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Lightning Reflexes build demo
selphea
Posts: 1,229 Arc User
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfpi8IFpkoA
The last video on YouTube showing LR in PvE was 2 years old so I made a new one because it seems to be a very misunderstood passive.
For one, it's not really RNG-based, there are ways to hit 100% dodge which have been discussed on the forums, but I think it hasn't really been shown - especially how it works out in practice.
For another, it's really strong defensively but has its weaknesses. It's really low damage if you want to upkeep 100% dodge - moreso than Defiance or Invul, which at least allow you to use high damage attacks e.g. Fire Snake + Devour Essence.
Anyway, the video shows everything
The last video on YouTube showing LR in PvE was 2 years old so I made a new one because it seems to be a very misunderstood passive.
For one, it's not really RNG-based, there are ways to hit 100% dodge which have been discussed on the forums, but I think it hasn't really been shown - especially how it works out in practice.
For another, it's really strong defensively but has its weaknesses. It's really low damage if you want to upkeep 100% dodge - moreso than Defiance or Invul, which at least allow you to use high damage attacks e.g. Fire Snake + Devour Essence.
Anyway, the video shows everything
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I think it's also a bit damning you're managing to do this without Fluidity. That block really is the worst.
I didn't bother with CC because I figured DPS would be too low to compete in threat with the DE, Glacier, Haymaker or other high DPS or high Heal tanks. With EM there's a lot of downtime where I try to maintain dodge and do 0 damage. I designed the character more as a super soloist instead because of that, which comes back to the point that it's a really great survivability passive, but for tanking it may not actually be the best because of low damage
And yes, Fluidity is pretty bad >_> I'd rather use Parry + TEM but first problem, damage loss, and second problem, the dodge% gain isn't enough for me to hit 100% without EM.
Getting good DPS with 100% dodge LR builds is very tricky but possible.
My solution was to use Thundering Kicks and Parry with CON PSS w/dodge spec and a Legion BP of Elusiveness with 2 Gambler's Luck. So not using Evasive Maneuvers already gets some DPS back and it doesn't risk Elusive Monk timing out when back flipping.
The key to recover DPS is the spec tree Brawler/Vindicator using Setup for a 20% bonus. As luck would have it, Thundering Kicks is a Combo. I added Viper Fangs and Dragon's Claws to up the DPS more. Usual attack sequence is TK combo, 2 DC, VF combo, 2 DC and repeat. This can work since at 100% Dodge, you really don't need a lot of defense. In fact, unless I think it's a hold or yellow bubble from Gravitar I never even block so I don't risk Elusive Monk timing out. For the same reason, when I get knocked I activate Masterful Dodge before jumping back in.
Gonna retcon this toon further to solo Mega-D Terminators! :biggrin:
Thanks! Although it's really based on old tech from that old Mega-D thread xD I'm still thinking through how to really adapt Kitty's build to the new Dodge system - really want to make it possible with WotW instead of LR.
It sounds like the build you're using will need a pretty high budget though, I'm guessing at least 350 Dex? Probably all Dex mods and Gambler's used are R7?
As stupid as it may sound, I'd rather not take EM for melee dodge builds and deal w/ some amount of RNG that I still have to react to- even if its sub-optimal for a tank to do so.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Yes very expenisive. I took 2 r9 gamblers so i could skip Flippin and have like 544 dex. Nice w 84% avoidance tho
Yeah I'm liking LR now for F&I that I've built around it better (w/ a decent amount of health and 10x VD stacked up). Is nice to see ice daggers for 300-400 pretty frequently when block+dodge kicks in.
Mine isn't a 100% dodge build, but VD and cds can usually cover the rest.
Now to make some of my other tanks better on that fight.. prob gonna take quite some work and I doubt they can top that. Regen + some dodge and VD may have some potential.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Doesn't seem to work on Cosmics and above http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=212001
I thought some of you would like to see the build:
PowerHouse (Link to this build)
Name: Downshift
Archetype: Freeform
Super Stats:
Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Strength (Secondary)
Talents:
Level 1: The Master
Level 6: Martial Focus
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Acrobat
Level 15: Covert Ops Training
Level 18: Survival Training
Level 21: Agile
Powers:
Level 1: Righteous Fists
Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Lightning Reflexes (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 11: Form of the Tempest
Level 14: Viper's Fangs (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Dragon's Claws (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
Level 23: One Hundred Hands (Rank 2, Rank 3, Ghostly Strikes)
Level 26: Void Shift (Crippling Challenge)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Lock N Load
Level 35: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Intensity
Travel Powers:
Level 6: Lightspeed (Rank 2)
Level 35: Lightning Flash (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Specializations:
Constitution: Unyielding (2/2)
Constitution: Fuel My Fire (1/3)
Constitution: Resilient (2/2)
Constitution: Deflection (3/3)
Constitution: Adrenaline Rush (2/2)
Brawler: No Escape (1/3)
Brawler: Penetrating Strikes (2/2)
Brawler: Ruthless (2/2)
Brawler: Finishing Blow (3/3)
Brawler: Setup (2/2)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: Upper Hand (3/3)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)
It's the dodge bonuses from Elusive Monk and R3 Thundering Kicks that puts you consistently around max dodge. I did something a bit different here and ditched Vindicator (I know, unthinkable!) and replaced it with Warden. Without much Offense to speak of, Aggressive Stance wasn't going to do me much good. I'd get a bit more crit severity, but Warden has a lot going for it in 9% more crit chance on combos (which you do a LOT of in this build) and 6% more damage from every attack you make to Shredded targets, and your primary target will be Shredded all the time. Warden mastery is also pretty great with all the combos I'm throwing around. It's fun dipping into some spec trees I normally overlook.
