Next time, you may want to read everything before you jump into the middle of a discussion and throw baseless/half-informed claims around.
Thank you shieldtower. I hate you so much but the booty game ridiculous.
Like I said, I get it if this 'wouldn't be your thing'. I wouldn't even completely bail on CO for it (it would honestly take a pretty wild game to get me to leave my Roleplaying friends behind).
However, I think that Cryptic would do well to tap into his absurd amount of source material. I hate how even a setting I dislike for its cheesiness (Champions) can be reduced to this level of generic-ness. After skimming across the web, I've seen some pretty interesting-looking genre and sub-genre books.
Holy crap, there's even a 'Fantasy' hero system games. And a sci-fi one. Does Cryptic own 'Champions' or like, all of the interchangeable IP's associated with it?
Edit- addition.
I've always wondered why there is no 'origin' map in CO (or CoX). Granted, I know the game is limited in space...
But it's just kind of... I don't really know. Johnny Hellfire the Devil-Wizard starts off the same way as Captain Thunderbutt and Gritty McMurdergun. Was 'origin zone' not a thought? I mean, it's fairly common in other MMORPG's.
I've always wondered why there is no 'origin' map in CO (or CoX). Granted, I know the game is limited in space...
But it's just kind of... I don't really know. Johnny Hellfire the Devil-Wizard starts off the same way as Captain Thunderbutt and Gritty McMurdergun. Was 'origin zone' not a thought? I mean, it's fairly common in other MMORPG's.
This is one thing that always bothered me. Games tend to handwave this by dropping you in the middle of a catastrophe but it would be nice if the game recognized what kind of character your character is. If you are a Batman-type character, quests and so forth should reflect this. A superman-type character would be different as well. A mean to further mix it with the lore of the series would have been perfect. So if a character has a history with VIPER, the game would reflect it, either through dialogue, quests involving them that you can't get with a different origin, or even surprise attacks from them or something. Neverwinter has something like this although it's just a small handful of quests more than an actual quest chain or something.
"I tried to look at that page but saw only inane comments."
This is one thing that always bothered me. Games tend to handwave this by dropping you in the middle of a catastrophe but it would be nice if the game recognized what kind of character your character is. If you are a Batman-type character, quests and so forth should reflect this. A superman-type character would be different as well. A mean to further mix it with the lore of the series would have been perfect. So if a character has a history with VIPER, the game would reflect it, either through dialogue, quests involving them that you can't get with a different origin, or even surprise attacks from them or something. Neverwinter has something like this although it's just a small handful of quests more than an actual quest chain or something.
It's been a while, but I remember in Lineage 2 and WoW, starting in my own 'race' area. I kind of thought that was a common thing.
It's been a while, but I remember in Lineage 2 and WoW, starting in my own 'race' area. I kind of thought that was a common thing.
Yeah some of the older ones did that. LOTR did that too if I remember correctly. DCUO attempts to do that (not very well) and tries to change things up quest-wise based on who your mentor is but it all falls apart rather quickly in that sense. The whole "disaster zone" common starting point is kind of annoying.
"I tried to look at that page but saw only inane comments."
.....your precious pal there insists on coming back and digging. I suggest you read his posts.
Not "precious pal", just decent guy that I know him to be. I have read his posts, I have followed this thread closely since the begining. I like the idea of somehow tying Dark Champions to our favourite MMO here. I just feel that you're doing yourself a disservice with your alpha-male attempts to put him down.
Nor do I like being insulted by someone who thinks they are being clever. He isn't, he's talked down his nose to me since he spewed into this discussion....
This comment could be so easily applied to your responses to his comments.
I wasn't gonna reply back, but you called me out by implying that I hadn't fully read the thread. Not so.
Please continue with your thoughts on bringing Dark Champions into CO, I am interested in the idea.
Wrong, the semantics I referred to were you attempting to claim omitting is not the same as removing when in actual fact you mean removing not omitting.
2- An entirely new alternate leveling zone, or rather a 'large comic pack'. Nothing was recommended to be omitted.
Wrong, this was by your admission Jonsil's suggestion and he has repeated his desire to prevent capes entering the zone. You never made it clear if you intended to allow superpowers, magical, whimsical or crazytech toons to enter. As I have asked before and you still have failed to reply, if so how would this differ to my suggestion?
If referencing the theme of CO is 'silly', perhaps again- as I said, you should probably re-evaluate yourself or seek therapy. Fictional things and criticism of those things should not be considered 'inflammatory'. The only thing 'inflamed' is you, and as I said- I think you should stop being so 'offended' by another human's opinion. Well-adjusted adults do not do this.
Misquoting much? Suggesting people are not allowed to play a type of toon they have paid for in this game will cause people to be inflamed. Since my opinion has clearly offended you, by your definition you are not well adjusted either
Sills suggested something somewhat different than I. I simply suggested an entire 'Comic/Adventure pack' as an alternate leveling area that could be monetized.
You claim to have 'paid attention' in third grade, and if your comprehension is at this level I weep for the failed education system.
II realize his proposal was different to yours, however you supported it so I have addressed the points he made and you agreed with. You were never clear if your support meant players with superpowers couldn't enter the area, which Jonsils wants, which is why I have repeatedly asked for clarification. Who has failed to comprehend again?
