Also, have you ever compared Crushing Wave and Wind Breath? I personally think (and no doubt do others) that Crushing Wave needs to be extended to 5 seconds to be put on par with other cone powers, or re made similar to them in terms of ticks and damage.

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Yeah Avenger Mastery + AOs makes blasts more competitive; shame that's one of the few ways to go about it w/o using crazy flat dmg procs like Hard Frost or Mind Opener.
  
  I assume w/ the Mind Opener test that you were referring to TP Reverb and its weirdness instead of Ego Reverb?
  
  Also, the crit rng seems high for the TKA-focused test, but a bit low for the test that used TKL. I'd expect more from the latter- namely an higher crit rate w/ Guardicator and Ego PSS.The avg resist for TKL was also a bit worse than for TKA for some reason. Just seems off to me..

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• jimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Have been following this thread from the sidelines with interest.
  

  flowcyto wrote: »

  Also, the crit rng seems high for the TKA-focused test, but a bit low for the test that used TKL. I'd expect more from the latter- namely an higher crit rate w/ Guardicator and Ego PSS.The avg resist for TKL was also a bit worse than for TKA for some reason. Just seems off to me..

  
  Not surprising, because from the tooltip, Chance to critically hit with this power is increase for each stack of Ego Leech you have. (And it's 3% crit/stack). 46%+15% = 61%, which is a lot closer to 66%... Sigh that Upper Hand wouldn't work here ... or does it? (cue dramatic music)
  
  That at least explains the "relative" weakness of TKL here.

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  jimhsua wrote: »

  Not surprising, because from the tooltip, Chance to critically hit with this power is increase for each stack of Ego Leech you have. (And it's 3% crit/stack). 46%+15% = 61%, which is a lot closer to 66%... Sigh that Upper Hand wouldn't work here ... or does it? (cue dramatic music)
  
  That at least explains the "relative" weakness of TKL here.

  Well yeah, but w/ TKA ur also benefiting from the crit increase even when consuming w/ TKL, since ur EL stacks still transit between 0-5 at any given time (and the higher stacks can coincide w/ the end ticks of the maintain, which are the strongest). It still a bit of a gap even considering that.
  
  Just saying- resistance diff aside, one test seems to have had good crit rng, where the other fell on the opposite end of the scale there. I dun think the comparison is bunk or anything.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• jimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  flowcyto wrote: »

  Well yeah, but w/ TKA ur also benefiting from the crit increase even when consuming w/ TKL, since ur EL stacks still transit between 0-5 at any given time (and the higher stacks can coincide w/ the end ticks of the maintain, which are the strongest). It still a bit of a gap even considering that.
  
  Just saying- resistance diff aside, one test seems to have had good crit rng, where the other fell on the opposite end of the scale there. I dun think the comparison is bunk or anything.

  
  Unless ... the critical chance isn't scaling properly throughout the maintain. Now wouldn't that be a bug ... :rolleyes:
  
  Also using a quick binomial calculator, I calculate the chance of getting N ego leech stacks over 6 seconds (from both TKA (20%, full maintain) and Ego Infusion (1 stack/2 seconds)) to be:
  3 13%
  4 30%
  5 57%
  
  Might be that one maintain of TKA is just a bit short.

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  jimhsua wrote:

  Unless ... the critical chance isn't scaling properly throughout the maintain. Now wouldn't that be a bug ...

  Urgh, not a bug that would be easy to test, for sure.
  
  From my experience, its quite random w/ the stacks from TKA, but it also depends if ur throwing other powers in there. Just one TKA maintain w/ EL often won't be enough for 5 stacks by the end of it, but just adding another (no-cd) power into the rotation normally means ya can potentially squeeze in another stack regardless of the rng.
  
  Perhaps TKL is only a good idea if ya need just one full TKA maintain between uses to get 5x EL consistently, but due to EL stacks and TKA's ramp up, its a loss or a dps wash otherwise vs. just committing to TKA at 5 stacks (as these tests seem to show).

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

  0
• jimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  flowcyto wrote: »

  Urgh, not a bug that would be easy to test, for sure.

  
  TL;DR: TKA seems to work properly, but the ego leech bonus appears to be double that of the tooltip (6% vs 3%).
  
  Tested with the help of some clever automation. No puny unreliable humans.
  
  Character base crit rate: 27.4%
  
  Rotation 1:
  Build ego leech to 5, then loop:
  - TKA, 3 seconds
  - Pause, 500 ms
  Stack count was manually verified to be 5 for the whole time.
  
  TKA: 524 hits (283 crit)
  Crit rate: 54%
  95% CI: 49.6-58.3%
  
  Rotation 2:
  Loop:
  - TK burst, tap (for one stack of EL)
  - Ego Blade Annihilation, 1.5 seconds (full charge, starts DOT)
  - Pause, 500 ms
  - TKA, 5 seconds
  - Pause, 17s (to drop all stacks)
  Stack count was verified to be 0 at the start of TKA. "Average" stack count was around 1-2 (no hard numbers, sorry).
  
  TKA: 657 hits (217 crit)
  Crit rate: 33%
  95% CI: 29.4-36.8%
  
  ... And that's all the time I have for testing right now.

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I suspected that the EL bonus for TKA was instead more around 5% (or more) back when I was testing the activation delay (source).
  
  Good to get better support for the theory that TKA was getting a higher bonus than expected. Math rules :x

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  flowcyto wrote: »

  Yeah Avenger Mastery + AOs makes blasts more competitive; shame that's one of the few ways to go about it w/o using crazy flat dmg procs like Hard Frost or Mind Opener.
  
  I assume w/ the Mind Opener test that you were referring to TP Reverb and its weirdness instead of Ego Reverb?

  
  I dunno, so far every blast I've posted here I think is overperforming.
  
  Yep, telepathic, mistype.
  
  Huh, I didn't notice the resistance drop in TKL. Oh, that would be why. Because the bonus hit doesn't work with depleted uranium core.
  

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  kaizerin wrote: »

  I dunno, so far every blast I've posted here I think is overperforming.
  
  Yep, telepathic, mistype.
  -snip-
  Huh, I didn't notice the resistance drop in TKL. Oh, that would be why. Because the bonus hit doesn't work with depleted uranium core.

  Hard Frost and Mind Opener def are crazy- I wouldn't dispute that (nor would want their blasts buffed if those special advs stayed as is). Its def not an across-the-board thing to me. I mean, if anything, the tests show that DoT and -resistance stacking can (though not always) account for a good deal, and can help make certain lower base dps powers quite better off.
  
  Good catch on the DUC factor. TKL's EL-derived dmg proc is sometimes very delayed, so that tells me its not coded straightforward and could have snags like not getting proper resistances going for it.
  
  Too many bugged details w/ the powers in this game.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  theravenforce wrote: »

  Have you tried using Incisive Wit -> Mental Storm -> TK Assault ? Or that same set up but with TK Lance (if Incisive Wit holds)
  
  I've used Incisive Wit as a mini AO in the past and found it relatively rewarding. The only downside is the time it can take to proc.
  
  Also, have you ever compared Crushing Wave and Wind Breath? I personally think (and no doubt do others) that Crushing Wave needs to be extended to 5 seconds to be put on par with other cone powers, or re made similar to them in terms of ticks and damage.

  
  While IC is a very good 2 pt advantage, it's on an energy builder which will in the long run drop your output significantly waiting for it to proc. If you happen to get it to proc during random eb uses, it's great, but not something I'm going to use for these tests.
  
  I haven't looked at the breaths yet, I suspect venomous breath will be the one to beat...

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• monsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  kaizerin wrote: »

  Power: Ego Blast (Mind Opener)
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> Ego Blast
  Thoughts: This came out lower than I thought it would, but not surprising due to how wonky Ego Reverberation is. Still very potent.
  
  
  Power: Telekinetic Assault
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Mental Storm -> TK Assault
  Thoughts: I'm surprised I don't see TK Assault that often. I guess it was forgotten after the blast buffs a while back.
  

  I tested the above builds with optimized gear. DEX/CON/INT, Vind/Guardian with DUC, Ego Surge R2 w/NM and Lock N Load R3. Around 34.6% base crit (before specs).
  
  Ego Blast DPS was 6,531 (73% crit) vs TKA with 5,239 (88% crit).
  
  I started the Ego Blast parse with a full charge so I would get Disorient immediately and I noted it dropped off once which necessitated another full charge but it didn't seem to affect DPS too much.
  
  TKA was always full maintains so AO's and Mental Storm both had to wait for TKA to finish. In my observations, this was suboptimal since AO and MS was often activated a few seconds after cd unlike the Ego Blast build. (But would you really want to break a maintain??)
  
  Really not sure why your test showed Ego Blast so much lower. Another odd thing I noticed in your test was MS was much lower in the Ego Blast parse whereas in mine it was 50% higher.
  
  Also for fun I tested Ice Blast and Firesnake R2 w/TB on Quarry at 100 ft with Ice Sheath R2 w/SC instead of LNL. Got 5,850 DPS. Of note, using Ego Surge is a pretty high DPS increase to Mental Storm so that helped Ego Blast pull ahead of Ice (but Ice can fight at 100 ft).
  
  Interesting how Rimefire and Mental Storm takes Ice Blast to almost 7K DPS.

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Oh, I stated in my initial post that I was not going to use mental storm in its fullest because it can boost the damage of any build and really isn't fair to consider as part of an attack because of that. I only used it to keep the -res stacks up.
  
  Post up the details of your parses, let's see how often Mind Opener was triggering on Ego Blast.
  
  Edit: Redid the parse and got a different result. It feels like the previous parse was omitting a passive (I know that wasn't the case but it's the only explanation I have as the delays and crits aren't off). Still not as potent as Ice Blast, but it's in the same league.
  
  

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Power: Ricochet Throw
  Passive Used: Kinetic Manipulation
  Rotation: Ricochet Throw
  Thoughts: Not a good representation of this power as its not utilizing its effect. Not bad though.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Snap Shot
  Passive Used: Kinetic Manipulation
  Rotation: Snap Shot
  Thoughts: Another not very good representation of the power due to not being able to get bonus damage from low health targets.
  Edit: Selphea made a good point that Snap Shots delay was a bit high. I tinkered with setups and couldn't get it below .81, which is really high for a .5 activation power. Straight Shot was slowing it down tremendously so I removed Straight shot. Oh look, DPS is the same without Straight Shot's debuffs. Link for the old Straight Shot -> Snap Shot parse.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Focused Shot
  Passive Used: Kinetic Manipulation
  Rotation: Straight Shot -> Focused Shot x2
  Thoughts: I expected this to be a touch higher. It's kind of annoying that Straight Shot's duration is so short.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Storm of Arrows
  Passive Used: Kinetic Manipulation
  Rotation: Storm of Arrows -> Snap Shot x2
  Thoughts: One of the few 100ft range aoe attacks. My favorite archery power, I tend to use the rooting advantage. Looks like the bonus damage does not scale with Depleted Uranium Cores.
  Edit: Redid the parse using Snap Shot in place of Straight shot. Link to old parse.
  
  
  
  
  Omitted Test: Explosive Arrow (Where's the Kaboom?)
  Sadly there are no passives that would neatly let me test a piercing/fire damage setup. I tried out a Quarry setup using Striaght Shot, Fire Snake, and Explosive Arrow and got around 2,700 dps. WTK has some potential with its fire typing. Another idea is throwing in Gas Arrow.
  
  Archery seems to come up short compared to the other stuff posted here, but it is a mobile long ranged set and one of the few sets spared of the low tier power buff pass a while back.

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• pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  kaizerin wrote: »

  Omitted Test: Explosive Arrow (Where's the Kaboom?)
  Sadly there are no passives that would neatly let me test a piercing/fire damage setup.

  Targeting Computer or Night Warrior should work.

  My guide to Teleios Ascendant
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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Trying to get the same damage bonuses. Targeting computer adds lower damage and adds crit and Night warrior has lower bonuses and armor pen.

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• selphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I meant the other blasts like Shadow, Eldritch, Straight Shot etc.
  
  Anyway Snap Shot gets killed by input delay. You can do something with Storm of Arrows and Trapped, but I doubt it will help all that much.

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Mind Opener being closer to Hard Frost w/ further scrutiny makes sense since they are somewhat close in base dps (the blast and the adv dmg).
  
  The sad thing is that even though Snap Shot's the highest non-cd ST attack in Archery, it being instant means its actually not much better than a charged Sonic Arrow w/ the DD adv- esp if ya add in AoE-boosting specs. Whenever I tested diff rotations on the Marksman I never really got significantly better results using Snap Shot (not counting the execute range dmg), though I did tend to run into more energy issues then too. RT taps, though good, also get hit hard by that delay (though RT's base dmg is still high enough that its not as bad).
  
  Oh, and if ur going to test TC as a passive, Kaiz, I'd be interested to see if ya can corroborate LockOn to not be giving the correct crit-related bonuses. I'd love the passive to not be critically bugged atm, but I think it still is.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I suspect the easiest way to get uniform testing of powers would be to use a defensive passive or AoPM; you won't get the gory numbers, but it means you don't have to hunt around for an appropriate passive. On the other hand, it's a legitimate flaw of powers like Explosive Arrow that they have no really appropriate offensive passives.

  My guide to Teleios Ascendant
  Epic Stronghold
  Block timing explained

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Yeah I want the gory numbers, if I can't test a power properly it will be just that, showing off that it lacks circumstances to support it.

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  So I want to draw some attention to power activation times. If you look at the delay on these parses you'll notice that they're generally much higher than the advertised power activation time. This partly has to do with power rotations, but even the single rotation ones have noticeable delays. This topic has been brought up before, but what I want to point out is the difference between maintains and taps.
  
  Let's look at Two Gun Mojo and Lightning Arc. They have .5 activation times and their delay readout on the parses is .57 and .54, very close to their advertised time. Now let's look at Snap Shot which has a .5 activation time, but the parse shows it at .65. Pretty big disparity. The power use for these parses was mostly automated, so human error shouldn't be the cause of it.
  
  While such small differences seems trivial, in the long run it will impact the power's performance quite a bit. Another interesting tidbit is maintains stop dealing damage before the maintain bar fully animates, making it advantageous to halt the maintain early and retrigger it.
  
  
  The yellow line shows just about where maintains stop dealing damage.
  
  Furthermore, the maintain counts as a full maintain as far as power requirements are concerned at that point too. ie Epidemic will double its poison stacks at that point.
  
  This gives maintains a significant edge over taps. I haven't gotten to the melee powers yet, but Devour essense for instance was one of the higest dps melee abilities during my inital melee tests a while back.

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• pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I believe the reverse of this also applies to charges -- you get 'full charge' effects at somewhere around 90%.

  My guide to Teleios Ascendant
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  Block timing explained

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  LArc has a 0.67 sec listed activation, though- not 0.5 ala TGM. Afaik, the 'avg delay' in the parser isn't akin to activation time technically unless all ur using is an instant power for ur rotation (or for maintains/charges, if ur not charging or maintaining at all but just tapping/activating the power repeatedly).
  
  The maintain end tick issue may be due to interface lag, the extra tick they gain in the 1st second (ex. TGM and LArc get 9 ticks total instead of the listed/implied 8) throwing off the rest of the cast bar, or the simple fact that the cast bars aren't meant to be 100% accurate. Like power anims, I suspect its cause they are just a visual cue. Its evident if you try to partially charge a power, but the charge line on the bar stammers and doesn't always smoothly stop at its indicated fill when released. Or the case of getting a stack of FotTiger or Conc for half-charging when the final bar graphic didn't quite fill up halfway, etc.
  
  It is interesting that you got a slightly shorter avg delay w/ LArc vs. TGM, though, and even w/ adding in another power for LArc's rotation. Hmm..
  Snap Shot's avg delay was in line w/ my testing for power activation delays, though, w/ a 0.5 sec listed activation time having a ~0.15-0.16 sec avg delay.
  
  You are correct, though- it does seem that the last tick of a maintain doesn't align w/ the end of the cast bar.
  
  *shrug* Nearly everything related to CO's listed times for things is off. Hard to make sense of it all.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Lightning Arcs listed activation time is .67, but its damage tics are every .5. That does seem odd.

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• aiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  I don't understand the average delay numbers. Looking at the various powers (thunderstrike is a good example) it seems to tell you the average delay between hits from one attack, and the average delay between hits from any attack (when looking at the "all" row). But when looking at the number of hits and the duration of the tests that does not work.
  
  When only looking at LA it looks good.
  The test lasted 9:51 minutes = 591 seconds
  In total there were 1106 hits, so on average 591/1106=0,534 seconds per hit, which is pretty close to the 0.54 in the log.
  
  So then looking at TGM.
  The test lasted 9:54 minutes = 594 seconds
  In total there were 1182 hits, so on average 594/1182=0,5025 seconds per hit, which is not exactly the 0.57 in the log.
  
  Or the total average delay on the epidemic test
  The test lasted 11:50 minutes = 710 seconds
  In total there were 3231 hits, so on average 710/3231=0,2197 seconds per hit, that is pretty far off from the 0.27 in the logs.
  

  kaizerin wrote: »

  Lightning Arcs listed activation time is .67, but its damage tics are every .5. That does seem odd.

  
  Why is that odd? It just tells you it takes 0.67 seconds for the maintain to start, but that is not tied to anything that happens during the maintain. Those activation times are also why it is completely normal for a 4 seconds maintain to do 9 hits, the total time it takes to complete one maintain is 4+0.5 or 4+0.67 or x+y seconds. Sword cyclone is the only maintain I know about that does not do its first hit right after the activation time, which causes it to not do any damage when tapped.

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  How very strange. I'll double check the delay times in the future.
  
  
  
  I think it's odd to have a activation time that differs from its maintain damage time. Seems inconsistent.

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• pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  kaizerin wrote: »

  I think it's odd to have a activation time that differs from its maintain damage time. Seems inconsistent.

  A lot of powers do. The particularly weird one is celestial conduit, with a 0.5s activation time and a 1s time between tics (which means tap spam does significantly more damage/healing than maintaining).

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Yeah...it just seems like it would cause problems like that. I am thinking activation times should match maintain times.
  
  Checked a few of the delay times and I haven't really found a pattern to which ones are inconsistent. Deadly Poison was off on the Lash/Epidemic one but fine on the Infernal Blast one.

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• aiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  It think we can safely ignore delay times. That is an interesting property when trying to figure out why some powers do lower dps than you'd think when reading the descriptions, but for dps testing with a parser it's not important.
  
  But it still odd....

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Yea, the avg delay measure in the parser is somewhat limited in its use when comparing full build parses. Imo, its one of those measures that's better when ya really simplify things (but then ur not likely reflecting a full/effective build's result).
  
  I'd say as long as there's no lag/snr's happening during ur tests, or long downtime between power use, it can mostly be ignored for a full build parse- like one of the things to be broken out only if something really seems off w/ dps build comparisons.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Power: Shuriken Throw
  Passive Used: Kinetic Manipulation
  Rotation: Shuriken Throw
  Thoughts: For some reason I thought this one would be higher. I have memories of using this in PvP way back when and it being decent. Oh well.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Shadow Blast
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Shadow Blast
  Thoughts: I am seeing that many damage types lack desirable debuffs. The debuff on Ebon Ruin is a bit too low to be worth using, at least solo.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Rebuke
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation:Rebuke
  Thoughts: This has a really cool animation. Damage isn't as low as I thought it would be, although this power is greatly overshadowed by Celestial Conduit. I guess the stun adv could be useful.
  
  Sadly these sorts of powers are generally ignored as we aren't really pressed for space on powers and it's more valuable to have dedicated strong abilities rather then ones that split themselves up.
  

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Power: Celestia Conduit
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Celestia Conduit (Maintained)
  Thoughts: That's not bad for a power that doubles as a heal. Delay comes out to .88 if you divide the hits and time, which is interesting for a maintain that applies every 1 second. I guess being able to cancel the maintain out early and the .5 activation brings it down.
  
  
  
  
  Power: Celestia Conduit
  Passive Used: Ego Form
  Rotation: Celestia Conduit (Tapped)
  Thoughts: Well the tap damage isn't that much more impressive (and part of it is due to a slightly higher crit for this parse), and it costs a heck of a lot more to use tapping it. Still though, I don't think maintains should have different activation times.
  

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• aiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  The thing with celestial conduit, is that it does 1 hit after the activation time, and 1 hit at the start of the maintain. So when tap spamming you'll only do that one hit per 0.5+lag, if you make sure you actually start the maintain part of the power for a fraction of a second you get a second hit. With a bit of practice you can get celestial conduit to do 2 hits per second like that, and also keep you in the maintain animation (which looks much better).
  
  This is working as intended to make up for the long delay the animation can case at first cast, you'll notice that first hit takes much long than 0.5 to do damage (when not doing tap spam).

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• kaiserin

  kaiserin#0958

  Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  Canceled out of the maintain about 4/5ths of a second in.
  
  
  
  Well then. I gotta say I don't think that's intended.
  Even the minhit is trying to tell us something.

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• aiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User

  January 2015 edited January 2015

  That does look very good in theory, but with the insane energy cost almost impossible to make work. And even if you can make energy work it is hard to use in a fight, the second hit does not work completely reliable when there is a bit of lag, and a self root always makes things tricky.
  
  Another odd thing about conduit.
  With illumination active the first hit can "chain" to your primary target when healing (this is also not very reliable, and only works on healing), so you can sometimes see conduit heal your primary target 3 times at the start of the maintain. But even with these probably bugged mechanics, iniquity is still a far better heal....
  
  Celestial in general just needs to be reworked a bit, something like make conduit hit every 0.5 seconds to targets affected by illumination (and remove that extra hit after activation time), and give rebuke an AoE component against targets affected by illumination.

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