I have no interest in playing a non-super powered version of the game.
I would not have even tried out Champions if it didn't have superpowers based on sci-fi science, mutations, magic, and so forth.
No thanks.
That's exactly my thoughts with it. If I had the choice, I'd take being able to punch dudes into the horizon or zap a bunch of guys into submission as opposed to nothing but guns and knives.
1- I'll take Harbinger as the signature character over Foxbat.
2- If all you see in a non-powered hero setting is 'nothing but guns and knives', you're an unimaginative person.
3- Go start reading Batman and Daredevil, pls.
I get why this wouldn't appeal to some peoples' interest. However, I do think that with the Cryptic engine (and better writers) it could be a good game. It could be a great setting.
However, if you cheapen something like this in your mind by writing it off as 'just a bunch of guns and knives', I return the challenge to you and say 'if your idea of character is being powerful, then you aren't a character- you're an avatar'. I mean, from a roleplaying standpoint, at least.
Edit:
But also, I think the fact that it wouldn't try to appeal to everyone could be its strength. I mean, CO can have all the caped heroes, demons, furries, and crazy tech toons (I'd not bail on CO), Dark Champions could appeal to those who do want something different entirely.
But also, I think the fact that it wouldn't try to appeal to everyone could be its strength. I mean, CO can have all the caped heroes, demons, furries, and crazy tech toons (I'd not bail on CO), Dark Champions could appeal to those who do want something different entirely.
The problem I'm seeing here is that Dark Champions setting is far too niche. The superhero setting when it comes to MMORPGs is already considered a pretty niche in the first place.
The thing with CO is that the game services a broad range of superhero concepts. The expansive number of costume options allows for the player to create a superhero look that fits into the well known concepts defined by superhero pop-culture, including the dark / anti-hero types like Punisher and Batman.
I can see a Dark Champions MMO if it ever existed to really only cater to people who find the dark / anti-hero concept appealling, and I think that's far too limiting for anyone who wishes to create a superhero not fitting those concepts, especially considering that a Dark Champions MMO would remain a superhero game at its core, and a newer one than CO at that. I'm sure that people who love the superhero setting would be jumping on the bandwagon to try out that shiny new superhero MMO for sure, regardless of whether or not they like the setting in the first place.
I certainly would enjoy a superhero game with a dark, noir-like atmosphere and setting, but personally if I wanted to bring a cheery, idealistic superhero who is everything opposite of what heroes in Dark Champions represent to such a game environment, it's just going to feel silly to me. I can create any sort of hero, be it "light" or "dark" in concept currently in CO without having to be bothered by that.
The problem I'm seeing here is that Dark Champions setting is far too niche. The superhero setting when it comes to MMORPGs is already considered a pretty niche in the first place.
^This.
I may like Daredevil or the Punisher, but they aren't only characters liked by me. I'm not sure if I'd ever invest in a game limiting me only to characters of this type. Very likely I'd be bored after making one character and as soon as I'm burned with this only one, I'd be done with the game.
Dark Champions idea seems to be more suited for a shooter, or singel player crpg, if anyone wanted to made a game out of it.
Best option would be a superhero mmo where all your available quests are dependent from your origin, kind of powers and morality. So player is sent into different zones and does different quests depends if he's non-powered vigilante, or the cape. And the only way to have quests of different power and origin is to share quest with other players.
PS.: Harbringer of Justice isn't the best character. Using something that overpowered as a poster character for setting of this kind is bad idea.
It really doesn't matter if he's writer's former player character and was developed that way during roleplaying him. Readers who see him for the first time don't know this, don't know his context, the only thing they see is something that fits Champions, but not Dark Champions, and this character should be either cut down, or not used at all.
Not really. Nope. There's plenty of darkgrittygunsandkickgames in the world allready. (And you get 998 Negative Internet Points for pulling out the Batman Card)
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
If that's how you see a possible non-powered crime-fighting game turning out, then you've obviously never read any good comics, ever. I realize you have your own thing you like, but I'll take Dark Champions as a 'Comic Book Game' over CO's parody/blatant mockery of Comics.
There's a reason Batman's Rogues Gallery is so popular. Batman himself is carrying an absurd amount of popularity and contrary to what some believe, it isn't because he's Dark and Broody. The fans of these comics aren't self-cutting emo kids that get off on death.
It's probably because non-powered characters like him often have to have actual skill and intelligence to defeat their foes instead of flying at them with their fists out.
The non-powered hero setting could be wealthy with interesting characters, stories, and themes. While some people are more 'comfortable' in the 'Sunny Day Hero' concept, it gets tiresome. This sort of serial died for a reason, and it was because people grew up.
I personally would love to see this become a reality, because it would require people to actually put thought into characters and developers would have to put thought into the actual writing.
Underage boy sidekick!
hmmm. Disagree.
1. Batman has like, maybe 3 recognizable villains in popular culture (Penguin, Joker, Catwoman).. hardly an entire rogues gallery of popular characters... To a lesser degree The Riddler and Two Face, I guess. But only because of the older Batman movies.To the comic savant like us, this is obviously not the case and we know of his awesome expanded rogues gallery. But I do not think they are generally known about by the "wider audience".
2. a significant portion (if not most) of his villains DO have super powers..
Killer Croc, Bane, blockbuster, Catwoman, Clayface, Killer Moth, Man-Bat, Poison Ivy, Solomun Grundy, Deathstroke, not to mention pretty much the entire league of assassins... That's really just the tip of the iceberg.
3. The Batman villains that don't have super powers are mostly trite and boring. They're either assassins or serial killers.
Let's see... Hush, Firefly, Deadshot, Calendar Man, Victro Szasz, et all.
And Batman is interesting BECAUSE he is a powerless hero that exists within a universe filled with demi-god like superheroes/villains. Take away the super powers and you've got Watchmen Online. No thanks. The superhero genre is predicated on super powers save for a few exceptions that have been successful (of which Dark Champions isn't one).
I agree with you on the idea that a dark and gritty setting is more enjoyable than a campy 60's comic setting. I just believe there is room in a dark and gritty world for superheroes with powers. I mean, Batman and Sueprman do share a universe, after all.
...I may like Daredevil or the Punisher, but they aren't only characters liked by me. I'm not sure if I'd ever invest in a game limiting me only to characters of this type. Very likely I'd be bored after making one character and as soon as I'm burned with this only one, I'd be done with the game.
Dark Champions idea seems to be more suited for a shooter, or singel player crpg, if anyone wanted to made a game out of it...
This sums up my experience in The Secret World.
Granted, you are only given 3 character slots and the skills/abilities mechanics don't encourage alts, but neither do the setting and content. I have one main and 2 barely developed alts. I only created the alts to confirm the lack of difference between the factions (flavor text mostly).
Honestly, I enjoyed TSW initially, but it got old. When the setting screams single player adventure game (read investigation, exploration) and the mechanics scream single player adventure game, I have to wonder what drives/forces developers in this industry to make a MMO out of it (I'm looking at you NWO : )
Bringing this back to a Dark Champions game, one thing that bugged me (and others) in TSW was that the first 3 zones were from, geographically, the same area. So, naturally, they looked and felt the same. I could see this as an issue with a Dark Champions game, if it were an MMO. Could you really sell 6-8 zones of only Hudson City, even if you included the Highlands? As a single player game? Yes. As an MMO? I have my doubts.
So, anyway, I guess my answer to the thread title would be in two parts. Would I play the Dark Champions IP as a single player stand alone adventure game? Yes, definitely. Would I play Dark Champions as an MMO? No, or at least not very long, not from my experience with TSW.
1. Batman has like, maybe 3 recognizable villains in popular culture (Penguin, Joker, Catwoman).. hardly an entire rogues gallery of popular characters... To a lesser degree The Riddler and Two Face, I guess. But only because of the older Batman movies.To the comic savant like us, this is obviously not the case and we know of his awesome expanded rogues gallery. But I do not think they are generally known about by the "wider audience".
2. a significant portion (if not most) of his villains DO have super powers..
Killer Croc, Bane, blockbuster, Catwoman, Clayface, Killer Moth, Man-Bat, Poison Ivy, Solomun Grundy, Deathstroke, not to mention pretty much the entire league of assassins... That's really just the tip of the iceberg.
3. The Batman villains that don't have super powers are mostly trite and boring. They're either assassins or serial killers.
Let's see... Hush, Firefly, Deadshot, Calendar Man, Victro Szasz, et all.
And Batman is interesting BECAUSE he is a powerless hero that exists within a universe filled with demi-god like superheroes/villains. Take away the super powers and you've got Watchmen Online. No thanks. The superhero genre is predicated on super powers save for a few exceptions that have been successful (of which Dark Champions isn't one).
I agree with you on the idea that a dark and gritty setting is more enjoyable than a campy 60's comic setting. I just believe there is room in a dark and gritty world for superheroes with powers. I mean, Batman and Sueprman do share a universe, after all.
2. a significant portion (if not most) of his villains DO have super powers..
Killer Croc, Bane, blockbuster, Catwoman, Clayface, Killer Moth, Man-Bat, Poison Ivy, Solomun Grundy, Deathstroke, not to mention pretty much the entire league of assassins... That's really just the tip of the iceberg.
Deathstroke is not originally a Batman villain. He is a Teen Titans villain. Kthx.
And like it was said before, Catwoman has no powers. Bad movies are not a source of comics information.
3. The Batman villains that don't have super powers are mostly trite and boring. They're either assassins or serial killers.
Let's see... Hush, Firefly, Deadshot, Calendar Man, Victro Szasz, et all.
And Joker. Anarky. Harley Quinn. Black Mask. David Kain. I mean, there's an entire list. But if the video games and animated series is all you know, then sure. Of course.
And Batman is interesting BECAUSE he is a powerless hero that exists within a universe filled with demi-god like superheroes/villains. Take away the super powers and you've got Watchmen Online. No thanks. The superhero genre is predicated on super powers save for a few exceptions that have been successful (of which Dark Champions isn't one).
Actually, Batman is interesting for a ton of other reasons. If this is your reason, then have fun using the Justice League Animated series as your source.
And Watchmen wasn't massively successful or anything.
Actually I wasn't even thinking of Watchmen when I started. I think that'd be... pretty sweet, actually.
But then again, people can disagree. I'm cool with that.
And Joker. Anarky. Harley Quinn. Black Mask. David Kain. I mean, there's an entire list. But if the video games and animated series is all you know, then sure. Of course.
For the vast majority, yes, the video game, animated series, and movies are all they know. The Joker is one of the very few Batman villains most folks can name offhand - and his only "power" is being so violently insane he doesn't even care about hurting himself.
Heck, a fair number of people didn't even watch the animated series, and thus don't know from, say, Killer Croc or Clayface. Anarky? Black Mask? Those net you a shrug. And even I, as a fairly casual Batfan, draw a blank on David Kain.
