Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Yea, you forgot Heroes for Hire to. There are many who get paid for their work.
I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to make to me... how is this relevant to the idea that actions that carry no risk should not carry a reward? You and Jon both seem to want to debate what is appropriate for the genre. That's all fine and well, but I'm not sure why either of you thought that responding to me as if I wanted to debate that made any sense. After all, the genre is a big place, you could probably find an example of anything in it; there are a lot of comic books that have been made over the years, and not many conventions that anyone is required to stick to. Trying to argue that there are any required conventions in the genre at all seems rather futile when you consider that.
On the other hand, arguing that games need to balance rewards with the effort needed to obtain them, that's just basic.
I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to make to me... how is this relevant to the idea that actions that carry no risk should not carry a reward? You and Jon both seem to want to debate what is appropriate for the genre. That's all fine and well, but I'm not sure why either of you thought that responding to me as if I wanted to debate that made any sense. After all, the genre is a big place, you could probably find an example of anything in it; there are a lot of comic books that have been made over the years, and not many conventions that anyone is required to stick to. Trying to argue that there are any required conventions in the genre at all seems rather futile when you consider that.
On the other hand, arguing that games need to balance rewards with the effort needed to obtain them, that's just basic.
You claimed heroes don't get paid and don't work to upgrade or improve their gear. There are many in comics that would disagree.
You claimed heroes don't get paid and don't work to upgrade or improve their gear. There are many in comics that would disagree.
But there are heroes who don't get paid, and who don't have gear at all... so a claim that heroes don't get paid and don't have gear is actually a perfectly accurate claim. Or are you claiming that all heroes get paid and have gear?
Remember, my statement was qualified with "by and large", and going by the few examples you've provided it would seem that that is the correct term to use, unless you care to provide enough examples to indicate that more than just a few heroes get paid for what they do.
One thing you haven't provided an example of is comic heroes who use CO's gearing system, i.e. beating up criminals and taking their gear to use for oneself (and doing this repeatedly throughout their career as a hero). Now, I'm sure if you try hard enough you'll be able to dig up something... but will you be able to find enough examples to overcome the claim that "by and large" heroes don't do this?
I would also be quite amused if you could find an example of a hero punching out a mugger and then demanding a reward from the person they were about to mug. I look forward to seeing what you dig up.
On the other hand, you could just abandon the trivial argument that you've started, seeing as there was never really anything for you to dispute in the first place.
In the context of rp, anyone else arguing that anyone else's character is 'op' is flat out ridiculous. Who precisely decides this?
And if you're in a situation where you have to worry about another person's character being 'op,' it's probably because you picked a fight with them.. in which case, you know? Deal with what you've brought on yourself.
It's a game.
People really need to stop being such whiny brats.
In the context of rp, anyone else arguing that anyone else's character is 'op' is flat out ridiculous. Who precisely decides this?
And if you're in a situation where you have to worry about another person's character being 'op,' it's probably because you picked a fight with them.. in which case, you know? Deal with what you've brought on yourself.
It's a game.
People really need to stop being such whiny brats.
It's a game, that requires there to be challenges for the heroes to overcome. RP is a pitiful excuse for the lack of balance or challenges. Superman would hardly be an interesting character without something that would challenge even his strength, intelligence or speed on a regular basis, same with Captain America, Batman or any other character within their story. And that's the problem with this game. Even a mook can shoot and kill Batman if Batman started getting sloppy. I am sure a mook with a magic bullet could do the same to Superman, if Superman was sloppy. And that's the major problem with Champions as it stands, even the hardest content is not a challenge to the average build, and quite frankly, our heroes are sloppy. They should have been dead many times over, even those with god mode RP characters that are literal gods. They should be dead to.
But there are heroes who don't get paid, and who don't have gear at all... so a claim that heroes don't get paid and don't have gear is actually a perfectly accurate claim. Or are you claiming that all heroes get paid and have gear?
Outside of Superman, since his diet is questionable at times, since there are stories that say he needs to eat and others that say he's a plant basically, every hero has a source of income or method to get resources. So yes, they need to be paid.