It is you who needs to read. If you want Dark Champions then how could you not have those things with the ensuing issues? How could Cryptic not add all the things you requested without a major re-write? As to the tailor, if indeed you allowed all costume unlocks to be used, you would still get all the types of toon you didn't want in the game according to your OP.
It doesn't. I suggest, once more, you go back and re-read what I responded to Sills. If there is any confusion, please let me know.
There is, like I have asked repeatedly, would this new zone allow all types of concepts and powers to enter and if not what restrictions would there be? If you do agree with my suggestion as you now claim, why didn't you say so before and we could have avoided most of this 'debate'?
Finally, is it possible for you to actually answer my questions without grandstanding or being obtuse? Only then will this be of any practical value. However, if you want to continue flaming be my guest.
Next time, you may want to read everything before you jump into the middle of a discussion and throw baseless/half-informed claims around.
Please read my original post, you part quote and explain to me what is baseless or half-informed. In fact I was pointing out that the OP was wrong in his interpretation of Dark Champions as I, unlike him, have read and own the book. In fact he is half-informed not me.
The bits I skipped where to do with the Batman discussion, not relevant to my points at all. However, before replying since I have read and re-read the posts to try and understand what the OP wants, as it is unclear whether or not he will allow all types of powers and concepts enter the new zone.
Not "precious pal", just decent guy that I know him to be. I have read his posts, I have followed this thread closely since the begining. I like the idea of somehow tying Dark Champions to our favourite MMO here. I just feel that you're doing yourself a disservice with your alpha-male attempts to put him down.
I'm sorry, where I'm from we're allowed to defend our points, especially when those points are misunderstood and misinterpreted. That's not 'alpha male' attempt, that's normal behavior. He's obviously not read, and you shouldn't defend him. His posts will 'vanish' by morning, I'm sure.
Please continue with your thoughts on bringing Dark Champions into CO, I am interested in the idea.
I'd love to.
I have said it once before. I'll see if I can do it without someone braying like a lashed mule.
I'd like to see it as a 'comic/adventure pack'- but a significantly large one, perhaps maybe... 3 times as long as Resistance? Maybe more (been a while). Perhaps alongside it, a new archetype. Maybe even new powers. Costumes as well would be a given. It'd be a nice opportunity to work in staff fighting, perhaps even knives, or additional unarmed powers.
If not, I would rather see it as a standalone game. Not necessarily 'urban war', but a setting that embraced non-powered vigilantes. Now that it has been made abundantly clear (a long time ago) that some powers are allowed, a standalone game could tolerate more... 'low' powers.
And my favourite one, Justice Inc, which is a pulp styled system. Now that's one MMO I would like to see :-)
That's not really a setting I've had much experience with. A while back, I had one of the D10 system books- Abberrant, Trinity, and this one 'pulp' game (I forgot it, I never used it). One of my buddies owned a hobby shop, it closed down... he had a lot of crap to get rid of, especially used books.
Wrong, the semantics I referred to were you attempting to claim omitting is not the same as removing when in actual fact you mean removing not omitting.
Actually, at the time I had interpreted the setting as absent those powers. Had you read like you keep screaming you have done, you would see that. The short answer is 'my bad'.
Wrong, this was by your admission Jonsil's suggestion and he has repeated his desire to prevent capes entering the zone. You never made it clear if you intended to allow superpowers, magical, whimsical or crazytech toons to enter. As I have asked before and you still have failed to reply, if so how would this differ to my suggestion?
Quote me where I said that. Because I didn't say to restrict it to those characters.
I'd honestly be okay if it were a comic pack. Maybe a 'big comic pack' that could be monetized.
Don't want it? Don't buy it.
Some things could come with it, some things could be unlocked. Maybe a new Archetype? Some costume sets, weapon unlocks, titles....
Use it to debut a new Unarmed powerset similar to street justice (Probably the coolest power set in CoX, LOL), and maybe throw that Staff fighting set in.
I mean, of course 'any hero' could play it. It's not like 'dude that breathes fire' is any more dangerous than 'dude who uses guns' in CO's gameplay. I mean, you could for sure get your butt handed to you by some crazy criminals.
Now I'm inspired. CONTEST TIME!!!
There. I made it easy for you. I recommend reading the last part again. And before you reply? Re-read it. You're welcome.
I'd like to hear about my lousy reading comprehension again.
No, I'm not even quoting the rest. You don't deserve it. I've repeated myself too many times. If you want to delude yourself into thinking you've 'won', I'm fine with that. Hopefully it sends you away.
Remember, you came into this discussion thinking I was talking about an 'expansion'. Which shows you didn't really get what I was asking for. Which... yeah. Just... don't.
Please read my original post, you part quote and explain to me what is baseless or half-informed. In fact I was pointing out that the OP was wrong in his interpretation of Dark Champions as I, unlike him, have read and own the book. In fact he is half-informed not me.
The bits I skipped where to do with the Batman discussion, not relevant to my points at all. However, before replying since I have read and re-read the posts to try and understand what the OP wants, as it is unclear whether or not he will allow all types of powers and concepts enter the new zone.
I'm not going to re-read anything, I got it the first time. Your entire point is that you believe his interpretation of a campaign setting is wrong and that he wants to impose limitations on a bit of new content. Let me tell you why you're handling this poorly.
