I'm ok with these changes, except for the highlighted orange.
There are many other ways you could of addressed the long time plasma beam power scaling, but instead, you decided to go the lazy way and just get rid of the mechanic that made it over powering, rather than balancing it...
I agree. I don't use vehicles myself (I have a largely default Talon that I use as a TP on one of my characters), but I have to say 'fixing' a power by stripping out unique qualities is quite dissatisfactory.
I feel the same way about the changes to the Teddy debuff.
Lets all be honest here, everyone. Cryptic North isn't any different than Cryptic. They're underhanded, lazy, and lacks just as much communication and honesty as the former team. And considering their former team didn't even exist, that's a pretty accurate summation.
Mmmmhmmm, way to gut vehicles when vehicle users were probably giving you the most money.
I'll only ask this, but I only want you to answer it on THE day I ask you to.
Do you feel like competent developers yet?
Do you guys feel like heroes yet?
Don't bother answering those questions. Just don't. Not until I ask them again on the day I expect will come for stupid things like this. Glad I'm not giving you guys any money anymore.
Uh, what? I don't think anyone has any idea what you're on about.
I seem to recall that in the PTS thread, when the Mechanon issue came up, there were one or more posters repeatedly insisting that the best way to deal with the PB issue was to remove Plasma Shear.
Okay, it's gone now. Are we pleased?
And of course there was the repeated request that the game be more character-centric, and the vehicles should not feel like an endgame - which was read as "nerf the rides!"
The old saying is true - be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
Maybe next time we're offering the new devs strongly-worded advice from the lofty perch of our extensive experience, we might want to be more careful about the exact phrasing of our wishes...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I'm more of the mind that CN inherited this mess and have been trying to deal with it as best they can. The big problem with vehicles is that they were designed from the start to be too powerful. At a level that really feels like there should be vehicle only content. And really, if there was vehicle only content, I think we'd all have been better for it.
But much of the playerbase at the time was against having vehicle only content, and so we are now stuck with the problem of having vehicles combat mixed with hero combat and that becomes a nightmare to balance. It's hard enough creating open world content meant for varying hero levels. Vehicles as they were/are just adds extra trouble on top of that.
I'm not sure what they can really do to make things better without making people upset.
I seem to recall that in the PTS thread, when the Mechanon issue came up, there were one or more posters repeatedly insisting that the best way to deal with the PB issue was to remove Plasma Shear.
Okay, it's gone now. Are we pleased?
Wrong.
We asked that they cap the number of Plasma Shear stacks. You're paying attention just as much as the devs are.
And the difference between nerfing powers and vehicles weapons and mods is paying for them.
I seem to recall that in the PTS thread, when the Mechanon issue came up, there were one or more posters repeatedly insisting that the best way to deal with the PB issue was to remove Plasma Shear.
Okay, it's gone now. Are we pleased?
That sheer is gone....yup.
That Plasma Beam got hit hard in the energy department...not really.
The original request was a simple 1 step thing. More than one step occurred.
And of course there was the repeated request that the game be more character-centric,
Yup.
and the vehicles should not feel like an endgame - which was read as "nerf the rides!"
I do not recall this specifically but...sure.
The old saying is true - be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
Maybe next time we're offering the new devs strongly-worded advice from the lofty perch of our extensive experience, we might want to be more careful about the exact phrasing of our wishes...
I only wish this had been caught in the PTS Threads of Vehicles 2.0 and then most of these complaints about it taking this long to correct would not be here. The crutch would have never been put in place. There would have been no nerf because there would have been no burst in the 1st place.
I think things were worded quite well for the most part on both sides of this process(this time around) except that Vehicles 2.0 was a prime example of mostly 2 people who used mountains of mostly irrelevant posts to bury the actual testing and data...and the devs likely never saw the actual information because of this.
I'm more of the mind that CN inherited this mess and have been trying to deal with it as best they can. The big problem with vehicles is that they were designed from the start to be too powerful. At a level that really feels like there should be vehicle only content. And really, if there was vehicle only content, I think we'd all have been better for it.
But much of the playerbase at the time was against having vehicle only content, and so we are now stuck with the problem of having vehicles combat mixed with hero combat and that becomes a nightmare to balance. It's hard enough creating open world content meant for varying hero levels. Vehicles as they were/are just adds extra trouble on top of that.
I'm not sure what they can really do to make things better without making people upset.
While I do agree that this ball of rubbish was the mistranslated original requests of the forum using playerbase at that time by Cryptic and pretty much dropped into the laps of CN...I disagree that it's really that hard to balance and create an effective world for vehicles and heroes to co-exist.
You just balance the vehicles so they fit somewhere between ATs and FF and they just become another hero with flight. Without wasting too much dev time on them you permit them to go into more places than before because of this. You maybe even toss in crits with a very very low severity due to their current power levels and block(if that's mechanically possible) at the cost of reduced def. The Vehicle is a become which has multiple, purely optional, uses and should, IMO, be treated as such. Like...
-Cosmetic Toy: CN hasn't been doing a ton of repaints on these things really..time to slap them in the tailor. Heck, I don't even care if you sell permanent [Vehicle Bodyshop Access] to players on an account unlock basis. Just let them have it please. You could even sell "skins" to them for a buck or three later on down the road. IMO a small impulse shopping item that makes someone who uses vehicles think,"Hmm, a few keys or that skulls and flames pattern for my Widow?" could potentially work out well.
-Theme: Some people play heroes who cannot fly or would use a vehicle. It's that simple.
-Flight: Some people originally requested these things be a TP....and use them as such with speed boosts.
-A Become or way to gain further customization for Silver AT Players: Well, these things cost less than FF slots and now that PB is not "as desirable" it means other weapons which were viable all along are likely going to be showing up on the scene.
-Just Because/The Collector: Some people just want them because they want them. There's nothing wrong with that since it's either their dime, their time, or a combination of both.
We asked that they cap the number of Plasma Shear stacks. You're paying attention just as much as the devs are.
I asked that they cap the number of Plasma Sheer Stacks...to zero. Don't be so mean to the other posters.
...and on a purely selfserving note. Could we please get the Hover Disk upgraded to the level of the Until Hover Disk? I'm kinda tired of flying my R3 Hover Disk over to the Until Hover Disk in some Rampages and trading out because my disk that I put points from my character into is simply inferior(note I didn't say useless ).
"Hmm, a few keys or that skulls and flames pattern for my Widow?"
I would pay MONEY for this!! (Well, not for the Widow, I don't have one - but give me custom animal stripes for the Lemurian Tank I gave to Honey Badger, or a feathered pattern for the Hawkwing that the Duck Knight flies, and there may well be cash involved.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Lets all be honest here, everyone. Cryptic North isn't any different than Cryptic. They're underhanded, lazy, and lacks just as much communication and honesty as the former team. And considering their former team didn't even exist, that's a pretty accurate summation.
I'm more of the mind that CN inherited this mess and have been trying to deal with it as best they can. The big problem with vehicles is that they were designed from the start to be too powerful. At a level that really feels like there should be vehicle only content. And really, if there was vehicle only content, I think we'd all have been better for it.
But much of the playerbase at the time was against having vehicle only content, and so we are now stuck with the problem of having vehicles combat mixed with hero combat and that becomes a nightmare to balance. It's hard enough creating open world content meant for varying hero levels. Vehicles as they were/are just adds extra trouble on top of that.
I'm not sure what they can really do to make things better without making people upset.
for the first two, why are you assuming that Cryptic North gets to make the decisions on what is done?
This Nerf sucks and you are a Horrible Person for applying it without caring about the Feebacks
Balance? What Balance? You just made Plasma Beam outright Useless, and you Removed it's Mechanic-Gimmick
Unlesh they Fix-Rebalance Plasma Beam, it's gonna get into Trash and everyone who spend Questionite-Zen to Buy RANK 3 will Rage
THIS IS NOT the way to Earn your Costumers' Trust, with Bait & Switch Nerfs
Neither Ignoring the said Costumers when they give FEEDBACKS on the PTS Forums about said Nerf
I'm ok with these changes, except for the highlighted orange.
There are many other ways you could of addressed the long time plasma beam power scaling, but instead, you decided to go the lazy way and just get rid of the mechanic that made it over powering, rather than balancing it.
-You could of made it so the plasma beam sheer affect was a stacking effect for the player only, as a buff
-Made it so it capped at 10 stacks, and making all plasma beams on the target doing a 1.5x more damage only
-Give it a flat damage increase as if it had stacks already, and give it a short CD to discourage spamming
-Increase it's damage exponentially, and give it a moderate CD
There are many other things you could of done, but rather you decided to bandage the issue rather than looking at the other options. The result is a very disgruntled community that is again splitting sides, and thus making the forums even more venomous.
You're still a new dev team when considering all things. I hope you at least look at the feedback and results of your predecessors, so that you may learn from them and plan how you wish too continue with the direction of the game.
You could do what Caliga suggested, but nope let's Butched this power and never look back
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Locking thread, honestly. Discussion is great, but this thread has kinda gone dark.
I'm sorry if anyone's build was impacted, but we really do take it seriously when abilities are overpowered or possibly causing issues. We take action for the future health of the game, because the alternative is that any future content we release gets kneecapped by these problems. It sucks, and I wish we'd gotten it right the first time, but we can't stand by idly.
Comments
I agree. I don't use vehicles myself (I have a largely default Talon that I use as a TP on one of my characters), but I have to say 'fixing' a power by stripping out unique qualities is quite dissatisfactory.
I feel the same way about the changes to the Teddy debuff.