Bruce Wayne has his family's business that provides not only money, but research and development for his tech. Tony Stark is the same way. In fact many stories do have the MacGuffin that needs to be gathered to stop the villain in order to prevent the apocalypse of doom event that requires going to the ends of the earth, some mystical dimension or beating some bad guy or cult to acquire in many stories. For instance, Batman developing a cure for the Joker toxin, he needed to have samples of the toxin in order to analyze and create an antidote, Tony Stark in Iron Man 2 had to research and create a new element to keep himself from being poisoned, Blade had to regularly acquire special ingredients for his serum and often looted the vamps and their familiars to get funds for all this stuff he needed.
But there are heroes who don't get paid, and who don't have gear at all... so a claim that heroes don't get paid and don't have gear is actually a perfectly accurate claim. Or are you claiming that all heroes get paid and have gear?
Remember, my statement was qualified with "by and large", and going by the few examples you've provided it would seem that that is the correct term to use, unless you care to provide enough examples to indicate that more than just a few heroes get paid for what they do.
Outside of Superman, since his diet is questionable at times, since there are stories that say he needs to eat and others that say he's a plant basically, every hero has a source of income or method to get resources. So yes, they need to be paid.
Bruce Wayne has his family's business that provides not only money, but research and development for his tech. Tony Stark is the same way. In fact many stories do have the MacGuffin that needs to be gathered to stop the villain in order to prevent the apocalypse of doom event that requires going to the ends of the earth, some mystical dimension or beating some bad guy or cult to acquire in many stories. For instance, Batman developing a cure for the Joker toxin, he needed to have samples of the toxin in order to analyze and create an antidote, Tony Stark in Iron Man 2 had to research and create a new element to keep himself from being poisoned, Blade had to regularly acquire special ingredients for his serum and often looted the vamps and their familiars to get funds for all this stuff he needed.
I don't see how anything you've said justifies our characters getting a reward for doing something that took no effort and was no risk.
Like I said before, there are examples of many things in comic books. However, not all of those things transfer very well into good game mechanics.
If you want the game to pile loads of loot on your for every little one-shot thug you fight that's fine, but I don't think it would be very healthy for the game, and no matter how many times you point out that there are heroes who do get paid ( which, I will remind you, I never disputed the existence of ), it won't change that fact.
It's true...unless they're on a big team or are rich or are heroes for hire...
most super heroes have day jobs. That's part of what makes a lot of them interesting...how they balance paying the bills with spending nights/all the time dishing out justice.
Though in Champions Online we earn resources which represent more than just monetary compensation far as I understand. Our characters are not getting paid necessarily...but our notoriety and reputation are awarding us certain perks which allows us access to better gear and equipment.
Though in Champions Online we earn resources which represent more than just monetary compensation far as I understand. Our characters are not getting paid necessarily...but our notoriety and reputation are awarding us certain perks which allows us access to better gear and equipment.
Yeah, this. I think this has been forgotten in the discussion that arose. Our characters are not earning money for taking out bad guys.
Maybe in the PnP, but running any mission here argues otherwise. Pew pew=monies.
Pew pew =/= monies. Pew pew = reputation, which for some reason means we can get things from certain vendors. On the other hand, if it were possible to enter one of those convenience stores in-game, I bet you wouldn't be able to pay for a bag of chips and a soda with tales of how well you're regarded locally and nationally...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Maybe in the PnP, but running any mission here argues otherwise. Pew pew=monies.
Spar and the others are right, earning a living matters at some point. Why you're arguing against in game rescources doled out for tasks.....
Oh!
Oh.....
I'm not arguing against in-game resources, at no point did I do that. Just pointing out that our in-game resources are not supposed to represent $, but rather popularity and respect on Global, National and Local levels, which allows them access to stuff.
Now you could point out that it works like money does in other MMOs and I would say you're right, but there's an important reason why it's not called, say Millenium Dollars.
Pew pew =/= monies. Pew pew = reputation, which for some reason means we can get things from certain vendors. On the other hand, if it were possible to enter one of those convenience stores in-game, I bet you wouldn't be able to pay for a bag of chips and a soda with tales of how well you're regarded locally and nationally...