His view on the Dark Champions setting differs from yours. So what? You're getting preachy because he's interpreting it incorrectly; that he's not following what's in the book, and because you own the book you're more of an expert on the subject. So what? I own the book as well, and while some of his views don't follow the "word of god" they're still well within the scope of the setting. You're also ignoring that RPG books, especially ones that cover campaign settings, are wide open to interpretation. His interpretation of Dark Champions is just as valid as what the book offers and would be just as valid as any interpretations of the setting you could come up with.
You're also getting upset over how he wants to handle the new zone that would accompany this new setting. This is the crazy part. Who the hell cares? I could see why someone would be upset if this idea was actually being developed and had a good chance of getting released but it's not. It's crap* that never will exist in this MMO. Getting upset over someone, who isn't in a position to actually make it happen, wanting to impose limitations on an expansion to the game that will never reach final product stage is mind boggling.
It's time to take a step back and re-read your own posts.
*- not crap as in the "bad idea" sense, but in the royal sense; stuff
Please read my original post, you part quote and explain to me what is baseless or half-informed. In fact I was pointing out that the OP was wrong in his interpretation of Dark Champions as I, unlike him, have read and own the book. In fact he is half-informed not me.
The bits I skipped where to do with the Batman discussion, not relevant to my points at all. However, before replying since I have read and re-read the posts to try and understand what the OP wants, as it is unclear whether or not he will allow all types of powers and concepts enter the new zone.
Awesome gibberish here.
All kidding aside put the bottle down and have a nap.
Yeah. As grindy and dull as Lineage 2 could be, racial starter zones were nice touch. Same with WoW, really.
If this were tailored more towards a chosen 'character background', I'd like it. I was also disappointed that when talk first came out about CoX's 'Going Rogue' expansion, that when they said 'alternate character origins', that was just Praetoria. I was thinking that they'd finally decided to make Heroes, Villains, Rogues, and Vigilantes all have their own origin and starting leveling path.
I always thought that this gave your character a sense of 'identity' and made you feel like part of the setting, unlike CO/CoX's 'hey whatever you are, now you're here. Go fight stuff' attitude toward it.
It's just completely baffled me why this wasn't included, but nearly every other MMORPG has some kind of 'Starter area for X thing'.
And Lineage's slow and grindy didn't really make you flip until you got that 10% XP loss because of some troll red PK group that surrounded the town.
*- not crap as in the "bad idea" sense, but in the royal sense; stuff
Too late, got me buttmad.
Kidding.
The only thing you got wrong in that post is I originally proposed it as an entirely new game. I'm not sure that was clear. Sills suggested later it could be a 'restricted zone', sort of.... I expanded that idea as a 'monetized alternate Adventure pack with a new archetype and costumes' to accommodate the theme and stated any hero can play it.
I'm not going to re-read anything, I got it the first time. Your entire point is that you believe his interpretation of a campaign setting is wrong and that he wants to impose limitations on a bit of new content. Let me tell you why you're handling this poorly.
His view on the Dark Champions setting differs from yours. So what? You're getting preachy because he's interpreting it incorrectly; that he's not following what's in the book, and because you own the book you're more of an expert on the subject. So what? I own the book as well, and while some of his views don't follow the "word of god" they're still well within the scope of the setting. You're also ignoring that RPG books, especially ones that cover campaign settings, are wide open to interpretation. His interpretation of Dark Champions is just as valid as what the book offers and would be just as valid as any interpretations of the setting you could come up with.
You're also getting upset over how he wants to handle the new zone that would accompany this new setting. This is the crazy part. Who the hell cares? I could see why someone would be upset if this idea was actually being developed and had a good chance of getting released but it's not. It's crap* that never will exist in this MMO. Getting upset over someone, who isn't in a position to actually make it happen, wanting to impose limitations on an expansion to the game that will never reach final product stage is mind boggling.
It's time to take a step back and re-read your own posts.
*- not crap as in the "bad idea" sense, but in the royal sense; stuff
See your assumption is I am upset, I am not. In fact it seems to have upset you more than me. I was merely stating the reasons why his original concept wouldn't work just because it was Dark Champions and the flaws in his concept. Even if we limit Dark Champions to what he originally suggested, he would still get players who would do whimsical, magical and crazytech concepts, unless the restrictions were so draconian that very few players, as highlighted in this thread, would play it. I have yet to understand how his ideas would prevent the roleplaying he dislikes.
So.. I'll just throw that in. Why is OP playing Champions ? There are plenty of games out there that allow you to fight the crime with guns and bows.. Why choose the one MMO in which guns and bows are a microscopic part of character customization ? And why spam forums with guns/knives/military stuff requests ? This is Champions Online, a colorful world where all kinds of heroes fight the crime happily. Not Medal of Honnor.
There. I made it easy for you. I recommend reading the last part again. And before you reply? Re-read it. You're welcome.
See this is the problem I have tried to get you to clarify repeatedly. Your response was not clear. Even Jonsil had to reiterate his point as he too thought you misunderstood him. If by any hero you literally mean any superhero, regardless of powers or concept, then this is a complete turnaround from your initial idea. Would it have been so hard to admit to this earlier? Or even to say in the response to Jonsil that despite your earlier recommendations against the use of all powers and concepts, you had now changed your mind? This whole debacle could then have been avoided.