It's kind of like expecting people who aren't steeped in comics lore to know the relationship between Prof. X and the Juggernaut in Marvel, or who the frak Dubbilex is in DC.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
...Actually I wasn't even thinking of Watchmen when I started. I think that'd be... pretty sweet, actually.
But then again, people can disagree. I'm cool with that.
I think the problem with the Watchmen IP would be that it would almost have to be a prequel game (whether MMO or Single Player RPG).
The events leading up to the comic seriously thinned the mask population and the events in the comic pretty much killed the prospects of masks for good, despite what Veidt believed, because it would be the Superpowers (ie US and USSR) that unite to take on the aliens, not any new masks on the horizon.
Not to mention said Superpowers are still destined to nuke the earth (at least, according Dr M).
Maybe The Venture Bros, as an IP? Though, they've definitely had a power creep (and ridiculousness creep) in the later seasons.
The problem with this is that the way things are now and Cryptic's place in PWE's hands, the game that would come of it would be heavily monetized on the character customization and we might not even see ability customization. A prime example and starting point of what Cryptic can do: Champions. What they instead do with it: Neverwinter. The fun factor of what an MMO should be has gotten worse with each game. I wouldn't be surprised if their next project would be a rail shooter where you only get to change the color of your UI (for a small fee of 3000 Zen per color).
The engine would be better off in the hands of people who want to bring it to its fullest where monetization is an afterthought.
Sadly, I have to agree. Cryptic, the absolute best thing they could possibly do for this game is to take it away from PWE's funding and get someone else to pay the bills.
The thing about non-powered heroes is that MMOs aren't medium that can pull them right. This kind of character needs more complicated quests, investigations, not only combat. MMOs on the other hand, are based almost entirely around combat, quests are simple and I think TSW is the only one doing things kinda different.
Also, making all kind of non-powered heroes into MMO would end, frankly, making them superpowered in a way - their gun and melee moves would need to be overly flashy, exaggerated and over-the-top to make any difference between builds and powers, since when everyone has only gun/fists/blades, something else had to be done to not only made powers works different, but also look different.
It would look like over-the-top kung-fu movies, but with guns used in animations.
As one who has played the Tabletop Dark Champions and liked it, I would have to say maybe.
First let me clarify something about Dark Champions, it isn't about un-powered heroes, it's about genre and power level. It's also about where your powers come from and how they play out.
Take the Avengers for example
(01) Captain America, Hawkeye and Black Widow are prime examples of lower powered heroes and all fit perfectly in the setting.
(02) Iron Man, Black Panther and the Falcon all possess powers through technology and may also possess minor super abilities as well.
(03) Thor (mortal Donald Blake), Tigra and the hex-bolt Scarlet Witch (not Reality or Chaos Wanda) would all have their power levels drastically reduced but Dark Champions doesn't exclude borrowed power or mystic items/weaponry.
* Characters like Jack of Hearts and Starfox and possibly the various Hank Pyms would be so watered down they wouldn't be worth playing.
Dark Champions controls how you purchase your powers and adds flavoured Drawbacks and Limitations to further the genre, think more along the lines of the early Pulp or Adventure heroes. Many Pulp Heroes while mostly skill and tech based did have a unique power of their own.
Anyways back to the question, Would you play 'Dark Champions' if Cryptic made it?
As an expansion to Champions, yes.
As a stand alone purchase, I'm not so sure.
AC
I wonder if it would be possible to make a setting (probably only a city at first, maybe more later) where passage is filtered, such that any character created on the more limited templates and powersets that would fit Dark Champs could go there, but any Dark Champ who wanted to venture into the four-color world of the rest of CO could go out?
That is to say, Alleycat, former second-story man who's turned his skills at sneaking, lockpicking, and parkour to the fighting of crime, could go visit Mill City and hang out with the likes of Happifun and Hypernova if he wanted, but the capes wouldn't be able to go to his home in the crime-riddled, corrupt city of <Insert City Here>?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
It would look like over-the-top kung-fu movies, but with guns used in animations.
Doesn't the Munitions set rip off Equilibrium enough already? :biggrin:
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Alleycat sounds like a perfect Dark Champion character.
I think the idea of an expansion works for me is because every time I take a character to pre-apocalypse Vibora Bay I get the urge to make up a lower powered gangbuster character. Black Mask needs all the help she can get.
AC
I wonder if it would be possible to make a setting (probably only a city at first, maybe more later) where passage is filtered, such that any character created on the more limited templates and powersets that would fit Dark Champs could go there, but any Dark Champ who wanted to venture into the four-color world of the rest of CO could go out?
That is to say, Alleycat, former second-story man who's turned his skills at sneaking, lockpicking, and parkour to the fighting of crime, could go visit Mill City and hang out with the likes of Happifun and Hypernova if he wanted, but the capes wouldn't be able to go to his home in the crime-riddled, corrupt city of <Insert City Here>?
You have something here....
I'd honestly be okay if it were a comic pack. Maybe a 'big comic pack' that could be monetized.
Don't want it? Don't buy it.
Some things could come with it, some things could be unlocked. Maybe a new Archetype? Some costume sets, weapon unlocks, titles....
Use it to debut a new Unarmed powerset similar to street justice (Probably the coolest power set in CoX, LOL), and maybe throw that Staff fighting set in.
I mean, of course 'any hero' could play it. It's not like 'dude that breathes fire' is any more dangerous than 'dude who uses guns' in CO's gameplay. I mean, you could for sure get your butt handed to you by some crazy criminals.
Joined this late so not read every reply, so I may repeat some points already made.
I suspect the OP is playing the wrong game, as most Superhero games are based on heroes with superpowers. Even Dark Champions allows superpowers, it just disallows some of the powers available in regular Champions, many of which we don't have in the game anyway. DC also caps heroes at a lower points total which would make all those who dislike the launch day 'nerf' complain even more. Finally, it would require an extensive rewrite to incorporate the many skills required to do DC justice. Skills are generally glossed over in most MMOs and the few times we can use skills in CO can be frustrating if you don't have the relevant skill and so have to miss out on the 'fun'. Typically heroes in DC have many skills, such as languages, sciences, medical, scientific, professional, investigating and forensic to name but a few. Dark Champions works best as a crime solving game which eventually leads to a showdown. The action would be slower and more cerebral, which would appeal to some, but others would hate it. Whilst I wouldn't mind a more cerebral challenge, I am not so naive to think that Cryptic have the resources to add the level of detail required to incorporate a proper Dark Champions game.
Furthermore, it is incredibly naive to think that just because it's Dark Champions, no advanced Tech/Magic is allowed. The hero on the cover of the DC manual is so overpowered as to be ridiculous. He makes Batman look like an ignorant noob and the Punisher a Samaritan. He summons weapons from an inter-dimensional space, hardly street level powers at all. In short, I fail to see how DC would reduce the number of heroes of the type the OP detests, as they are still allowed in the rules and even the titular hero is one of them.
Finally, as it would be incredibly difficult to incorporate DC properly and do it justice, even if they had the resources, which they don't, I would rather they used them to expand the current game, as the end result would be far bigger. However, a new edgier zone, with less parody would be fine, but it does seem that most post launch content has been going that way anyhow.
For the vast majority, yes, the video game, animated series, and movies are all they know. The Joker is one of the very few Batman villains most folks can name offhand - and his only "power" is being so violently insane he doesn't even care about hurting himself.
Heck, a fair number of people didn't even watch the animated series, and thus don't know from, say, Killer Croc or Clayface. Anarky? Black Mask? Those net you a shrug. And even I, as a fairly casual Batfan, draw a blank on David Kain.
It's kind of like expecting people who aren't steeped in comics lore to know the relationship between Prof. X and the Juggernaut in Marvel, or who the frak Dubbilex is in DC.
I'd honestly be okay if it were a comic pack. Maybe a 'big comic pack' that could be monetized.
Don't want it? Don't buy it.
Some things could come with it, some things could be unlocked. Maybe a new Archetype? Some costume sets, weapon unlocks, titles....
Use it to debut a new Unarmed powerset similar to street justice (Probably the coolest power set in CoX, LOL), and maybe throw that Staff fighting set in.
I mean, of course 'any hero' could play it. It's not like 'dude that breathes fire' is any more dangerous than 'dude who uses guns' in CO's gameplay. I mean, you could for sure get your butt handed to you by some crazy criminals.
Now I'm inspired. CONTEST TIME!!!
I like. I like very much.
I wonder what would be better, a level 40 experience or a leveling experience?
Half of me says level 40, because I wouldn't have to worry about XP gain or power/advantage point gain. Just do the content. One would also assume it would be easier to tune, because you would have all the skills.
The other half of me says leveling, because it would take away the point of a new AT (assuming one), and we could always use more leveling options.
Finally, as it would be incredibly difficult to incorporate DC properly and do it justice, even if they had the resources, which they don't, I would rather they used them to expand the current game, as the end result would be far bigger. However, a new edgier zone, with less parody would be fine, but it does seem that most post launch content has been going that way anyhow. [/COLOR]
I read in a thing somewhere, that the game transitioned to a 'modern action setting' with a subgenre book for 'costumed vigilante/crimefighters.
I wonder what would be better, a level 40 experience or a leveling experience?
Half of me says level 40, because I wouldn't have to worry about XP gain or power/advantage point gain. Just do the content. One would also assume it would be easier to tune, because you would have all the skills.
The other half of me says leveling, because it would take away the point of a new AT (assuming one), and we could always use more leveling options.
I'd honestly say it should be a scaled adventure like the Adventure Packs/Comic Packs we had in the past that scaled to your level. I'd just want it to be a pretty big one, maybe with enough to get a player to "Alertin' Level".
I'd honestly be okay if it were a comic pack. Maybe a 'big comic pack' that could be monetized.
Don't want it? Don't buy it.
Some things could come with it, some things could be unlocked. Maybe a new Archetype? Some costume sets, weapon unlocks, titles....
Use it to debut a new Unarmed powerset similar to street justice (Probably the coolest power set in CoX, LOL), and maybe throw that Staff fighting set in.
I mean, of course 'any hero' could play it. It's not like 'dude that breathes fire' is any more dangerous than 'dude who uses guns' in CO's gameplay. I mean, you could for sure get your butt handed to you by some crazy criminals.
Now I'm inspired. CONTEST TIME!!!
see as an expansion, id be totally down for it, even as a new zone(a big, mill ity sized zone, content wise) where the setting and enemies are a bit darker and grimmer, that would be fine. the biggest thing that got me was the limitation of origins, but if you let the setting determine it without limiting the players freedom, that would work for me and i'd support it financially.
