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What happened to our Bases?
dialamx
Posts: 940 Arc User
So you got us all hyped over the announcement of Hideouts. Then you gave us a few, and they were cool, but we were frothing for more. Suggestions Forum was filled with various Hideout ideas, until we got the news that Hideouts were canceled so work could be focused on Super Group Bases.
That kinda sucks, but hey, SG Bases are cool, so we were excited. Then TB gets shipped over to STO, and all news on both Hideouts and Bases went silent. Did Bases end up in the vaporware graveyard like all the costume sets that were promised through concept art teasers?
That kinda sucks, but hey, SG Bases are cool, so we were excited. Then TB gets shipped over to STO, and all news on both Hideouts and Bases went silent. Did Bases end up in the vaporware graveyard like all the costume sets that were promised through concept art teasers?
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I though Hideouts were cancelled because of lack of resources and no real use of the extra rooms. And Main Hideout Guy got beamed up.
Since only mention of SG Bases i've seen was in UNTIL Field Report in the 'Might Possibly Not Very Likely Happen' section:
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
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And it was only people posting here who claimed SG Bases were next on the agenda - that was never from the devs. (And as I noted at the time, if they were implemented like Fleet Bases in STO, I'd just as soon pass, thanks - there are enough things in this game that want to eat all my Q.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Technically everything in the hideout is a redundant fluff except for a shared bank and tailor consoles.
But after Tumerboy was moved to STO I think there's nobody left to be familiar with these maps enough to edit them.
Or at least it looks like that.
I am curious where this was seen.
It'll be one of the Archived posts, I'm sure. I remember there being a thread compiling different Hideout suggestions, and TB posting that he was told the reason more hideouts weren't coming out is because the resources for them were being moved over to SG Bases. He said he wasn't sure if they would go back to working on personal Hideouts once SG Bases were out, or if they would leave Hideouts as is and just continue working on SG Bases. Either way, he said Bases , at the time anyway, were higher priority than Hideouts.
I also remember this causing a short lived discussion between people wanting them to focus on SG Bases, and people wanting more personal Hideouts.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
took you guys long enough.
anyhow, yeah, like a number of things,(powers zones comics series, the story) they didn't get any further work, unfortunate but not really out of line here. there are sparks of life now, but id imagine that they are low on the priority list.
It's just like with the foundry talk, it is most likely never going to happen unless there is a big change in the direction they want CO to go.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Honestly, at this point, I wish Cryptic would take a chance and just make a Champions Online 2.0, having a stat system closer to the PnP, like they did for Neverwinter, refine the powers system and try to make the powers themselves unique with unique mechanics with balances and checks thrown in. Thy can also build a much larger world and allow for certain things the current engine just can't do.
Of course, that would also require some form of migration option, especially to those who have been loyal to Champions Online as it has stood now. But that is a large fanciful idea that probably won't happen for now.
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If they had a training dummy in it and / or allowed dueling inside of it with a possibility of a larger more open space type base which would be good for dueling or just testing damage I'm pretty sure it would be useful to every single player of CO. If this is something a SG could collectively work towards building up / upgrading in some way especially if it meant actually doing content and playing the game a bit a day (daily's) to do.
I think it would help the game out a lot. That being said I think any kind of addition would help the game a lot. <_<
There would certainly be no kind of migration option if they would chose to do CO 2.0, which most likely would be similar to how Neverwitner works. Thing is Cryptic already has all the animations and could still use all the models and textures seeing as it is CO so like NW it will cut out a huge part of the work needed to create the game.
If they did CO2.0 I would expect they would do a similar system to when GW2 was made, where you could get exclusive items and titles for doing stuff on your account in CO. I would love to see CO2.0 become something Cryptic is interested in doing, I truly want to see what a hero game can do when made for todays technology. I would hope that they keep it fast paced, if they did it like neverwinter with the third person aim however with travel powers I couldn't imagine how fast paced that would be. (NW counters this a bit by having a lot of things self root or slow you down when channelling it)
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
With an updated engine, retouching old graphics, yea, a lot can be done for the game as it stands, but the major hurdle is resources, and whether or not Cryptic and PWE would want to actually take a chance on another super hero title game.
I certainly love the boss fights in Neverwinter, for once feeling like I am being challenged and have to think, but that's a complaint for later.
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as for stats like PnP, oh yes, especially if they introduce the maths part. so people have to pay points for everything.
and no bonuses from gear, your stats are what you pay for and nothing else.