To clarify:
1. In your OP you desired a no superpowers game, that was based on Dark Champions
2. You reiterated this repeatedly and argued aggressively with those who disagreed.
3. You later agreed with Jonsil that an expansion might be a good alternative to a new game
4. You failed to clearly say whether or not you agreed with Jonsil completely, including the no superpowers environment you first suggested.
5. You didn't bother to answer my repeated question as to whether or not you had undergone a complete turnaround regarding superpowers, magical, crazytech and whimsical characters being admissible in the expansion.
Remember, you came into this discussion thinking I was talking about an 'expansion'. Which shows you didn't really get what I was asking for. Which... yeah. Just... don't.
WTF, in the post immediately before my first one you were agreeing with Jonsil's idea of an expansion. You even quoted yourself above replying to him. You then referred to it as a 'comic book', which is just a term used by Cryptic to describe an expansion of a certain size. So yes you were talking about an expansion. In any case, my first posts comments on the expansion were in response to Johnsil's post.
See your assumption is I am upset, I am not. In fact it seems to have upset you more than me. I was merely stating the reasons why his original concept wouldn't work just because it was Dark Champions and the flaws in his concept. Even if we limit Dark Champions to what he originally suggested, he would still get players who would do whimsical, magical and crazytech concepts, unless the restrictions were so draconian that very few players, as highlighted in this thread, would play it. I have yet to understand how his ideas would prevent the roleplaying he dislikes.
A "no u" statement. Classy. Since we're being classy, here's my "no u" statement: I made no assumptions. His idea clearly ruffled your feathers enough to warrant resorting to pedantry in order to shoot it down. You also attacked the original idea when the brainstorming had shifted towards something more open, amicable and concept friendly in the post that took place right before your first entry. This is why you were told more than once to re-read everything. inb4 the new idea doesn't meet your standards and is also "wrong"
A "no u" statement. Classy. Since we're being classy, here's my "no u" statement: I made no assumptions. His idea clearly ruffled your feathers enough to warrant resorting to pedantry in order to shoot it down. You also attacked the original idea when the brainstorming had shifted towards something more open, amicable and concept friendly in the post that took place right before your first entry. This is why you were told more than once to re-read everything. inb4 the new idea doesn't meet your standards and is also "wrong"
You made no assumptions? Really? Please supply the proof that I felt the way you claim. My original post was merely a clarification of the Dark Champions Universe, which others have also agreed with and my reasons against the proposed concept of a non superhero environment. When I started that post, his answer to Jonsil had yet to be posted, thus my reply was to Jonsils expansion proposition and the OPs view of Dark Champions. Later I did read and reread the reply he made to Jonsil, but as I have said his response was ambiguous and in complete contradiction to what he had been reiterating for several pages before and in fact was not what Jonsil had suggested, which is why he clarifed it further as he too assumed he had been misunderstood by the OP.
Finally, I would hardly call the Ops responses friendly, by his own admission he has behaved like a jerk and has replied aggressively to more than one person and not just me. Remember it was him who first resorted to personal insults, not I.
PS: If by the new idea you mean an expansion that allows all superheroes of all concepts and powers to enter, you would be wrong as I suggested similar. What was it you said about reading?
It's been a while, but I remember in Lineage 2 and WoW, starting in my own 'race' area. I kind of thought that was a common thing.
Not that much better than what we have, though. In WoW, whether you're a human paladin, a human rogue, a human warlock, or a human priest, you start off hunting wolf butts and beating up kobolds for the high crime of mining too close to town. You also face exactly the same starting quests whether you're a dwarven ranger, slinging a blunderbuss, or a gnome rogue, sneaking through the shadows (as best you can through waist-deep snow).
On the third hand (Grond has four of 'em, you know), perhaps that can be combined with the Dark Champs idea - a separate starting zone for low-powered heroes, at the end of which they can be dumped out into the rest of the world to prove that under the right circumstances, the Dark Sneak can be at least as effective as Captain Superpants...
(Oh, and referring back a bit further - dibs on Grizzly McMurderguns!)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
True. If it ever happened though, I would hope it would be one of those things Cryptic puts it's foot down and doesn't budge on.
Well, there's precedent - in STO, no matter how big a fit I throw, my Starfleet LCDR will never walk the streets of First City on Qo'noS, and even my Starfleet Vice Admiral and KDF Lt. General will never visit Republic Command on Mol'Rihan, no matter how high they get their Diplomacy or Marauding ratings.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Not that much better than what we have, though. In WoW, whether you're a human paladin, a human rogue, a human warlock, or a human priest, you start off hunting wolf butts and beating up kobolds for the high crime of mining too close to town. You also face exactly the same starting quests whether you're a dwarven ranger, slinging a blunderbuss, or a gnome rogue, sneaking through the shadows (as best you can through waist-deep snow).
That's because they're species-related, not class-related.
But the same game also has few (albeit literally few) class-related quests. Mostly completely redundant and outdated ones, but they are there.
So, yes. It is much better than complete lack of any origin references in CO, or frankly, other low budget grade MMO titles.
But I feel that folks who play Champs would freak out that there was content that their main toon (or maybe their only toon) could not access.
Yes, CO population can whine for the most idiotic reason. God forbid they had to roll an alt to play specific content, or CO had some diversity.