You still take 16% damage from attacks, so you need to keep up on your heals. I use R1 BCR/RR and R3 Conviction. I try to avoid Conviction if I can because it eats up a lot of energy and throws off my attack chain, which is the same as Monsterdaddy's: TK combo > 2 DC > VF combo > 2 DC. 100 Hands is just for thematic purposes and for an AoE.
Gear is Heroic Gloves of Piercing with R7 Impact Gem (I'd probably swap with a Depleted Uranium Core if I had an extra), Legion's BP of Elusiveness with 2 R7 Gambler's Gems, and whatever you want in Utility. R7 or R8 DEX mods all the way.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Would Flippin' also get you over 100%? Though it may not match character conception.
Flippin' would absolutely put me over 100% dodge, but yeah...it's a concept thing. I can live with being at 99.4% until I can close the gap with better gear.
One thing I'm not completely satisfied with from a conceptual point of view is the need to use Fighting Claw attacks rather than fists. I tried using Dragon Uppercut but the DPS suffers terribly. Going Unarmed would let you drop Viper's Fangs though, and give you room for a fluff power Gradii. You'd lose some DPS but it might be worth it to flesh out your concept more or add in a little extra versatility.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
What about building around 100-hands? Would adding BCF make it competitive for DPS? I guess the other thing about Unarmed is the amount of crushing debuffs there are.
To make 100 Hands work you'd want to get Emerging Nightmares on Void Shift to apply Fear, and get Spirit Reverberation to help with energy. You still need Dragon Uppercut, probably best with Chi Flame for more Dimensional Damage, and BCF with Fists of Righteous Flame to proc on 100 Hands.
Here's a build I put together around it. Since we'd be relying on 100 Hands rather than a powerful single target attack, there's no reason to keep the Brawler tree, so I switched it out for a Wardicator spec and put the crit chance bonus on AoEs. I put Two Smoking Barrels on Lock n' Load, which seems counter-intuitive since all we've got are melee attacks, but once you play around with this type of build you learn fast that if you're held you're dead, so escaping out of status effects is way more important than a temporary damage boost. With only one AO, it's important it's up as often as possible, and 100 Hands should have it recharged fast.
It's not a bad setup at all really, but I think I dropped from around 3k DPS to around 2.5k. If you could work out a way to get Demolish in there, even as a tap it'd help, but then you'd have three single target attacks, all of which exist almost solely to make 100 Hands viable as a primary source of damage output.
PowerHouse (Link to this build)
Name:
Archetype: Freeform
Super Stats:
Level 6: Constitution (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Strength (Secondary)
Talents:
Level 1:
Level 6:
Level 9:
Level 12:
Level 15:
Level 18:
Level 21:
Powers:
Level 1: Righteous Fists
Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Lightning Reflexes (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
Level 11: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 14: Dragon Uppercut (Rank 2, Chi Flame)
Level 17: Burning Chi Fist (Rank 2, Fists of Righteous Flame)
Level 20: One Hundred Hands (Rank 2, Rank 3, Ghostly Strikes)
Level 23: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares)
Level 26: Spirit Reverberation
Level 29: Lock N Load (Two Smoking Barrels)
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Form of the Tempest
Travel Powers:
Level 6: Lightspeed (Rank 2)
Level 35: Lightning Flash (Rank 2)
Specializations:
Constitution: Unyielding (2/2)
Constitution: Fuel My Fire (1/3)
Constitution: Resilient (2/2)
Constitution: Deflection (3/3)
Constitution: Adrenaline Rush (2/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Thanks for sharing that setup. It was insightful, particularly about Two Smoking Barrels on a melee build.
Also disappointing. I'd had higher hopes for the Righteous Flame buff, what with 100-hands hitting 4 times a second. Then since you're not relying on Dragon Uppercut for its DPS you could maybe replace it with Dragon Kick for the utility. Given how 100-hands doubles as an AoE power, it would make for a flexible build if only the damage lined up.
It's a pretty rare build in CO where there are too few slots to realize a build...almost always there are a couple "fluff" powers at the end. But with this build you could just lard on the powers...Ebon Ruin for the dimensional debuff, Demolish for the physical one, another AO, etc.
I guess what that's really saying is that a dedicated 100-hands build needs a passive that requires fewer slots than LR, which is a shame thematically, because both fit the speedster image.