One minor niggle is that co seems to have already tried to ape street justice when the fist archetype came out, they added a few more attacks to the martial arts set, the knee attack, elbow strike, palm heel move, even the new energy builder that i use instead of martial arts' original spazzy one, though it does kind of look like your character is doing some sort of cardio workout rather than throwing punches....unfortunately animation wise i have to say that sj was better, in fact the knee move is one i often use to highlight why co's animations often bugged me, as it was too fast and lacked sj's feeling of momentum.
that said, I am always up for more martial arts animations, mmos tend to be limited because they cant have realistic grapple animations so akido, sambo,judo, jujutsu and even several moves from striking styles would be limited, but some boxing, capoeria, krav magah, muay thai, some of the more visually distinct kung-fu stules (mantis, 5 animals, drunken), or some really visually distinct street brawling. id pay money for that.
In the game my character is a leader of a Koborokuru (japanese) dwarf biker gang called "The Red Oni" they are rivals to the Wakyambi (african) Elf gang called the "Sun Gunners" in the city of Addersfield
Deathstroke is not originally a Batman villain. He is a Teen Titans villain. Kthx.
And like it was said before, Catwoman has no powers. Bad movies are not a source of comics information.
And Joker. Anarky. Harley Quinn. Black Mask. David Kain. I mean, there's an entire list. But if the video games and animated series is all you know, then sure. Of course.
Actually, Batman is interesting for a ton of other reasons. If this is your reason, then have fun using the Justice League Animated series as your source.
And Watchmen wasn't massively successful or anything.
Actually I wasn't even thinking of Watchmen when I started. I think that'd be... pretty sweet, actually.
But then again, people can disagree. I'm cool with that.
Kind of a needlessly hostile response, IMO. Maybe I'm just being sensitive.
Neither is Solomun Grundy, so what? Many villains have become primary nemesis for heroes that didn't start out with.
Cat Woman was retconned as having super powers years ago (possibly several times, this is DC after all). Unless that was changed with the new 52 (which I have not read any of). In any case, even if I'm wrong (which I might be, but I don't think so), its ultimately immaterial as one example of many that I provided.
And speaking of using the AU series as a source; it's kind of ironic you'd accuse me of that given that is exactly where Harley has her origins, and is, as far as I know, the only animated character that has worked its way into canon comic continuity... But anyway...
my point still stands. batman exists within a universe of powered and unpowered villains and is all the more interesting for it. Just my opinions, I didn't claim them to be anything else.
edit: ****ty movie? Assuming you mean Sharron Stone as Cat Woman? I've never even seen the Halle Barry version. I don't think she was even had powers in Batman Returns. I liked the movie when I saw it as a kid. *shrug*
And seriously, what was wrong with JLU? For a half hours kids cartoon it tried to stay pretty faithful to the source material it tried to re-envision.
my point about Watchmen is that very few series featuring unpowered heroes/villains have become popular. Watchmen is the exception, not the rule (and I do love watchmen, btw - movie and comic).
I would enjoy it as an expansion as suggested by others (I have a few thematically unpowered heroes in champs), but as a stand alone game? mehhhh.
Dark Champions as an expansion would be great. I would even pay money for it. Expansions is something I think Cryptic should work on.
New Zone: Hudson City.
Could make mobs in different areas for different levels ranging from 10-40.
Introduce a new powerset or two. Or one new set, then new powers for a few others. Expand upon unarmed in more boxer/streetfighter (rough punches not the fighting game) and add knife attacks and some more firearms/bow powers.
Add new Nemesis options (like personalities) and new nem missions to the overall story of the new expansion.
make it $30.00 (and worth the $30.00) you can have sales on it every once and a while too, like when the next expansion comes out. New Expansion! Get the old ones half off and get them all together, or something like that. Buy one, get half off.
Then further expansions could be bigger or smaller (price adjusting of course) and could be tied to actual stories from the PnP.
Future Arcs could include:
Destroyer's (real Destroyer) island (Destruga? I forget how to spell it.)
A city where Mechanon invaded and conquered. (this is the first one I would love to see, cause the fact Mechanon is not is the game should be a crime.)
A China Zone where we get to have those teams introduced. (Part of it should be set up like the Hi-Pan alert, cause that instance is beautiful!)
A space one where the Galactic lore can be introduced (adding Cosmic powers to the game.)
There is a lot more I could add, but I am putting up enough of a wall as it is, Sorry for the long post ^^
I love how for a game with so few people, and so little attention, people keep insinuating that 'if you don't like it you should go elsewhere'.
I assume the majority of the people playing CO regularly want to play superheroes, certainly the friends I have here do, otherwise they would devote more of their time to another game. What you describe is not a superhero game, since you hate future tech and magic. Thus the two main inspirations of this genre, DC and Marvel, plus most of the rest, would contain content you dislike. What you propose is another genre entirely, thus the content you want would prevent many people playing the hero they want whilst now you can still play the hero you want. Thus it is you who is in fact pushing people away from CO, as I can and do currently play a low tech street level heroes, but you want a zone where I couldn't play with my other toons.
I read in a thing somewhere, that the game transitioned to a 'modern action setting' with a subgenre book for 'costumed vigilante/crimefighters.
Unlike you I own Dark Champions and believe me there is nothing in the rules to stop players creating the sort of concepts you hate. In fact my munitions toon iin the game is 300 years old and uses magically enchanted flintlocks. How else would he never have to reload after every shot Whilst it is true that guns and blades are more prevalent, CO caters well for these already and in fact compared to traditional comics has far more of those and lacks many obvious superpowers. As I have already stated, the Dark Champions titular Harbinger, TELEPORTS his weapons from an undetectable source whenever he needs them.
What you perceive Dark Champions to be is not in fact the case, although in a PnP game it could be, in CO it definitely wouldn't be unless Cryptic designed a separate game, not going to happen, or made a very restrictive zone for the few who want a non superpower game, again will not happen, as it will alienate the core players.
I'd honestly say it should be a scaled adventure like the Adventure Packs/Comic Packs we had in the past that scaled to your level. I'd just want it to be a pretty big one, maybe with enough to get a player to "Alertin' Level".
Nope, not if it meant many players would be alienated because they couldn't play their superpowered toons in the adventure pack. However, if they did a grittier, darker pack, which focuses on villains using non magical and current tech, whilst still allowing all players to play, then sure why not.
I assume the majority of the people playing CO regularly want to play superheroes, certainly the friends I have here do, otherwise they would devote more of their time to another game. What you describe is not a superhero game, since you hate future tech and magic. Thus the two main inspirations of this genre, DC and Marvel, plus most of the rest, would contain content you dislike. What you propose is another genre entirely, thus the content you want would prevent many people playing the hero they want whilst now you can still play the hero you want. Thus it is you who is in fact pushing people away from CO, as I can and do currently play a low tech street level heroes, but you want a zone where I couldn't play with my other toons.
I hate future tech? Really? It's not like my main's a cyborg or anything.
You're not very good at this 'telling me what I like'. At no point did I say I 'hate' these games. At no point in my idea did I say you couldn't play your toons. If I'm 'pushing people away from CO' somehow with this, then you know... no. There are no words. Perhaps you should again read what I proposed first (entirely new game) and then later (comic pack). Then come back and try again without telling me what I like and don't like. if that is 'pushing someone away from CO', then they probably can't read good and probably don't need to internet.
I want chicken wings for lunch today. You would assume because of this that I hate pizza.
Oh, and it's not that I hate magic- I hate the way it's used to often without being quantified and as a cheap writing hook.
Nope, not if it meant many players would be alienated because they couldn't play their superpowered toons in the adventure pack. However, if they did a grittier, darker pack, which focuses on villains using non magical and current tech, whilst still allowing all players to play, then sure why not.
Did I say that? You use a lot of words and don't read others. That's a sign of narcissism you know.
I suggested 1- an entirely new game on its own, or 2- a comic/adventure pack.
Please read again before talking down your nose at me.
Dark Champions as an expansion would be great. I would even pay money for it. Expansions is something I think Cryptic should work on.
New Zone: Hudson City.
Could make mobs in different areas for different levels ranging from 10-40.
The problem is they kinda said we weren't getting a new zone. It's cool to hope, but I don't see it happening. Granted, I do like the idea and if I were to make a superhero or science fiction game- this is what I'd do, you'd have zones you could 'originate' in, and skip around them all if you wanted, or stay in one.
[Add new Nemesis options (like personalities) and new nem missions to the overall story of the new expansion.
make it $30.00 (and worth the $30.00) you can have sales on it every once and a while too, like when the next expansion comes out. New Expansion! Get the old ones half off and get them all together, or something like that. Buy one, get half off.
This is why I think they should have never given their comic packs out for free... first of all, I'd paid for 2 of them. But this could have been something to monetize for years.
Destroyer's (real Destroyer) island (Destruga? I forget how to spell it.)
A city where Mechanon invaded and conquered. (this is the first one I would love to see, cause the fact Mechanon is not is the game should be a crime.)
A China Zone where we get to have those teams introduced. (Part of it should be set up like the Hi-Pan alert, cause that instance is beautiful!)
A space one where the Galactic lore can be introduced (adding Cosmic powers to the game.)
There is a lot more I could add, but I am putting up enough of a wall as it is, Sorry for the long post ^^
All of this I would be down for. Especially a space zone where my hover-tank would MAKE SENSE.
Kind of a needlessly hostile response, IMO. Maybe I'm just being sensitive.
*offers beef jerky and whiskey-coffee*
It might be, but there's no tone in text, so that's kind of why what sounds like debate might seem jerkish (I am a jerk to someone else in this thread, shamelessly).
Neither is Solomun Grundy, so what? Many villains have become primary nemesis for heroes that didn't start out with.
But he's still not set as a Batman villain. He's kind of a universal one, but he was originally a Teen Titans villain and stayed so for most of his years.
Cat Woman was retconned as having super powers years ago (possibly several times, this is DC after all). Unless that was changed with the new 52 (which I have not read any of). In any case, even if I'm wrong (which I might be, but I don't think so), its ultimately immaterial as one example of many that I provided.
I'm not calling you a liar here, but I'm not sure this ever happened and I'm really curios to see if it did. In New 52, it doesn't do much with her that I've read.
And speaking of using the AU series as a source; it's kind of ironic you'd accuse me of that given that is exactly where Harley has her origins, and is, as far as I know, the only animated character that has worked its way into canon comic continuity... But anyway...
Make it two characters- Mr. Freeze was on the TV show, then the cartoon explained his origin, and that made its way into comics canon.
Until recently. Now, you don't get to feel as bad for Freeze.
The DCAU is, in my opinion, the single best-realized version of any comics verse that I know.
For me, it is the definitive version of DC.
Yes, I know about the various periods in the comics' history, cannon, the 1980s RPG, and so on. I just think that the DCAU version was done with the best writing, most coherent style, and coolest development of origins/powers/etc.