In Lineage 2 nearly all quests were class-specific. And that was the game where quests were scarce, a typical Asian grinder. But nobody whined that he can't play Gladiator's quests with his Paladin. Or that some early racial-specific quests are not accessible. If he wanted, he rolled a Paladin. It was adding to replayability.
No superpowers. No magic. Something about that irked me at first... then made me smile.
Then I realized.. I wanted a 'Dark Champions' made like CO. Same engine. Different setting. Same customizable character options.
Gone would be the silliness. Gone would be the mysticism that permeates the game. Gone would be the impossible supertech.
Even better? Imagine what it would do to roleplayers. Gone would be the 'magic wins'. Gone would be 'my tech is more advanced than yours'. Gone would be the 'I am a dark overlord from Hell'. Gone would be any delusions of black and white morality.
Imagine our 'power sets'- no magic, no super powers, no crazy tech. Guns. Bows. Martial arts. Melee weapons. Imagine if we took those categories and expanded them.
A power set that revolves around SMG's. A martial art similar to Krav Maga. Escrima stick-type melee combat. All of those power sets would be broadened greatly.
Would you play this... or are you too scared to bleed and die?
I would play it in a heartbeat.
All I see from the above quotes is this: " Make things the way I want them to be. Make it my way. I am selfish and don't care about what anyone else wants. I just want it my way and if nobody else likes it my way they don't have to play...Me, me, me."
If they made it I would play it. Because I am a fan of the Champions Universe. If you made it with I would never even consider playing it. If you want to remove all the silliness of Champions Online why are you even here? You want all the "super" powers removed, and all the "normal human" powers expanded. They do not have a team to develop all this stuff you want. Cryptic can't throw money at something like this. So suck it up and live with what we have. I am tired of people telling Cryptic what they're doing wrong.
If you want to remove all the silliness of Champions Online why are you even here? (...) I am tired of people telling Cryptic what they're doing wrong.
Oh, shut up... You'd be surprised how many people stays here only because for the time being there is no better alternative for a superheroic MMO. With CoH/CO level of customisation.
Yes, CO is in a very fortunate place when there is no competition, not even in making (I do not count post CoH/V pipe dreams) and that's the only thing that keeps part of the population here. It may not be as fortunate if it will ever change. Then "if don't like something in CO - get out!" crazed fanboi attitude may kick brutally, when CO will start losing players again, to the point whet it will be simply shut down.
Also, Cryptic did not made a very stellar job at presenting Champions Universe. I think CO is amongst the weakest adaptations of books and whatnot into video games.
All I see from the above quotes is this: " Make things the way I want them to be. Make it my way. I am selfish and don't care about what anyone else wants. I just want it my way and if nobody else likes it my way they don't have to play...Me, me, me."
Pretty much this; Cyber is very big on trying to tailor this game to his liking. At this point he's become the next Gamehobo/Jaybezz.
Pretty much this; Cyber is very big on trying to tailor this game to his liking. At this point he's become the next Gamehobo/Jaybezz.
Do you mean "I'm very big on adding my own ideas?" I'm sorry you have nothing to contribute and see this as a threat. If you see this as 'trying to tailor the game to my liking', then you give me too much credit.
Or you don't know what 'suggestions' are, and may have missed that part of the forum.
All I see from the above quotes is this: " Make things the way I want them to be. Make it my way. I am selfish and don't care about what anyone else wants. I just want it my way and if nobody else likes it my way they don't have to play...Me, me, me."
Or "What do you think of this idea?"
All I'm hearing from you is "I'm a manchild that can't tolerate someone having an idea I don't like, so I'm going to throw a tantrum."
If they made it I would play it. Because I am a fan of the Champions Universe. If you made it with I would never even consider playing it. If you want to remove all the silliness of Champions Online why are you even here? You want all the "super" powers removed, and all the "normal human" powers expanded. They do not have a team to develop all this stuff you want. Cryptic can't throw money at something like this. So suck it up and live with what we have. I am tired of people telling Cryptic what they're doing wrong.
And I'm sick of manchildren throwing tantrums in my thread. You're doing it wrong.
So.. I'll just throw that in. Why is OP playing Champions ? There are plenty of games out there that allow you to fight the crime with guns and bows.. Why choose the one MMO in which guns and bows are a microscopic part of character customization ? And why spam forums with guns/knives/military stuff requests ? This is Champions Online, a colorful world where all kinds of heroes fight the crime happily. Not Medal of Honnor.
You're right, it's not like this is the game where I can 'be the hero I want to be', right? It's not like a military themed hero has a movie in theaters right now.
You have not read what I requested. Not ONCE did I request a military-themed game.
You are asking why I play it? I requested something different, not a change to this game.
I personally could say the same thing, 'this isn't Dungeons and Dragons' or 'This isn't Animu Hero'. Yet there seems to be no shortage of children bawling for both of these.
This community is HILARIOUS. If an idea doesn't completely cater to their tastes, they fly off like they've been deprived. I'd rather eat broken glass than work for Cryptic and attempt to appease some of these people.
This is pathetic. I'm okay with not liking ideas, but some of you need psychological help.
And I'm well aware of the tactic. "Look, something we don't like! Let's throw tantrums and start a flame war and make chaos so the thread gets shut down!" This is why most of the community actually hates the forums.
Comments
Thank you shieldtower. I hate you so much but the booty game ridiculous.
Like I said, I get it if this 'wouldn't be your thing'. I wouldn't even completely bail on CO for it (it would honestly take a pretty wild game to get me to leave my Roleplaying friends behind).
However, I think that Cryptic would do well to tap into his absurd amount of source material. I hate how even a setting I dislike for its cheesiness (Champions) can be reduced to this level of generic-ness. After skimming across the web, I've seen some pretty interesting-looking genre and sub-genre books.
Holy crap, there's even a 'Fantasy' hero system games. And a sci-fi one. Does Cryptic own 'Champions' or like, all of the interchangeable IP's associated with it?
Edit- addition.
I've always wondered why there is no 'origin' map in CO (or CoX). Granted, I know the game is limited in space...
But it's just kind of... I don't really know. Johnny Hellfire the Devil-Wizard starts off the same way as Captain Thunderbutt and Gritty McMurdergun. Was 'origin zone' not a thought? I mean, it's fairly common in other MMORPG's.
This is one thing that always bothered me. Games tend to handwave this by dropping you in the middle of a catastrophe but it would be nice if the game recognized what kind of character your character is. If you are a Batman-type character, quests and so forth should reflect this. A superman-type character would be different as well. A mean to further mix it with the lore of the series would have been perfect. So if a character has a history with VIPER, the game would reflect it, either through dialogue, quests involving them that you can't get with a different origin, or even surprise attacks from them or something. Neverwinter has something like this although it's just a small handful of quests more than an actual quest chain or something.
It's been a while, but I remember in Lineage 2 and WoW, starting in my own 'race' area. I kind of thought that was a common thing.
Yeah some of the older ones did that. LOTR did that too if I remember correctly. DCUO attempts to do that (not very well) and tries to change things up quest-wise based on who your mentor is but it all falls apart rather quickly in that sense. The whole "disaster zone" common starting point is kind of annoying.
Not "precious pal", just decent guy that I know him to be. I have read his posts, I have followed this thread closely since the begining. I like the idea of somehow tying Dark Champions to our favourite MMO here. I just feel that you're doing yourself a disservice with your alpha-male attempts to put him down.
This comment could be so easily applied to your responses to his comments.
I wasn't gonna reply back, but you called me out by implying that I hadn't fully read the thread. Not so.
Please continue with your thoughts on bringing Dark Champions into CO, I am interested in the idea.
And my favourite one, Justice Inc, which is a pulp styled system. Now that's one MMO I would like to see :-)
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Wrong, the semantics I referred to were you attempting to claim omitting is not the same as removing when in actual fact you mean removing not omitting.
Wrong, Dark Champions has all the things you don't want, so you would have to remove them to satisfy your needs.
Wrong, this was by your admission Jonsil's suggestion and he has repeated his desire to prevent capes entering the zone. You never made it clear if you intended to allow superpowers, magical, whimsical or crazytech toons to enter. As I have asked before and you still have failed to reply, if so how would this differ to my suggestion?
Stop contradicting yourself then.
Misquoting much? Suggesting people are not allowed to play a type of toon they have paid for in this game will cause people to be inflamed. Since my opinion has clearly offended you, by your definition you are not well adjusted either
II realize his proposal was different to yours, however you supported it so I have addressed the points he made and you agreed with. You were never clear if your support meant players with superpowers couldn't enter the area, which Jonsils wants, which is why I have repeatedly asked for clarification. Who has failed to comprehend again?
It is you who needs to read. If you want Dark Champions then how could you not have those things with the ensuing issues? How could Cryptic not add all the things you requested without a major re-write? As to the tailor, if indeed you allowed all costume unlocks to be used, you would still get all the types of toon you didn't want in the game according to your OP.
There is, like I have asked repeatedly, would this new zone allow all types of concepts and powers to enter and if not what restrictions would there be? If you do agree with my suggestion as you now claim, why didn't you say so before and we could have avoided most of this 'debate'?
Finally, is it possible for you to actually answer my questions without grandstanding or being obtuse? Only then will this be of any practical value. However, if you want to continue flaming be my guest.
Please read my original post, you part quote and explain to me what is baseless or half-informed. In fact I was pointing out that the OP was wrong in his interpretation of Dark Champions as I, unlike him, have read and own the book. In fact he is half-informed not me.
The bits I skipped where to do with the Batman discussion, not relevant to my points at all. However, before replying since I have read and re-read the posts to try and understand what the OP wants, as it is unclear whether or not he will allow all types of powers and concepts enter the new zone.
I'm sorry, where I'm from we're allowed to defend our points, especially when those points are misunderstood and misinterpreted. That's not 'alpha male' attempt, that's normal behavior. He's obviously not read, and you shouldn't defend him. His posts will 'vanish' by morning, I'm sure.
I'd love to.
I have said it once before. I'll see if I can do it without someone braying like a lashed mule.
I'd like to see it as a 'comic/adventure pack'- but a significantly large one, perhaps maybe... 3 times as long as Resistance? Maybe more (been a while). Perhaps alongside it, a new archetype. Maybe even new powers. Costumes as well would be a given. It'd be a nice opportunity to work in staff fighting, perhaps even knives, or additional unarmed powers.
If not, I would rather see it as a standalone game. Not necessarily 'urban war', but a setting that embraced non-powered vigilantes. Now that it has been made abundantly clear (a long time ago) that some powers are allowed, a standalone game could tolerate more... 'low' powers.
That's not really a setting I've had much experience with. A while back, I had one of the D10 system books- Abberrant, Trinity, and this one 'pulp' game (I forgot it, I never used it). One of my buddies owned a hobby shop, it closed down... he had a lot of crap to get rid of, especially used books.
Actually, at the time I had interpreted the setting as absent those powers. Had you read like you keep screaming you have done, you would see that. The short answer is 'my bad'.
Not 'my needs', 'my idea'. What was that inflammatory thing again?
Quote me where I said that. Because I didn't say to restrict it to those characters.
There. I made it easy for you. I recommend reading the last part again. And before you reply? Re-read it. You're welcome.
I'd like to hear about my lousy reading comprehension again.
No, I'm not even quoting the rest. You don't deserve it. I've repeated myself too many times. If you want to delude yourself into thinking you've 'won', I'm fine with that. Hopefully it sends you away.
Remember, you came into this discussion thinking I was talking about an 'expansion'. Which shows you didn't really get what I was asking for. Which... yeah. Just... don't.
I'm not going to re-read anything, I got it the first time. Your entire point is that you believe his interpretation of a campaign setting is wrong and that he wants to impose limitations on a bit of new content. Let me tell you why you're handling this poorly.
His view on the Dark Champions setting differs from yours. So what? You're getting preachy because he's interpreting it incorrectly; that he's not following what's in the book, and because you own the book you're more of an expert on the subject. So what? I own the book as well, and while some of his views don't follow the "word of god" they're still well within the scope of the setting. You're also ignoring that RPG books, especially ones that cover campaign settings, are wide open to interpretation. His interpretation of Dark Champions is just as valid as what the book offers and would be just as valid as any interpretations of the setting you could come up with.
You're also getting upset over how he wants to handle the new zone that would accompany this new setting. This is the crazy part. Who the hell cares? I could see why someone would be upset if this idea was actually being developed and had a good chance of getting released but it's not. It's crap* that never will exist in this MMO. Getting upset over someone, who isn't in a position to actually make it happen, wanting to impose limitations on an expansion to the game that will never reach final product stage is mind boggling.
It's time to take a step back and re-read your own posts.
*- not crap as in the "bad idea" sense, but in the royal sense; stuff
Awesome gibberish here.
All kidding aside put the bottle down and have a nap.
If this were tailored more towards a chosen 'character background', I'd like it. I was also disappointed that when talk first came out about CoX's 'Going Rogue' expansion, that when they said 'alternate character origins', that was just Praetoria. I was thinking that they'd finally decided to make Heroes, Villains, Rogues, and Vigilantes all have their own origin and starting leveling path.
I always thought that this gave your character a sense of 'identity' and made you feel like part of the setting, unlike CO/CoX's 'hey whatever you are, now you're here. Go fight stuff' attitude toward it.
It's just completely baffled me why this wasn't included, but nearly every other MMORPG has some kind of 'Starter area for X thing'.
And Lineage's slow and grindy didn't really make you flip until you got that 10% XP loss because of some troll red PK group that surrounded the town.
Too late, got me buttmad.
Kidding.
The only thing you got wrong in that post is I originally proposed it as an entirely new game. I'm not sure that was clear. Sills suggested later it could be a 'restricted zone', sort of.... I expanded that idea as a 'monetized alternate Adventure pack with a new archetype and costumes' to accommodate the theme and stated any hero can play it.
See your assumption is I am upset, I am not. In fact it seems to have upset you more than me. I was merely stating the reasons why his original concept wouldn't work just because it was Dark Champions and the flaws in his concept. Even if we limit Dark Champions to what he originally suggested, he would still get players who would do whimsical, magical and crazytech concepts, unless the restrictions were so draconian that very few players, as highlighted in this thread, would play it. I have yet to understand how his ideas would prevent the roleplaying he dislikes.
(°∇° ) #megalodon2015
See this is the problem I have tried to get you to clarify repeatedly. Your response was not clear. Even Jonsil had to reiterate his point as he too thought you misunderstood him. If by any hero you literally mean any superhero, regardless of powers or concept, then this is a complete turnaround from your initial idea. Would it have been so hard to admit to this earlier? Or even to say in the response to Jonsil that despite your earlier recommendations against the use of all powers and concepts, you had now changed your mind? This whole debacle could then have been avoided.
To clarify:
1. In your OP you desired a no superpowers game, that was based on Dark Champions
2. You reiterated this repeatedly and argued aggressively with those who disagreed.
3. You later agreed with Jonsil that an expansion might be a good alternative to a new game
4. You failed to clearly say whether or not you agreed with Jonsil completely, including the no superpowers environment you first suggested.
5. You didn't bother to answer my repeated question as to whether or not you had undergone a complete turnaround regarding superpowers, magical, crazytech and whimsical characters being admissible in the expansion.
WTF, in the post immediately before my first one you were agreeing with Jonsil's idea of an expansion. You even quoted yourself above replying to him. You then referred to it as a 'comic book', which is just a term used by Cryptic to describe an expansion of a certain size. So yes you were talking about an expansion. In any case, my first posts comments on the expansion were in response to Johnsil's post.
A "no u" statement. Classy. Since we're being classy, here's my "no u" statement: I made no assumptions. His idea clearly ruffled your feathers enough to warrant resorting to pedantry in order to shoot it down. You also attacked the original idea when the brainstorming had shifted towards something more open, amicable and concept friendly in the post that took place right before your first entry. This is why you were told more than once to re-read everything.
inb4 the new idea doesn't meet your standards and is also "wrong"
You made no assumptions? Really? Please supply the proof that I felt the way you claim. My original post was merely a clarification of the Dark Champions Universe, which others have also agreed with and my reasons against the proposed concept of a non superhero environment. When I started that post, his answer to Jonsil had yet to be posted, thus my reply was to Jonsils expansion proposition and the OPs view of Dark Champions. Later I did read and reread the reply he made to Jonsil, but as I have said his response was ambiguous and in complete contradiction to what he had been reiterating for several pages before and in fact was not what Jonsil had suggested, which is why he clarifed it further as he too assumed he had been misunderstood by the OP.
Finally, I would hardly call the Ops responses friendly, by his own admission he has behaved like a jerk and has replied aggressively to more than one person and not just me. Remember it was him who first resorted to personal insults, not I.
PS: If by the new idea you mean an expansion that allows all superheroes of all concepts and powers to enter, you would be wrong as I suggested similar. What was it you said about reading?
On the third hand (Grond has four of 'em, you know), perhaps that can be combined with the Dark Champs idea - a separate starting zone for low-powered heroes, at the end of which they can be dumped out into the rest of the world to prove that under the right circumstances, the Dark Sneak can be at least as effective as Captain Superpants...
(Oh, and referring back a bit further - dibs on Grizzly McMurderguns!)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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But I feel that folks who play Champs would freak out that there was content that their main toon (or maybe their only toon) could not access.
*shrug*
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
True. If it ever happened though, I would hope it would be one of those things Cryptic puts it's foot down and doesn't budge on.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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That's because they're species-related, not class-related.
But the same game also has few (albeit literally few) class-related quests. Mostly completely redundant and outdated ones, but they are there.
So, yes. It is much better than complete lack of any origin references in CO, or frankly, other low budget grade MMO titles.
Yes, CO population can whine for the most idiotic reason. God forbid they had to roll an alt to play specific content, or CO had some diversity.
In Lineage 2 nearly all quests were class-specific. And that was the game where quests were scarce, a typical Asian grinder. But nobody whined that he can't play Gladiator's quests with his Paladin. Or that some early racial-specific quests are not accessible. If he wanted, he rolled a Paladin. It was adding to replayability.
All I see from the above quotes is this: " Make things the way I want them to be. Make it my way. I am selfish and don't care about what anyone else wants. I just want it my way and if nobody else likes it my way they don't have to play...Me, me, me."
If they made it I would play it. Because I am a fan of the Champions Universe. If you made it with I would never even consider playing it. If you want to remove all the silliness of Champions Online why are you even here? You want all the "super" powers removed, and all the "normal human" powers expanded. They do not have a team to develop all this stuff you want. Cryptic can't throw money at something like this. So suck it up and live with what we have. I am tired of people telling Cryptic what they're doing wrong.
Oh, shut up... You'd be surprised how many people stays here only because for the time being there is no better alternative for a superheroic MMO. With CoH/CO level of customisation.
Yes, CO is in a very fortunate place when there is no competition, not even in making (I do not count post CoH/V pipe dreams) and that's the only thing that keeps part of the population here. It may not be as fortunate if it will ever change. Then "if don't like something in CO - get out!" crazed fanboi attitude may kick brutally, when CO will start losing players again, to the point whet it will be simply shut down.
Also, Cryptic did not made a very stellar job at presenting Champions Universe. I think CO is amongst the weakest adaptations of books and whatnot into video games.
Stop fanboying.
And this is why I never post often on boards.
Whatever. I'm out of this thread.
Pretty much this; Cyber is very big on trying to tailor this game to his liking. At this point he's become the next Gamehobo/Jaybezz.
Do you mean "I'm very big on adding my own ideas?" I'm sorry you have nothing to contribute and see this as a threat. If you see this as 'trying to tailor the game to my liking', then you give me too much credit.
Or you don't know what 'suggestions' are, and may have missed that part of the forum.
Or "What do you think of this idea?"
All I'm hearing from you is "I'm a manchild that can't tolerate someone having an idea I don't like, so I'm going to throw a tantrum."
And I'm sick of manchildren throwing tantrums in my thread. You're doing it wrong.
You're right, it's not like this is the game where I can 'be the hero I want to be', right? It's not like a military themed hero has a movie in theaters right now.
You have not read what I requested. Not ONCE did I request a military-themed game.
You are asking why I play it? I requested something different, not a change to this game.
I personally could say the same thing, 'this isn't Dungeons and Dragons' or 'This isn't Animu Hero'. Yet there seems to be no shortage of children bawling for both of these.
This community is HILARIOUS. If an idea doesn't completely cater to their tastes, they fly off like they've been deprived. I'd rather eat broken glass than work for Cryptic and attempt to appease some of these people.
This is pathetic. I'm okay with not liking ideas, but some of you need psychological help.
And I'm well aware of the tactic. "Look, something we don't like! Let's throw tantrums and start a flame war and make chaos so the thread gets shut down!" This is why most of the community actually hates the forums.