Alternatively, you could experiment with Demolish and Rising Knee/Flowing Strikes, in which case you'd still ditch Brawler for Wardicator. That would probably make Demolish your main single target attack though, which is kind of slow but an effective rotation might be TK combo > Rising Knee > 2 Demolish. Could still throw BCF into the mix and just use Demolish for the debuff, which would look like R3 Demolish (so you can just tap it) > TK combo > Rising Knee > 2 BCF...but again that's a lot of powers just to make an Unarmed concept even come close to competing with the DPS of a Fighting Claws build.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I mean, technically you can build an Unarmed dps build out of just Dragon Uppercut for single targets (which does get a small 10% knock immune bonus on full charge)- it would not be optimal ofc, but its def viable.
The problem is that slashing dmg trees like fighting claws have access to Shredded as a debuff on top of all the others, which is really powerful when combo'd w/ Dragon Claw's severity boost (as well as the option to use Tiger's Bite). To fully flesh out crushing dmg, you need Demolish full-charge w/ BttB, which isn't MA, and isn't as easy to afford on every build since its not a Rush-granting ability and doesn't knock or bleed.
I did have a Unarmed/Might brawler for a while that used a RK/FS -> Demo/BttB -> DU, RK/FS -> DUx2 (repeat till Demolish drops) rotation, and it was actually quite good dps. Counting things like that and rotations using BCF and/or 100Hands, there are a good number of ways to build a decent Unarmed dps. None of them will be top-dogs in dmg, but considering just how far-out some of those 'top-dogs' are, that's not really a big fault w/ Unarmed as it is w/ general game balance (at least imo).
I mean, to me its better than being pigeon-holed into primarily one move for dps, like Might is
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Ah that sucks.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Every once in a while, a thread like this comes along and reminds me what a n00b I still am.
A couple questions:
1) What are those secondary upgrades? I don't recognize them.
2) Why CON as primary super-stat? I'm guessing it's for the extra health, the fact that the +Dodge specalization in the CON tree works literally twice as well as the one in the DEX tree, and the resistance to holds and knocks. Did I miss anything else?
Those secs look like normal purple ones you get as drops, likely to maximize Dex as Vigi would bump Con instead
Right. Primary CON is for the higher dodge bonus from DEX, and for the slight resistance to holds and stuff. Even with primary CON, CON still isn't very high so you don't get a ton of benefit there, and you'll have to skip a lot of the best parts of it to get the dodge bonus.
For the secondaries, you can't really get the Vigilante gear because you need to boost your DEX, so try to go for the highest DEX bumps you can get.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
This thread inspired me to replace Evasive Maneuvers with Thundering Kicks on my Night Warrior. So far, it's working out well. Same dodge bonus, and I'm spending the time inflicting damage and gaining Focus stacks and Elusive Monk bonuses, instead of lunging back into melee or running back into boomerang range.
My gut instinct for a speedster build is to super-stat INT and grab Nanobot Swarm, since fast recharge seems thematically appropriate. But I understand why you wouldn't be able to free up enough stat mods to make INT worthwhile in a build like this.
Am I correct in assuming that the Super-STR is for the knock resistance?
Am I correct in assuming that Intensity is there because MOAR DEX = SUCH DODGE?
Which layer is the damage bonus from Upper Hand factored into? It doesn't look worth it to me at first glance. Are looks deceiving?
Why rank the teleport power higher than the speed?
I didn't realize that resistance reduction was so important for high overall damage. I thought it was effectively the same as an additive damage buff. Did I misunderstand the math?
That and for the melee damage bonus.You could probably swap it for something else.
Basically, but I've found it doesn't really make much difference. My preference now is to drop it and to put Two Smoking Barrels on Lock n' Load so it's up more often. That opens up a power slot for something else.
I don't actually know to be honest. I just went with it because it seemed better than the other options.
Purely personal preference. I don't like the overwhelming look of R3 Lightspeed and actually find it difficult to control because it's always flying off inclines. When he really wants to pour on the speed, he just disappears and reappears somewhere else.
I'm not the best person to explain the math, but against heavy targets like the bosses in Rampages, I've found damage reduction to make a big difference in my overall DPS (as tested on the supervillain dummies in the Powerhouse).
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
You can try using my gear comparison spreadsheet to see the impact of a DU core. It's not so much that Def Pen is good, but 15% Def Pen from a DU core vs 2% Crit Chance from another Gambler's or 1% from Offense from an Impact Prism is just no contest.
That's DEX mods and DEX gear, with little worry on other super stats. I've done the same with a REC/INT/EGO build...all INT mods.
EDIT: Nevermind, Rush buff, duh. Dang, that doesn't work for me.
The Rush buff works pretty great for energy management once you build up your focus stacks. I've replaced some of my REC I was getting from a secondary utility item with more DEX, but thinking I might go back so I can start the fight with a bit more energy. It's only at the very start of the fight that it's an issue though.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
Thanks. I 'll give a go this weekend