I think if Super Man walked into a convenience store, walked up to the counter with a bag of chips and a soda, and then said "Oh hey I forgot my wallet" there's a fairly high likelyhood the clerk would say "Don't worry about it, it's on the house Super Man!" with a big smile on his face.
Hell, cops get stuff for free, and if not free then at a discount, at places all the time, and they never stopped a meteorite. The bar for reputation getting you stuff is pretty low. Just look to hollywood for even more examples.
Pew pew =/= monies. Pew pew = reputation, which for some reason means we can get things from certain vendors. On the other hand, if it were possible to enter one of those convenience stores in-game, I bet you wouldn't be able to pay for a bag of chips and a soda with tales of how well you're regarded locally and nationally...
Pew pew =/= monies. Pew pew = reputation, which for some reason means we can get things from certain vendors. On the other hand, if it were possible to enter one of those convenience stores in-game, I bet you wouldn't be able to pay for a bag of chips and a soda with tales of how well you're regarded locally and nationally...
Maybe not in game, but in real life my local 7-11 vendor just might. He's very understanding. And a 'global" citizen....eh this is what happens when exhaustion and my poor sense of humor kicks in.
I think if Super Man walked into a convenience store, walked up to the counter with a bag of chips and a soda, and then said "Oh hey I forgot my wallet" there's a fairly high likelyhood the clerk would say "Don't worry about it, it's on the house Super Man!" with a big smile on his face.
Hell, cops get stuff for free, and if not free then at a discount, at places all the time, and they never stopped a meteorite. The bar for reputation getting you stuff is pretty low. Just look to hollywood for even more examples.
As a superhero today I think people would be be paying you to use their stuff :O They'd be all "Hey Spiderman, eat our McSpidey Happy Meal and I'll buy you a new condo! Just remember to smile and say 'I'm lovin' it!' when our strategically placed Instagram blogger comes along..."
As a superhero today I think people would be be paying you to use their stuff :O They'd be all "Hey Spiderman, eat our McSpidey Happy Meal and I'll buy you a new condo! Just remember to smile and say 'I'm lovin' it!' when our strategically placed Instagram blogger comes along..."
As a superhero today I think people would be be paying you to use their stuff :O They'd be all "Hey Spiderman, eat our McSpidey Happy Meal and I'll buy you a new condo! Just remember to smile and say 'I'm lovin' it!' when our strategically placed Instagram blogger comes along..."
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Comments
I mean, it's right there in the title.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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I'm not really sure of the point you're trying to make to me... how is this relevant to the idea that actions that carry no risk should not carry a reward? You and Jon both seem to want to debate what is appropriate for the genre. That's all fine and well, but I'm not sure why either of you thought that responding to me as if I wanted to debate that made any sense. After all, the genre is a big place, you could probably find an example of anything in it; there are a lot of comic books that have been made over the years, and not many conventions that anyone is required to stick to. Trying to argue that there are any required conventions in the genre at all seems rather futile when you consider that.
On the other hand, arguing that games need to balance rewards with the effort needed to obtain them, that's just basic.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You claimed heroes don't get paid and don't work to upgrade or improve their gear. There are many in comics that would disagree.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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But there are heroes who don't get paid, and who don't have gear at all... so a claim that heroes don't get paid and don't have gear is actually a perfectly accurate claim. Or are you claiming that all heroes get paid and have gear?
Remember, my statement was qualified with "by and large", and going by the few examples you've provided it would seem that that is the correct term to use, unless you care to provide enough examples to indicate that more than just a few heroes get paid for what they do.
One thing you haven't provided an example of is comic heroes who use CO's gearing system, i.e. beating up criminals and taking their gear to use for oneself (and doing this repeatedly throughout their career as a hero). Now, I'm sure if you try hard enough you'll be able to dig up something... but will you be able to find enough examples to overcome the claim that "by and large" heroes don't do this?
I would also be quite amused if you could find an example of a hero punching out a mugger and then demanding a reward from the person they were about to mug. I look forward to seeing what you dig up.
On the other hand, you could just abandon the trivial argument that you've started, seeing as there was never really anything for you to dispute in the first place.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
And if you're in a situation where you have to worry about another person's character being 'op,' it's probably because you picked a fight with them.. in which case, you know? Deal with what you've brought on yourself.