Imagine our 'power sets'- no magic, no super powers, no crazy tech. Guns. Bows. Martial arts. Melee weapons. Imagine if we took those categories and expanded them.
So despite your later comments, it is clear you don't like future tech and would like it removed from the new area or game. Far from me being narcissistic, you are either having severe memory issues or have a multiple personality disorder.
You're not very good at this 'telling me what I like'. At no point did I say I 'hate' these games. At no point in my idea did I say you couldn't play your toons. If I'm 'pushing people away from CO' somehow with this, then you know... no. There are no words. Perhaps you should again read what I proposed first (entirely new game) and then later (comic pack). Then come back and try again without telling me what I like and don't like. if that is 'pushing someone away from CO', then they probably can't read good and probably don't need to internet.
You are clearly delusional if you think limiting powersets to low tech only and preventing people from selecting magic, superpowers or crazy tech to use your words wouldn't drive people away from the game. How exactly could I play all my toons in the new area, if your desire to restrict the power choices so much was implemented?
Did I say that? You use a lot of words and don't read others. That's a sign of narcissism you know.
I suggested 1- an entirely new game on its own, or 2- a comic/adventure pack.
Please read again before talking down your nose at me.
I suggest you need help, as not only did you say that, see my earlier comment, but you have a reading and/or a memory issue as well. Maybe it is you who is being narcissistic by your own definition as you seem not to read all the words. I actually acknowledged your two suggestions and gave my reasons for not supporting them, together with a compromise.
So despite your later comments, it is clear you don't like future tech and would like it removed from the new area or game. Far from me being narcissistic, you are either having severe memory issues or have a multiple personality disorder.
I never once said 'I don't like those things'. You keep missing the point, or you're reading something that's not there.
Hang on, let me make a better analogy.
I would love a science fiction MMORPG that didn't revolve around spaceships.
I don't hate spaceships. I like space ships. They're cool. I would just like something that didn't revolve around them as well, because I already have Star Trek and Star Wars.
You are clearly delusional if you think limiting powersets to low tech only and preventing people from selecting magic, superpowers or crazy tech to use your words wouldn't drive people away from the game. How exactly could I play all my toons in the new area, if your desire to restrict the power choices so much was implemented?
You're also trying to mask insults here.
So, I'll say this- and it's very difficult for some players of this game to grasp, so hold it.
If I made my own game I would not be trying to accommodate every possible taste. If you don't like this, then it's perfectly fine for you to not play it. I'm okay with that.
However, nothing I've said is with the intention to 'drive people away from the game'. It was a hypothetical question about a hypothetical game. You are losing all credibility here with this 'reading things that aren't there'. As a matter of fact, if a simply 'alternative game' idea such as this is 'driving people away from CO', then I don't know how that'd be possible- and if it were, I'd say the game's following was weak and it was probably inevitable.
So, allow me to re-iterate for the slow.
1- I asked if a certain studio made an entirely new game, if people would play it.
2- I took Sills' idea and offered an entirely new zone without any power restrictions, based entirely on a specific setting.
Bad analogy, because as I have shown above, you did say you don't like magic and crazy tech.
No such thing has ever been said. Ever. As a matter of fact, I highly suggest you look at my VARIETY of recommendations for this game, items both modern and futuristic.
If you're 'proving' anything, please do not ever debate anything or become a lawyer.
Quantified? What unit is used to measure magic? kilopotters?
Actually it's quite simple. Many actual writers have done it. Types of magic, materials needed for spells, actual 'mana' or some other form of magic 'fuel'. It's been done before, and perhaps if you were experienced as you claim to be you would be aware of this.
I suggest you need help, as not only did you say that, see my earlier comment, but you have a reading and/or a memory issue as well. Maybe it is you who is being narcissistic by your own definition as you seem not to read all the words. I actually acknowledged your two suggestions and gave my reasons for not supporting them, together with a compromise.
And as I have clearly pointed out, and yet you have either selectively ignored or fail to grasp the English language- or simply find yourself threatened by the idea of another, the things you have said? I did not say.
Go back, try again, or perhaps find an adult to help you. I'll be waiting for you to find the point where I, a player of a 'super tech' main character, said I hated supertech.
The DCAU is, in my opinion, the single best-realized version of any comics verse that I know.
For me, it is the definitive version of DC.
Yes, I know about the various periods in the comics' history, cannon, the 1980s RPG, and so on. I just think that the DCAU version was done with the best writing, most coherent style, and coolest development of origins/powers/etc.
Well-meaning people may disagree.
I'm looking at this, and it seems to be in line with something I'd play.
If I were to order this book, what other books would I need? In addition, what books would you recommend?
And don't say I need dice, please. I have an absurd amount in a Fallout 3 lunchbox. I'm not even kidding, I've got more dice than Vegas here. I had a friend who ran a game shop and when he shut it down he told me that dice don't sell as hot as you think... and a lot of people in the last decade or so just started using digital dice-rollers (there's even an iPhone app for various dice, apparently).
For d20, no
I did play d20 Modern a bit, and I am a D&D player from the eaerly 1980s.
Trying Savage Worlds now.
D20 Spectaculars. If you want to run it like my old group did, also get D20 future (for alien races/tech), D20 Future Tech (for hi-tech hero equipment), and D20 Cyberscape (because there's some crazy stuff in there).
D20 future is also sufficient if you just want 'mutant' type characters, and don't want Spectaculars.
Weapons Locker isn't a bad addition but for me using basic weapons and saying 'this is the stats for a 9mm' and not 'this is the stats for a Glock' was enough.
You can always use D&D books in addition and hijack the monsters and magical items if so inclined.
in reply to cybersoldier1981 (I didn't want to quote everything posted.)
About the New Zone. I know they said we would most likely not be getting a new zone, but they also said they would be working on much of anything, unless there is money to be made.
If they attached the almighty $ to a new zone as part of an update, and the possibility of $ to be made, COULD mean they may try. It is a long shot, but this whole thread is full of "ifs" and "maybes" and "long shots."
If there could be money to be made, it helps the chances of getting it is all, and I can dream
I never once said 'I don't like those things'. You keep missing the point, or you're reading something that's not there.
Hang on, let me make a better analogy.
I would love a science fiction MMORPG that didn't revolve around spaceships.
I don't hate spaceships. I like space ships. They're cool. I would just like something that didn't revolve around them as well, because I already have Star Trek and Star Wars.
Is this too difficult to understand? I'm baffled.
I am not going to debate this endlessly, you stated very clearly your intent in your original post, again I quote:
'Gone would be the silliness. Gone would be the mysticism that permeates the game. Gone would be the impossible supertech. '
Now, if you didn't mean to imply that you disliked supertech and crazy tech to use your definitions, maybe you should have used a less inflammatory tone. It is not the fault of the reader if the poor writing skills leave the meaning ambiguous. For the sake of further argument lets assume you do like tech after all, even if you do want it removed from the new game and/or area.
So, I'll say this- and it's very difficult for some players of this game to grasp, so hold it.
If I made my own game I would not be trying to accommodate every possible taste. If you don't like this, then it's perfectly fine for you to not play it. I'm okay with that.
However, nothing I've said is with the intention to 'drive people away from the game'. It was a hypothetical question about a hypothetical game. You are losing all credibility here with this 'reading things that aren't there'. As a matter of fact, if a simply 'alternative game' idea such as this is 'driving people away from CO', then I don't know how that'd be possible- and if it were, I'd say the game's following was weak and it was probably inevitable.
So, allow me to re-iterate for the slow.
1- I asked if a certain studio made an entirely new game, if people would play it.
2- I took Sills' idea and offered an entirely new zone without any power restrictions, based entirely on a specific setting.
Just for the record, repeating yourself by changing your wording doesn't strengthen your argument. It should be clear to even you by now, that I understood your points, but I don't agree with them. Pretending I don't understand because I don't agree with you is the ploy of a desperate person who knows he has no valid argument. Sill's idea was no capes, so this would still restrict superpower choices. If, as you claim above there wouldn't be any power restrictions, how exactly would this area stop all the toons you don't want entering? Wasn't the whole point of your OP that you wanted a low tech, non magic and no supertech environment? If you have now backtracked, how is this meaningfully different to my compromise suggestion?
I never said your question would drive players away as you well know, I said that if they did follow your suggestion of a non superpowered zone then it would, as most players here don't want that. A darker theme maybe, but not at the expense of having to make toons that fit your incredibly narrow definition of a hero. This is why the majority of people on this thread do not like your proposal.
Actually it's quite simple. Many actual writers have done it. Types of magic, materials needed for spells, actual 'mana' or some other form of magic 'fuel'. It's been done before, and perhaps if you were experienced as you claim to be you would be aware of this.
We already have a way of measuring magic in the game, its called energy, the same as for every powerset. What the source of energy is up to the toons creator. If you think calling it mana would improve the game somehow, then although I think you are delusional, I won't object if they rename energy to something else for each powerset. However, what I suspect you mean is qualify NOT quantify, as there is some merit in that, even though it should be up to the individual again to define his source of power. In early PnP Champions, all superpowers derived from magic, even high tech. This was later retconned because players disliked being so restricted. What you suggest in removing superpowers is even more so.
I think I may need to clarify my own statement. I'm not even sure it's possible to do this, but...
...I think that Dark Champs might be best if the starting area (let's use Hudson City, since that seems to be the default - Dark Champs postdates my knowledge of the PnP game) were accessible only to toons created under its more restrictive powersets and stat levels. On the other tentacle, I'd like it if those toons could also venture out into the four-color world I prefer, and match themselves against the likes of Destroyer's minions and the renegade Lemurians. Then there could be a parallel game for those who dislike the capes, where they could run around in gritty street-level adventures and not get involved in over-the-top world-saving; and there would also be an option for someone who was curious about it to take their street avenger up against a superhuman threat, just to see how they'd do.
I don't want to allow the capes into the Dark zone(s) for the same reason Superman doesn't just go clean up Gotham - the capes would overpower the street avengers to a truly ludicrous degree, and no one likes being made to feel like a second banana in their own story.
As I said, having this limited form of crossover access may not even be possible, but if it were, this would be my preferred method of implementation for a hypothetical Dark Champions expansion.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Cervando, you can flame all you want. I'm sorry that I am interested in a possible game that does not cater to your distinct taste. I'm sorry that you see wanting to omit something from a setting is 'inflammatory'. I don't see how you feel 'cheated' here. I don't see how 'not putting something in' is 'removing' it. This is simple third grade language and vocabulary.
Game and setting were two different ideas, sorry you missed that.
If you're looking for something to get buttmad over, I highly advise you to go elsewhere. I will not be tailoring this thread to appease your personal tastes, and you are apparently reading words that are not in my statements. I am sorry you are 'inflamed', but rest assured that your behavior has assured me that a game like this would keep people like you out, and that's an amazing game feature in itself.
I'd like to see it come to be for the benefit of those who want to play that game.
Wouldn't enjoy it myself, but to each their own, right?
This is probably the closest to how I feel about this idea, though personally, I'd probably try it just because I'm weird like that lol. That and I already play my solider AT with this concept in mind. In any case as a separate game, this is a very good idea. I can imagine the pvp would be easier to balance as well and it would probably bring in its fair share of fans. As a modification of CO, I would hate it and leave within a day, as would a lot of people who are fans of silliness, impossible supertech, the mysticism that permeates the game. But I digress.
As a separate game it works well. I do wonder if this can be made into a separate zone within the game. That too would work but the logistics of such a thing are beyond me. Possibly a separate game with linked banks and such but even then, that may hurt the concept. It would have been nice if the quests in this game were chained in a manner that suited certain types of archetypes (the street vigilante vs. the anti-hero vs. the high-powered caped superhero). I feel the idea of archetypes and playstyles is something most games in general don't emphasize enough. I feel as if tailoring quest chains to this would allow most people to really get what they want out of their experience while encouraging them to try different things, but that's another discussion for another time I guess.
In any case, a separate game would work really well. Of course, I don't know if Cryptic could even implement such a thing at this time. And if they could, I would wonder where my Villains Online game is. :biggrin:
"I tried to look at that page but saw only inane comments."
Cervando, you can flame all you want. I'm sorry that I am interested in a possible game that does not cater to your distinct taste. I'm sorry that you see wanting to omit something from a setting is 'inflammatory'. I don't see how you feel 'cheated' here. I don't see how 'not putting something in' is 'removing' it. This is simple third grade language and vocabulary.
Game and setting were two different ideas, sorry you missed that.
If you're looking for something to get buttmad over, I highly advise you to go elsewhere. I will not be tailoring this thread to appease your personal tastes, and you are apparently reading words that are not in my statements. I am sorry you are 'inflamed', but rest assured that your behavior has assured me that a game like this would keep people like you out, and that's an amazing game feature in itself.
ROFL, I love the way you attempt to take the moral high ground. It was you who started flaming, don't complain if you give and then receive. Furthermore, sarcasm is only witty when it's funny, you weren't, so don't pretend to be sorry when you aren't. As to third grade education, unlike you I paid attention. When something already exists in the game, ie superpowers and then you introduce a new area where they are not available, you have indeed removed them. Equally when they exist in Dark Champions and you base a game on that franchise without superpowers, you still have removed them. You are arguing semantics.
Repeating I don't realize you are discussing both a new game and a separate area to the existing one doesn't make you right, it merely shows you either have a reading or comprehension problem, as I have addressed this before.
When did I say was buttmad or inflamed? I said you used inflammatory words, it doesn't mean that I was inflamed, just that it could inflame certain readers. As to your game I am sure it would keep most people out, judging by the enthusiasm shown in your thread for your 'game'. I suggest rather than an MMORPG, it be dubbed a SPORPG instead
Now lets analyze your 2 concepts in more detail:
1. A separate game based on Dark Champions.
Now, lets pretend that DC doesn't have any superpowers, magic or crazytech like you want, even though it does. Financially it would make little sense to launch this game as the superhero genre is niche enough already, without further marginalizing it. However if Cryptic think otherwise and want to launch it, then let them. I predict a financial disaster, but time will tell.
2. A separate area based on Dark Champions within CO.
Assuming the same faulty premise as before, the reason I like this idea even less is because in a game that lacks content, you are suggesting adding some that prevents players entering with some or even all of their toons. This is assuming you stand by your support of Jonsil's concept. I am not sure where Cryptic would stand legally, if players complained about archetypes they had bought being unavailable to play in this new area either. Similarly for subscribers and LTS players.
To achieve what you suggest would require a huge reduction in what is available at the tailor, with further legal ramifications for costumes bought through the zen store at the very least. Unless you were prepared to put up with whimsical, demonic, crazytech and magical looking toons invading your area. Also a major re-write of the powers would be required to fit Dark Champions, such as actual ammunition being used up instead of energy builders. New passives would be needed, because those such as quarry would make no sense in your concept. The amount of work required would not justify the result, when those resources could be used to bring out content that would be available for everyone.
However, if you did allow all powers and all costumes, how does this differ from my proposal of a new area of CO which had a grittier more street level atmosphere but still allowed access to any type of concept?
Cervando, you can flame all you want. I'm sorry that I am interested in a possible game that does not cater to your distinct taste. I'm sorry that you see wanting to omit something from a setting is 'inflammatory'. I don't see how you feel 'cheated' here. I don't see how 'not putting something in' is 'removing' it. This is simple third grade language and vocabulary.
Game and setting were two different ideas, sorry you missed that.
If you're looking for something to get buttmad over, I highly advise you to go elsewhere. I will not be tailoring this thread to appease your personal tastes, and you are apparently reading words that are not in my statements. I am sorry you are 'inflamed', but rest assured that your behavior has assured me that a game like this would keep people like you out, and that's an amazing game feature in itself.
Cervando's not a bad guy at all. Looking back at the argument that ensued between the two of you, perhaps you can see why it might look like you got a bit "buttmad" yourself.
I welcome the discussion of Dark Champions, but some of your comments here are not really helping this thread.
ROFL, I love the way you attempt to take the moral high ground. It was you who started flaming, don't complain if you give and then receive. Furthermore, sarcasm is only witty when it's funny, you weren't, so don't pretend to be sorry when you aren't. As to third grade education, unlike you I paid attention. When something already exists in the game, ie superpowers and then you introduce a new area where they are not available, you have indeed removed them. Equally when they exist in Dark Champions and you base a game on that franchise without superpowers, you still have removed them. You are arguing semantics.
And here you go.
No, these are not semantics. I recommended 2 things:
1- And entirely new game. By Cryptic. You howled that something had been taken away, when in fact, it was not a factor in the original idea.
2- An entirely new alternate leveling zone, or rather a 'large comic pack'. Nothing was recommended to be omitted.
I'm not particularly taking the moral high ground, I'm simply avoiding a battle of wits with an unarmed adversary.
Repeating I don't realize you are discussing both a new game and a separate area to the existing one doesn't make you right, it merely shows you either have a reading or comprehension problem, as I have addressed this before.
When did I say was buttmad or inflamed? I said you used inflammatory words, it doesn't mean that I was inflamed, just that it could inflame certain readers. As to your game I am sure it would keep most people out, judging by the enthusiasm shown in your thread for your 'game'. I suggest rather than an MMORPG, it be dubbed a SPORPG instead
If referencing the theme of CO is 'silly', perhaps again- as I said, you should probably re-evaluate yourself or seek therapy. Fictional things and criticism of those things should not be considered 'inflammatory'. The only thing 'inflamed' is you, and as I said- I think you should stop being so 'offended' by another human's opinion. Well-adjusted adults do not do this.
Now, lets pretend that DC doesn't have any superpowers, magic or crazytech like you want, even though it does. Financially it would make little sense to launch this game as the superhero genre is niche enough already, without further marginalizing it. However if Cryptic think otherwise and want to launch it, then let them. I predict a financial disaster, but time will tell.
This is a fair opinion, and I cannot discredit it. However, with proper execution, even a 'limited' idea like this can be successful.
2. A separate area based on Dark Champions within CO.
Assuming the same faulty premise as before, the reason I like this idea even less is because in a game that lacks content, you are suggesting adding some that prevents players entering with some or even all of their toons. This is assuming you stand by your support of Jonsil's concept. I am not sure where Cryptic would stand legally, if players complained about archetypes they had bought being unavailable to play in this new area either. Similarly for subscribers and LTS players.
Sills suggested something somewhat different than I. I simply suggested an entire 'Comic/Adventure pack' as an alternate leveling area that could be monetized.
You claim to have 'paid attention' in third grade, and if your comprehension is at this level I weep for the failed education system.
To achieve what you suggest would require a huge reduction in what is available at the tailor, with further legal ramifications for costumes bought through the zen store at the very least. Unless you were prepared to put up with whimsical, demonic, crazytech and magical looking toons invading your area. Also a major re-write of the powers would be required to fit Dark Champions, such as actual ammunition being used up instead of energy builders. New passives would be needed, because those such as quarry would make no sense in your concept. The amount of work required would not justify the result, when those resources could be used to bring out content that would be available for everyone.
However, if you did allow all powers and all costumes, how does this differ from my proposal of a new area of CO which had a grittier more street level atmosphere but still allowed access to any type of concept?[/COLOR]
It doesn't. I suggest, once more, you go back and re-read what I responded to Sills. If there is any confusion, please let me know.
Cervando's not a bad guy at all. Looking back at the argument that ensued between the two of you, perhaps you can see why it might look like you got a bit "buttmad" yourself.
I actually defended my stance on my idea, which I'm allowed to do. I can understand why in the world of some folks, this may be 'offensive' when someone disagrees. However, not in the world in which I reside.
I personally don't care if he just cured AIDS in his basement with gummy worms and gas station coffee.
I have attempted to redirect it, but your precious pal there insists on coming back and digging. I suggest you read his posts.
I fully and wholly welcome his dislike of the idea. I do not, however, like what I've suggested to be misinterpreted. Nor do I like being insulted by someone who thinks they are being clever. He isn't, he's talked down his nose to me since he spewed into this discussion with the attitude of a spoiled manchild.
Comments
That's exactly my thoughts with it. If I had the choice, I'd take being able to punch dudes into the horizon or zap a bunch of guys into submission as opposed to nothing but guns and knives.
2- If all you see in a non-powered hero setting is 'nothing but guns and knives', you're an unimaginative person.
3- Go start reading Batman and Daredevil, pls.
I get why this wouldn't appeal to some peoples' interest. However, I do think that with the Cryptic engine (and better writers) it could be a good game. It could be a great setting.
However, if you cheapen something like this in your mind by writing it off as 'just a bunch of guns and knives', I return the challenge to you and say 'if your idea of character is being powerful, then you aren't a character- you're an avatar'. I mean, from a roleplaying standpoint, at least.
Edit:
But also, I think the fact that it wouldn't try to appeal to everyone could be its strength. I mean, CO can have all the caped heroes, demons, furries, and crazy tech toons (I'd not bail on CO), Dark Champions could appeal to those who do want something different entirely.
The problem I'm seeing here is that Dark Champions setting is far too niche. The superhero setting when it comes to MMORPGs is already considered a pretty niche in the first place.
The thing with CO is that the game services a broad range of superhero concepts. The expansive number of costume options allows for the player to create a superhero look that fits into the well known concepts defined by superhero pop-culture, including the dark / anti-hero types like Punisher and Batman.