You want a device power, you pay for it with points.
you want an advantage on powers, you pay for it. minimum is 1/4 to the total power.
dex is off/def,
str is damage,
ego is mental off/def,
con is hps.
dex was 3 pts per point,
then you need to buy speed for your actions
plus movement speed
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Yeah I noticed you're playing Temptation SW too, I recently switched onto it. The reason you may feel it is very "CO" like in it's design was because it was designed by GC of course who actually had plans for plant powers in CO. These plans of course never happened as they were made around his plans for a cooldown nerf which also didn't happen until he left. It just so happens that later this class is made that has a very similar design to what he had planned for the plant powers, which would of been a build utilizing a plant pet that is spawned and has synergy with powers.
A big difference with NW and CO is that on NW there is a lot more than just the gear, it is like a bunch of things all layered in together to make up what your character is. CO sort of ended up becoming 6 gear slots where there is only 2 options in each slot of BiS and devices that don't give any stats themselves but (usually) have a much shorter CD than NW's.
Yeah CO could use a lot more of the forcing to move out the way of things type gameplay. I don't see why we didn't get it on any of the rampages really atleast, they almost seem like it's better not to move at all which for a super hero game with some of the fastest paced gameplay (atleast in PvP) in the MMO industry seems fairly odd. The things they could do if they made a CO 2.0 for epic boss fights would be amazingly fun to play.
As to what Chaelk said (I think you meant to say "Neverwinter" btw ;D I found that mistake kinda funny) it is designed rather "pathy." A lot of it is done in instanced indoor areas which is usually after doing some things in the open world. The game when leveling is designed so that you can keep on following the path and progressing through the story line and don't end up going down some tangent and getting lost / confused. It's made like this to make the story seem more fluent and leveling not so frustrating. The engine it is on can be much larger maps which have much more detail however. You can see this if you use the foundry you can get some pretty large spaces and the foundry isn't at all designed for super speed and other travel powers but for normal running or mount riding. The maps can actually be pretty vast if made for it.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I think she meant precisely Nevermind. Like...
Neverplay Online
Neverwhere Online
Nevermind Online
The game's nothing special and it's easy to make fun of it by twisting its name.
I felt the game was too linear and there is only one way of doing it. At least in CO we have a choice in the earlier levels of staying in the City or going to the Desert or Canada. If you want to make it easier on yourself you can do all three and get a few levels in before doing one of the other zones. If you want some instanced missions, just save a bunch of civilians so that you can get random civilian to give you missions while you hang out in the City.
I have always preferred larger zones compared to linear ones but I can also see structuring a larger zone into sections to help out a story line.
I like how Millennium City is setup and you can hang out and still do things in it. The main city in NW didn't seem like a hang out place. It was just a staging point to your next linear path.
Veteran from 2009 recently returned to the fray.
I'm also a fan of having the choices we have, but I do wish there were more. I wish we had more American cities to visit, but definitely some Over seas cities as well. We need some cities and locations for every continent, and an option to choose which location we want for our hero's starting city.
Both Tumerboy's and Robobo's plans for the game just evaporated when they went to STO, and it will probably be the same story for each executive producer that holds the role, it's a real company failing. There is zero motivation to get a development master-plan in place for the product and stick to it.
Such a shame.
Tumerboy's Official Hideouts Suggestion Thread:
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=132753
Tumerboy's Official Hideouts Functionality Thread:
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=132764
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
I realize I was ninjad two pages back >:C
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They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I think it's more of a fact that Champions doesn't have the big budget income that people want for big budget updates. You can't turn $1 into $5 just because you want a bigger burger, after all. You have to go with what you can afford.
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I think of it as Nevermind, not nevermind online but nevermind playing.
I have over 50, max levels in this game.
That one was so BORING, I never even got 1.
I tried each of the classes available but it's still all the same.
I found the maps to be follow this path to this person.
The 'alerts' were ok. but still mainly waves of mobs or spread out clumps.
The Boss fights, Boss attacks people, summons mobs, randomly attacks others.
When my new computer turns up , I may try the newer classes but I don't really expect anything from a game, which is speed run to max level then grind.
Glad to hear people like it, if the game suits you, go for it. Anyone asks me, I tell them to try it themselves. What I think of it doesn't matter, only what they think.
Me, it's pretty much everything I hate in games.
yes this one could do with more areas, especially start areas.
Like , tutorials for different backgrounds.
it could do with NON grind things to do at 40.
harder instances which you can do either solo, in a team or against another team.
vehicle races which a score board.
scavenger hunts across the maps, with special items as prizes.
It could do with a certain *cough* queue being fixed or replaced.
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OH, NO! NOT THAT GUY!
:biggrin:
Sounds a bit cynical since that's exactly what the maps are in Champions to. There is no open world concept in any modern MMO these days. Though, decidedly, there is honestly more exploring and finding random quests there than there is in Champions these days.
If you found it boring, that's fine, I just find it dubious when you say you have over 50 level 40s here but haven't made 1 level 60 there to know. In short, it doesn't help your position to be insulting about a game just because you don't like it.
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Or how I played EQ2 and the leveling was such a boring grind however they introduced a mission making thing like the foundry. Basically we made a map that had 1000 mobs all ontop of each other and a line that was the "agro line" then one of us used an aoe to stun them so the other 2 of us could aoe them and kill them all in the combo so we didn't die in a second to 1000 mobs. Basically this game took so long to level in and was such a grind that it still took us around 15 hours to level up this way. <_< When we got to max I didn't find much to do and left.
These are all personal opinions, others may enjoy parts of those 3 games. Those are only 3 of the mass of MMO's I've played in the past.
For me I've overall leveled 5 characters up to 60 in NW, my original GWF before I had a banana thrown at me in CO because I danced for it. Then I leveled up a GWF later on when I wanted to get back into the game before HR was released which I leveled. Then I leveled GF up with a friend before this latest warlock class which I'm currently now playing. I find the leveling much easier and much less grindy on NW than on other games. You know whats coming up next and you know where you are going all the time, and you know that it is the fastest way to level. Like you aren't wasting your time doing something that isn't optimal.
I'm not saying the game is better than other MMO's, just like CO. I just prefer to play them personally.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Except its well known in any business venture one has to spend money to make money, be willing to take risk, and make investments in the hopes they pay off. IE have a good idea, back that idea, and trust that idea is as good as you think it is and will return your investment time and time again.
Case in point Hideouts where a great idea and one long asked for by the players. I know I bought every one immediatly upon their release. And so did virtually everyone else I knew in game. But did that money go back into CO into a specific coffer stated to be put back into CO specifically for further hide out development? Nope the dev and that money was put into other projects. IE our investing in the game, helping its budget was effectively stolen from us.
This goes back to something I think Positron said on the COH forums after the closing was announced. A really well written post stating how even though he understood our anger and frustration at NC Soft he and the dev team and really all the players to, should be thankful for the risks NC Soft took investing in CoH time and again. How in the shadow of WoW when the chips where down, and closing the servers could have been justified based on subs alone, NC Soft invested in making City Of Villains happen. And again with Going Rogue. And again in the final year so much support was being shown, it was a large part of why everyone from paragon dev to coh player was so caught offguard by NC Softs sudden decision.
Now I have and likely will never forgive NC Soft for killing CoH, but I do always feel thankful for them keeping it burning as bright and as long as it did last for. Now I cant even begin to say the same about cryptic which feels like a group of confidence men working on constantly milking customers through investing in businesses that are merely fronts not meant to succeed. That every penny I put into CO felt like it went into STO and later NWOs development, that the wages being paid to those devs transferred came from the game I was paying to see develop at a constant and consistent rate.
Your point would be well taken if Champions has had a history of making money hand over fist. Sadly, that is not the case, especially as determined as this player base has been of blasting anything that might have had a price tag attached to it.
Proof is where it is had, they've scaled back the quality of the content because, well let's be blunt, the quantity of the returns have been disappointing. In short, the investment is what the game has proven it is willing to even bother with.
You'd have to do a lot more to prove to the bean counters taking a risky gamble with Champions, as it has been, is worth such an investment.
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You know the only truly big complaint I have ever seen made about having to pay for added content was the Viborea Bay Fiasco. The game was barely into Live mode when the info was passed to us that they planned on charging for content that had largely been worked on before the beta had ended, it smacked far to much of what we see now days with games coming out with full price tags, 10ish hours worth of content, and 2 or 3 DLC packs each with hefty price tags each adding a few more hours of content.
The game hadnt gone FTP hybrid yet. It was still in direct head on confrontation with CoH, and CoH had an established history of adding both new zones with quarterly updates and expansive paid for additions like City Of villains which was effectively doubling the content options to explore.
Now I certainly know the lock box thing gets alot of hate, but I really have no care one way or another now because the game is in its FTP hybrid era. It wasnt at the time of the Viborea Bay thing.
Now days Id happily if I still cared about CO enough to play, pay for new zones comparable with the city zones, but considering what they charge just for free form character slots, I doubt the price they would be putting on those new zones wouldnt be less then the price of a brand new triple A title.
What really keeps hurting CO is the eternal wound they themselves self inflicted with how this game launched and then changed dramatically over time. These simple factors are what create the constant harping on CO as a MMO that was rushed out far to early, really in early BETA still, and most to this day who harp on it still fill the game shows more signs of being a open beta using players to test things while STO and NWO reap all the rewards in dev experience.
Finally, if its really that bad for CO, where even their own Dev studio, let alone the umbrella company doesnt feel its worth significant investment to keep it growing strong, they should just shut it down as the game existing as is hurts Cryptics rep far more over all in how it impacts people considering playing any cryptic title then anything else.
I personally for example never have, even though I am most def a Lite Trekkie, never touched STO because I lost all faith in Cryptic due to the wayCO was handled. I never tried NWO same reason, despite being an avid table top D&D player, a former player of DDO who also lost my faith in their dev studio and could of really used a new D&D MMO to fill that niche when I am in the mood for sword and sorcery.
So while I am just one, I am one I know for a fact ignored their two later titles completely because of the failings with this one. Do you really think me such a special snow flake I am alone in this?
So I shall say again. If Cryptic, and PWE want people in general to view them favorably, they need to either put up the cash to make this game worth the time and money to play it, or shut it down, circle the wagons abit and go all in on STO and NWO if those are going to be their actively developed titles. Because an MMO that does not actively grow and change very regularly is something that just doesnt even need to be no matter what unique aspects it may have.
Considering Cryptic still maintains that Vibora was never a paid for expansion the fact people hold that up over the fact of one disgruntled employee is still fascinating. Furthermore, if you haven't seen complaints over pricing, like when adventure packs cost money, I guess you haven't looked around.
And whether you can admit it or not, it's painfully obvious that none of these ideas to give a better income to Champions have worked, not to mention the game has a small player base.
Now while you are using hyperbole to describe CoH in its early days, before NCSoft took full control CoH also had 250k subs starting out which dropped to 150k by the time CoV launched. Post NCSoft buyout new, full zones didn't come out all that frequently. And dont' get me started in the lifetime of City of Villains, villain saw exactly ONE dedicated new zone for their side and that was to get us up to level 50 cap with Grandville. Everything else was just hero additions that we got to tag along with in. The Abyss and Monster Island were added because they had no choice to keep things balanced and Mender Island isolation wasn't really needed, just done because well, reasons that were never explained.
Champions has a player base, that much is certain, but expecting Neverwinter or STO sized updates on what the income they get now from our small player base is expecting too much, honestly.
A lot needs to be done for Champions, but they can only do what they have the budget for. Development doesn't operate on well wishes and best intentions. And you would have to prove to investors that they can recoup their money by taking a risky gamble on Champions. I wish they would to, but I know that is an uphill battle, and what happens if the gamble is lost? I know the answer to that, no more Champions because then the investors would rather cut their losses instead of continuing to keep this money sink going then when you put the game into the red that way.
I know what I would like to see, and let's face it, what needs to change would not be small changes. The changes needed would be monumental and grand, nothing small at all, and probably requiring a special secondary team while the current live team keeps working on the basic updates. A complete and total over haul of the game. But that would require a massive update and investment, and in five years, again, Champions player base, as a whole (individuals can feel slighted but it's true) have proven that they don't want to take that faith and provide that support for the game.
The only way to prove to investors there is something to invest in now, is if we started to miraculous convince people this game is worth the time, getting people to put money into it, because you have five years of history that demonstrates contrary that the investment has not been appreciated.
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No it doesnt work that way. Frankly I have little doubt CO actually does bring in more then is spent back into it via cash grab mechanics. I doubt CO would still be running if it didnt. I also dont buy into, based on previous behavior, that CO funds are not constantly siphoned off to padd out the development of other projects.
This is part of the unhealing wound I spoke of, these are known facts about Cryptics past behavior. And its on cryptic to take great risks to start the healing process. Some see that in the birth of cryptic north but to me thats more of a shell game with them once again moving around responsability so each can lay blame on another department.
And the reason why you do see complaints about the prices of adventure packs, and Free form character slots is because the prices assoicated with them are just absurd. 50 bucks give or take is the equiv of an entire new game that typically promises 30+ hours on a single play through and we are not even talking working on 100% completions and finding every little in game achievement perk etc. Even 5-10 bucks on any given day on steam can find you far more for your money then the so called micro( aint nothing micro here) transactions of CO get you.
And as I have said I personally would prefer to see them shut CO down completely if its not going to be worth the risk on their part to keep investing to make it the best it can be. And honestly those who want to see CO be its best should not keep it alive just because it fills some small niche for them. Its called voting with yoru wallet, and gamers need to draw the line far more often rather then let some die hard fanboism keep them there giving cash to a company when it only endorses bad behavior
I lvoe conspiracy theories. No facts to back it up but ignoring all evidence to the contrary. Obvious you don't log into Champions then if you believe that the game is making monumental amounts of cash then.
More conspiracy theories int eh face of evidence.
I see complaints about more than that. And yet Champions of the three games actually has the cheapest micro transactions barring two of them, from their sister games. And yet everyone here, in Champions, complains about said prices. In fact there is more incentives to subscribe in Champions than there are in STO, but people say it's not enough that subscribers don't get enough, despite getting tons more than free players.
I got a better idea. You've made your feelings known more than once. How about you just go find greener pastures someplace else, because evidently you don't like it here, and you made it clear you don't want to help them.
You can call it fanboism all you want, since you are rock solid in your beliefs no matter if they fly in the face of evidence, so the fact you stick around not only shows you're psychosis, but the simple fact you are as much a fanboy as anyone else here that actually wants to support the game.
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A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
You can hate them but lockboxes have been what has helped the game.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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If it's in your personal interest to see CO shut down, then logically you should have no business posting in these forums. You have already chosen not to associate yourself with the game whether you admit it or not.
If you don't like a certain event and feel that it shouldn't be held, you simply don't participate in it. If a party is being hosted by someone you dislike or has activities that don't interest you then you simply don't attend it. You simply don't go to an event that everyone but you is enjoying and then tell them that they don't know any better. Not only is it poor form, but you'd also most definitely get shown the door.
What do you hope to achieve by coming around, telling players who are invested in the game that has entertainment value for them that you know better and at the same time, insult them? Seriously, no seriously, do tell. Believe or not you're doing no one favors. I hardly believe that you're doing it out of genuine concern for the players here or for some "greater good" of gaming. You just come off as obnoxious.
No one's stopping you from ranting about it over at other forums like Gamefaqs or Neogaf. Most likely you'll find other people who have the same sentiments as you and you get to enjoy listening to the each other in an echo chamber.
PS - I spent money on the game today, when's the giant expansion coming? u3u *watches that money walk over to STO* .... ._. geez, it's almost like even if our player base did stop complaining and started pouring money into the game it wouldn't change anything...
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It's on test now. And what angry response?
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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How "giant" of an expansion are we talking here that's being expected?
Anyone who has been playing the game for at least a while and have some sense in their head is going to immediately know that the similar content volume to that of expansions for those mentioned games are nowhere near reasonable expectations for CO.
"Expansion" within this game's context refers to new alerts or mission arcs. No one is going to assume expansions with content sizes comparable to Wrath of the Lich King or City of Villains.
You're contradicting yourself. Previously you said that there isn't a fixed definition for the word "expansion", and now you're saying that there's only one real definition and any attempt to use another definition is "misuse" of the English language?
Since we're now so particular about correct usage of the English language, "expansion" derives from the word "expand." When something expands, its size or volume increases. When a new alert or mission is added to the game, the overall content size of the game has increased, therefore having "expanded". Saying that a new alert or mission is an expansion in this case is not wrong.
If you want to argue that it's misuse of the term that's been popularly used to describe what's expected for other games for many years now, fine. Just don't call it misuse of the English language because that sounds ridiculous.
I think that given the game's current state, "expansion" rightfully refers to any form of actual content update that isn't entirely fluff or cosmetic.
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2) If I was going to float the "siphoning CO revenue for other projects" theory, I wouldn't claim the money was going to STO or NW. They seem to do just fine on their own, thank you very much.
Now if anybody wants to postulate that CO money is bankrolling Secret Project Number Four, on the other hand... Nah, I'm still not buying it. Start-up costs, even with Cryptic's shared engine, are way too high for our population to support alone. SP#4 getting a flat percentage from all three in-production games makes more sense, but Cryptic and PWE would be criminally stupid to rely on their lowest-earning game to prop up R&D for a new one.
(On the gripping hand, Cryptic was criminally stupid enough to not plan for continued CO development while simultaneously developing a major STO expansion and launching NW. Hence the Year of Lockboxes and Busy Work, our enduring predicaments, and the debates they enkindle.)
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends