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The Atomic Angel - My masterpiece

chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
edited April 2015 in Power Discussion
God, this was a struggle to share. This build hits HARD, and can tank the world. This is the new Chernobyl. It's my masterpiece. Got a touch of help from @mal666, and it finally made it behave as I want it to. It runs in avenger. It can tank gravitar and the fire side of fire and ice. It can solo alerts, the dockside dustups take me about a minute *by myself*.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Atomic Angel

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Coordinated
Level 9: Healthy Mind
Level 12: Acrobat
Level 15: Finesse
Level 18: Shrug It Off
Level 21: Diplomatic

Powers:
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Devour Essence (Rank 2, Phlebotomist)
Level 6: Pestilence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Epidemic (Rank 2, Outbreak)
Level 11: Aspect of the Infernal
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 20: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 23: Masterful Dodge
Level 26: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Ascension (Rank 2)
Level 32: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 38: Sonic Device (Deafening Dissolution)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Mystic Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Displacement Acrobatics

Specializations:
Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
Dexterity: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Dexterity: Evasion (2/2)
Dexterity: Quick Reflexes (2/3)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (1/2)
Protector: Bulwark (1/2)
Protector: Exhausting Strikes (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (1/3)
Protector: Resolute (2/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Retribution (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)

The concept I was running off of was being able to face tank all of the alerts, and then some. Flat out unkillable, was the idea. I was reluctant to share this, because it hits every note. This is a pve MONSTER. I have a friend running a similar build, and alone Chern can just bum rush anything and survive. I'm scared to see what a team of her can do.

The gist of it is, sonic device and epidemic spam. Use defile against the big guys first. Use your actives as needed, ego surge first, bcr/masterful first. Resurgence can easily be replaced by unbreakable with the same ranks for more survival, but I found the hp boost to be more efficient in the long run.

This doesn't drop aggro. It does not die. It will pull threat. It will survive it. It's the penultimate ranged dps role tank. Gearing it? gloves of piercing/gambler's. breastplate of elusiveness/gambler's. efficiency/gambler's. I run with vigilante gear, and enough ego to reach soft cap with one mod. Why is it only penultimate? lol I'll take some suggestions.

I cannot repeat often enough: this thing is devastating. I've shared it with a few friends, and they've all said the same. You don't just kill things. Things melt when you look at them. I attack the other side of alerts and meet the team in the middle. This is a leveling build. Might take a bit to start out, but it gets full on scary after 14.

This is every single drop of my skill with toxic, which is my main set. If you use it, I hope you enjoy it.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
dbnzfo.png
RIP Caine
Post edited by chalupaoffury on
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Comments

  • helbjornhelbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Interesting...

    How does it fare in Elite lairs?
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    It can solo them.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • jairevansjairevans Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Do you have any vids of it crashing Lairs? I'd like to see how you use your cooldowns on the larger packs or deal with all the knocks.

    Thanks for sharing!
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I'll sort a video tomorrow. Any lairs in particular you want me to attack? Knocks feed me health. Add me as a friend, I'll level you and show you how this thing works.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Try an Elite TT up to Valerian - probably the most challenging while practical lair run and definitely doable with a ranged offensive passive.

    Andrith is 2 single target fights with weak adds unless you want to kill the mobs for bragging rights :p On the other hand I think Mandragalore doesn't drop anything unique? Although the room before the Bronze King should be an interesting challenge too.
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Elite Andrith is another good lair. Plenty of annoying knocks and holds to deal with.

    Would be deadlier with Fire Snake thrown in here somewhere.

    Why don't you run the ACT Parser on the PH Regen Dummy and let us know what you come up with?
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I've already facerolled all of the lairs with less than this. :)

    Pretty sure if someone had a mirror, I could solo therakiel. I ran similar pre-alert and steamrolled it. Selphea, I'd totally take you up on being a witness. :D
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Elite Andrith is another good lair. Plenty of annoying knocks and holds to deal with.

    Would be deadlier with Fire Snake thrown in here somewhere.

    Why don't you run the ACT Parser on the PH Regen Dummy and let us know what you come up with?

    Good idea. I'll take you up on that. :)
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Looks good. Infernal SN is one of the most efficient sets, like Muni. I have a build kinda like this, but w/ Regen and Con PSS for knock resist and adren rush, and not as good gear. Doesn't kill as fast, but then again I dun really care what I pull w/ it most of the time. One of those 'turn off ur brain' builds for most content. Gotta have a few of those, I guess.

    Also, if ur running in DPS role (or even Hybrid if you want more aggro) I'd prob get 2/2 Bulwark, cause I dun think Unrelenting works at all if you use a TP in combat. Would also pass on exhaustive strikes, but then again my SN version doesn't end build w/ SP (would max defensive expertise instead).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    My bulwark exists to give me a bit more threat. Not a ton. I'm not a tank, after all, I'm just playing at such if nobody else is able to step up. Unrelenting? This might sound nuts, but 1 rank of it makes me not care about snares. I pvp with her, and even in pve snares suck. Chern is mobile, and designed to pull threat off of anyone doing less dps than her. Off tank.

    What's crazy? DPS role draws this more threat. I've tried this a ton, and the extra dps? I blow right the hell through the "you draw less threat" side of things. I'm taking your statement about exhaustive strikes seriously, though. I don't energy build often, all I use that for is to nerf a boss.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I've already facerolled all of the lairs with less than this. :)

    Pretty sure if someone had a mirror, I could solo therakiel. I ran similar pre-alert and steamrolled it. Selphea, I'd totally take you up on being a witness. :D

    Therakiel himself isn't hard :p But there's really no practical or rewarding challenges outside of Frosty tanking and soloing Gravi, and to a lesser extent Elite Valerian, although if you can beat her you can do pretty much the rest of TT. I suppose Duraclad kinda counts but coordinating 5 Plasma Beams is less hassle than putting 5 high DPS builds together.

    As for impractical and unrewarding challenges, there's Mega-D terminators and multiple Shadow Colossi in Resistance...
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    What's crazy? DPS role draws this more threat. I've tried this a ton, and the extra dps? I blow right the hell through the "you draw less threat" side of things. I'm taking your statement about exhaustive strikes seriously, though. I don't energy build often, all I use that for is to nerf a boss.

    Yea, the -%threat bonus from DPS roles tends to still lose out to the bonus offensive passive + 25% multiplicative dmg takes on, at least from my experience. Perhaps the threat reduction is additive in some way or has a DR of sorts, but who knows. I'm not sure there's a tried and true way of measuring threat in this game.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I think threat is just plain broken. With Shadowform and Radiant Sigils doing only 3k DPS I still pulled aggro over aiqa's 4.5k DPS lightning build in Grav - we were both ranged role too.
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Good idea. I'll take you up on that. :)

    Cool. To be honest, I've tried out the Infernal Ranged set many times and never been overly impressed with the damage even with Fire Snake running.

    What's your Defense BTW with DEX PSS and Protector spec?
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Cool. To be honest, I've tried out the Infernal Ranged set many times and never been overly impressed with the damage even with Fire Snake running.

    What's your Defense BTW with DEX PSS and Protector spec?

    Ranged Infernal's single target isn't amazing (DE is, but it's melee) but it should be close to the top for 25ft radius AoE, with the combination of freely available debuffs, DoT stacks, good base damage and most importantly no knocks or repels so you can keep AoEing.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    selphea wrote: »
    I think threat is just plain broken. With Shadowform and Radiant Sigils doing only 3k DPS I still pulled aggro over aiqa's 4.5k DPS lightning build in Grav - we were both ranged role too.

    I do agree threat is often acting a bit weird, but on Lyn I am not willing to gamble on very high threat tanks to show up every alert, and her build is just not made for tanking gravitar.

    If you still have the logs on that fight, look at incoming heals. :smile:
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Interesting build Taco, looking at it you seem to be correct about it covering all bases so awesome! :D

    I'm strongly inclined to try this build...I've never been able to get a toxic build together which behaves the way I want it to lol

    Does make me wonder though...what would your build be like damage wise if we added a drop of Svengali's Guile...or seven :wink:

    Couple things...

    What was your reasoning behind not using Expose Weakness/Deadly Aim?

    Does the builds damage just straight up own things so hard it doesn't need that?

    Based on spec'ing ES...I assume you use your energy builder a lot?

    Have you tried using Ye Olde Guardicator? How does that fare?
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    aiqa wrote: »
    I do agree threat is often acting a bit weird, but on Lyn I am not willing to gamble on very high threat tanks to show up every alert, and her build is just not made for tanking gravitar.

    If you still have the logs on that fight, look at incoming heals. :smile:

    Ah, that :p
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,310 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Mind if I ask what Atomic Angel's character background is?
  • beldinbeldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    One question : why MSA instead of Supernatural Power ? You don't even have a lunge to trigger it (if i haven't overlooked it) :confused:
    R607qMf.jpg
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    beldin wrote: »
    One question : why MSA instead of Supernatural Power ? You don't even have a lunge to trigger it (if i haven't overlooked it) :confused:

    Conviction, BCR, Ascension, Resurgence, Ego Surge and Sonic Device all have cooldowns :)
  • beldinbeldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Conviction, BCR, Ascension, Resurgence, Ego Surge and Sonic Device all have cooldowns :)

    OK .. BCR works however on the cost of less damage .. Conviction mostly eats up nearly as much as you get out of it. All the rest has to long cooldowns for me.

    Also INT as secondary SS never really worked that good for my taste with MSA, so i would still say Supernatural with REC would work better.
    R607qMf.jpg
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    beldin wrote: »
    OK .. BCR works however on the cost of less damage .. Conviction mostly eats up nearly as much as you get out of it. All the rest has to long cooldowns for me.

    Also INT as secondary SS never really worked that good for my taste with MSA, so i would still say Supernatural with REC would work better.

    Each to their own, I personally use MSA on toons with it as a secondary SS but anyway...

    It's entirely possible that this could be the case, and there could well be enough starting energy to fully charge defile without using heals...if there isn't already.

    Thing about Supernatural Power...you go too low and it doesn't proc (at least it hasn't for me on tests)

    Then again...when you look at both MSA vs Supernatural Power with 5 stats in everything and no stat increasing gear at lvl 40...MSA grants 10 energy per 3 sec for 6 sec (20 Energy) and Supernatural grants 35...

    So it is entirely possible that this build could be run like this without any REC or very little rec rather.
  • helbjornhelbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I have built this on the PTS with similar gearing and can confirm that it does quite well in the 5-man Hard Powerhouse. "Seat of the pants" testing shows it is as survivable with similar DPS to some of my defensive passive DPS oriented characters.

    I'll be using the new parser on the cosmic dummy in the PTS tonight to see what it's true ST DPS potential is. I'm also looking forward to trying it in a lair or two.

    Good work so far. Nice to see another offensive passive build that can take a beating and still dish it out.

    And to Beldin, MSA works great on this build; energy is not a problem as you're working cool downs almost constantly.
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    selphea wrote: »
    Ranged Infernal's single target isn't amazing (DE is, but it's melee) but it should be close to the top for 25ft radius AoE, with the combination of freely available debuffs, DoT stacks, good base damage and most importantly no knocks or repels so you can keep AoEing.

    True story. But DE does put out some pretty beefy damage, I'm usually threat one way or another. That's part of the reasoning behind sonic device: If I have to single target, it's a pretty nice little boost to damage for little cost. Plus, the msa proc never hurts. This really shines in melee range anyway.
    Interesting build Taco, looking at it you seem to be correct about it covering all bases so awesome! :D

    I'm strongly inclined to try this build...I've never been able to get a toxic build together which behaves the way I want it to lol

    Does make me wonder though...what would your build be like damage wise if we added a drop of Svengali's Guile...or seven :wink:

    Oh dear god.
    Couple things...

    What was your reasoning behind not using Expose Weakness/Deadly Aim?

    Does the builds damage just straight up own things so hard it doesn't need that?

    Defense. This is a rework of my old chern build, which was con based and took the offensive stuff instead of the dex defenses. I still crit all the time, and it doesn't really need defense penetration because it debuffs. Hits like a bag of trucks to begin with.
    Based on spec'ing ES...I assume you use your energy builder a lot?

    From time to time. It's an active choice, honestly. If I'm fighting a boss, I'll let the eb tick for a second or so just to debuff. I liked the idea of a power that gets no love actually having a purpose.
    Have you tried using Ye Olde Guardicator? How does that fare?

    My first build was guardicator, iirc. Honestly? The dps can go up that way, but survivability plummets. Knocks are so very prevalent that health on knock is WAY more useful than health on kill, especially considering how many bosses don't use adds. I had this running guardicator for like a month after the redesign. This works better.
    bulgarex wrote: »
    Mind if I ask what Atomic Angel's character background is?

    http://primusdatabase.com/index.php?title=Chernobyl The atomic angel is a nickname I've given her, because every time she uses her powers she's flirting with death. I don't really use her too often in game, either, because with her backstory it doesn't make sense to be constantly running her. She mostly gets dusted off when I want to steamroll something.

    Also, Monsterdaddy? Even with a few boosts to it, my defense isn't all that great. 200ish. That's more of an issue with gear than anything else. I kinda work off of the combo of some defense, some dodge, and a ton of overhealing to solo and tank stuff. After I pop conviction I have about 12k hp. What I can say about the dps though, is I go to one side of the alert and everyone else goes to the other. I can meet em in the middle at about the same time. Fire snake is clever, though. I'm gonna work on a pure dps version of this and see what I can max out the dps at. I'll definitely consider that.

    Beldin, I had supernatural power on my first rework, with rec. The cooldowns hurt, I can pretty much perma active offense and defense now. Plus, it wasn't proccing nearly enough. I can say, fwiw, that I have the opposite of energy management issues. And even if I have to eb for literally a tick, it's a debuff, so it all works out in the end. Running on anything but lazy mode, something is always coming off of cooldown.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Edit: nevermind, already responded to that. haha still need coffee.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    If I had to make a suggestion I'd say since you're not using Expose Weakness or Deadly Aim and went for the defensive stuff, and you have a ton of Con, you might as well go Primary Str and get Juggernaut.

    Should get better EHP out of 3 points into Juggernaut than 5 Tier 2 points into defensive Dex specs combined.

    Also helps with those knocks and raises your Offense with TBD and higher Severity with Brutality. Cover Avoid rating with an Avoid primary if you have to.
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    selphea wrote: »
    If I had to make a suggestion I'd say since you're not using Expose Weakness or Deadly Aim and went for the defensive stuff, and you have a ton of Con, you might as well go Primary Str and get Juggernaut.

    Should get better EHP out of 3 points into Juggernaut than 5 Tier 2 points into defensive Dex specs combined.

    Also helps with those knocks and raises your Offense with TBD and higher Severity with Brutality. Cover Avoid rating with an Avoid primary if you have to.

    Wouldn't that totally tank the crit chance though?
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Wouldn't that totally tank the crit chance though?

    Not really. From my testing, going from 28 dex to 354 Dex is only a gain of 6.7% Crit Chance Granted, this is with Justice Precision, 2x Gambler and Vigi Crit, but the idea is post-Crit nerf, Dex crit chance DR is almost a vertical cliff. It's easier to get flat crit chance from Specs or Ego Surge than from stacking Dex. Whatever damage you lose from lower Crit Chance, you should more than gain back with Brutality's Severity, especially with Ego Surge on short cooldown.
  • bravehoptoadbravehoptoad Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    selphea wrote: »
    If I had to make a suggestion I'd say since you're not using Expose Weakness or Deadly Aim and went for the defensive stuff, and you have a ton of Con, you might as well go Primary Str and get Juggernaut.

    Should get better EHP out of 3 points into Juggernaut than 5 Tier 2 points into defensive Dex specs combined.

    Also helps with those knocks and raises your Offense with TBD and higher Severity with Brutality. Cover Avoid rating with an Avoid primary if you have to.

    Hey! I was going to say that! I'm glad I pushed refresh before posting.

    Though I was going to phrase it as a tentative question instead of an authoritative statement.
    Beldin, I had supernatural power on my first rework, with rec. The cooldowns hurt, I can pretty much perma active offense and defense now. Plus, it wasn't proccing nearly enough.

    For frequency of proccing, you'd want END, not REC. REC increases the energy return; END would mean it procs at a higher and higher energy level.

    Still you have so many cooldowns I can see why you went MSA.

    It's such a cool idea...for a survivable Infernal DPS I'd always gone with a defensive passive and offensive in the talent trees. Going with an offensive passive and defensive in the talent trees was quite a stroke.
  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    This is very close to my current "Swap Man" build (my main). Just by looking at it - I can tell that the OP is not BS'ng us. My current build isn't performing as well as I'd like. So I'm going to give this a try.

    Thanks for posting this. I've been wanting to burn my last retcon and improve my infernal user, but had no real idea on how to go about it.
    Questions About AT Play? Visit Silverwolfx11's Updated AT Guides!
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I've also been respeccing my ranged toons to STR PSS. Its like have a mobile CoPD and Justice Precision adds the missing Severity buff. Expose Weakness is awesome on bosses though.

    My upcoming high DPS tanker "Nuclear Winter" is STR PSS. In parser tests I was surprised to have almost even dps between str n dex pss.

    As long as we are making suggestions, unless you really want the heal debuff I think Quarry does as much damage and buffs your defenses. But if u wanna keep Psetilence I have a neat trick for tanking Gravitar.

    First, she isn't hard from 100 ft, far less bubbles. I used Defile with Infernal Blast taps to keep 10 stacks of poison on. Plus I had Fire Snake R2 w/speed adv.

    BTW I've stopped using Supernatural Power even on melee toons in favor of MSA. Too frustrating to use IMHO.
  • oddbirdyoddbirdy Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I've got a similar, though melee-focused, infernal+bestial supernatural build running. So far it annihilates everything, and on bosses, bleeds + poisons followed up by (Devour Essence or Massacre, depending on if we're after HP or damage) is a lot of DoT and a pretty solid DPS happening. I use SP for the energy unlock, though.

    Should be interesting to see how it compares. I'm excited to see the data from the regenerating dummies. :biggrin:
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I've also been respeccing my ranged toons to STR PSS. Its like have a mobile CoPD and Justice Precision adds the missing Severity buff. Expose Weakness is awesome on bosses though.

    My upcoming high DPS tanker "Nuclear Winter" is STR PSS. In parser tests I was surprised to have almost even dps between str n dex pss.

    As long as we are making suggestions, unless you really want the heal debuff I think Quarry does as much damage and buffs your defenses. But if u wanna keep Psetilence I have a neat trick for tanking Gravitar.

    First, she isn't hard from 100 ft, far less bubbles. I used Defile with Infernal Blast taps to keep 10 stacks of poison on. Plus I had Fire Snake R2 w/speed adv.

    BTW I've stopped using Supernatural Power even on melee toons in favor of MSA. Too frustrating to use IMHO.

    Yeah, that is rather surprising. The knock resist has to be a pretty nice thing to boot.

    I like the heal debuff for ao' and the like, some pvp gets a lot easier if you can just tank their self heals. I do like the idea of a long-range version of this, though. One of my preliminary builds was running a similar idea with the infernal blast taps. Pretty legit, really. I hadn't even considered quarry. Does seem pretty logical at the end, though, since quarry is head and shoulders above most passives right now. Can't say I wouldn't miss firing off ego surge pre-fight, though. If the first pestilence tick crits, they all do. That's not an insignificant chunk of free dps. I can say, though, the bubbles don't get me unless I don't block. After blocking I still walk out with like a third of my hp, which isn't too bad to recover. She's tankable with this if you're smart, I don't find myself dying too incredibly often. Mostly when I get bubbled and chain cascaded, but that'd take out most tanks anyway.

    My beef with supernatural power is that it doesn't always trigger, and when it does it's not always useful. If I have to stop a maintain to build energy, my EU is failing to some degree. Especially considering the fact that a decent portion of my active rotation doesn't involve supernatural abilities, that's a pretty big hindrance. What got me specifically away from it is that spamming epidemic, it'd sometimes fire a bit late, and I'd have to retrigger the power. I tried a variety of stats to make it work, because it really does fit theme rather well, but it was just a no-go for me.That costs dps, especially since ATM I pretty reliably get 10 poison stacks on 2 full uses of the power. That's costing poison and concentration, which is a bit of a no-go since I'm already stacking so much defensive stuff. It's really a matter of having to be as efficient as possible.

    Sidenote, to a few of the comments: I'm trying to get justice gear for this thing myself, I'm hella curious to see how it'll perform with that much of a boost. It'll probably involve a bit of a respec, this might be a bit overkill with all of those stats. Not to mention that from what I gather justice gear gives offense and defense. Legion's, not so much, some of what I'm actively running is a band-aid solution because of a lack of the top end gear. I'd say resurgence in particular would probably go, it's a panic button for if I get spiked too hard and my other stuff is still on cooldown. Even now it doesn't happen too frequently, with justice gear that'd probably get traded for a rez or something. A self rez for the damn ice knives, which at the moment are the only real bane to my existence.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I think Gravitar's nastiest attack is a knock up followed immediately by her Black Hole vortex and extra high damage blue bubble. If you're unlucky the blue bubble explodes before you can get up and block. That's a good time for extra Defense from Juggernaut to help. And she likes to crit bubble me at the worse times.

    Seriously with the severity and crit rating nerfs STR is a very viable alternative to dex or ego.
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I'ma take it to pts later and fiddle with it.

    Oof, if it's better though. That's gonna be a rather expensive regear. I already have seen on one of my alts (this one's twin sister, in fact) that str can make a dpser flat out insane to put down. I was hesitant to switch over, partially because "see it hurts because I throw the radiation at you harder, with my mighty muscles" was a bit tough to swallow. But it's not like people can see my superstats in game anyway, no point letting that hold me back.

    This is what I'm looking at based on the feedback:

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name: Atomic Angel

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Devastator
    Level 6: Physical Conditioning
    Level 9: Healthy Mind
    Level 12: Body and Mind
    Level 15: Mighty
    Level 18: Enduring
    Level 21: Brilliant

    Powers:
    Level 1: Infernal Bolts
    Level 1: Devour Essence (Rank 2, Phlebotomist)
    Level 6: Pestilence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Epidemic (Rank 2, Outbreak)
    Level 11: Aspect of the Infernal
    Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 20: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 23: Masterful Dodge
    Level 26: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 29: Ascension (Rank 2)
    Level 32: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
    Level 38: Rebirth

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Mystic Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Displacement Acrobatics (Versatility)

    Specializations:
    Strength: Swole (3/3)
    Strength: Aggression (2/2)
    Strength: Brutality (2/2)
    Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
    Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
    Protector: Defensive Expertise (2/3)
    Protector: Resolute (3/3)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: Retribution (2/2)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)


    I can see off/def skyrocketing, my crit chance is going to suffer a bit, as will dodge/avoid. Knockability's gonna go down, but I'm losing my anti-snare abilities and I no longer have a free 10% incoming damage debuff from my EB. Instead, I'm gonna have faster defensive clickies and more hp on knocks. Probably a ton more hp all around, actually, that's the one huge upside to str primary.

    I'm not sure that this is totally an improvement, but it definitely changes things up a bit. Feels like I gave up some diversity to be more focused on specific things, and I'll be honest: I liked my bag of tricks. I guess a bit of testing will show one way or another if that's better or not, I'm going into this impartially. Either way we go, I'm 100% positive they're both exceedingly viable.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I think Gravitar's nastiest attack is a knock up followed immediately by her Black Hole vortex and extra high damage blue bubble. If you're unlucky the blue bubble explodes before you can get up and block. That's a good time for extra Defense from Juggernaut to help. And she likes to crit bubble me at the worse times.
    Hate that combo. She also tends to explode those bubbles after a pull a bit earlier than usual- the damage isn't delayed like it normally is w/ her other bubbles.
    I'm not sure that this is totally an improvement, but it definitely changes things up a bit. Feels like I gave up some diversity to be more focused on specific things, and I'll be honest: I liked my bag of tricks. I guess a bit of testing will show one way or another if that's better or not, I'm going into this impartially. Either way we go, I'm 100% positive they're both exceedingly viable.
    Str PSS is making it a bit more specialized, cause even if knock resist is great, its not helpful everywhere- kinda just depends on the content ya running tbh. Juggernaut is nearly always good, but if ya didn't have survival issues before then its not like ya need it either.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,139 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I have to say after teaming with Taco and seeing Chern in action...I almost felt compelled to start a Villain NPC Rights movement, they were chewed up.

    And beats my Cindy Lovecrit in DPS. (Although we did have a moment in Ao'healz4lyfe where we shared aggro :3)

    It does exactly what Taco said it does. It obliterates.
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I felt terrible for the mobs during that. A single tear was shed for master villain default.
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Str PSS is making it a bit more specialized, cause even if knock resist is great, its not helpful everywhere- kinda just depends on the content ya running tbh. Juggernaut is nearly always good, but if ya didn't have survival issues before then its not like ya need it either.

    And that's the thing, I'm not. My hp is capped 99% of the time, I blow cooldowns just to keep myself topped off. When I solo sections of alerts, I *might* get down to half of my hp if I'm feeling saucy and there's a ton of cc. The Ao' bank near the first door, with the multiple master villains, can get me there if I'm pushing really hard. But death is never really a risk.

    Honestly, what I'm looking for more is a dps boost. It's already a chainsaw, but I really want to find a way to take it over the top. I know getting rid of ascension and replacing it with a more combat-oriented offensive clicky might do the job, but I built her to play trinity all at once, and the aoe heal is really helpful. Plus, I love the concept of the atomic angel.

    Finding wiggle room on this to beef it up and still tank is difficult. Swapping the ego soft cap for more con really worked for me, though. So, thanks for that. :)
    In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008.
    dbnzfo.png
    RIP Caine
  • edited July 2014
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  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    STR indirectly buffs Offense thru Juggernaut in a Vind/BD build. But Expose Weakness is still very good. Justice Precision helps make up for the loss of severity rating Dex Mastery offered. So with some knock resistance yes STR can match DEX in dps in real encounters.
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Thing is the original build used the dodge and avoid specs in T2 so there was no room for Dex's damage stuff.
  • helbjornhelbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I've done some extensive testing with this build as set forth in the OP, including gearing and stat-ing (though I dropped the EGO mod as you stated you did for more CON) and I'm having difficulty seeing where the DPS and survivability are.

    My "seat of the pants" impression I mentioned earlier in the thread held true to parsing data, which puts the best ST and AoE runs I could muster on the regenerating dummy at 2k each. ST runs consisted of spamming Sonic Device and fully charged Defiles, AoE runs were Defile taps followed by Sonic Device with Epidemic runs until the debuff wore off, then renewed. I even tried some AoE runs with a Defile tap before each Epidemic. AO's were kept on cooldown at all times. All runs were begun with 8 Conc stacks up and AoE runs were begun with 10 stacks of poison also up.

    For comparison, my similarly geared Might/Fire/Invuln character in Hybrid role puts out 3k ST and 2k AoE DPS.

    Also, I put your build through Elite Andrith and it got creamed by groups with more than two master villains, as it couldn't DPS them down fast enough to prevent its defenses and healing from being overwhelmed. I've solo'd this lair with a few of my own builds, so I know my way around it pretty well.

    Perhaps your final build is different than the one I ended up with, but my base stats were as follows: DEX 172, CON 298, INT 298, CC 32.2%, Sev 78.1%, Off 9.3%, Def 38%, Dodge 20%, Avoid 60.7%. And per my testing, Gloves of Piercing are a slight DPS drop over Gloves of Precision for this build.

    Please believe me when I say that I'm not trying to dump on your build, I would love to see an Infernal build like this do what you say it can do, but apparently I need more help figuring out how it does that.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Hm, I dunno how it held up to your previous expectations, helbjorn (which were mostly positive). It looks like it entirely let them down, actually :p

    2k AoE dps, though- I assume you mean per target w/ that figure, and still in Ranged role? Cause that's actually pretty good for AoE, considering its very wide reach. My Scourge AT tests w/ Rec PSS (bleh) but the lighter AT DR wasn't much higher in AoE if using Outbreak over R3 (2.35k w/o Defile), but capped the single-target dps at around 2.9k w/ R3 Epidemic being boosted by Defile and 10x DP (2.5-2.6k for Outbreak). So ur results aren't actually too far off from what I'd expect of an FF Infernal building to be a hybrid of survival and dps (and the original build didn't have firesnake, if that's the one ya using).

    It could be higher for using Pestilence and AotI, but if you tested on Regen dummies then Pestilence won't fully shine either. For single-target, Infernal SN's best move is actually DE, but it has to be built around separately from everything else to work since its melee; every other option for the powerset will not impress for single-target dps when built around. Defile would be alright, but the tooltip's activation time is likely off and that throws its base dps lower than it should be, which is already a lower base than DE.

    As far as survival, its interesting because the OP's own experiences are quite contrasting with yours. I would expect some user variance there, but not too much. Guess that'll come down to figuring out if you two are doing anything vastly different in practice.


    Also, ur Might/fire hybrid-tank.. uses Haymaker w/ Demolish, right? UA + Conflag for AoE? Both of those will pull good #'s in comparison, and sets a pretty high bar.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • edited July 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • helbjornhelbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I'm really not trying to be negative here at all, I just want to understand how to reproduce these anecdotal results, as I love the power set and would like to know how to make it shine like we've been told it can.

    Perhaps how it performs is what I'm already used to and I bought into some understandable hype; I don't know.

    A better breakdown of base stats, a parse or two, and/or perhaps a video demonstrating capabilities, rotation patterns, and strategies would be helpful.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,852 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    I use something similar on one of my toons, only CON DEX INT. I havent parsed dps, but it seems considerable, and my survival is top notch for a dps role toon, I tank gravitar and warlord easily.

    Should note that the original build is Dex PSS and lacks in knock resistance. I have no doubt it can tank Gravi relatively easily w/ some modifications, as I've done the same w/ less survival powers/specs and a melee dps focused build w/ R3 DE. But ya def don't want to do it w/ the original build. Ya want Con PSS's Resilient, Str PSS, or CoPD for her or its likely that knock rng combos will kill you.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • monsterdaddymonsterdaddy Posts: 795 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    helbjorn, from reading what you wrote here and also on the severity thread, I think I figured out the severity % issue.

    If you are using piercing, that should grant you ~13.7% critical severity IF you have no other Severity rating buff. BUT YOU DO! You got DEX mastery bro! That's 10 severity rating right there.

    You state you have 78.1% which sounds right to me:

    50% base + 10% from Ruthless + 15% from 10 severity rating = 75%

    Adding 4.6 more severity rating for a total of 14.6 = 78.1%

    And don't kill yourself if the build didn't perform as well as you expected. This is EvilTaco's thread and I didn't want to troll it. But I'll politely share with deference to EvilTaco that IMHO it wasn't optimal for either DPS or durability.

    You really can't go wrong with DEX as PSS but Deadly Aim and Expose Weakness give a lot of DPS for a small tradeoff in Dodge/Avoidance (those specs need serious buffing). Same thing with going Vindicator/Guardian (because they add more Defense than Protector which makes no sense).

    Quarry is also a staple for a durable range toon. With DEX Mastery, just go with a Justice Healing Glove, with Quarry go with Fitness BP and with INT SS get MSA, gear up with a Barricade/Hospital secondary plus 1 to 2 INT mods with CON for the rest.

    Alternately go STR PSS for Knock and tons of Defense from Juggernaut. Justice Precision gives 11% severity, you probably be at 115% severity with 26% crit % (but you have Nimble Mind).
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    helbjorn wrote: »
    Perhaps your final build is different than the one I ended up with, but my base stats were as follows: DEX 172, CON 298, INT 298, CC 32.2%, Sev 78.1%, Off 9.3%, Def 38%, Dodge 20%, Avoid 60.7%. And per my testing, Gloves of Piercing are a slight DPS drop over Gloves of Precision for this build.

    It looks like you're using Agility rather than Elusiveness on the Pri Def. OP also said Vigi gear so I'm guessing at least 260 Dex with two 338 HP boosts. Probably 4 Con mods and 2 Int too, but that's just a feeling. The extra Con should help with burning mobs down during Ego Surge.

    If anything though, I'd chalk it up to some tactical pulling to chokepoints with Defile and then popping Sonic Device to handle crowds of Elite Lair mobs. I did that with Crystal in TT in my cone attack video, although I popped Sigils rather than Sonic Device but the idea is to use any advantage you can get :p Used a healing item there but that should be unnecessary with a bigger HP pool and better timing with Block on the way out of the cave.
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