I can see a Dark Champions MMO if it ever existed to really only cater to people who find the dark / anti-hero concept appealling, and I think that's far too limiting for anyone who wishes to create a superhero not fitting those concepts, especially considering that a Dark Champions MMO would remain a superhero game at its core, and a newer one than CO at that. I'm sure that people who love the superhero setting would be jumping on the bandwagon to try out that shiny new superhero MMO for sure, regardless of whether or not they like the setting in the first place.
I certainly would enjoy a superhero game with a dark, noir-like atmosphere and setting, but personally if I wanted to bring a cheery, idealistic superhero who is everything opposite of what heroes in Dark Champions represent to such a game environment, it's just going to feel silly to me. I can create any sort of hero, be it "light" or "dark" in concept currently in CO without having to be bothered by that.
HAHA indeed that would be worth doing XD
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Everything I read on this guy?
You'd probably miss. He was hella OP. Like Batman if he joined the NRA.
My biggest gripe? Characters like this shouldn't be used lightly.
I may like Daredevil or the Punisher, but they aren't only characters liked by me. I'm not sure if I'd ever invest in a game limiting me only to characters of this type. Very likely I'd be bored after making one character and as soon as I'm burned with this only one, I'd be done with the game.
Dark Champions idea seems to be more suited for a shooter, or singel player crpg, if anyone wanted to made a game out of it.
Best option would be a superhero mmo where all your available quests are dependent from your origin, kind of powers and morality. So player is sent into different zones and does different quests depends if he's non-powered vigilante, or the cape. And the only way to have quests of different power and origin is to share quest with other players.
PS.: Harbringer of Justice isn't the best character. Using something that overpowered as a poster character for setting of this kind is bad idea.
It really doesn't matter if he's writer's former player character and was developed that way during roleplaying him. Readers who see him for the first time don't know this, don't know his context, the only thing they see is something that fits Champions, but not Dark Champions, and this character should be either cut down, or not used at all.
(And you get 998 Negative Internet Points for pulling out the Batman Card)
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
hmmm. Disagree.
1. Batman has like, maybe 3 recognizable villains in popular culture (Penguin, Joker, Catwoman).. hardly an entire rogues gallery of popular characters... To a lesser degree The Riddler and Two Face, I guess. But only because of the older Batman movies.To the comic savant like us, this is obviously not the case and we know of his awesome expanded rogues gallery. But I do not think they are generally known about by the "wider audience".
2. a significant portion (if not most) of his villains DO have super powers..
Killer Croc, Bane, blockbuster, Catwoman, Clayface, Killer Moth, Man-Bat, Poison Ivy, Solomun Grundy, Deathstroke, not to mention pretty much the entire league of assassins... That's really just the tip of the iceberg.
3. The Batman villains that don't have super powers are mostly trite and boring. They're either assassins or serial killers.
Let's see... Hush, Firefly, Deadshot, Calendar Man, Victro Szasz, et all.
And Batman is interesting BECAUSE he is a powerless hero that exists within a universe filled with demi-god like superheroes/villains. Take away the super powers and you've got Watchmen Online. No thanks. The superhero genre is predicated on super powers save for a few exceptions that have been successful (of which Dark Champions isn't one).
I agree with you on the idea that a dark and gritty setting is more enjoyable than a campy 60's comic setting. I just believe there is room in a dark and gritty world for superheroes with powers. I mean, Batman and Sueprman do share a universe, after all.
This sums up my experience in The Secret World.
Granted, you are only given 3 character slots and the skills/abilities mechanics don't encourage alts, but neither do the setting and content. I have one main and 2 barely developed alts. I only created the alts to confirm the lack of difference between the factions (flavor text mostly).
Honestly, I enjoyed TSW initially, but it got old. When the setting screams single player adventure game (read investigation, exploration) and the mechanics scream single player adventure game, I have to wonder what drives/forces developers in this industry to make a MMO out of it (I'm looking at you NWO : )
Bringing this back to a Dark Champions game, one thing that bugged me (and others) in TSW was that the first 3 zones were from, geographically, the same area. So, naturally, they looked and felt the same. I could see this as an issue with a Dark Champions game, if it were an MMO. Could you really sell 6-8 zones of only Hudson City, even if you included the Highlands? As a single player game? Yes. As an MMO? I have my doubts.
So, anyway, I guess my answer to the thread title would be in two parts. Would I play the Dark Champions IP as a single player stand alone adventure game? Yes, definitely. Would I play Dark Champions as an MMO? No, or at least not very long, not from my experience with TSW.
Catwoman has no powers.
Deathstroke is not originally a Batman villain. He is a Teen Titans villain. Kthx.
And like it was said before, Catwoman has no powers. Bad movies are not a source of comics information.
And Joker. Anarky. Harley Quinn. Black Mask. David Kain. I mean, there's an entire list. But if the video games and animated series is all you know, then sure. Of course.
Actually, Batman is interesting for a ton of other reasons. If this is your reason, then have fun using the Justice League Animated series as your source.
And Watchmen wasn't massively successful or anything.
Actually I wasn't even thinking of Watchmen when I started. I think that'd be... pretty sweet, actually.
But then again, people can disagree. I'm cool with that.
Heck, a fair number of people didn't even watch the animated series, and thus don't know from, say, Killer Croc or Clayface. Anarky? Black Mask? Those net you a shrug. And even I, as a fairly casual Batfan, draw a blank on David Kain.
It's kind of like expecting people who aren't steeped in comics lore to know the relationship between Prof. X and the Juggernaut in Marvel, or who the frak Dubbilex is in DC.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I think the problem with the Watchmen IP would be that it would almost have to be a prequel game (whether MMO or Single Player RPG).
The events leading up to the comic seriously thinned the mask population and the events in the comic pretty much killed the prospects of masks for good, despite what Veidt believed, because it would be the Superpowers (ie US and USSR) that unite to take on the aliens, not any new masks on the horizon.
Not to mention said Superpowers are still destined to nuke the earth (at least, according Dr M).
Maybe The Venture Bros, as an IP? Though, they've definitely had a power creep (and ridiculousness creep) in the later seasons.
Sadly, I have to agree. Cryptic, the absolute best thing they could possibly do for this game is to take it away from PWE's funding and get someone else to pay the bills.
Also, making all kind of non-powered heroes into MMO would end, frankly, making them superpowered in a way - their gun and melee moves would need to be overly flashy, exaggerated and over-the-top to make any difference between builds and powers, since when everyone has only gun/fists/blades, something else had to be done to not only made powers works different, but also look different.
It would look like over-the-top kung-fu movies, but with guns used in animations.
First let me clarify something about Dark Champions, it isn't about un-powered heroes, it's about genre and power level. It's also about where your powers come from and how they play out.
Take the Avengers for example
(01) Captain America, Hawkeye and Black Widow are prime examples of lower powered heroes and all fit perfectly in the setting.
(02) Iron Man, Black Panther and the Falcon all possess powers through technology and may also possess minor super abilities as well.
(03) Thor (mortal Donald Blake), Tigra and the hex-bolt Scarlet Witch (not Reality or Chaos Wanda) would all have their power levels drastically reduced but Dark Champions doesn't exclude borrowed power or mystic items/weaponry.
* Characters like Jack of Hearts and Starfox and possibly the various Hank Pyms would be so watered down they wouldn't be worth playing.
Dark Champions controls how you purchase your powers and adds flavoured Drawbacks and Limitations to further the genre, think more along the lines of the early Pulp or Adventure heroes. Many Pulp Heroes while mostly skill and tech based did have a unique power of their own.
Anyways back to the question, Would you play 'Dark Champions' if Cryptic made it?
As an expansion to Champions, yes.
As a stand alone purchase, I'm not so sure.
AC
I wonder if it would be possible to make a setting (probably only a city at first, maybe more later) where passage is filtered, such that any character created on the more limited templates and powersets that would fit Dark Champs could go there, but any Dark Champ who wanted to venture into the four-color world of the rest of CO could go out?
That is to say, Alleycat, former second-story man who's turned his skills at sneaking, lockpicking, and parkour to the fighting of crime, could go visit Mill City and hang out with the likes of Happifun and Hypernova if he wanted, but the capes wouldn't be able to go to his home in the crime-riddled, corrupt city of <Insert City Here>?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Doesn't the Munitions set rip off Equilibrium enough already? :biggrin:
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I think the idea of an expansion works for me is because every time I take a character to pre-apocalypse Vibora Bay I get the urge to make up a lower powered gangbuster character. Black Mask needs all the help she can get.
AC
Yep. Even the bullet beatdown advantage, 'Not without incident' is taken from Equilibrium.
You have something here....
I'd honestly be okay if it were a comic pack. Maybe a 'big comic pack' that could be monetized.
Don't want it? Don't buy it.
Some things could come with it, some things could be unlocked. Maybe a new Archetype? Some costume sets, weapon unlocks, titles....
Use it to debut a new Unarmed powerset similar to street justice (Probably the coolest power set in CoX, LOL), and maybe throw that Staff fighting set in.
I mean, of course 'any hero' could play it. It's not like 'dude that breathes fire' is any more dangerous than 'dude who uses guns' in CO's gameplay. I mean, you could for sure get your butt handed to you by some crazy criminals.
Now I'm inspired. CONTEST TIME!!!
I suspect the OP is playing the wrong game, as most Superhero games are based on heroes with superpowers. Even Dark Champions allows superpowers, it just disallows some of the powers available in regular Champions, many of which we don't have in the game anyway. DC also caps heroes at a lower points total which would make all those who dislike the launch day 'nerf' complain even more. Finally, it would require an extensive rewrite to incorporate the many skills required to do DC justice. Skills are generally glossed over in most MMOs and the few times we can use skills in CO can be frustrating if you don't have the relevant skill and so have to miss out on the 'fun'. Typically heroes in DC have many skills, such as languages, sciences, medical, scientific, professional, investigating and forensic to name but a few. Dark Champions works best as a crime solving game which eventually leads to a showdown. The action would be slower and more cerebral, which would appeal to some, but others would hate it. Whilst I wouldn't mind a more cerebral challenge, I am not so naive to think that Cryptic have the resources to add the level of detail required to incorporate a proper Dark Champions game.
Furthermore, it is incredibly naive to think that just because it's Dark Champions, no advanced Tech/Magic is allowed. The hero on the cover of the DC manual is so overpowered as to be ridiculous. He makes Batman look like an ignorant noob and the Punisher a Samaritan. He summons weapons from an inter-dimensional space, hardly street level powers at all. In short, I fail to see how DC would reduce the number of heroes of the type the OP detests, as they are still allowed in the rules and even the titular hero is one of them.
Finally, as it would be incredibly difficult to incorporate DC properly and do it justice, even if they had the resources, which they don't, I would rather they used them to expand the current game, as the end result would be far bigger. However, a new edgier zone, with less parody would be fine, but it does seem that most post launch content has been going that way anyhow.
I like. I like very much.
I wonder what would be better, a level 40 experience or a leveling experience?
Half of me says level 40, because I wouldn't have to worry about XP gain or power/advantage point gain. Just do the content. One would also assume it would be easier to tune, because you would have all the skills.
The other half of me says leveling, because it would take away the point of a new AT (assuming one), and we could always use more leveling options.
I love how for a game with so few people, and so little attention, people keep insinuating that 'if you don't like it you should go elsewhere'.
I read in a thing somewhere, that the game transitioned to a 'modern action setting' with a subgenre book for 'costumed vigilante/crimefighters.
I'd honestly say it should be a scaled adventure like the Adventure Packs/Comic Packs we had in the past that scaled to your level. I'd just want it to be a pretty big one, maybe with enough to get a player to "Alertin' Level".
One minor niggle is that co seems to have already tried to ape street justice when the fist archetype came out, they added a few more attacks to the martial arts set, the knee attack, elbow strike, palm heel move, even the new energy builder that i use instead of martial arts' original spazzy one, though it does kind of look like your character is doing some sort of cardio workout rather than throwing punches....unfortunately animation wise i have to say that sj was better, in fact the knee move is one i often use to highlight why co's animations often bugged me, as it was too fast and lacked sj's feeling of momentum.
that said, I am always up for more martial arts animations, mmos tend to be limited because they cant have realistic grapple animations so akido, sambo,judo, jujutsu and even several moves from striking styles would be limited, but some boxing, capoeria, krav magah, muay thai, some of the more visually distinct kung-fu stules (mantis, 5 animals, drunken), or some really visually distinct street brawling. id pay money for that.
http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Shadowrun_setting
In the game my character is a leader of a Koborokuru (japanese) dwarf biker gang called "The Red Oni" they are rivals to the Wakyambi (african) Elf gang called the "Sun Gunners" in the city of Addersfield
The Nemesis system needs fixing and here's ideas:
A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Henry Ford
No thanks.
Kind of a needlessly hostile response, IMO. Maybe I'm just being sensitive.
Neither is Solomun Grundy, so what? Many villains have become primary nemesis for heroes that didn't start out with.
Cat Woman was retconned as having super powers years ago (possibly several times, this is DC after all). Unless that was changed with the new 52 (which I have not read any of). In any case, even if I'm wrong (which I might be, but I don't think so), its ultimately immaterial as one example of many that I provided.
And speaking of using the AU series as a source; it's kind of ironic you'd accuse me of that given that is exactly where Harley has her origins, and is, as far as I know, the only animated character that has worked its way into canon comic continuity... But anyway...
my point still stands. batman exists within a universe of powered and unpowered villains and is all the more interesting for it. Just my opinions, I didn't claim them to be anything else.
edit: ****ty movie? Assuming you mean Sharron Stone as Cat Woman? I've never even seen the Halle Barry version. I don't think she was even had powers in Batman Returns. I liked the movie when I saw it as a kid. *shrug*
And seriously, what was wrong with JLU? For a half hours kids cartoon it tried to stay pretty faithful to the source material it tried to re-envision.
my point about Watchmen is that very few series featuring unpowered heroes/villains have become popular. Watchmen is the exception, not the rule (and I do love watchmen, btw - movie and comic).
I would enjoy it as an expansion as suggested by others (I have a few thematically unpowered heroes in champs), but as a stand alone game? mehhhh.
New Zone: Hudson City.
Could make mobs in different areas for different levels ranging from 10-40.
Introduce a new powerset or two. Or one new set, then new powers for a few others. Expand upon unarmed in more boxer/streetfighter (rough punches not the fighting game) and add knife attacks and some more firearms/bow powers.
Add new Nemesis options (like personalities) and new nem missions to the overall story of the new expansion.
make it $30.00 (and worth the $30.00) you can have sales on it every once and a while too, like when the next expansion comes out. New Expansion! Get the old ones half off and get them all together, or something like that. Buy one, get half off.
Then further expansions could be bigger or smaller (price adjusting of course) and could be tied to actual stories from the PnP.
Future Arcs could include:
Destroyer's (real Destroyer) island (Destruga? I forget how to spell it.)
A city where Mechanon invaded and conquered. (this is the first one I would love to see, cause the fact Mechanon is not is the game should be a crime.)
A China Zone where we get to have those teams introduced. (Part of it should be set up like the Hi-Pan alert, cause that instance is beautiful!)
A space one where the Galactic lore can be introduced (adding Cosmic powers to the game.)
There is a lot more I could add, but I am putting up enough of a wall as it is, Sorry for the long post ^^
I assume the majority of the people playing CO regularly want to play superheroes, certainly the friends I have here do, otherwise they would devote more of their time to another game. What you describe is not a superhero game, since you hate future tech and magic. Thus the two main inspirations of this genre, DC and Marvel, plus most of the rest, would contain content you dislike. What you propose is another genre entirely, thus the content you want would prevent many people playing the hero they want whilst now you can still play the hero you want. Thus it is you who is in fact pushing people away from CO, as I can and do currently play a low tech street level heroes, but you want a zone where I couldn't play with my other toons.
Unlike you I own Dark Champions and believe me there is nothing in the rules to stop players creating the sort of concepts you hate. In fact my munitions toon iin the game is 300 years old and uses magically enchanted flintlocks. How else would he never have to reload after every shot
What you perceive Dark Champions to be is not in fact the case, although in a PnP game it could be, in CO it definitely wouldn't be unless Cryptic designed a separate game, not going to happen, or made a very restrictive zone for the few who want a non superpower game, again will not happen, as it will alienate the core players.
Nope, not if it meant many players would be alienated because they couldn't play their superpowered toons in the adventure pack. However, if they did a grittier, darker pack, which focuses on villains using non magical and current tech, whilst still allowing all players to play, then sure why not.
I hate future tech? Really? It's not like my main's a cyborg or anything.
http://primusdatabase.com/index.php?title=Armiger
You're not very good at this 'telling me what I like'. At no point did I say I 'hate' these games. At no point in my idea did I say you couldn't play your toons. If I'm 'pushing people away from CO' somehow with this, then you know... no. There are no words. Perhaps you should again read what I proposed first (entirely new game) and then later (comic pack). Then come back and try again without telling me what I like and don't like. if that is 'pushing someone away from CO', then they probably can't read good and probably don't need to internet.
I want chicken wings for lunch today. You would assume because of this that I hate pizza.
Oh, and it's not that I hate magic- I hate the way it's used to often without being quantified and as a cheap writing hook.
Did I say that? You use a lot of words and don't read others. That's a sign of narcissism you know.
I suggested 1- an entirely new game on its own, or 2- a comic/adventure pack.
Please read again before talking down your nose at me.
The problem is they kinda said we weren't getting a new zone. It's cool to hope, but I don't see it happening. Granted, I do like the idea and if I were to make a superhero or science fiction game- this is what I'd do, you'd have zones you could 'originate' in, and skip around them all if you wanted, or stay in one.
[Add new Nemesis options (like personalities) and new nem missions to the overall story of the new expansion.
This is why I think they should have never given their comic packs out for free... first of all, I'd paid for 2 of them. But this could have been something to monetize for years.
All of this I would be down for. Especially a space zone where my hover-tank would MAKE SENSE.
*offers beef jerky and whiskey-coffee*
It might be, but there's no tone in text, so that's kind of why what sounds like debate might seem jerkish (I am a jerk to someone else in this thread, shamelessly).
But he's still not set as a Batman villain. He's kind of a universal one, but he was originally a Teen Titans villain and stayed so for most of his years.
I'm not calling you a liar here, but I'm not sure this ever happened and I'm really curios to see if it did. In New 52, it doesn't do much with her that I've read.
Make it two characters- Mr. Freeze was on the TV show, then the cartoon explained his origin, and that made its way into comics canon.
Until recently. Now, you don't get to feel as bad for Freeze.
For me, it is the definitive version of DC.
Yes, I know about the various periods in the comics' history, cannon, the 1980s RPG, and so on. I just think that the DCAU version was done with the best writing, most coherent style, and coolest development of origins/powers/etc.
Well-meaning people may disagree.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
And yet in your opening post you said:
And:
You are clearly delusional if you think limiting powersets to low tech only and preventing people from selecting magic, superpowers or crazy tech to use your words wouldn't drive people away from the game. How exactly could I play all my toons in the new area, if your desire to restrict the power choices so much was implemented?
Bad analogy, because as I have shown above, you did say you don't like magic and crazy tech.
Quantified? What unit is used to measure magic? kilopotters?
I suggest you need help, as not only did you say that, see my earlier comment, but you have a reading and/or a memory issue as well. Maybe it is you who is being narcissistic by your own definition as you seem not to read all the words. I actually acknowledged your two suggestions and gave my reasons for not supporting them, together with a compromise.
I never once said 'I don't like those things'. You keep missing the point, or you're reading something that's not there.
Hang on, let me make a better analogy.
I would love a science fiction MMORPG that didn't revolve around spaceships.
I don't hate spaceships. I like space ships. They're cool. I would just like something that didn't revolve around them as well, because I already have Star Trek and Star Wars.
Is this too difficult to understand? I'm baffled.
You're also trying to mask insults here.
So, I'll say this- and it's very difficult for some players of this game to grasp, so hold it.
If I made my own game I would not be trying to accommodate every possible taste. If you don't like this, then it's perfectly fine for you to not play it. I'm okay with that.
However, nothing I've said is with the intention to 'drive people away from the game'. It was a hypothetical question about a hypothetical game. You are losing all credibility here with this 'reading things that aren't there'. As a matter of fact, if a simply 'alternative game' idea such as this is 'driving people away from CO', then I don't know how that'd be possible- and if it were, I'd say the game's following was weak and it was probably inevitable.
So, allow me to re-iterate for the slow.
1- I asked if a certain studio made an entirely new game, if people would play it.
2- I took Sills' idea and offered an entirely new zone without any power restrictions, based entirely on a specific setting.
No such thing has ever been said. Ever. As a matter of fact, I highly suggest you look at my VARIETY of recommendations for this game, items both modern and futuristic.
If you're 'proving' anything, please do not ever debate anything or become a lawyer.
Actually it's quite simple. Many actual writers have done it. Types of magic, materials needed for spells, actual 'mana' or some other form of magic 'fuel'. It's been done before, and perhaps if you were experienced as you claim to be you would be aware of this.
And as I have clearly pointed out, and yet you have either selectively ignored or fail to grasp the English language- or simply find yourself threatened by the idea of another, the things you have said? I did not say.
Go back, try again, or perhaps find an adult to help you. I'll be waiting for you to find the point where I, a player of a 'super tech' main character, said I hated supertech.
I'm looking at this, and it seems to be in line with something I'd play.
If I were to order this book, what other books would I need? In addition, what books would you recommend?
And don't say I need dice, please. I have an absurd amount in a Fallout 3 lunchbox. I'm not even kidding, I've got more dice than Vegas here. I had a friend who ran a game shop and when he shut it down he told me that dice don't sell as hot as you think... and a lot of people in the last decade or so just started using digital dice-rollers (there's even an iPhone app for various dice, apparently).
Too fiddly for my tastes--I much preferred the old Marvel RPG.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Despite the absurd amount of problems in the core rulebook, have you tried any of the D20 supplements?
I did play d20 Modern a bit, and I am a D&D player from the eaerly 1980s.
Trying Savage Worlds now.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
D20 Spectaculars. If you want to run it like my old group did, also get D20 future (for alien races/tech), D20 Future Tech (for hi-tech hero equipment), and D20 Cyberscape (because there's some crazy stuff in there).
D20 future is also sufficient if you just want 'mutant' type characters, and don't want Spectaculars.
Weapons Locker isn't a bad addition but for me using basic weapons and saying 'this is the stats for a 9mm' and not 'this is the stats for a Glock' was enough.
You can always use D&D books in addition and hijack the monsters and magical items if so inclined.
About the New Zone. I know they said we would most likely not be getting a new zone, but they also said they would be working on much of anything, unless there is money to be made.
If they attached the almighty $ to a new zone as part of an update, and the possibility of $ to be made, COULD mean they may try. It is a long shot, but this whole thread is full of "ifs" and "maybes" and "long shots."
If there could be money to be made, it helps the chances of getting it is all, and I can dream
I am not going to debate this endlessly, you stated very clearly your intent in your original post, again I quote:
'Gone would be the silliness. Gone would be the mysticism that permeates the game. Gone would be the impossible supertech. '
Now, if you didn't mean to imply that you disliked supertech and crazy tech to use your definitions, maybe you should have used a less inflammatory tone. It is not the fault of the reader if the poor writing skills leave the meaning ambiguous. For the sake of further argument lets assume you do like tech after all, even if you do want it removed from the new game and/or area.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, since you resorted to insults I deliberately flamed you. No masking intended.
Just for the record, repeating yourself by changing your wording doesn't strengthen your argument. It should be clear to even you by now, that I understood your points, but I don't agree with them. Pretending I don't understand because I don't agree with you is the ploy of a desperate person who knows he has no valid argument. Sill's idea was no capes, so this would still restrict superpower choices. If, as you claim above there wouldn't be any power restrictions, how exactly would this area stop all the toons you don't want entering? Wasn't the whole point of your OP that you wanted a low tech, non magic and no supertech environment? If you have now backtracked, how is this meaningfully different to my compromise suggestion?
I never said your question would drive players away as you well know, I said that if they did follow your suggestion of a non superpowered zone then it would, as most players here don't want that. A darker theme maybe, but not at the expense of having to make toons that fit your incredibly narrow definition of a hero. This is why the majority of people on this thread do not like your proposal.
We already have a way of measuring magic in the game, its called energy, the same as for every powerset. What the source of energy is up to the toons creator. If you think calling it mana would improve the game somehow, then although I think you are delusional, I won't object if they rename energy to something else for each powerset. However, what I suspect you mean is qualify NOT quantify, as there is some merit in that, even though it should be up to the individual again to define his source of power. In early PnP Champions, all superpowers derived from magic, even high tech. This was later retconned because players disliked being so restricted. What you suggest in removing superpowers is even more so.
...I think that Dark Champs might be best if the starting area (let's use Hudson City, since that seems to be the default - Dark Champs postdates my knowledge of the PnP game) were accessible only to toons created under its more restrictive powersets and stat levels. On the other tentacle, I'd like it if those toons could also venture out into the four-color world I prefer, and match themselves against the likes of Destroyer's minions and the renegade Lemurians. Then there could be a parallel game for those who dislike the capes, where they could run around in gritty street-level adventures and not get involved in over-the-top world-saving; and there would also be an option for someone who was curious about it to take their street avenger up against a superhuman threat, just to see how they'd do.
I don't want to allow the capes into the Dark zone(s) for the same reason Superman doesn't just go clean up Gotham - the capes would overpower the street avengers to a truly ludicrous degree, and no one likes being made to feel like a second banana in their own story.
As I said, having this limited form of crossover access may not even be possible, but if it were, this would be my preferred method of implementation for a hypothetical Dark Champions expansion.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I'm not dissecting this.
Cervando, you can flame all you want. I'm sorry that I am interested in a possible game that does not cater to your distinct taste. I'm sorry that you see wanting to omit something from a setting is 'inflammatory'. I don't see how you feel 'cheated' here. I don't see how 'not putting something in' is 'removing' it. This is simple third grade language and vocabulary.
Game and setting were two different ideas, sorry you missed that.
If you're looking for something to get buttmad over, I highly advise you to go elsewhere. I will not be tailoring this thread to appease your personal tastes, and you are apparently reading words that are not in my statements. I am sorry you are 'inflamed', but rest assured that your behavior has assured me that a game like this would keep people like you out, and that's an amazing game feature in itself.
This is probably the closest to how I feel about this idea, though personally, I'd probably try it just because I'm weird like that lol. That and I already play my solider AT with this concept in mind. In any case as a separate game, this is a very good idea. I can imagine the pvp would be easier to balance as well and it would probably bring in its fair share of fans. As a modification of CO, I would hate it and leave within a day, as would a lot of people who are fans of silliness, impossible supertech, the mysticism that permeates the game. But I digress.
As a separate game it works well. I do wonder if this can be made into a separate zone within the game. That too would work but the logistics of such a thing are beyond me. Possibly a separate game with linked banks and such but even then, that may hurt the concept. It would have been nice if the quests in this game were chained in a manner that suited certain types of archetypes (the street vigilante vs. the anti-hero vs. the high-powered caped superhero). I feel the idea of archetypes and playstyles is something most games in general don't emphasize enough. I feel as if tailoring quest chains to this would allow most people to really get what they want out of their experience while encouraging them to try different things, but that's another discussion for another time I guess.
In any case, a separate game would work really well. Of course, I don't know if Cryptic could even implement such a thing at this time. And if they could, I would wonder where my Villains Online game is. :biggrin:
ROFL, I love the way you attempt to take the moral high ground. It was you who started flaming, don't complain if you give and then receive. Furthermore, sarcasm is only witty when it's funny, you weren't, so don't pretend to be sorry when you aren't. As to third grade education, unlike you I paid attention. When something already exists in the game, ie superpowers and then you introduce a new area where they are not available, you have indeed removed them. Equally when they exist in Dark Champions and you base a game on that franchise without superpowers, you still have removed them. You are arguing semantics.
Repeating I don't realize you are discussing both a new game and a separate area to the existing one doesn't make you right, it merely shows you either have a reading or comprehension problem, as I have addressed this before.
When did I say was buttmad or inflamed? I said you used inflammatory words, it doesn't mean that I was inflamed, just that it could inflame certain readers. As to your game I am sure it would keep most people out, judging by the enthusiasm shown in your thread for your 'game'. I suggest rather than an MMORPG, it be dubbed a SPORPG instead
Now lets analyze your 2 concepts in more detail:
1. A separate game based on Dark Champions.
Now, lets pretend that DC doesn't have any superpowers, magic or crazytech like you want, even though it does. Financially it would make little sense to launch this game as the superhero genre is niche enough already, without further marginalizing it. However if Cryptic think otherwise and want to launch it, then let them. I predict a financial disaster, but time will tell.
2. A separate area based on Dark Champions within CO.
Assuming the same faulty premise as before, the reason I like this idea even less is because in a game that lacks content, you are suggesting adding some that prevents players entering with some or even all of their toons. This is assuming you stand by your support of Jonsil's concept. I am not sure where Cryptic would stand legally, if players complained about archetypes they had bought being unavailable to play in this new area either. Similarly for subscribers and LTS players.
To achieve what you suggest would require a huge reduction in what is available at the tailor, with further legal ramifications for costumes bought through the zen store at the very least. Unless you were prepared to put up with whimsical, demonic, crazytech and magical looking toons invading your area. Also a major re-write of the powers would be required to fit Dark Champions, such as actual ammunition being used up instead of energy builders. New passives would be needed, because those such as quarry would make no sense in your concept. The amount of work required would not justify the result, when those resources could be used to bring out content that would be available for everyone.
However, if you did allow all powers and all costumes, how does this differ from my proposal of a new area of CO which had a grittier more street level atmosphere but still allowed access to any type of concept?
Cervando's not a bad guy at all. Looking back at the argument that ensued between the two of you, perhaps you can see why it might look like you got a bit "buttmad" yourself.
I welcome the discussion of Dark Champions, but some of your comments here are not really helping this thread.
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And here you go.
No, these are not semantics. I recommended 2 things:
1- And entirely new game. By Cryptic. You howled that something had been taken away, when in fact, it was not a factor in the original idea.
2- An entirely new alternate leveling zone, or rather a 'large comic pack'. Nothing was recommended to be omitted.
I'm not particularly taking the moral high ground, I'm simply avoiding a battle of wits with an unarmed adversary.
If referencing the theme of CO is 'silly', perhaps again- as I said, you should probably re-evaluate yourself or seek therapy. Fictional things and criticism of those things should not be considered 'inflammatory'. The only thing 'inflamed' is you, and as I said- I think you should stop being so 'offended' by another human's opinion. Well-adjusted adults do not do this.
Now lets analyze your 2 concepts in more detail:
This is a fair opinion, and I cannot discredit it. However, with proper execution, even a 'limited' idea like this can be successful.
Sills suggested something somewhat different than I. I simply suggested an entire 'Comic/Adventure pack' as an alternate leveling area that could be monetized.
You claim to have 'paid attention' in third grade, and if your comprehension is at this level I weep for the failed education system.
Not what I suggested. Again, please re-read.
It doesn't. I suggest, once more, you go back and re-read what I responded to Sills. If there is any confusion, please let me know.
I actually defended my stance on my idea, which I'm allowed to do. I can understand why in the world of some folks, this may be 'offensive' when someone disagrees. However, not in the world in which I reside.
I personally don't care if he just cured AIDS in his basement with gummy worms and gas station coffee.
I have attempted to redirect it, but your precious pal there insists on coming back and digging. I suggest you read his posts.
I fully and wholly welcome his dislike of the idea. I do not, however, like what I've suggested to be misinterpreted. Nor do I like being insulted by someone who thinks they are being clever. He isn't, he's talked down his nose to me since he spewed into this discussion with the attitude of a spoiled manchild.
Next time, you may want to read everything before you jump into the middle of a discussion and throw baseless/half-informed claims around.