-Ogre
Uh, what? I don't think anyone has any idea what you're on about.
Okay, it's gone now. Are we pleased?
And of course there was the repeated request that the game be more character-centric, and the vehicles should not feel like an endgame - which was read as "nerf the rides!"
The old saying is true - be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
Maybe next time we're offering the new devs strongly-worded advice from the lofty perch of our extensive experience, we might want to be more careful about the exact phrasing of our wishes...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I'm more of the mind that CN inherited this mess and have been trying to deal with it as best they can. The big problem with vehicles is that they were designed from the start to be too powerful. At a level that really feels like there should be vehicle only content. And really, if there was vehicle only content, I think we'd all have been better for it.
But much of the playerbase at the time was against having vehicle only content, and so we are now stuck with the problem of having vehicles combat mixed with hero combat and that becomes a nightmare to balance. It's hard enough creating open world content meant for varying hero levels. Vehicles as they were/are just adds extra trouble on top of that.
I'm not sure what they can really do to make things better without making people upset.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Wrong.
We asked that they cap the number of Plasma Shear stacks. You're paying attention just as much as the devs are.
And the difference between nerfing powers and vehicles weapons and mods is paying for them.
That Plasma Beam got hit hard in the energy department...not really.
The original request was a simple 1 step thing. More than one step occurred.
Yup. I do not recall this specifically but...sure.
I only wish this had been caught in the PTS Threads of Vehicles 2.0 and then most of these complaints about it taking this long to correct would not be here. The crutch would have never been put in place. There would have been no nerf because there would have been no burst in the 1st place.
I think things were worded quite well for the most part on both sides of this process(this time around) except that Vehicles 2.0 was a prime example of mostly 2 people who used mountains of mostly irrelevant posts to bury the actual testing and data...and the devs likely never saw the actual information because of this.
While I do agree that this ball of rubbish was the mistranslated original requests of the forum using playerbase at that time by Cryptic and pretty much dropped into the laps of CN...I disagree that it's really that hard to balance and create an effective world for vehicles and heroes to co-exist.
You just balance the vehicles so they fit somewhere between ATs and FF and they just become another hero with flight. Without wasting too much dev time on them you permit them to go into more places than before because of this. You maybe even toss in crits with a very very low severity due to their current power levels and block(if that's mechanically possible) at the cost of reduced def. The Vehicle is a become which has multiple, purely optional, uses and should, IMO, be treated as such. Like...
-Cosmetic Toy: CN hasn't been doing a ton of repaints on these things really..time to slap them in the tailor. Heck, I don't even care if you sell permanent [Vehicle Bodyshop Access] to players on an account unlock basis. Just let them have it please. You could even sell "skins" to them for a buck or three later on down the road. IMO a small impulse shopping item that makes someone who uses vehicles think,"Hmm, a few keys or that skulls and flames pattern for my Widow?" could potentially work out well.
-Theme: Some people play heroes who cannot fly or would use a vehicle. It's that simple.
-Flight: Some people originally requested these things be a TP....and use them as such with speed boosts.
-A Become or way to gain further customization for Silver AT Players: Well, these things cost less than FF slots and now that PB is not "as desirable" it means other weapons which were viable all along are likely going to be showing up on the scene.
-Just Because/The Collector: Some people just want them because they want them. There's nothing wrong with that since it's either their dime, their time, or a combination of both.
I asked that they cap the number of Plasma Sheer Stacks...to zero. Don't be so mean to the other posters.
...and on a purely selfserving note. Could we please get the Hover Disk upgraded to the level of the Until Hover Disk? I'm kinda tired of flying my R3 Hover Disk over to the Until Hover Disk in some Rampages and trading out because my disk that I put points from my character into is simply inferior(note I didn't say useless
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Kaiserin
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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for the first two, why are you assuming that Cryptic North gets to make the decisions on what is done?
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Kaiserin
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Nah, it can keep the in combat penalties. I'll just take that speed boost please.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
This Nerf sucks and you are a Horrible Person for applying it without caring about the Feebacks
Balance? What Balance? You just made Plasma Beam outright Useless, and you Removed it's Mechanic-Gimmick
Unlesh they Fix-Rebalance Plasma Beam, it's gonna get into Trash and everyone who spend Questionite-Zen to Buy RANK 3 will Rage
THIS IS NOT the way to Earn your Costumers' Trust, with Bait & Switch Nerfs
Neither Ignoring the said Costumers when they give FEEDBACKS on the PTS Forums about said Nerf
You could do what Caliga suggested, but nope let's Butched this power and never look back
I'm sorry if anyone's build was impacted, but we really do take it seriously when abilities are overpowered or possibly causing issues. We take action for the future health of the game, because the alternative is that any future content we release gets kneecapped by these problems. It sucks, and I wish we'd gotten it right the first time, but we can't stand by idly.