It's a game.
People really need to stop being such whiny brats.
It's a game, that requires there to be challenges for the heroes to overcome. RP is a pitiful excuse for the lack of balance or challenges. Superman would hardly be an interesting character without something that would challenge even his strength, intelligence or speed on a regular basis, same with Captain America, Batman or any other character within their story. And that's the problem with this game. Even a mook can shoot and kill Batman if Batman started getting sloppy. I am sure a mook with a magic bullet could do the same to Superman, if Superman was sloppy. And that's the major problem with Champions as it stands, even the hardest content is not a challenge to the average build, and quite frankly, our heroes are sloppy. They should have been dead many times over, even those with god mode RP characters that are literal gods. They should be dead to.
Outside of Superman, since his diet is questionable at times, since there are stories that say he needs to eat and others that say he's a plant basically, every hero has a source of income or method to get resources. So yes, they need to be paid.
Bruce Wayne has his family's business that provides not only money, but research and development for his tech. Tony Stark is the same way. In fact many stories do have the MacGuffin that needs to be gathered to stop the villain in order to prevent the apocalypse of doom event that requires going to the ends of the earth, some mystical dimension or beating some bad guy or cult to acquire in many stories. For instance, Batman developing a cure for the Joker toxin, he needed to have samples of the toxin in order to analyze and create an antidote, Tony Stark in Iron Man 2 had to research and create a new element to keep himself from being poisoned, Blade had to regularly acquire special ingredients for his serum and often looted the vamps and their familiars to get funds for all this stuff he needed.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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It's called the Maria Stark Foundation. Yes, that's right, even the Avengers get paid.
I don't see how anything you've said justifies our characters getting a reward for doing something that took no effort and was no risk.
Like I said before, there are examples of many things in comic books. However, not all of those things transfer very well into good game mechanics.
If you want the game to pile loads of loot on your for every little one-shot thug you fight that's fine, but I don't think it would be very healthy for the game, and no matter how many times you point out that there are heroes who do get paid ( which, I will remind you, I never disputed the existence of ), it won't change that fact.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
most super heroes have day jobs. That's part of what makes a lot of them interesting...how they balance paying the bills with spending nights/all the time dishing out justice.
Though in Champions Online we earn resources which represent more than just monetary compensation far as I understand. Our characters are not getting paid necessarily...but our notoriety and reputation are awarding us certain perks which allows us access to better gear and equipment.
Yeah, this. I think this has been forgotten in the discussion that arose. Our characters are not earning money for taking out bad guys.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Maybe in the PnP, but running any mission here argues otherwise. Pew pew=monies.
Spar and the others are right, earning a living matters at some point. Why you're arguing against in game rescources doled out for tasks.....
Oh!
Oh.....
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I'm not arguing against in-game resources, at no point did I do that. Just pointing out that our in-game resources are not supposed to represent $, but rather popularity and respect on Global, National and Local levels, which allows them access to stuff.
Now you could point out that it works like money does in other MMOs and I would say you're right, but there's an important reason why it's not called, say Millenium Dollars.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
I think if Super Man walked into a convenience store, walked up to the counter with a bag of chips and a soda, and then said "Oh hey I forgot my wallet" there's a fairly high likelyhood the clerk would say "Don't worry about it, it's on the house Super Man!" with a big smile on his face.
Hell, cops get stuff for free, and if not free then at a discount, at places all the time, and they never stopped a meteorite. The bar for reputation getting you stuff is pretty low. Just look to hollywood for even more examples.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Recognition = Reputation?
Just saying, it's there. :cool:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Maybe not in game, but in real life my local 7-11 vendor just might. He's very understanding. And a 'global" citizen....eh this is what happens when exhaustion and my poor sense of humor kicks in.
As a superhero today I think people would be be paying you to use their stuff :O They'd be all "Hey Spiderman, eat our McSpidey Happy Meal and I'll buy you a new condo! Just remember to smile and say 'I'm lovin' it!' when our strategically placed Instagram blogger comes along..."
I would say that Recognition points/tokens are recognition from MCPD, UNTIL, PRIMUS and Champions for what you've done. Recognition =/= reputation.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods